davien:
That's exclusively what it means....your mix of genes had an ancestor did it not...i've not even gotten into theology yet...we're still in biology..

Even if you believe in a creator,your genes can be traced through a myriad of ancestors which i and everyone shared...that's factual dude...unless you also want to say similarity means nothing,and i'd include you in KEB's palava of not having a Dad or Mum..lol

Well yes, one can trace ancestry through genes but only for a species. Tracing ancestry of vastly different species to a common ancestor via genetics is absurd.

jayriginal:

You'd be surprised.

I doubt that.

UyiIredia:


Well yes, one can trace ancestry through genes but only for a species. Tracing ancestry of vastly different species to a common ancestor via genetics is absurd.

lol absurd?....It shouldn't work if there aren't any common ancestors but it does,it's even used to predict migrations of ancestral homonid populations with ease....how do you think we got mitochondrial eve and an understanding of why it(mitochondrial DNA) is passed down exclusively by mother's?

davien:
lol absurd?....It shouldn't work if there aren't any common ancestors but it does,it's even used to predict migrations of ancestral homonid populations with ease....how do you think we got mitochondrial eve and an understanding of why it(mitochondrial DNA) is passed down exclusively by mother's?

Think again, sometimes it's passed through fathers.

UyiIredia:


Think again, sometimes it's passed through fathers.

That leads to defects...

UyiIredia:


Yes. Bad religion doesn't help at all.

In addition, atheism never made sense to me. Like most others, life on earth and the awesomeness of the universe were enough for me to assume God. A deist I can begin to understand, but I see atheism as ridiculous, evolution even more so. I see evolution as more of the problem since it gives grounds for atheism. If life was created then God exists, if life evolved then God can be dismissed.

Exactly ! Its fascinating when you just look around , you see life as it is , there's that feeling someone bigger than all this is responsible- made it happen . The whole experience of life is reassuring that there's a God .

But you know there are christians who believe in evolution - theistic evolutionists . They believe God orchestrated the whole process . I think they are influenced by "science" . They dont want to exclude God like the atheists , they cant\couldnt explain where these fossils come from seeing that they predated the time of creation , so they said : "you know what , God was behind this whole process , God is the reason for this whole process ."

Actually I have a thread that explained fossils as not being the evidence of evolution . Its theological though --- https://www.nairaland.com/2305535/dealing-misconceptions-10-things-bible

davien:
I know what you mean KEB...but you and i know that DNA is what proves ancestry and has the strongest stand in determining anything...in a court of law,that can even lead to a life or death situation...

I know that , I know the importance of DNA in real-life situations but take a look at that : Why do you think they share some resemblance without being related . This could be a problem in someone's future

davien:
That leads to defects...

I'll check it out.

KingEbukasBlog:


I know that , I know the importance of DNA in real-life situations but take a look at that : Why do you think they share some resemblance without being related . This could be a problem in someone's future

epigenetics...google it..

KingEbukasBlog:


Exactly ! Its fascinating when you just look around , you see life as it is , there's that feeling someone bigger than all this is responsible- made it happen . The whole experience of life is reassuring that there's a God.

Cool.

KingEbukasBlog:
But you know there are christians who believe in evolution - theistic evolutionists . They believe God orchestrated the whole process . I think they are influenced by "science" . They dont want to exclude God like the atheists , they cant\couldnt explain where these fossils come from seeing that they predated the time of creation , so they said : "you know what , God was behind this whole process , God is the reason for this whole process ."

True.

KingEbukasBlog:
Actually I have a thread that explained fossils as not being the evidence of evolution . Its theological though --- https://www.nairaland.com/2305535/dealing-misconceptions-10-things-bible

I personally don't use scripture because the argument can shift to a disparagement of the Bible. Besides I don't think it wise to use a book they disbelieve so I use their weapons against them I argue using scientific facts. You can go to Bible-based creationist sites like icr.org and creation.com to learn of creationist arguments. They also have resources that edify and also answer objections that may be brought up.

UyiIredia why do you accept only a monotheistic god worldview against any other?

davien:
epigenetics...google it..

hmmm ... will look into it

KingEbukasBlog:


hmmm ... will look into it

And environmental factors ofcourse also play a role in looks...

davien:
UyiIredia why do you accept only a monotheistic god worldview against any other?

This question is not for me ,but ...

