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Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? - Politics (2) - Nairaland

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Is Democracy Really Working For Nigerians? / Will Democracy Really Be Safe By 2015? / Can Democracy Really Work In A 'Tribal And Religious' Society? (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Nobody: 5:51pm On Feb 19, 2009
JustGood:

Have you considered that we may be putting the cart before the horse? Why dont we adopt what will suit our attitude first?

Well, its a pity that I cannot speak for every nigerian even though one thing still remains clear; the so-called western democracy was our attitude in Igboland for hundreds of years and it was run effectively.
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by lucabrasi(m): 5:53pm On Feb 19, 2009
JustGood:

You have mentioned some things that they have in their societies upon which their  democracies are built which we dont have. Why should we then try to build the same type of democracies when we obviously lack those ingredients within us?
exactly,the point here is that its not enough to say the system cant work in africa based on some corrupt cabal rulling us,what dont we have exactly?
we dont have honest and credible people who have the brains and brawns to rule us?

ill ask you what your alternatives are if you dont subscribe to democracy, as far as im concerned,the western world do not have a monopoly on credible leaders,but the various bobby traps they have set for us including our own individual and collective faults i might hasten to add is the cause of failure in african leadership
Lagosboy:

Ask yourself this question. since 1999 or even 1979 which president has Nigerians truly elected?

How many governors running govts of the people? at present it is only maybe Lagos,Kano,Bauchi and now Edo we can say have the governors they voted.

So how is this democracy favouring us. Curruption has to vanish before democracy can work for us.
im asking myself like you suggested,and the only thing flashing in my head is the fact that,we 100 and something million nigerians both home and abroad have allowed the status quo to be over the years,something is  terribly wrong with the inhabitants of a country that allows less than 10% to run roughshod over them and rape them and their economy, we in the diaspora are guilty even though many like to talk the talk and the nigerians living in nigeria have a lot of fault as well.

as for corruption,can you honestly say you have not participated in any corrupt exchange in nigeria?either giving or receiving,
so have i and 99.9% of every nigerian,even worse for these abroad who will willingly obey the law in their various diasporas and then get to nigeria and change over night,point of my rambling is that eradication of corruption which you advance as the main problem has to start with us
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Nobody: 5:56pm On Feb 19, 2009
So what's best for us?
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Kobojunkie: 5:59pm On Feb 19, 2009
nuzo:

Well, its a pity that I cannot speak for every nigerian even though one thing still remains clear; the so-called western democracy was our attitude in Igboland for hundreds of years and it was run effectively.

Abi!! What we label WESTERN has been practised for hundreds of years among the many tribes, and still exists. I don't understand why treating it as if it is alien to our society in anyway helps us better understand why we have what we have today, even though we claim to have a democracy.

To top it off, we have never, as a people, fought to have democracy work for us as a nation, so why do we now rule it out as a viable option?
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Sauron1: 6:02pm On Feb 19, 2009
stillwater:

So what's best for us?

Monarchy!!!

We(Africans) are genetically programmed that way.
One man, many wives and his absolute power.
Look at Africa for the past half a century and you will be convinced Nigerians are not the only set of people in Africa who hang on to power.
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Nobody: 6:06pm On Feb 19, 2009
~Sauron~:

Monarchy!!!

We(Africans) are genetically programmed that way.
One man, many wives and his absolute power.
Look at Africa for the past half a century and you will be convinced Nigerians are not the only set of people in Africa who hang on to power.

Maybe you are genetically engineered that way, definitely not me!!!
The dogmatic attitude of African leaders should never be used as a generalized mindset of other sane Africans.
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Sauron1: 6:09pm On Feb 19, 2009
stillwater:

Maybe you are genetically engineered that way, definitely not me!!!
The dogmatic attitude of African leaders should never be used as a generalized mindset of other sane Africans.

Sane Africans?? Who is a sane African??
Embracing the culture of the white people is what makes you sane??
Are you technically saying Africans were wallowing in insanity before the arrival of the white folks??
Jesus Wept!! cry cry cry cry
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Kobojunkie: 6:10pm On Feb 19, 2009
See what I mean?
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by lucabrasi(m): 6:20pm On Feb 19, 2009
~Sauron~:

Monarchy!!!

