It is very common to hear believers in God assert that God cannot change. Even God himself purportedly affirms in Malachi 3:6, " For I am the Lord, I change not..." Several verses of scripture allude to this same claim. For example, Numbers 23:19 says:
"God is not a man, that he should lie;
neither the son of man, that he should
repent: hath he said, and shall he not do
it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not
make it good?"
But the same scriptures give us accounts of God doing exactly what it says he cannot do:

Genesis 6:6
"And it repented the LORD that he had made
man on the earth, and it grieved him at his
heart."

More:
And the LORD repented of the evil which he
thought to do unto his people. (Exodus 32:14 )

And when the angel stretched out his hand upon
Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshing place of Araunah the Jebusite. ( 2 Samuel 24:16 )

And God saw their works, that they turned from
their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that
he had said that he would do unto them; and he
did it not. ( Jonah 3:10 )

These verses show God changing his mind and sometimes feeling sorry just like a human being. Sometimes like in the case in Exodus, it took human intervention to change the Almighty's mind.

In the NT, we see God changing from a vicious, angry, blood thirsty, petty despot, who had no qualms sanctioning the killing and rape of kids and women, to a loving father who loved the world so much, he killed his son/himself for it.

Also, this same God who was so ever active in the Bible, dividing seas, causing a worldwide deluge, raining down fire and brimstone on homosexuals, turning a lady to salt, instructing a father to sacrifice his son, sending down fire in a competition of the gods, making a donkey talk, doing genetics with Jacob, raising dead people, killing even more people, etc., has suddenly become so passive and hidden in today's world. He doesn't meddle in our affairs anymore, even though we now have more issues. What can this sudden transformation be termed if not change?
Whenever God's ugly past in the OT is brought
to the fore, Christians are quick to remind you that, that he did those things in the OT and we're in the NT and yet they say he doesn't change. Why does an immutable God need an OT and NT? And are these Christians not indirectly making a case against God's immutability by explaining that he only did those ugly stuff in the OT and can't do such in the NT? Because immutability will sure mean God can still today sanction the killing of children and women, and entire genocidal campaigns like he did in the OT.

Looking at all these, isn't it clear that God can and has changed? Or is there some other Christian esoteric definition of change? What do Christians mean when they say God cannot change?

The essence of his character/being is the same yesterday, today and forever.

But!

HE does change his modus operandi OR method of operation. It is evident through ages.

Prime example: It is true G-d is love and powerful. But, how HE decides to manifest his LOVE and power changes from person to person, generation to generation, situation to situation.

Hope that sheds a bit of light.

Xiadnat:
The essence of his character/being is the same yesterday, today and forever.

But!

HE does change his modus operandi OR method of operation. It is evident through ages.

Prime example: It is true G-d is love and powerful. But, how HE decides to manifest his LOVE and power changes from person to person, generation to generation, situation to situation.

Hope that sheds a bit of light.

Did your "god" ever regret or feel remorseful in its alleged creation of "man"?...

Xiadnat:
The essence of his character/being is the same yesterday, today and forever.

But!

HE does change his modus operandi OR method of operation. It is evident through ages.

Prime example: It is true G-d is love and powerful. But, how HE decides to manifest his LOVE and power changes from person to person, generation to generation, situation to situation.

Hope that sheds a bit of light.

Doesn't a change in modus operandi connote a change in this essence you speak of? Moreover, since God is omniscient, why does he need to change his modus operandi? Omniscience should have made him begin with the perfect mode of operation that needs no changing. And how do you explain the fact that he felt regretful that he created man and also after the flood, even though the same Bible says he cannot?

McSterling:
Doesn't a change in modus operandi connote a change in this essence you speak of? Moreover, since God is omniscient, why does he need to change his modus operandi? Omniscience should have made him begin with the perfect mode of operation that needs no changing. And how do you explain the fact that he felt regretful that he created man and also after the flood, even though the same Bible says he cannot?

His perfection is in his characters, not in how he displays them.

Where does it say G-d regretted creating man?

Xiadnat:



His perfection is in his characters, not in how he displays them.

Where does it say G-d regretted creating man?

Genesis 6:6

New International Version
The LORD regretted that he had made human
beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply
troubled.

New Living Translation
So the LORD was sorry he had ever made
them and put them on the earth. It broke his
heart.

English Standard Version
And the LORD regretted that he had made
man on the earth, and it grieved him to his
heart.

