In other words you are saying that what the Pope said was TRUE but not properly timed.

I'm not so good when it comes to current affairs and political issues, but one thing is sure. Even if the US had oil banks in Palestine or Lebanon, they wouldn't oppose Israel (not because of religion).

Take this: "You could get an e-slap from me if you ask me what's so special about Israel."

I need not tell you Bush is Jew, but note that Jews are not all christians. Even the temple of God has been demolished and one of the best Mosques in the world has since been built on it. Muslims in Israel (which is supposed to be the home of Christianity, Rome now somewhat is,) are not persecuted for any reason whatsoever. i don't think there is a church in Saudi Arabia. That is an example of harmonious coordination and peaceful co-existence.

Al-Qaeda are attacking the US because they did not interfere "physically" in the war between Israel and Palestine. The israel and the philistines have been at war since the days of dinosaurs. Bin Laden is not facing the Israelis, he's heading into the far west which is farther, why not go to Palestine and battle Israel? Ask yourself why my brother. (Israel is so tiny my guy)

What do you have to say about peaceful and business areas like Egypt, Turkey, Dubai and co? aren't they muslims?

Let's call a spade a spade. What's bad is bad. Terrorism should not be supported (though the definition itself sparks beef, Americans are terrorists in the eyes of some people too). Let's not even go too far, Charity begins at home. let's pick out the terrorists amongst us, riot dreamers and trigger happy overzealous religious fanatics. I bet they are Christians right? or don't they have the right to retaliate also?

Keep hiding the obvious. it's like keeping a baby cobra in your mouth. No one will beg you to open it at long last. If Killing is approved by a religion, I bet you wouldn't expect less. Someone said Israel has over 10,000 Lebanese in it's jail. There's hope for a release someday. The Lebanese prolly woulda bombed the opposers if the case was reversed.

Enough of some blind talks going on. The pope has just clicked on go which some miscreants had been waiting for, now there's no going back.

Islam is a religion of Peace: Is it that some people are out to destroy that statement, is it a matter of integrity, is it an irony, or is it that we need to be educated? Muhammad Cartoons sparked killings worldwide, Davinci code was welcome or overlooked. Who's more peaceful?

The 21st Century has opened so many eyes to the truth. If we are to keep saying this is a religion of peace then we need to prove it beyond reasonable doubt. I have true Muslims who are peaceful but they can't help being bias when it comes to issues regarding their brothers even if the latter is out to kill for "obvious" reasons.

Sorry for the Pope and "Pigeons"!

The pope said nothing wrong, he only quoted a 15th abi 16th century king, now al quedawants to start world war 3, against the Vatican, Christianity and the West. I mean people have said worse things,
If this is what religion does to people, (makes them mad), I'll rather die an atheist.

@ Drn,
By the power of the Lord Jesus Christ, I cancel that statement of yours. You shall live to glorify the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

KDK:

@ Drn,
By the power of the Lord Jesus Christ, I cancel that statement of yours. You shall live to glorify the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I second brother

Religion has always been the wound and never the bandage!

@Davidylan,

I typed iran war with iraq on google and even the site you referenced came up.

I think the results have a lot of information on who the US supported during the war.

Take time to read through some of them as I find it difficult arguing such a clear cut issue.

Enjoy

honestly, av read some very interesting views here. the pope was VERY CORRECT and there is nothin new in what he said. infact he put it lightly cos its rather worse. Wonder why the religion is so violent. they even kill themselves o! imagine what is happenin in the middle east. its vey disheartenin! every misunderstsndin is resolved with bombs or sword. Did the prophet really preach that? i feel people take things to the extreme at times.

[center][/center]"This morning, a white man just became Muslim. I saw him with my own eyes"

What does this statement got to do with what is going in the world? do you know how many Muslims are converting everyday? My mum was a Muslim from a BIG Muslim family.

Can you answer the following questions?

1. Why is it a Muslim law to kill a converter? am
2. Why are Muslims happy when people(including Muslim) died on 9/11 and 7/7
3. Why must you spread your religion with sword.
4. A girl was killed by members of her family(her dad and brothers) in UK because she wanted to marry a non Muslim.
5.Why are women treated like slaves( i saw it in Sudan)
6. Why would a Muslim go to heaven for killing a non-Muslim( a preacher of hate said this in UK, we saw it life on TV)
I can go on but i not against any religion but i don't understand why Islam is full of hatred.

@ Afam,

You need to read your bible well. “Be not equally yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.” II Corinthians 6:14-17.

cool4ny:

[center][/center]"This morning, a white man just became Muslim. I saw him with my own eyes"

What does this statement got to do with what is going in the world? do you know how many Muslims are converting everyday? My mum was a Muslim from a BIG Muslim family.