We(Africans) are genetically programmed that way.
One man, many wives and his absolute power.
Look at Africa for the past half a century and you will be convinced Nigerians are not the only set of people in Africa who hang on to power.
im african and i sure as hell r not programmed that way,safer to speak for yourself, every single african country that has held on to power s had the active connivance of some western country in the background,
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Sauron1: 6:26pm On Feb 19, 2009
lucabrasi:

im african and i sure as hell r not programmed that way,safer to speak for yourself, every single african country that has held on to power s had the active connivance of some western country in the background,

But what brought about the thirst for power in the first place??
Are you saying these African leaders wanted to leave power but the western countries forced them to stay??
I know you are African but you have to admit African leaders want to rule for EVER.
Same theory applies to polygamy.
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Nobody: 6:31pm On Feb 19, 2009
Na waoh for WAEC. shocked
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by lucabrasi(m): 7:19pm On Feb 19, 2009
~Sauron~:

But what brought about the thirst for power in the first place??
Are you saying these African leaders wanted to leave power but the western countries forced them to stay??
I know you are African but you have to admit African leaders want to rule for EVER.
Same theory applies to polygamy.
here r some few examples we can ponder on,where was the western world specifically britain when robert mugabe was cosying up to them?

where was america and britain e.t.c when hitler started killing jews(i intentionally added this to show this attitude transcended just african politics)

who killed or planned thomas sankara's assasination?

who supported and encouraged the late sha of irn for 47 years before the revolution?

who tried removing castro by force?

which nations have been behind almost every coups including the nigerian civil war?

same thing in somalia presently,the british government are directly paying the salaries of the top govt functionaries including the police chief,the former somalian interior minister is a british citizen yet they have closed a blind eye to the atrocities happening there
i could go on and on,and this is me,an ordinary individual not privy to the cia,fbi and mi5 and mi6 records




to answer your question,western countries foisted these leaders on us simply because they will dance to their tunes, and as soon as these leaders rebelled against them,that is when they use their media,neo liberal agencies in economic warfare,united nations e.t.c
the thing is that if we add 10 plus 10,we will always get 20,no other figure,untill we change the figures we r adding up,we complain about democracies and bad leadership,while all of us watch the same cabal replacing themselves with each other or their children and rather than tackling that we r blaming democracy
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Busybody2(f): 7:28pm On Feb 19, 2009
My darlink Luca is back kiss kiss kiss

~Sauron~:

Sane Africans?? Who is a sane African??
Embracing the culture of the white people is what makes you sane??
Are you technically saying Africans were wallowing in insanity before the arrival of the white folks??
Jesus Wept!! cry cry cry cry


Hear hear cheesy cheesy cheesy
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Nnenna1(f): 7:28pm On Feb 19, 2009
Wikipedia article on democracy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

As you can tell by just reading Wikipedia, there are different types of democracies, made to suit people depending on cultural beliefs, norms and general attitudes.

PLEASE read it. Because there is still a whole lot of misunderstanding in this thread concerning my initial post. The government should be for the people, I agree.

So then, why can't African governments truly be for African people? Please revisit all of my posts to get the sense of my gist.  I'm not a die-hard political theorist, but I'd like to hear from acclaimed experts who can shed light as to the kind of democratic government best fitting for Nigeria in particular. How will this model ensure accountability and responsibility to everyday Nigerians, who, as it is, are ethnically oriented. How can this model be applied to the interest of other countries, especially those in conflict?

Drafted out government prototypes welcome for discussion.  smiley

@ sauron: I'm not sure that absolute monarchy and Africa go hand in hand. Yorubas had a system of checks and balances with Obas, and Igbos followed an Athenian-type (sort of) leadership model with the Umunna/Umuada.
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by debosky(m): 7:35pm On Feb 19, 2009
Conspiracy theorists.

Ok, so the west was cosying up to Mugabe - since 1999 or thereabouts, they've wanted him to leave and he still remains, wanting to rule forever. I wonder what leader is holding him up in the background.