New American Standard Bible
The LORD was sorry that He had made man
on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

King James Bible
And it repented the LORD that he had made
man on the earth, and it grieved him at his
heart.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
the LORD regretted that He had made man on
the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

International Standard Version
Then the LORD regretted that he had made
human beings on the earth, and he was
deeply grieved about that.

NET Bible
The LORD regretted that he had made
humankind on the earth, and he was highly
offended.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The LORD was sorry that he had made
humans on the earth, and he was
heartbroken.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And the LORD repented of having made man
on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

King James 2000 Bible
And the LORD was sorry that he had made
man on the earth, and it grieved him to his
heart.

American King James Version
And it repented the LORD that he had made
man on the earth, and it grieved him at his
heart.

American Standard Version
And it repented Jehovah that he had made
man on the earth, and it grieved him at his
heart.

Xiadnat:
The essence of his character/being is the same yesterday, today and forever.

But!

HE does change his modus operandi OR method of operation. It is evident through ages.

Prime example: It is true G-d is love and powerful. But, how HE decides to manifest his LOVE and power changes from person to person, generation to generation, situation to situation.

Hope that sheds a bit of light.

Good explanation. I support it. Good question by the OP too.

Can God change?

Well, this is a very good question but, before i proceed to contribute, i must advice you to chose your words whenever you are discussing God. Calling God despot, blood thirsty, killer, and all that ugly statements, its not advisable dear brother. For we must not lean unto our own understanding in trying to decode whom or how God is, but by His own revealed word and ways of doing things.

God does not take pleasure in killing, neither is He delighted in the death of the wicked; Ezek.18 vs 23. And thats why He came to create an avenue for them to be saved; Luke 19vs10.
But all that refuses to keep the path of good and His commandment must reap what they sowed (Psalm 37.1-2, Deut.7vs9-11, 8vs19-20.)

Now, when we talked about God's immutability, as eshrined in Malachi 3vs 6, we are talking about God's unbias and steadfastness regarding His promises and convenants. That is, God had always, and will always keep His side of a convenant and His promises are for ever sure. A convenant is a contract, and a contract, whether explicit or implicit, is an agreement/obligation binding on the parties to it, of which the right to enforce, rescind or claim damages that may arise from breach of the contract, is based solely on the PERFORMANCE or Non PERFORMANCE of the TERMS of that contract.

Thus, when we say that God changed His mind as it relates to a promise or convenant, its nothing but a fulfilling of the rules governing the convenant or promise. For instance, the commandments were given, but when the Isrealites turned to worship gods, God was no longer oblige to protect them. For they weren't keeping their side of the convenant.
Otherwise, God does not change His mind--not in an eternal sense. Therefore, when we see verses in the Bible that imply He does--in a human sense, like Matt said, We have to understand that God has revealed Himself to us in what we call ''anthropomorphic revelation''. This means that He has lowered Himself to our level and speaks to us in a manner that is consistent with our understanding.
Consider how God walked with Adam and Eve in the garden. God, who is the infinite being, who encompasses the entire universe, became like us so that we could communicate with Him.
After Adam and Eve sinned in the garden and hid themselves, God said, “Adam, where are you?” ( Gen. 3:9). Should we conclude that God who knows everything didn’t know where Adam was? Of course not. He was asking not just about Adam’s location but also about his spiritual condition. This illustrates that at the very beginning of God’s communication with us, He spoke in a manner that relates to us in our time frame--from our perspective. That is why God, in the Garden, went looking for Adam--because He was working from our perspective.
We know that God has, from all eternity, ordained whatsoever shall come to pass because He works all things after the counsel of His will ( Ephesians 1:11). However, when He deals with us, we see verses that say he changes His mind. Let’s take a look.

*."So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people," ( Exodus 32:14).
*.“Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him to death? Did he not fear the Lord and entreat the favor of the Lord, and the Lord changed His mind about the misfortune which He had pronounced against them? But we are committing a great evil against ourselves," ( Jeremiah 26:19).
The fact is that God knows all things ( 1 John 3:20), and He has known it all forever. To say that God would actually change His mind would imply that God, who is supposed to have known all things forever, decided to act in a manner that was different from what He has always known He would do. He would have known that He was going to change His mind, which means He isn’t changing His mind because He knew He was going to do it. So, how is He really changing His mind if He decided to do something all along that only appears (to us) that He changed His mind?
Consider how God would sometimes pronounce judgment on nations, saying He was going to destroy them; and sometimes those nations would repent. God then relented from judging them. In other words, He changed his mind and didn’t judge them even though He said he would. Are we to say that God didn’t know from all eternity that they would repent? Of course He knew. How do we know that He didn’t say He would destroy them to get them to repent, which was all according to His plan? Furthermore, God holding back his judgment is consistent with what He already said elsewhere:

“If that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it,” ( Jer. 18:.

