9jacrip:




It used to go round in turns until Olubuse II.

Derin Ologbenla was Giesi
Olubuse I was Ogboru
Ademiluyi was Lafogido
Adekola was from Osinkola but died before ascending the throne which brought in Aderemi also from Osinkola.

The turn was supposed to go back to Giesi but whatever intrigue that happened saw Ogboru taking Giesi's turn with Olubuse II. And now, Giesi takes this available turn.

This is not to say a house does not get skipped if they are unable to produce a Prince of patrilineal 'blood' or Ifa rejects their nominee.

So, Sir, it is not thrown open to all the houses, it is by the turns.


Going further back before Derin Ologbenla:

Ojigidiri Osinkola
Akinmoyero Lafogido
Gbanlare Ogboru
Gbegbaaje Giesi
Wunmonije Lafogido
Abewela Lafogido
Orayigba Giesi

Then why do we have the bolded sir if it is going round in turns. Also Adekola(not crowned) was just before Ademiluyi.

Ojigidiri lambua Osinkola
Akinmoyero Lafogido
Gbanlare Ogboru
[b]Gbegbaaje Giesi
Wunmonije Lafogido
Abewela Lafogido
Orayigba Giesi
Derin Ologbenla was Giesi
Olubuse I was Ogboru
Ademiluyi was Lafogido
Aderemi Osinkola


from the above, we can deduce
Osinkola: 2
Ogboru: 2
Lafogido: 4
Giesi: 3

This does't look like rotation to me though.

I also heard from the ''agbas'' of how Adekola was killed but i don't want to believe that. Something about a queen that turned into well in the palace and that all ooni elect have to cross over that well. kind of ''sunlopo''. Not sure if you have heard about that and if it's really true.

saxywale:

Then why do we have the bolded sir if it is going round in turns. Also Adekola was just before Ademiluyi.

Adekola was picked but did not ascend the throne, he died before he could. Hence, it was still the family's turn with Ademiluyi (pardon my mistake of writing Aderemi instead of Ademiluyi).


If you follow the trend, you'd see Lafogido has produced Ooni more with Giesi following closely.

And the part of my post you embolded shows it was still in rotation, hence Lafogido or Giesi could have kept producing the Ooni back to back.

The other two ruling houses only began to produce the Ooni in recent times and keep in mind that apart from not being able to produce a candidate from the male line or what Ifa says.

Other factors considered include: the Ooniship-style history of the ruling house, their recurrent socio-political leaning (Modakeke), the state of the Ife land.

If it was not in rotation then why did each house produce an Ooni in turns since Derin Ologbenla till Olubuse II usurped the Giesi's turn (which had many Ife saying he was not supposed to occupy the throne).

saxywale:
I also heard from the ''agbas'' of how Adekola was killed but i don't want to believe that. Something about a queen that turned into well in the palace and that all ooni elect have to cross over that well. kind of ''sunlopo''. Not sure if you have heard about that and if it's really true.

Yes, I have heard of the well.

I have been wondering what could have happened to Adekola, maybe he was killed.

What I heard about the well is that you could enter it and come out from another part of Ife. Sort of like a passage for the Oonis hundred years back since they could not be seen in public.

saxywale:

Then why do we have the bolded sir if it is going round in turns. Also Adekola(not crowned) was just before Ademiluyi.

Ojigidiri lambua Osinkola
Akinmoyero Lafogido
Gbanlare Ogboru
[b]Gbegbaaje Giesi
Wunmonije Lafogido
Abewela Lafogido
Orayigba Giesi
Derin Ologbenla was Giesi
Olubuse I was Ogboru
Ademiluyi was Lafogido
Aderemi Osinkola


from the above, we can deduce
Osinkola: 2
Ogboru: 2
Lafogido: 4
Giesi: 3

This does't look like rotation to me though.

From the above starting from Ojigidiri to Gbegba-aje, there was rotation.

Then from Derin Ologbenla to Aderemi there was rotation.

What I deduce is that there is rotation but a pattern of what seems like a break in this rotation at intervals.