African kings never got elected, they were selected by the 'gods' and never left unless the 'gods' said so. Many ruled till death, and that is what many Modern African leaders continue to insist on doing.

We may have some understanding of democracy, but it will take a while for it to germinate.
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Busybody2(f): 7:46pm On Feb 19, 2009
debosky:

Conspiracy theorists.

Ok, so the west was cosying up to Mugabe - since 1999 or thereabouts, they've wanted him to leave and he still remains, wanting to rule forever. I wonder what leader is holding him up in the background.

African kings never got elected, they were selected by the 'gods' and never left unless the 'gods' said so. Many ruled till death, and that is what many Modern African leaders continue to insist on doing.

We may have some understanding of democracy, but it will take a while for it to germinate.


The only reason they are crying foul is because Mugabe is no longer willing to dance to their tune, do you really think they'd give a hoot if he remained for a further 60 years if he hadn't stepped on their toes by sending the farmers packing wink


If you are talking about African kings, Queen Elizabeth nko, how long has she and her family been there feeding off the taxpayers cheesy
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Sauron1: 7:55pm On Feb 19, 2009
lucabrasi:

to answer your question,western countries foisted these leaders on us simply because they will dance to their tunes, and as soon as these leaders rebelled against them,that is when they use their media,neo liberal agencies in economic warfare,united nations e.t.c
the thing is that if we add 10 plus 10,we will always get 20,no other figure,untill we change the figures we r adding up,we complain about democracies and bad leadership,while all of us watch the same cabal replacing themselves with each other or their children and rather than tackling that we r blaming democracy

I understand the theory of muppet dictators but who thrusted Abacha and IBB upon NIGERIA?? Queen Elizabeth or Margaret Thatcher??

Africans understand how democracy should work and reh reh reh. It's not rocket science.
However, when it comes to the nitty gritty schitzos, we fall short because of the way we are.
It's only in Africa a man wants to be an eternal leader for life and have people serve him until the day he dies.

The master-slave relationship is genetically indoctrinated in Africans and i am not talking about political leaders alone. . . .even ordinary men in the community believe the world should start and end in their domain. Are those ones too controlled by the western world??
Letz face it. . . . .Democracy is not CUT for us.
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Kobojunkie: 7:57pm On Feb 19, 2009
yikes~~~!!! grin cheesy grin cheesy grin
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Nnenna1(f): 8:00pm On Feb 19, 2009
~Sauron~:


Africans understand how democracy should work and reh reh reh. It's not rocket science.
However, when it comes to the nitty gritty schitzos, we fall short because of the way we are.
It's only in Africa a man wants to be an eternal leader for life and have people serve him until the day he dies.

The master-slave relationship is genetically indoctrinated in Africans and i am not talking about political leaders alone. . . .even ordinary men in the community believe the world should start and end in their domain. Are those ones too controlled buy the western world??
Letz face it. . . . .Democracy is not CUT for us.

I disagree.

However, I'd like to know your opinion on how whatever that is "cut out" for us, should be made to fit so that ordinary citizens not be neglected.

Or maybe the underlying tone here is that Africans are inherently not capable of good governance. Please educate me.
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Sauron1: 8:11pm On Feb 19, 2009
Nnenna1:

I disagree.

LOL. grin


However, I'd like to know your opinion on how whatever that is "cut out" for us, should be made to fit so that ordinary citizens not be neglected.

Monarchy!!! Letz go back to the roots.
If you and I know we can never rule a country or state. . . .would we be stealing ballot boxes, assassinating aspirants, breeding political thugs, throwing chairs in the senate and all those nonsense political leaders engage themselves in?? Of course we won't.
Our African minds will be channelled into other things rather than looking for the next person to gift a ghana-must-go bag to win his vote.
Let there be one ruling royal family grin grin grin grin grin


Or maybe the underlying tone here is that Africans are inherently not capable of good governance. Please educate me.