1."Too many cooks spoil the broth " ,

2."There can't be two captains in a ship, "

3.There has to be the greatest of all ; even in various systems in life , there's a hierarchy and

4.Have you asked yourself why people have many gods , some people feel different needs and desires have to be met by different beings . They also feel or believe different natural bodies or forces are being controlled by different supernatural beings because of their differences . Eg the sun shines or because its presence is paramount to the continuation of life or their existence , therefore there should be a god in control of that , it rains - the plants need water , they need to eat for survival therefore there should be a god in charge of that etc , same for thunder , lightening , planets .

So as a monotheist , I believe one God is responsible for everything in relation to 1 , 2 or both . In addition , personal experiences- miracles , divine healing and the study of the bible - cemented my belief in one God

KingEbukasBlog:


This question is not for me ,but ...

1."Too many cooks spoil the broth " ,

2."There can't be two captains in a ship, "

There has to be the greatest of all ; even in various systems in life , there's a hierarchy and

Have you asked yourself why people have many gods , some people feel different needs and desires have to be met by different beings . They also feel or believe different natural bodies or forces are being controlled by different supernatural brings because of their differences . Eg the sun shines or because its presence is paramount to the continuation of life , their existence therefore there should be a god in control of that , it rains - the plants need water , they need to eat for survival therefore there should be a god in charge of that etc , same for thunder , lightening , planets .

As a monotheist , I believe one God is responsible for everything in relation to 1 , 2 or both . In addition , personal experiences- miracles , healings and the study of the bible - cemented my belief in one God

You are skipping the question...the universe isn't a ship nor a dish...and can't terms like a "board of directors" also be used by a polytheist?...And specialization....or "one can't be a master of everything"....or "you can't eat your cake and have it"

Lets say a polytheist asks you why the universe has billions of galaxies with billions of stars and billions of planets if it's only 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of it that matters to the creator,what would you say?

UyiIredia:


I personally don't use scripture because the argument can shift to a disparagement of the Bible. Besides I don't think it wise to use a book they disbelieve so I use their weapons against them I argue using scientific facts. You can go to Bible-based creationist sites like icr.org and creation.com to learn of creationist arguments. They also have resources that edify and also answer objections that may be brought up.

Yeah . I noticed which is super great . But for me , I think their disbelief means nothing . On some thread some guy said he read the bible from G to R and became an atheist I was like , But when I did that (not fully ) as a kid it made me understand the bible more . It didn't even threaten my belief in God . Questions I had about God made me research more in theology and answers I got made me a better christian .

I visited those sites though , the info I found helped in their only little way . But once in a while throw a passage to two to them though .

davien:
You are skipping the question...the universe isn't a ship nor a dish...and can't terms like a "board of directors" also be used by a polytheist?...And specialization....or "one can't be a master of everything"....or "you can't eat your cake and have it"

Understanding the nature of God through the bible ? I am the Apha and Omega the beginning and the end , the first and the last .

God says he is the creator of all things- clearly written in the bible . Am a christian so that's the strength of my belief in God .

Lets say a polytheist asks you why the universe has billions of galaxies with billions of stars and billions of planets if it's only 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of it that matters to the creator,what would you say?

Lmfao ... who the hell says that earth is the only habitable planet in the universe - I only use this during arguments . There is one proof that there are aliens (Other creations of God in different planets ) , I think ,

"Let us create man in our image and likeness "

How about we have created different intelligent forms of life in different planets , let us make one that looks like us .

Only a close-minded christian would think that God limited his power of creation to the earth only .

Lots of revelations and discoveries about these things will be made known to us during Christ's millennial rule

KingEbukasBlog:


Understanding the nature of God through the bible ? I am the Apha and Omega the beginning and the end , the first and the last .

God says he is the creator of all things- clearly written in the bible . Am a christian so that's the strength of my belief in God .

So a bible verse debunks polytheism? lol

Lmfao ... who the hell says that earth is the only habitable planet in the universe - I only use this during arguments . There is one proof that there are aliens (Other creations of God in different planets ) , I think ,

"Let us create man in our image and likeness "

How about we have created different intelligent forms of life in different planets , let us make one that looks like us .

Only a close-minded christian would think that God limited his power of creation to the earth only .

Lots of revelations and discoveries about these things will be made known to us during Christ's millennial rule

I think you need to reread my post...the condensed version is that why should their be an infinite number of galaxies,suns,asteroids,planets,moons,etc only for one to be at the center stage for just one god?(polytheism argument)

thehomer:



Actually, you can survive for a couple of hours at least without your DNA but you will eventually die.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/2148751_youcanlie_jpeg5d968924a5542a09f868bfd0af70a517

davidylan:


that's virtually impossible. Ion pumps and the cell membrane are proteins that are constantly in flux - how do they work for hours if your DNA vanished? The ion pumps require ATP to function... if you have no DNA, your mitochondria cant function... if mitochondria cant function, you have no ATP... so i ask, outside of passive channels which require no ATP, how does an ion PUMP work? Liposomes are an example of vesicles with bilayer cell membranes - they have no DNA or other cellular organelles to speak off and would be the most relevant example of a cell without DNA. You should note that a liposome has ZERO function other than as a vehicle for drug delivery.