Can you answer the following questions?

1. Why is it a Muslim law to kill a converter? am
2. Why are Muslims happy when people(including Muslim) died on 9/11 and 7/7
3. Why must you spread your religion with sword.
4. A girl was killed by members of her family(her dad and brothers) in UK because she wanted to marry a non Muslim.
5.Why are women treated like slaves( i saw it in Sudan)
6. Why would a Muslim go to heaven for killing a non-Muslim( a preacher of hate said this in UK, we saw it life on TV)
I can go on but i not against any religion but i don't understand why Islam is full of hatred.

@cool4ny,

You've said it all! How can a religion that lays claim to peace be full of violence, hatred and irrationality

why is it that you cannot have a debate with its practitioners without them trying to disapprove of another religion (esp. christianity) without answering the question

and how long are people going to turn a blind eye to what is blatantly before them

Let's call a spade, a spade.

talking about religion usually provokes strong emotions in individuals from the devout/fanatic to the free-thinker/atheist.

islam is a religion tautamount to violence especially in the world we live in now. but just a food for thought dear "forumites", is christianity spared of a similar violent acts [directly or indirectly] in its immediate past? what was the role of the catholic church during the crusades of the 13th century and more recently during the holocaust [where the church have been said turned a blind eye and maybe actively encouraged the slaughtering of jews in their thousands. clarification from academicians/theologians/historians appreciated

@flying dut
u made a valid point.
Christianity in its primitive form NEVER had any violence associated with it.
In the first 200 years of its spread from Jerusalem to other parts of the world, it was a faith that conquered the hearts of  people by its inherent power and its miraculous nature.

It acquired the notoriety u referred to when it became the faith of the Europeans under Emperor Constantane.it then became the tool of political oppression personified by Rome.
I can't hold brief for the Roman catholic church,but I know that the former Pope in 2000,owned up to the atrocities commited by her against Jews,Muslims and other Christians that were not catholics.At least,their is an acknowledgement that the Church of Rome strayed away from the teachings of Christ in those dark ages.

Well for Holocaus,t this is mixed.There were some Christians that protected  Jews from Hitler and some of them were Catholics,even though the actions of the  Pope at that time left much to be desired.

Islam on the other hand from its inception by Muhammad was a violent faith that spread by the force of bloodshed and banditry.
It encouraged the killing of non-muslims as a holy duty.It has been like that since the days of Muhammad to the days of Osama Bin Laden and ever more it shall be.The birth of Muhammad in the 7th century was one of  history's sad events just like the  infamous, blood thirsty savages like Hitler and Stalin.

Consider this;if every Christian emulate Christ and lives by his original teachings,there would be peace and tranquility in the world, on the other hand, if any Muslim(or anybody for that matter) emulate the life of Muhammad,  follow his teachings in its orthodox form,there would be wars,massacres,genocide,slavery,rape of women and under-aged girls. Do you know where all these is currently happening? Darfur in Sudan! And the culprit? Mohammedeans.

I'm very disappointed and ashamed of some Muslims in NIGERIA . Its true that illiteracy (incurable disease in naija ) is a big issue in our country . We are killing our own brothers and sisters and setting our homes and churches on fire over comments in foreign lands. . . how pathetic ? . Have u ever heard of Jews blowing up a bus for religious reasons , or a Christian blowing up a cafe in the name of Jesus ? Have u ever read about a Buddhist monk shooting a nun or a Rabbi killing a Muslim cleric? Let the followers of Islam accept the pope's apology and show the world what a beautiful religion they are practicing and register it in their dumb brain that violence is not the answer 2 a solution when religion is involved .

Hey lads, let me point out here that no one has monopoly of violence, anyone has the right to read whatever he or she has to read, the POPE was only reading a text published by an educated and enlightened person about how inhuman and wicked the principles of the "so called religion of peace; islam "is and i am happy he has not retracted his statement, he only came out to say he is sorry for people who misunderstood him and not that he is sorry for reading waht he read.
So i want to tell this especially to the ignorant and illiterate muslims who make up a large part of that religion that no one has monopoly of violence and that Christians worldwide are not pertubed of the so-called 'jihad' and the vane comments made by this illiterate muslims.
Even if some christians may not be willing to fight physically, they can fight spiritually and that is powerful enough to prompt God to wipe off these "evil ones" among men if it pleases so please God to do so.
But then there are trillions of christians and none christians worlwide who are ready to defend fellow christians and attack anyone who feels powerful enough to fight against the children of God and i am one of them. So if these illiterate and ignorant muslims are ready to launch the offensive, then let them begin and stand back for the consequencies!
Miko.
loverdex@excite.com

Islam is a religion that preaches love and tolerance, yet anytime anyone makes a critical comment concerning Islam or anything islamic, some moslems start spoiling for war, declaring fatwah and jihad etc etc. How does that holy war and love go together?

