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The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries - Politics (2) - Nairaland

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Buhari Names New Federal Permanent Secretaries And Their Portfolios / Buhari Orders Mass Retirement Of Permanent Secretaries / “I Don’t Know Why People Are Anxious For Ministers” – Buhari (2) (3) (4)

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Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by UnknownT: 2:17pm On Jun 29, 2015
I heard(don't know how true) that Aregbesola has been running the State of Osun without any Commissioners and as we can see, the state is well run wink . Buhari should meet him to learn how he has been able to do that lipsrsealed grin

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Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by AbuMaryam1(m): 2:19pm On Jun 29, 2015
barcanista:
[b]I don't think it is proper to allow the President appoint his cabinet "when he wants".[b/] It however should be when it is appropriate- and that technically was from May 30, 2015. Every serious government all over the act almost immediately after coming to power because the business of Governance is so important that vacuum is never encouraged. Meanwhile, how can Buhari properly appreciate the state of every sector without his ministers? The civil servants and non career DGs and MDs will always try to mask their tracks. You need a minister to go there, critically look and evaluate the state of the MDAs under his ministry and advice the President properly. The country without minister is always on standstill and in retrogression.

Nothing is wrong as much it doesn't contradict constitutional provision. If circumstances doesn't warrant it to act that way it became imperative to look for an alternative way to build a strong institutions. Considering the situation PMB's inherited the govt we are comfortable with every moves he makes, including building helipad in Daura, and transferring Boko Haram prisoners to Anambra prison. grin

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Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by ApexTitan(m): 2:21pm On Jun 29, 2015
barcanista:
Bros, the so-called "100 days" wait is alien to the law. Serious leaders take less that 3-5days to appoint cabinet members. In fact, I can list more than 10 of such.

His delay is in bad form and it certainly isn't confidence inspiring but it is not illegal or unconstitutional. Let the Baba exercise his prerogative for now.

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Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by EasternPride: 2:25pm On Jun 29, 2015
barcanista:
The best for the country should be Separation.


Fixed.

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Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by Nobody: 2:34pm On Jun 29, 2015
UnknownT:
I heard(don't know how true) that Aregbesola has been running the State of Osun without any Commissioners and as we can see, the state is well run wink . Buhari should meet him to learn how he has been able to do that lipsrsealed grin
Àregbe in his first term went on a 7-months streak without commissioner. Let's ask HzRF

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Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by Nobody: 2:39pm On Jun 29, 2015
ApexTitan:


His delay is in bad form and it certainly isn't confidence inspiring but it is not illegal or unconstitutional. Let the Baba exercise his prerogative for now.
You just admitted that the non nomination of ministers is in "bad for and uninspiring". Isn't it proper for you to clamour for him to appoint ministers? Should we endure for a government to function without ministers for 4years just because "it is not illegal"? Without the Minister who will counter- sign contracts of the Tender board? Who will formulate policies? What happens to all sectors of the economy? What happens to investors? What happens to Fiscal policies? Will Buhari perform all the roles?

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Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by HzRF(m): 2:50pm On Jun 29, 2015
barcanista:
Àregbe in his first term went on a 7-months streak without commissioner. Let's ask HzRF
Yes u are right
I can't remember the exact month but almost a yr

D commissioner list back den was been drafted at the burdilion
Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by HzRF(m): 2:59pm On Jun 29, 2015
AbuMaryam1:
@ Op, remember destruction is one touch, while construction takes time. Your explanations are valid, bear it on mind PDP govt has brought this country to kneel. With the financial crisis inherited from Otueke Dullard you don't need to be a professor to know it will take time to fix this country.
So buhari was studying the situation in Sudan

Wen he promised to hit the ground running?
Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by Nobody: 3:01pm On Jun 29, 2015
HzRF:

Yes u are right
I can't remember the exact month but almost a yr

D commissioner list back den was been drafted at the burdilion
I could recall someone sued Aregbe to court as at then.
HzRF:

So buhari was studying the situation in Sudan
Wen he promised to hit the ground running?
What they are saying is that Buhari is learning on the job
Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by MabraO: 3:04pm On Jun 29, 2015
Barcanista u am surprised ur bride hasn't applauded u on this thread for a job well done

@topic
I didn't read the topic which states buhari doesn't need ministers wen he has Pm's
But d little I know from wot is happening is, he (buhari) never said he wouldn't appoint ministers he is only waiting on the NASS to ok his ministerial list then everything falls In line

One thing I know which is for sure is no matter who he appoints as minsters u d opposition will still rain curses on him
I wish we gave Jonadaf.t this kind of threat meant at the earlier stage things wouldn't be been this bad

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Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by Nobody: 3:09pm On Jun 29, 2015
MabraO:
Barcanista u am surprised ur bride hasn't applauded u on this thread for a job well done

@topic
I didn't read the topic which states buhari doesn't need ministers wen he has Pm's
But d little I know from wot is happening is, he (buhari) never said he wouldn't appoint ministers he is only waiting on the NASS to ok his ministerial list then everything falls In line

One thing I know which is for sure is no matter who he appoints as minsters u d opposition will still rain curses on him
I wish we gave Jonadaf.t this kind of threat meant at the earlier stage things wouldn't be been this bad
Which Ministerial list is he waiting for NASS to "okay"? Has he sent any list or drafted any to NASS? Am I dreaming?


As for your other rants, I won't honor you with response. Buhari is the President.
Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by HzRF(m): 3:10pm On Jun 29, 2015
barcanista:
I could recall someone sued Aregbe to court as at then.

Presently no commissioner Nd we understand

His office nw use generator Cuz IBDEC has disconnected abere (osun secretariat) from tramission line they even went with the fuse(s)
Since the past 2+months

What they are saying is that Buhari is learning on the job[/quote]


Don't mind them they radiate hypocrisy all year round
Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by Nobody: 3:16pm On Jun 29, 2015
HzRF:

Presently no commissioner Nd we understand

His office nw use generator Cuz IBDEC has disconnected abere (osun secretariat) from tramission line they even went with the fuse(s)
Since the past 2+months

What they are saying is that Buhari is learning on the job


Don't mind them they radiate hypocrisy all year round
No Commissioner? Awwwwwwww?
Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by MabraO: 3:16pm On Jun 29, 2015
barcanista:
Which Ministerial list is he waiting for NASS to "okay"? Has he sent any list or drafted any to NASS? Am I dreaming?


As for your other rants, I won't honor you with response. Buhari is the President.


Nigeria is the most difficult nation to ever please nothing u do pleases them do am not surprised
Wot I will say patience
U can't use 30days to restructure wot was destroyed in 16year I.e 5,840days all he asked for was 1,460days

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Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by Nobody: 3:22pm On Jun 29, 2015
MabraO:



Nigeria is the most difficult nation to ever please nothing u do pleases them do am not surprised
Wot I will say patience
U can't use 30days to restructure wot was destroyed in 16year I.e 5,840days all he asked for was 1,460days
So what does this has to do with ministerial appointment? Can you restructure without ministers? Please go read the op again
Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by HzRF(m): 3:24pm On Jun 29, 2015
barcanista:
No Commissioner? Awwwwwwww?
He has dissolve every board
All his commissioner:none has been retained or any new 1 appointed

Osun is more broke than broke itself
Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by AbuMaryam1(m): 3:25pm On Jun 29, 2015
HzRF:

So buhari was studying the situation in Sudan

Wen he promised to hit the ground running?
Which one is this?

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Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by Nobody: 3:33pm On Jun 29, 2015
HzRF:

He has dissolve every board
All his commissioner:none has been retained or any new 1 appointed

Osun is more broke than broke itself
haba, no wonder nothing is working. How can there be progress without seasoned administrators manning various ministries and parastatals?