Perhaps you should do a bit more thinking and less wasteful, immature blustering. You've been caught lying and basically have to use bravado to cover.

Ion pumps don't need DNA to function. They need DNA to be formed. Seriously it looks like I'll have to teach you basic biochemistry for you to see the errors you're making. You're in way beyond your depth. Just read through this [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%2B/K%2B-ATPase]Wikipedia[/url] summary because I can't teach you basic biochemistry on a public forum. At least not without enough money as compensation. You're basically too ignorant on this topic to continue this part of the conversation.

Mature red blood cells don't contain DNA and they work for months. This is why I say you're just too ignorant to continue here.

UyiIredia:


Yes a human been is not literally a DNA molecule. But it can be said to be humans are QUITE literally their DNA.

Look stop trying to rescue a failed assertion. If a human cannot literally be a DNA molecule, how can humans quite literally be their DNA?

UyiIredia:

Nothing.

That is because they are literally the same. That is why I've said over and over again that you are not literally your DNA.

UyiIredia:

No, the DNA dictates the terms on which the environment affects an organism.
The DNA is the basis on which an organism is built and that determines how it responds to environmental factors.

The environment determines how the DNA will manifest itself. The environment is the basis on which an organism's DNA responds.

UyiIredia:

You're mistaken. Excessive radiation doesn't completely erase an organisms DNA, in fact, it doesn't affect it much, the article I post below explains that.

http://biotech.law.lsu.edu/research/reports/ACHRE/intro_9_5.html

Besides, some organisms like waterbears survive in excess radiation.

I didn't say it would completely erase an organisms DNA, I said it is one line of evidence that can help us know what would happen if all our DNA suddenly disappeared. Waterbears aren't humans are they?

KingEbukasBlog:


So what was "the state of things"

Please answer my question.

KingEbukasBlog:

So , why did they evolve that way ?

Natural selection.

KingEbukasBlog:

Man is created in God's image . Our abilities to think , reason , decide , moral behaviour , communicate etc are all a reflection of His abilities - as seen in the bible .

Your God is immoral, for him to think, reason and decide then he would have to be bound by time. His communication skills are very questionable. How can you say a God who thinks slavery and commanding genocide are good moral ideas? How can think without time? How exactly does he communicate with you?

KingEbukasBlog:

You answered the question

Are you accepting my answer as being correct?

KingEbukasBlog:

so something came out from nothing ?

Please answer my question.

KingEbukasBlog:

I'm not an evolutionist

Okay.

KingEbukasBlog:

The giant leatherback sea turtle is a only living species in the genus Dermochelys and family Dermochelyidae , assuming it died 400 million years ago , there would be claims that our present turtles evolved from it .

Huh? That doesn't explain the fossils we currently have and thus doesn't answer my question. So, how would you explain fossils?

KingEbukasBlog:

Monkeys come from the same family as man , if man has an ancestral line -homoerectus etc- why shouldn't monkeys ? Can you provide details of monkey's ancestral line or evolutionary phases .

So you want a list of names? Well I'm not sure they've been named but you can follow this link for more information if you're that interested.

KingEbukasBlog:

God did it Am a christian .. remember

How did he do it? What you've said is no better than saying fairies did it.

KingEbukasBlog:

Ive already answered that question

No you didn't. You can post a link to that answer in your response or just quote yourself below.

KingEbukasBlog:

What standards do you think should be attained before one acquire an advanced knowledge of God

Whatever standards that are necessary. After all, you're the one proposing knowledge of this fictional entity.

UyiIredia:


Those structures you describe merely make up L-isomers. Again, what natural process makes organisms use only L-isomers ?

No, the structures I described use molecules of that specific chirality. Again, what exactly is the point you're trying to make?

thehomer:


Ion pumps don't need DNA to function. They need DNA to be formed. Seriously it looks like I'll have to teach you basic biochemistry for you to see the errors you're making. You're way in beyond your depth. Just read through this [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%2B/K%2B-ATPase]Wikipedia[/url] summary because I can't teach you basic biochemistry on a public forum. At least not without enough money as compensation. You're basically too ignorant on this topic to continue this part of the conversation.