So, what we’re seeing is God changing His mind from our perspective, but from the eternal perspective He never did. He’s not surprised by our choices, and He does not have to adapt to our mistakes or our plans. He works all things after the counsel of His will, and He does so eternally.

Xiadnat:



His perfection is in his characters, not in how he displays them.

Did you reread what you wrote? How can his character be expressed without being displayed?

The god as expressed in the Bible is imperfect just like any human being. He is so far from "omni-anything".

@ McSterling I wouldn't be surprised if an updated version of the Bible claims god falls sick.

theAtheist101:


Did you reread what you wrote? How can his character be expressed without being displayed?

The god as expressed in the Bible is imperfect just like any human being. He is so far from "omni-anything".

@ McSterling I wouldn't be surprised if an updated version of the Bible claims god falls sick.

It just goes to show that this god is a creation of man. I can imagine the quandaries the Bible writers put themselves through: They wanted a god with superhuman omni omni abilities, yet the bankruptcy of their imagination couldn't stop them from infusing him with human characteristics.

Appleyard:
Can God change?

Well, this is a very good question but, before i proceed to contribute, i must advice you to chose your words whenever you are discussing God. Calling God despot, blood thirsty, killer, and all that ugly statements, its not advisable dear brother. For we must not lean unto our own understanding in trying to decode whom or how God is, but by His own revealed word and ways of doing things

Well, isn't it obvious that I am not a believer? I only sincerely stated how I feel.

God does not take pleasure in killing, neither is He delighted in the death of the wicked; Ezek.18 vs 23. And thats why He came to create an avenue for them to be saved; Luke 19vs10.
But all that refuses to keep the path of good and His commandment must reap what they sowed (Psalm 37.1-2, Deut.7vs9-11, 8vs19-20.)

The Bible certainly makes it seem like he delights in killing. Take for example the command to stone offenders to death, even your own blood relation, without any chance for repentance. Not to forget the pogrom campaigns sanctioned by God. On one occasion, Meek Moses had this to say:

"Now therefore kill every male among
the little ones, and kill every woman that
hath known man by lying with him.
But all the women children, that have
not known a man by lying with him, keep
alive for yourselves."(Numbers 31:17-18)

And God said somewhere, "I will laugh at their calamity..."

Now, when we talked about God's immutability, as eshrined in Malachi 3vs 6, we are talking about God's unbias and steadfastness regarding His promises and convenants. That is, God had always, and will always keep His side of a convenant and His promises are for ever sure. A convenant is a contract, and a contract, whether explicit or implicit, is an agreement/obligation binding on the parties to it, of which the right to enforce, rescind or claim damages that may arise from breach of the contract, is based solely on the PERFORMANCE or Non PERFORMANCE of the TERMS of that contract.

Thus, when we say that God changed His mind as it relates to a promise or convenant, its nothing but a fulfilling of the rules governing the convenant or promise. For instance, the commandments were given, but when the Isrealites turned to worship gods, God was no longer oblige to protect them. For they weren't keeping their side of the convenant.
Otherwise, God does not change His mind--not in an eternal sense. Therefore, when we see verses in the Bible that imply He does--in a human sense, like Matt said, We have to understand that God has revealed Himself to us in what we call ''anthropomorphic revelation''. This means that He has lowered Himself to our level and speaks to us in a manner that is consistent with our understanding.
Consider how God walked with Adam and Eve in the garden. God, who is the infinite being, who encompasses the entire universe, became like us so that we could communicate with Him.
After Adam and Eve sinned in the garden and hid themselves, God said, “Adam, where are you?” ( Gen. 3:9). Should we conclude that God who knows everything didn’t know where Adam was? Of course not. He was asking not just about Adam’s location but also about his spiritual condition. This illustrates that at the very beginning of God’s communication with us, He spoke in a manner that relates to us in our time frame--from our perspective. That is why God, in the Garden, went looking for Adam--because He was working from our perspective.
We know that God has, from all eternity, ordained whatsoever shall come to pass because He works all things after the counsel of His will ( Ephesians 1:11). However, when He deals with us, we see verses that say he changes His mind. Let’s take a look.