We are not capable of good governance cos we want our children to step to the plate after we pass away(Monarchy theory).
This is why i won't be surprised if the offspring of the Abachas, Babangidas, Shagaris, Abiolas, Atikus etc come back in few years to rule.
There's nothing bad in nurturing one's child in the world of politics but our leaders do everything humanly possible to install their kids in political positions whether they are suitable for the job or not. You cannot take that mentality away from our DNA.
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by lucabrasi(m): 8:27pm On Feb 19, 2009
Busy_body:



The only reason they are crying foul is because Mugabe is no longer willing to dance to their tune, do you really think they'd give a hoot if he remained for a further 60 years if he hadn't stepped on their toes by sending the farmers packing wink


If you are talking about African kings, Queen Elizabeth nko, how long has she and her family been there feeding off the taxpayers cheesy


thank you jare,you r too much,need i say more?NO!!!!
HOW LONDON AND THE WEATHER smiley
~Sauron~:

I understand the theory of muppet dictators but who thrusted Abacha and IBB upon NIGERIA?? Queen Elizabeth or Margaret Thatcher??

Africans understand how democracy should work and reh reh reh. It's not rocket science.
However, when it comes to the nitty gritty schitzos, we fall short because of the way we are.
It's only in Africa a man wants to be an eternal leader for life and have people serve him until the day he dies.


no,queen eliza didnt install abacha but have you ever asked the same way fela asked in beast of no nation(if u r not a fela fan,go n listen to it on you tube)
why didnt they tell us that we made a mistake and dis isnt the democracy they gave us at independence?
they almost crippled libya with sanctions,same as cuba,why not nigeria?imf,wto,un


now you are entrenching the assertion that black people have challenged over the years of the way white people see them,what do you mean the way we are?
so we are not capable of ruling ourselves because we r africans?are you advocating for the view of white slave owners that we are being enslaved for our own good?

i bet you also think its our fault that we r suffering from famine and poverty,
the reason the african leaders wants to die in power is because if you take a mad man on the street,bath and cloth him and then install him as president,what do you expect he wll do?should you now blame the country or democracy?the question should be why are the western democracies not being the moral authority they profess to be ,or the america we see in hollywood movies when it comes to upholding the people's wills, i dont see them saying anything during the abiola saga,even though some have said  madeline albright knew abiola would not be let out alive if he didnt renounce.
~Sauron~:


The master-slave relationship is genetically indoctrinated in Africans and i am not talking about political leaders alone. . . .even ordinary men in the community believe the world should start and end in their domain. Are those ones too controlled by the western world??
Letz face it. . . . .Democracy is not CUT for us.
i dont agree with that as well,you are looking at politics while ignoring sociological issues, if you ask an average nigerian for instance,he/she will tell you the government has not been responsible for his electricity,water e.t.c for years,an average nigerian is a local government or island on his or her own,taking care of themselves without govt intervention for years,so its logical for that kind of feeling or attitude to be ingrained in their psyche over the years,the western democracies dont have the same thing because they run a welfare oriented government,they are responsible for providing some basic infrastructures,welfare package e.t.c while the people have to obey specific laws,pay taxes e.t.c

if i generate my own electricity,my own water through my own borehole,i and my other neighbourhoods pay for my own security e.t.c wont i be right in thinking the world starts and ends in my own domain?
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Sauron1: 8:33pm On Feb 19, 2009
lucabrasi:

if i generate my own electricity,my own water through my own borehole,i and my other neighbourhoods pay for my own security e.t.c wont i be right in thinking the world starts and ends in my own domain?

I thunk the Ranka Dede mentality has been with our people before the era of bad governance.
Africans love what i call the big man syndrome. It's me and nobody else.
I think it's a curse on the black race. My toy is greater than yours, my shoe was bought abroad while yours wasn't. I get to hear this on children's playgrounds when black kids are playing so these things are genetically programmed in our system.
Sir Alex Ferguson(a British Knight) still drives himself around while it's common to see a 25 yr-old banker in Nigeria with his/her drivers, gatemen and dozens of housemaids. We love the master-slave mentality. U gotta admit that.
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by lucabrasi(m): 8:42pm On Feb 19, 2009
~Sauron~:

I thunk the Ranka Dede mentality has been with our people before the era of bad governance.
Africans love what i call the big man syndrome. It's me and nobody else.
I think it's a curse on the black race. My toy is greater than yours, my shoe was bought abroad while yours wasn't. I get to hear this on children's playgrounds when black kids are playing so these things are genetically programmed in our system.
Sir Alex Ferguson(a British knight) still drives himself around while it's common to see a 25 yr-old banker in Nigeria with his/her drivers, gatemen and dozens of housemaids. We love the master-slave mentality. U gotta admit that.
while you are totally right,isnt the reasons obvious?few examples

when guys/sugar daddies go clubbing in nigeria,its easy to entice girls with a few thousands because of poverty,they cant do the same here not because british girls dont have lose morals but because they have every basic need,you can walk into a mercedes dealership and drive any car you want out,my neighbour who is a taxi driver just got the latest 2008 s class, imagine one nigerian governor telling his wife to come take a ride in his s class?

sir alex fergusson wouldnt drive around in nigeria because its not safe for him,and the banker in nigeria is doing so because of the added stress of 8 hrs hold up,cheap labour as a result of poverty e.t.c
lets be honest,how many times have you gotten home and wished there was someone to cook for you because you r too tired,you think white poeple dont love these perks like drivers,househelps if not for the cost?

a nanny in the middle class to above average income areas earn about 200pounds at least per day
imagine how much a driver would earn,
how old is russel brand and he has a full time driver?the australian paparazzi guy has a full time driver,there are many celebs in uk not hollywood who have drivers,are they suffering from ranka dede mentality too?

the point im trying to make with all my preamble is simply that,if the focus is on practicing democracy the way it should be,we wouldnt have all these issues,and advocating for an alternative form of democracy when we have not been sucessful in one we have been grappling with for well over 40 years is a recipe for disaster, a country like cuba can have a referendum or whatever to argue for an against communism,even venezuela to an extent because they have had some form of sucess in the form of governance they r using
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Moonstone(f): 8:55pm On Feb 19, 2009
lucabrasi:

the point im trying to make with all my preamble is simply that,if the focus is on practicing democracy the way it should be,we wouldnt have all these issues,and advocating for an alternative form of democracy when we have not been sucessful in one we have been grappling with for well over 40 years is a recipe for disaster, a country like cuba can have a referendum or whatever to argue for an against communism,even venezuela to an extent because they have had some form of sucess in the form of governance they r using
Do you realize that Nigeria has not had a stable form of government for the longest time? It is hard to start talking about Western style democracy working for us when we have not had a stable form of government. This alternation between military and civilian rule has screwed us up enough. What we need to do now is to be adapted to the way of life we've been pushed to. Practicing democracy the way it should be practised is hard because we have been too unstable in those regards.
What we need to do is stop copying the US, UK and other developed countries and find a way to make this particular rule last. I see us returning to a Military rule once again and I am convinced that it will destroy the country because we would revert back to democracy after our president dies. We can't succeed until we find out how to keep this form of governance in power. We can't continually compare ourselves to non-African countries. It just won't work. No continent has had to deal with the amount of trauma that we as a continent has been through.
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Kobojunkie: 9:04pm On Feb 19, 2009
Moonstone:

Do you realize that Nigeria has not had a stable form of government for the longest time? It is hard to start talking about Western style democracy working for us when we have not had a stable form of government. This alternation between military and civilian rule has screwed us up enough. What we need to do now is to be adapted to the way of life we've been pushed to. Practicing democracy the way it should be practised is hard because we have been too unstable in those regards.
What we need to do is stop copying the US, UK and other developed countries and find a way to make this particular rule last. I see us returning to a Military rule once again and I am convinced that it will destroy the country because we would revert back to democracy after our president dies. We can't succeed until we find out how to keep this form of governance in power. We can't continually compare ourselves to non-African countries. It just won't work. No continent has had to deal with the amount of trauma that we as a continent has been through.