9jacrip:



1. Adekola was picked but did not ascend the throne, he died before he could. Hence, it was still the family's turn with Ademiluyi (pardon my mistake of writing Aderemi instead of Ademiluyi).


2. If you follow the trend, you'd see Lafogido has produced Ooni more with Giesi following closely. And the part of my post you embolded shows it was still in rotation, hence Lafogido or Giesi could have kept producing the Ooni back to back.


3. The other two ruling houses only began to produce the Ooni in recent times and keep in mind that apart from not being able to produce a candidate from the male line or what Ifa says.


4. Other factors considered include: the Ooniship-style history of the ruling house, their recurrent socio-political leaning (Modakeke), the state of the Ife land.

5. If it was not in rotation then why did each house produce an Ooni in turns since Derin Ologbenla till Olubuse II usurped the Giesi's turn (which had many Ife saying he was not supposed to occupy the throne).

1. Adekola Gbadebo was Oshinkola and not Lafogido.

2. If that is the case, then with rotation in place, one house would have just a number above the rest i.e the other playing catch up. a rotation in place would be something like the ratio 1:1:1:1, 2:1:1:1 , 2:2:1:1, 2:2:2:1, 2:2:2:2. So if by rotation, there is no way a ruling house would produce an Ooni back to back or have so much more Ooni as in the case of Lafogido and Giesi that have produced circa 7 and 6 Ooni respectively.

3. Also, both Oshinkola and Giesi produced one Ooni each before recent times, i.e before Ojigidiri Lambua and Gbegbaaje.

4. The modakeke tussle only started during or just after the Kiriji war, i.e 19th century.

5. I could as well ask why it looked like this if there was indeed a rotation: Abi Ifa is partial ni. Even before recent times, the rotation had only chosen Oshinkola and Ogboru Once!
Gbegbaaje Giesi
Wunmonije Lafogido
Abewela Lafogido
Orayigba Giesi
Derin Ologbenla was Giesi
Olubuse I was Ogboru
Ademiluyi was Lafogido
Aderemi Osinkola

9jacrip:



From the above starting from Ojigidiri to Gbegba-aje, there was rotation.

Then from Derin Ologbenla to Aderemi there was rotation.

What I deduce is that there is rotation but a pattern of what seems like a break in this rotation at intervals.

The breaks are really huge and not consistent. Does that not nullify the rotation theory?

9jacrip:


Yes, I have heard of the well.

I have been wondering what could have happened to Adekola, maybe he was killed.

What I heard about the well is that you could enter it and come out from another part of Ife. Sort of like a passage for the Oonis hundred years back since they could not be seen in public.

What i was told by the agbas was that the well was laced with Magun.

saxywale:

What i was told by the agbas was that the well was laced with Magun.

Never heard of that.

saxywale:

The breaks are really huge and not consistent. Does that not nullify the rotation theory?

No because there was rotation even if between Lafogido and Giesi.

9jacrip:


No because there was rotation even if between Lafogido and Giesi.

But this rotation get as e be sha... as in the case of Lafogido and Giesi that have produced over circa 7 and 6 Ooni respectively. While The other two have produced circa 2 and 3. Ifa just keeps skipping Oshinkola and Ogboru despite the rotation in place

saxywale:

Adekola Gbadebo was Oshinkola and not Lafogido.

If that is the case, then with rotation in place, one house would have just a nummber above the rest i.e the other playing catch up. a rotation in place would be something like 1:1:1:1, 2:1:1:1 , 2:2:1:1, 2:2:2:1, 2:2:2:2. So if by rotation, there is no way a ruling house would produce an Ooni back to back.

Also, both Oshinkola and Giesi produced one Ooni each before recent times, i.e before Ojigidiri Lambua and Gbebgaaje.

My post said he was Osinkola.

I'm aware Osinkola and Giesi produced Ooni but their 'catch-up' appears to have been in recent times.

If there was no rotation, with the many branches of surnames within one ruling house then I do not see what stops say Lafogido which has produced 8 Oonis so far from producing 20 Oonis back to back. It cannot be so bad that Ifa will reject all or they are all of maternal line. So, my brother, there was rotation in place but families could get skipped.