The pope cited a dead pope's statement, and people are calling for his head on a plate. When someone came up with a theory that the virgin mary was raped by a roman soldier, christians waved it aside as a joke and everything went back to normal. That is exactly what it is: freaking joke. I wonder how many churches would have been burnt if that statement was reversed towards the Islamic faith.

Some moslems have proven too many times in the recent past that they have zero tolerance for negative comments that border on their faith. It seems that their faith could be influenced by such comments. It thus seems that the very faith and beilef of moslems are hinged on the utternaces and comments made by people of other faiths. Is this a test of true faith?

Now let's face reality. With the advent of the internet, the concept of freedom of speech and expression is a phenomenon that has come to stay. Islam is not the only religion in the world. It was not the first either.

My advice to my moslem colleagues on this forum is this: practise what you preach. cascade that to the younger generation and moslem-converts to be. If religion is all about lifting the scimitar and sword and chopping people's head off for expressing their views, then the christian crusaders would still be around today ravaging the whole earth like they did ancient Europe.

Such days could be brought back, if need be.

@ Rhea,
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, You are one of the few muslims I respect. I would however be happier if you could acccept JESUS CHRIST as your lord and saviour.


P.S,
Is dat really you?

@ Belotti,
Let me ask you something. Was the quotation made by the pope wrong or simply expository of Islam?

belloti:

I don't think most of you guys here will agree with pope benedict. The fact that we muslims are known to be highly sensitive and intolerant of speeches or conducts villifying our holy prophet is enough reason why sensible people should stay clear of provocative statements.

The pope basically is trying to test the will of some of us who try daily to preach the doctrine of peace to our brothers. The Thisday report and Cartoon contoversy is enough to show the vatican chap the possible implication of careless remarks by his eminence, the insensitive ex-nazi.

If indeed any innocent soul perish as a result of these global protest, we all know who to blame for starting an unneccessary conflict.

The utter insensitivity and downright derogatory tone of your post leaves much to be desired! just read your own quote: "The fact that we muslims are known to be highly sensitive and intolerant of speeches or conducts villifying our holy prophet is enough reason why sensible people should stay clear of provocative statements" I am beffudled as to what you intended to achieve with this idiotic statement. Islam is not the first neither is it the last religion, it has NO monopoly of violence, we leave in a society that prides itself on the right to free speech and no mullah leaving in the stone age has a right to deny us that! So the fact that christians are NOT known to be highly sensitive and intolerant of speeches or conducts villifying Jesus Christ is enough grounds for muslims to deride christianity?
Is it not amazing that while churches are not allowed in Saudia Arabia there are giant mosques in Isreal and Rome, christianity's most holy sites?

Why are muslims "highly sensitive and intolerant" of criticism? Is there something to hide?

On one hand you deride the pope's statements while refering to him as an ex-nazi, what if catholics suddenly decided to burn up the Nigerian embassy, burn Saudi flags, bomb mosques and threaten a day of anger for your careless statement? Oh or did you make that statement because you are aware christians are "not highly sensitive and intolerant" of criticism?

Are we now to blame the pope for the murder of the nun in Somalia? Are we to blame the journalist who drew the mohammed cartoons for the deaths of Nigerian christians? Do you even give your statements any shred of thot before posting?
What right have infidels and barbarians like you to threaten the life of an innocent individual simply because the pope decided to say what every other person is aware of but hides it because of political correctness?

Where are the "moderates" like you who claim to be trying to "preach the doctrine of peace" to your brethren? where is that "doctrine of peace"? Is it perchance in a copy of the quran that most of us are yet to read?

DAVID, please ask them o o o o

I don't know about the pope being an ex-nazi), but then come to think of it: St Paul murdered so many of Christ's followers, and yet became one of Christ's most celebrated apostles.

No one is without sin. That's exactly why Christ came to the world.

If I wage way against all that criticise me on a daily basis, by now I woud be a war hero, and would still be fighting; and chopping off heads accordingly.

KDK:

@ Rhea,
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, You are one of the few muslims I respect. I would however be happier if you could acccept JESUS CHRIST as your lord and saviour.


P.S,
Is that really you?