In otherwords, you are saying the people should not be allowed to FREELY PICK who they want to govern them? We should not have FAIR Elections but instead have individuals choose for all 140 million Nigerians instead?? Are you implying that an individual need not have the right to vote who he/she wants to lead him/her on the state level, and at the country level?
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Moonstone(f): 9:08pm On Feb 19, 2009
Kobojunkie:

In otherwords, you are saying the people should not be allowed to FREELY PICK who they want to govern them? We should not have FAIR Elections but instead have individuals choose for all 140 million Nigerians instead??
HELL NO! That's not what I'm saying
I want us to pick our own people but I don't want us to go back to the Military times. We have an African democracy. . . we can't have the western one because we have corrupt leaders. We need to stop comparing ourselves to them because their rules will never work for us. If anything, Westernization has brought more trouble than solutions. It's time for us to make this democracy work, that's what I'm saying
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Kobojunkie: 9:13pm On Feb 19, 2009
Moonstone:

HELL NO! That's not what I'm saying
I want us to pick our own people but I don't want us to go back to the Military times. We have an African democracy. . . we can't have the western one because we have corrupt leaders.

Apparently, I still need to understand what the difference between African Democracy and Western Democracy is then. What exactly is the difference? What do we have now? Definitely not Western; so why is western bad for us again?

We have only TRIED adopting democracy only in the last 10 years but because we still have a lot of problems carried over from the last government system, we are still to get democracy working in the country; people’s votes still do not count for much; elected officials are still not held accountable for their actions in office and after; the police system still has yet to disconnect from the old way it was during federal rule; the judicial system is still caught in the old system, so I don’t understand how one can definitely say DEMOCRACY does not work for us, when we have yet to try it.

Another thing is I note your reason for us not needing WESTERN democracy is because we have corrupt leaders? Why do we want to choose to continue to have corrupt leaders and then instead tweak our democracy to accommodate them? Why not get rid of them completely and then have WESTERN democracy if good in the end? I mean why argue that we should continue to cater to the number of corrupt and ethnocentrically minded individuals who continue to play on the emotions and weaknesses of the people in that country to get their deeds done?

Moonstone:

We need to stop comparing ourselves to them because their rules will never work for us. If anything, Westernization has brought more trouble than solutions. It's time for us to make this democracy work, that's what I'm saying

How are we comparing ourselves to them when you agree that we ought to allow each of the 140 million people in the country to vote freely, who he/she wants to be leader?

What rules exist in the western world that would not work in Nigeria? Now I know for sure there are rules that go against cultural ideologies, but those aside, what rules exist in the west that would NEVER work for us NOW in Nigeria. How exactly has westernization brought more trouble than solutions? Please elaborate.
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Moonstone(f): 9:19pm On Feb 19, 2009
Kobojunkie, you are asking for very detailed answers and I'll give you those when I leave my place of work. I am coming back to answer those questions.
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Sauron1: 9:32pm On Feb 19, 2009
lucabrasi:

while you are totally right,isnt the reasons obvious?few examples

Ok. . . .



when guys/sugar daddies go clubbing in nigeria,its easy to entice girls with a few thousands because of poverty,they cant do the same here not because british girls dont have lose morals but because they have every basic need,you can walk into a mercedes dealership and drive any car you want out,my neighbour who is a taxi driver just got the latest 2008 s class, imagine one nigerian governor telling his wife to come take a ride in his s class?

The Master-Slave mentality applies. . . . . The rich man in Nigeria is the master while the gurls in the club see themselves as the slave.
Being a master does not come with power alone, cash comes into play too. What drives the rich sugar daddy to feel dominant in such environment also drives the gurls to feel recessive. Whatever he wants, we must give. tongue tongue tongue tongue


sir alex fergusson wouldnt drive around in nigeria because its not safe for him,and the banker in nigeria is doing so because of the added stress of 8 hrs hold up,cheap labour as a result of poverty e.t.c

Are you sure safety is the reason people employ drivers in Nigeria??
How does safety apply here when Ferguson himself will be in the car with the driver?? He still faces the same risk, driver or not.


lets be honest,how many times have you gotten home and wished there was someone to cook for you because you r too tired,you think white poeple dont love these perks like drivers,househelps if not for the cost?