And also, Giesi house will not be the focus of the Kingmakers in Ife right now. The Ogboru, Lafogido and Osinkola Princes should be going up and down right now but they are all laid back letting Giesi do their thing but Ifa may decide the Giesi Ooni is not yet born - it is that simple.

saxywale:


But this rotation get as e be sha... as in the case of Lafogido and Giesi that have produced over circa 7 and 6 Ooni respectively. While The other two have produced circa 2 and 3. Ifa just keeps skipping Oshinkola and Ogboru despite the rotation in place

No, 8 and 7 respectively.

Lafogido: Lafogido, Dejinle, Olojo, Osinlade,
Akinmoyero, Wunmonije,
Abewela (the line is banned) and Ademiluyi.

Giesi: Giesi, Agbedegbede,
Ajila, Gbegba-aje, Orayigba
Degbin, and Derin Ologbenla

Ogboru: 4

Osinkola 5

If it was thrown open to all then why does it keep going between Lafogido and Giesi? Why not Lafogido or Giesi producing 10 Oonis back to back? Seems like some sort of rotation to me.

9jacrip:


My post said he was Osinkola.

I'm aware Osinkola and Giesi produced Ooni but their 'catch-up' appears to have been in recent times.

If there was no rotation, with the many branches of surnames within one ruling house then I do not see what stops say Lafogido which has produced 8 Oonis so far from producing 20 Oonis back to back. It cannot be so bad that Ifa will reject all or they are all of maternal line. So, my brother, there was rotation in place but families could get skipped.

And also, Giesi house will not be the focus of the Kingmakers in Ife right now. The Ogboru, Lafogido and Osinkola Princes should be going up and down right now but they are all laid back letting Giesi do their thing but Ifa may decide the Giesi Ooni is not yet born - it is that simple.

They both produced one Ooni each in ancient times i.e Oshinkola and Giesi ( origin of their family names) though.
The other three houses are not actually lid back. Alot of them are simply respecting the tradition by not turning the tussle to a political campaign as can be seen with D. Aderemi and some giesi that have taken over the media.

saxywale:

They both produced one Ooni each in ancient times i.e Oshinkola and Giesi ( origin of their family names) though.
The other three houses are not actually lid back. Alot of them are simply respecting the tradition by not turning the tussle to a political campaign as can be seen with D. Aderemi and some giesi that have taken over the media.

I'm aware of the emboldened, I'm only referring to their recent catch up in recent times considering it has been a back and forth between Lafogido and Giesi mostly.

Giesi is in the media because it is their turn. I do not see what is stopping the Ogboru who just vacated the throne from taking over the media considering their man just left and they still have the 'connect' to get the throne again.

What Obalufe and the chiefs consider is the ability of the house to produce a consensus candidate (s), a failure which leads to skipping to a house that seems to have itself in order. Selecting a candidate in a house with branches is usually filled with drama and test of 'charms' on themselves LOL which delays or makes the house unable to present anyone in the long run - bro, na serious business o and most would rather not engage in the tussle than take the risk.

9jacrip:


No, 8 and 7 respectively.

Lafogido: Lafogido, Dejinle, Olojo, Osinlade,
Akinmoyero, Wunmonije,
Abewela (the line is banned) and Ademiluyi.

Giesi: Giesi, Agbedegbede,
Ajila, Gbegba-aje, Orayigba
Degbin, and Derin Ologbenla

Ogboru: 4

Osinkola 5

If it was thrown open to all then why does it keep going between Lafogido and Giesi? Why not Lafogido or Giesi producing 10 Oonis back to back? Seems like some sort of rotation to me.