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Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by HzRF(m): 3:41pm On Jun 29, 2015
barcanista:
haba, no wonder nothing is working. How can there be progress without seasoned administrators manning various ministries and parastatals?
Mind u
They are nt NGO members
Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by Nobody: 3:52pm On Jun 29, 2015
HzRF:

Mind u
They are nt NGO members
They can take pay-cut na
Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by ApexTitan(m): 4:07pm On Jun 29, 2015
barcanista:
You just admitted that the non nomination of ministers is in "bad for and uninspiring". Isn't it proper for you to clamour for him to appoint ministers? Should we endure for a government to function without ministers for 4years just because "it is not illegal"? Without the Minister who will counter- sign contracts of the Tender board? Who will formulate policies? What happens to all sectors of the economy? What happens to investors? What happens to Fiscal policies? Will Buhari perform all the roles?

I'm not clamouring for Buhari to appoint ministers just yet, I'm adopting a wait and see approach first. It's still early days, if after a few more weeks and we are still here then I'll agree with you that things are in a bad state and that the Baba doesn't know what he is doing.

We all have to assume the position of tactical and constructive criticism. The time to cry wolf may well come but right now any cries will easily be dismissed as that of an unreasonable man.

For now let's be vigilant and continue watching the man.

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Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by HzRF(m): 4:35pm On Jun 29, 2015
barcanista:
They can take pay-cut na
U don't get it

No money for the pay cut
Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by biafranqueen: 4:41pm On Jun 29, 2015
Great write up barcanista! So are those departments still open and functioning with no director? Who is managing the oil and mines ministry as the revenue comes in? So does that mean the workers are being paid to wait around for The President to make up his mind?

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Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by Nobody: 5:30pm On Jun 29, 2015
biafranqueen:
Great write up barcanista! So are those departments still open and functioning with no director? Who is managing the oil and mines ministry as the revenue comes in? So does that mean the workers are being paid to wait around for The President to make up his mind?
My dear, these are questions that Buhari and his handlers need to answer. As it is now, Buhari is the Supervising Minister of all Ministries, Agencies and Departments. Now tell me how he can be able to function?

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Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by Nobody: 5:38pm On Jun 29, 2015
This APC guys are something else ,worse than a tyrant ,a year into AreGBESE 1st tenure he didn't appoint any commissioner and Board Chairman.same as his current unfortunate 2nd term .We have been deceived by voting this party on the.bigger platform,we have to deal and live with the Hues,Scream abd Tears till maybe 2019

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Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by adconline(m): 5:38pm On Jun 29, 2015
AbuMaryam1:
Nigeria is better without ministers for 6ms than PDP 16yrs without anything to show.
Stupidity inked in ur DNA! But APC governors have commissioners that are equivalent to ministers on federal level
Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by Nobody: 5:41pm On Jun 29, 2015
TRADEMARK:
This APC guys are something else ,worse than a tyrant ,a year into AreGBESE 1st tenure he didn't appoint any commissioner and Board Chairman.same as his current unfortunate 2nd term .We have been deceived by voting this party on the.bigger platform,we have to deal and live with the Hues,Scream abd Tears till maybe 2019
It only amounts to ignorance for any public officer to think that he can achieve anything without cabinet members. No wonder Osun state under Aregbe is in a mess
Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by tobtap: 5:45pm On Jun 29, 2015
barcanista:
This article is in response to a topic created on Saturday, June 27, 2015 titled What Is The Need Of Minister When We Have Permanent Secretaries. The purpose of the thread was to justify the delay of ministerial appointment by the government of President Muhammadu Buhari

On the said Thread many respondents were of the opinion that there is no need for ministers when we have career permanent secretaries manning various ministries. But is this really so?
Let us critically look into the subject.

1. Job Role
The Permanent secretary in a ministry is the Chief Executive of that ministry. He's the Accounting Officer and most senior civil servant within the ministry. He does not formulate strategic policies of the government but he only execute operational plans of the government in power.
The Minister on the other hand is a non career civil servant that is employed by the government in power to formulate strategic policies for a specified sector. In addition to this, he supervises ALL the non-Ministerial Departments that falls within the sector.