People get used to stuffs like that. . . . .But as soon as you realise no one else would do it, you man up and get things done.
For us Nigerians, we have been programmed over the decades to have people do things for us.
Just like we expect God to change JAMB results that have already been marked, match results, etc. grin grin


a nanny in the middle class to above average income areas earn about 200pounds at least per day
imagine how much a driver would earn,
how old is russel brand and he has a full time driver?the australian paparazzi guy has a full time driver,there are many celebs in uk not hollywood who have drivers,are they suffering from ranka dede mentality too?

Russell Brand is weird and his case can be identified as one in a million. . . . .
U stay in the UK, don't you?? Look at the number of top executives using public transport everyday!!!
Majority of em top directors use London Underground everyday without hassles. Ask Raymond Dopkesi to use the Molue and watch him wince. grin grin


the point im trying to make with all my preamble is simply that,if the focus is on practicing democracy the way it should be,we wouldnt have all these issues,and advocating for an alternative form of democracy when we have not been sucessful in one we have been grappling with for well over 40 years is a recipe for disaster, a country like cuba can have a referendum or whatever to argue for an against communism,even venezuela to an extent because they have had some form of sucess in the form of governance they r using.

So we should stick to the same recipe that has failed us for gazillion years??
There has to be a change. . . . .It's either we get it right once and for all OR we seek an alternative method.
Letz face it. . . the mentality of our leaders can never change. They are not even ready to relinquish power let alone expect the youths to make a change.
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by debosky(m): 11:10pm On Feb 19, 2009
Busy_body:

The only reason they are crying foul is because Mugabe is no longer willing to dance to their tune, do you really think they'd give a hoot if he remained for a further 60 years if he hadn't stepped on their toes by sending the farmers packing wink


If you are talking about African kings, Queen Elizabeth nko, how long has she and her family been there feeding off the taxpayers cheesy
You miss my point dear. Let's look at it this way. The 'forces that be' were supporting him before. They stopped supporting him and he is STILL there, IMPOSING himself on his people. Is the current sit tight policy now as a result of 'foreign power backing'??

He is exhibiting an African trait of sitting tight as a ruler to impose his will on the people. This is not about Western Powers supporting him or perpetuating his rule.

Outside Africa, western powers support free market policies in South America, yet Brasil is democratic and changing presidents as it wills, but Venezuela has a leader bent on perpetuating himself. What world leader is holding him up?

We need to stop making excuses for bad leadership by saying others foisted it upon us. In 2009 with all the 'education' we claim to have, it is still the UK's fault that Nigeria has bad leadership? Madeline Albright and Abiola?? ROTFLMAO!!

Eliza has little or no political power, she's a figure head sitting pretty in B'ham Palace. Completely different situation.
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by Busybody2(f): 11:18pm On Feb 19, 2009
Moonstone:

Kobojunkie, you are asking for very detailed answers and I'll give you those when I leave my place of work. I am coming back to answer those questions.


Person go open thread, Kobojunkie would now come and say that is not the right question and pose her own 1001 questions to replace it grin grin grin You can set your watch by her grin

J-girl, hurry up and get home quickly and don't forget your journal, this is one question and answer session I do not want to miss cheesy Who no know go know today lipsrsealed
Re: Western Style Democracy: Really The Answer For Africa? by bawomolo(m): 11:27pm On Feb 19, 2009
but the U.S. was a strong, notable nation even back in historical times

the US was bankrupt after the revolutionary war. even the French didn't believe the US would last as a state.

lucabrasi - China has loosened a bit compared to the cultural revolution. it's collectivist policies have switched to capitalism. Idiagbon tried to turn Nigerians into robots rather than changing their orientation.

No continent has had to deal with the amount of trauma that we as a continent has been through.

Asian countries have suffered too. has Naija gone through the horrors a country like Pakistan or Afghanistan have faced? people need to learn democracy is a working process before bailing on it. Rather than abandoning democracy, you can tweak it till it works. I would say the systems in Australia or Canada would fit Nigeria

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