I am not a moslem. But I have moslem brothers. The world is a global village.

belloti:

KDK, Those comments were misconcieved and provocative. Both ways they shouldnt be made. You may not agree with us the liberal muslims but our Holy prophet is an epithome of peace. The greatest advice he gave to us was "La tagthab" meaning Dont be Angry.

Dont be blinded by the period of his persecution in his native mecca and his resolve to fight in self defence. I swear He was the greatest peace lover i ever know

Belloti,
Spoken like a true muslim.
I believe there are many like you (moderates). That buttresses my point that not all moslems are radicals. Let the world know you moderates exist. Chastise violent moslems and christians as well when they are violent. This is a time to take sides with righteousness and not with religion.

belloti:

KDK, Those comments were misconcieved and provocative. Both ways they shouldnt be made. You may not agree with us the liberal muslims but our Holy prophet is an epithome of peace. The greatest advice he gave to us was "La tagthab" meaning Dont be Angry. Dont be blinded by the period of his persecution in his native mecca and his resolve to fight in self defence. I swear He was the greatest peace lover i ever know

Tell that to the marines! When respected Mullahs declare a day of "anger" over a mere quote from the 12th century it makes nonsense of whatever La tagthab means!
If your holy prophet is the epitome of "peace" but still destroyed cities albeit in "self defence", captured slaves, ordered the murder of "infidels and apes", and plundered travelling merchants then we have to redefine what peace really means!

BTW, there is nothing like a "liberal" muslim, its just a smokescreen for muslims who have no choice but to abide by the laws that are in place in more civilized countries where they have decided to hide their heads from the oppressive regimes in their own countries!

If the popes QUOTES NOT COMMENTS were provocative and ill-concieved, what about you refering to him as an ex-nazi? What of Ahmedinajad who is ordering the destruction of the USA and Isreal? Are those words of "peace"?

It is high time Europe and America rose up and began to strike oppressive muslim countries who mistake silence for cowardice!

Dear Belloti,
As much as I tried to ignore and laugh away your claim of being 'a moderate peace-loving muslim' and yet declare that you muslims are 'sensitive' to critique of your religion of peace, is that not contradictory even to you.
Dont you see, the reason for the violence and threats of violence by muslims everytime is because of exactly what you've stated and done i.e resistance to dialogue and intellectual debate about your faith which is what Pope Benedict is asking. It is this resistance to change in an increasingly modern world that is responsible for the rise of fundermentalism in islam.
-Why is there resistance to dialogue and change? because such will expose the inherent lies upon which the so-called religion of peace is based.
-Who are the moderate muslims? those who 'justify' the violence and actions of the 7/7 and 9/11 bombers but however will not strap bombs on themselves. So how are 'moderates' different from the extremist?, no difference, it is only a transition phase depending on how much you allow the mullahs and sheiks to confuse you. Violence is an integral componet for the propagation and sustainance of islam
-Recently the Da vinci code raised fictional but sensationalised issues about Jesus Christ, rather than we engaging in demostrations and calling for the head of the author, it was an opportunity to share and discuss Jesus Christ with those who read, and thank God many gave their lives to christ. See the mysterious ways in which God tuns the wiles of the enemy into opportunty to win souls? The same is what is going on in islam: it is an attempt of the enemy to keep you in perpetual darkness from know the "way, the truth and the life"

-Who are the moderate muslims? those who 'justify' the violence and actions of the 7/7 and 9/11 bombers but  however will not strap bombs on themselves. So how are 'moderates' different from the extremist?,

I wonda oooo!

The point is the Pope has voiced out his opinion and everyone understands it even though he's been made to rescind on his statement. But the meaning has been read.

2old4that:

The point is the Pope has voiced out his opinion and everyone understands it even though he's been made to rescind on his statement. But the meaning has been read.

The pope only quoted a 12th century pope!!!! It was not his oppinion!

of course!
But the message is well understood.

Very well understood by the vast majority who are only well aware of the "sensitivity and intolerance" of muslims to voice their oppinions!

belloti:

Havila and David, we both should know by now i am a moderate muslim.

Who and by what can we define a "moderate peace-loving" muslim? By his clothes?

belloti:

i love peace but i don't like being taken for granted just because someone felt that he most imposed his opinion down my throat.

That is the exact reason christians are begining to cry out over the hypocrisy and fraud that Islam is!

belloti:

some muslims in nairaland have already lost patience with some of you guys but i bowed to stay and sort things out for as long as it get.

Lost patience? Pls dont make me laugh, how can you start up a thread to attack 101 "cut and paste" contradictions in the bible and then run out of patience defending it?
No they havent, they simply ran out of excuses to give for the inconsistencies in Islam, they have also run out of steam on their bogus 101 contradictions in the bible!