*."So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people," ( Exodus 32:14).
*.“Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him to death? Did he not fear the Lord and entreat the favor of the Lord, and the Lord changed His mind about the misfortune which He had pronounced against them? But we are committing a great evil against ourselves," ( Jeremiah 26:19).
The fact is that God knows all things ( 1 John 3:20), and He has known it all forever. To say that God would actually change His mind would imply that God, who is supposed to have known all things forever, decided to act in a manner that was different from what He has always known He would do. He would have known that He was going to change His mind, which means He isn’t changing His mind because He knew He was going to do it. So, how is He really changing His mind if He decided to do something all along that only appears (to us) that He changed His mind?
Consider how God would sometimes pronounce judgment on nations, saying He was going to destroy them; and sometimes those nations would repent. God then relented from judging them. In other words, He changed his mind and didn’t judge them even though He said he would. Are we to say that God didn’t know from all eternity that they would repent? Of course He knew. How do we know that He didn’t say He would destroy them to get them to repent, which was all according to His plan? Furthermore, God holding back his judgment is consistent with what He already said elsewhere:

“If that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent concerning the calamity I planned to bring on it,” ( Jer. 18:.

So, what we’re seeing is God changing His mind from our perspective, but from the eternal perspective He never did. He’s not surprised by our choices, and He does not have to adapt to our mistakes or our plans. He works all things after the counsel of His will, and He does so eternally.

"Anthropomorphic revelation?" That seems to support my previous comment about man infusing human characteristics in God.
Did God know he'd regret creating man? If he did, how could he have thought earlier that his creation was good? And why did he go ahead to create man?
If God knows what and what not he'll do, whether or not he'll change his mind (omniscience), then can it be said that he has freewill? Since he cannot do anything other than what he already knows, how can he have freewill? And how can he be omnipotent since his actions are bound by his omniscience?

McSterling:
It is very common to hear believers in God assert that God cannot change. Even God himself purportedly affirms in Malachi 3:6, " For I am the Lord, I change not..." Several verses of scripture allude to this same claim. For example, Numbers 23:19 says:
"God is not a man, that he should lie;
neither the son of man, that he should
repent: hath he said, and shall he not do
it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not
make it good?"
But the same scriptures give us accounts of God doing exactly what it says he cannot do:

Genesis 6:6
"And it repented the LORD that he had made
man on the earth, and it grieved him at his
heart."

More:
And the LORD repented of the evil which he
thought to do unto his people. (Exodus 32:14 )

And when the angel stretched out his hand upon
Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshing place of Araunah the Jebusite. ( 2 Samuel 24:16 )

And God saw their works, that they turned from
their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that
he had said that he would do unto them; and he
did it not. ( Jonah 3:10 )

These verses show God changing his mind and sometimes feeling sorry just like a human being. Sometimes like in the case in Exodus, it took human intervention to change the Almighty's mind.

In the NT, we see God changing from a vicious, angry, blood thirsty, petty despot, who had no qualms sanctioning the killing and rape of kids and women, to a loving father who loved the world so much, he killed his son/himself for it.

Also, this same God who was so ever active in the Bible, dividing seas, causing a worldwide deluge, raining down fire and brimstone on homosexuals, turning a lady to salt, instructing a father to sacrifice his son, sending down fire in a competition of the gods, making a donkey talk, doing genetics with Jacob, raising dead people, killing even more people, etc., has suddenly become so passive and hidden in today's world. He doesn't meddle in our affairs anymore, even though we now have more issues. What can this sudden transformation be termed if not change?
Whenever God's ugly past in the OT is brought
to the fore, Christians are quick to remind you that, that he did those things in the OT and we're in the NT and yet they say he doesn't change. Why does an immutable God need an OT and NT? And are these Christians not indirectly making a case against God's immutability by explaining that he only did those ugly stuff in the OT and can't do such in the NT? Because immutability will sure mean God can still today sanction the killing of children and women, and entire genocidal campaigns like he did in the OT.

Looking at all these, isn't it clear that God can and has changed? Or is there some other Christian esoteric definition of change? What do Christians mean when they say God cannot change?

Stop the hate. If you must hate, hate something real, not a fiction.

emrain:


Stop the hate. If you must hate, hate something real, not a fiction.

Who says I'm hating?