2. Scope
The scope of the permanent secretary in a ministry is only restricted within his ministry.
The Minister on the other hand is not only confined to the supervision of his "ministry", he also supervises Department and Agencies that comes with his office as minister on behalf of the President. For instance, the Minister of Transport supervises both the Ministry of Transport, NIMASSA, Nigeria Railway Corporation(NRC), Nigeria Ports Authority, Nigeria Shippers Council, Maritime Academy of Nigeria etc. The DGs or CEOs of the non-Ministerial Parastatals formulates and implements operational policies (as approved by the various boards) which must be in line with that of the Minister's strategic policy of the government. The perm-sec has no such power.

3. Representation:
Constitutionally, each state must have a minister who is nominated and appointed by the President subject to the approval of the Senate. Each minister sits on the Federal Executive Council and they represent their respective states in the Council. The President and the Vice represent the entire federation.
The Perm-sec on the other hand do not have such constitutional defined representation.

4. Is The "Minister" Ceremonial?
Absolutely not! The minister is a politician that understands and believes in the overall goal of the President. He is hired by the President to formulate policies (subject to approval of the president and Federal Executive Council), and then he ensures that these policies and programs of the FG/President are implemented by his Permanent Secretary, DGs and MDs of Agencies under his supervision. He also ensures that policies and programs that are executed by these MDAs under his supervision are in tandem. For instance, the Petroleum Minister is to ensure that the contracts approved by the Ministerial Tender board (Headed by the Perm-sec) are in tandem with the government laid down rules. He must counter sign it to show government's approval. Also, the Petroleum Minister by law is to ensure that policies of the Executive Management of NNPC are to be in line with wish of the government in power. In addition to this, he receives petitions against any Executive staff and Board Chairman/Members of non-ministerial agency within his supervision on behalf of the President. He also advises the President on the best way to address such petition.

Can The Permanent Secretary Function As Minister?
Absolutely Negative! The Permanent Secretary within a ministry cannot supervise the CEO/DG that is under the ministry's supervision. He has no business with policy formulation on behalf of the government. He's not aligned to any political party and he's not hired by the President but by the Civil service. The President can fire any erring minister over non performance or based on any slightest issue or non issue, but he can't fire the perm-sec over "poor performance". The worst he can do is to redeploy the perm-sec in line with the civil service rules. The Perm-sec can only leave the civil service on voluntary/mandatory retirement, death or based on any offence that stipulate the wield stick as punishment.

Nigeria Situation Without Ministers
The situation that we are in under Buhari means that there is nobody to formulate policies for and on behalf of the FG in line with the "Change" of the Buhari's administration. It also means that nobody to supervise ministries, agencies and departments which give room for theft and mismanagement of public funds by civil servants. It means that the public won't be able to experience any policy change anytime soon. It means that the President will dish out "orders" as the spirit directs without analysing core factors. It also means that permanent secretaries and DG/CEOs of Agencies will act in accordance with existing rule aka Auto-Pilot.

Finally, Nigeria is not the first and only country to practice political cabinet Minister in addition to perm-secs of ministries. The Nigeria equivalent of career civil servants perm-sec in the UK is Permanent Under Secretary(PUS), Italy call theirs Secretary-General, Canada (Deputy Minister), Australia (Secretary), USA (Deputy Secretary) etc. All these countries still have cabinet ministers that are incharge with policies and supervision.

I hope we all understand that there is NO WAY President Buhari can effectively bring change without ministers.


God Bless Us All
well....i dont agree with the OP often...but i think we need ministers at the moment...president and vp can do it alone....cheers
Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by leo2020: 5:45pm On Jun 29, 2015
Another ministerial noise from an ijaw man...
Re: The Need For Ministers Despite Existing Career Permanent Secretaries by AutoCarTracker(m): 5:46pm On Jun 29, 2015
There is never a rule of law to follow

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