Mature red blood cells don't contain DNA and they work for months. This is why I say you're just too ignorant to continue here.

So you sound like a doctor/scientist.

Now can you explain how the body would survive one minute without DNA? How is that possible? A simple change in DNA can lead to morbid results in a persons body, how much then the absence?

KingEbukasBlog:


God created man As a debater , you should know your opponent

I wanted you to say it specifically. Now, how did God create humans? Did he mould them with his hands? Or did he just produce them with his omnipotence? Or what?

UyiIredia:


This is a very poor answer. The proteins are made of those isomers so saying humans use L-isomers because their proteins only use the L-isomers is circular logic.

That isn't "circular logic", that is the actual answer. I'm presenting you with factual information. What exactly is the point you're trying to make? How does the fact that humans use L-isomers mean that God did it? Why didn't God make humans use both L-isomers and D-isomers?

UyiIredia:


This is a poor answer. The requirement is natural processes excluding life that could effect the same kind of biochemicals life has. If natural processes lack that ability they couldn't have effected life.

Why should I exclude life when it is a natural process? The precursors are already available.

UyiIredia:

Neurons get turned on and off when they are or aren't firing electrical impulses. Artificial hearts don't need to contract actual muscles, they are similar in that they contract. Does an artificial muscle have to be invented before you see their similarity ?

If you ignore nanotech and genetic engineering you are being unreasonable. DNA computers, artificial chromosomes, buckyballs, artificial skin etc get as close to elements of living things as it is.

An off neuron is a dead neuron. A neuron that isn't firing isn't "off", it hasn't acquired enough action potential to fire. They need to contract muscles. They need to be biological for the analogy to even start getting close to working. And you're being unreasonable in comparing nanotechnology to biological organisms in order to arrive at the claim that biological organisms that evolved over millions of years are also designed in a similar way.

UyiIredia:

This is silly. Just as you don't have to accept creation because abiogenesis is unevidenced, I don't have to propose another theory to show that evolution is wrong.

This is stupid. You have to explain the world better than evolution does if you want your argument to even be considered. How exactly can you show that a scientific theory is incorrect without having a better theory that does more than that theory does? Note that I said incorrect not incomplete.

UyiIredia:

It doesn't have to happen everywhere else. One other planet would be good for starters, after all humans don't all live in one place. It's amazing that you still hold unto an unevidenced belief while holding a position that lays claim to 'reason and logic'.

Do you really have any suggestion of just how big the universe is because that would let you know of just how ridiculous your talk about "one other planet would be good" actually is. It's amazing that you hold on to myths and superstition and think that they better explain the world than actual reason and logic.

UyiIredia:

If different species are living organisms then hearts, brains, pumps and computers are functional systems (comprised of various parts achieving a given purpose).

Must man design an artificial lifeform before you accept the similarities ? Not to mention that designing such is not impossible and would be a powerful argument for design. I think your 'philosophical reasons' term is a smokescreen, but then again, what are these philosophical reasons ?

You still don't see the flaw of your argument. Again man designing such entities can only lead to the conclusion that humans were created by other humans or human like entities not a magically unknown being.

Reasons like the universe not being designed, life evolved and continues to evolve, Gods aren't needed for moral reasoning and many others.

UyiIredia:


What evidence do you find the most convincing about evolution ?

They're all linked and I find them all pretty convincing. I'll go with evidence from comparative anatomy and comparative biochemistry.

What evidence of intelligent design creationism do you find most convincing?

UyiIredia:
Just to keep things in perspective the purpose of this thread was to argue for God as generally understood (by theists and deists), the Creator of the universe. I think one must first get atheists to accepting there's a God before arguing for why it has to be the God of a religion. As it is, getting a deist out of an atheist is as difficult as turning lead into gold, or as Jesus said, getting a camel through a needle's eye.

Rubbish. If you like, you can open another thread where I agree that there is a deist God but that still doesn't lead to your Christian God.

AllNaijaBlogger:


www.nairaland.com/attachments/2148751_youcanlie_jpeg5d968924a5542a09f868bfd0af70a517

Another ignorant joker.

AllNaijaBlogger:



So you sound like a doctor/scientist.

Now can you explain how the body would survive one minute without DNA? How is that possible? A simple change in DNA can lead to morbid results in a persons body, how much then the absence?

How long do you think it takes for aberrations in DNA to manifest in adults?

I can help you think this through but I won't teach you biochemistry on a public forum for free.

thehomer:


Rubbish. If you like, you can open another thread where I agree that there is a deist God but that still doesn't lead to your Christian God.

You agree there's a deist God ! Aren't you an atheist ?