That's why I said ''circa'' as i wasn't sure of the exact number. I can only count 4 Oshinkolas and that is if I was to include Adekola even though he was not crowned. Based on the list and my family Oriki ( i confess, I am an Oshinkola ), Not biased though

I have Lafogifdo cousins too, and i know their oriki is longer as they have produced so many Ooni's

The only reason I can say it keeps going back to these two houses is simply the reason why we are having this discussion in the first place. Ifa seems to have been favouring them over rotation(if it exist). And the way the Giesi keeps hammering on rotation are making us all to believe that Ifa has no choice than to select only from the next ruling house(if rotation exist). Irrespective of whether Ifa finds no worthy successor to Sijuwade in that house.
Please note my ''if'' statement.lol

saxywale:

That's why I said circa as i wasnt sure of the exact number. I can only count 4 Oshinkolas and that is if i was to include Adekola even though he was not crowned. Based on the list and my family Oriki ( i confess, I am an Oshinkola )
The only reason I can say it keeps going back to these two houses is simply the reason why we are having this discussion in the first place. Ifa seems to have been favouring them over rotation. And the way the Giesi keeps hammering on rotation are making us all to believe that Ifa has no choice than to select only from the next ruling house. Irrespective of if Ifa find no worthy successor to Sijuwade.

LOL!
Eruwadaaji Oba o! Kabiyesi O! Your parents should present you if the chance ever surfaces.

I think the Giesi are louding the rotation because Ogboru muddled up the arrangement with Olubuse II.

They can even raise sign post and campaign banners, Ifa may still overlook them and go to pick in Ogboru again

If the rotation does not exist and it is thrown open then I also wonder why Ifa still keeps picking these two

9jacrip:



LOL!
Kabiyesi O! Your parents should present you if the chance every surfaces.

I think the Giesi are louding the rotation because Ogboru muddled up the arrangement with Olubuse II.

They can even raise sign post and campaign banners, Ifa may still overlook them and go to pick in Ogboru again

Me ke....I nor get the mind for all the stuffs involved ooo.i am traditionally spiritually weak. I begin fear the day my dad told me an Ooni must not look into the Ade aree and I am a very curious cat. Also, as a christian-Anglican, all the rites to be carried out before ascension is against my religious beliefs. Ifa go skip me sharply. I would even tell Ifa that I prefer my present abode. The Oshinkola's are always usually Anglican but they practice Ogboni Ibile pass any thing... .
Whichever way, i just pray and hope the Ooni elect to be a core traditionalist, one that would be out to preserve the yoruba culture and tradition. And all the contenders I have been seeing so far online look like jegudu jera including D. Aderemi.

9jacrip:




If the rotation does not exist and it is thrown open then I also wonder why Ifa still keeps picking these two

This we need to ask Ifa, like Ifa, why why why

saxywale:

Me ke....I nor get the mind for all the stuffs involved ooo.i am traditionally spiritually weak. I begin fear the day my dad told me an Ooni must not look into the Ade aree and I am a very curious cat. Also, as a christian-Anglican, all the rites to be carried out before ascension is against my religious beliefs. Ifa go skip me sharply. I would even tell Ifa that I prefer my present abode. The Oshinkola's are always usually Anglican but they practice Ogboni Ibile pass any thing... .
Whichever way, i just pray and hope the Ooni elect to be a core traditionalist, one that would be out to preserve the yoruba culture and tradition. And all the contenders I have been seeing so far online look like jegudu jera including D. Aderemi.

Yes, he is right.
An Ooni or anyone must not look inside Ade Are, that is instant death.

I hope Ifa picks you so we'd see if you'd put your adopted Anglican beliefs before that ofyour ancestors

Ife people who are from core Ife families and participate in traditional systems of their compounds are Ogboni Ibile members and they do not hide it, especially at Anglican churches in Ife. They rock their shaki to church like say Jesus sef follow dey

I do not blame the jegudu jera people o. Na precedence wey Daddy Sijuwade has created by deviating from promoting and protection tradition to promoting political and economic whatever at the personal level.

I pray we get someone who is traditional to the core, our festivals need to get back to how they are done, foolish titles given out unnecessarily need to be cancelled and stopped, Ooni should play his role as required and done at processions, rituals and festivals, an ooni that does not fly around the world but staying put in the palace making moves for the progress of Ife and her people.

saxywale:

This we need to ask Ifa, like Ifa, why why why

Werin una do Ifa sef. E just dey skip una

9jacrip:


Werin una do Ifa sef. E just dey skip una

Maybe we are too awesome for the throne

9jacrip:



Yes, he is right.
An Ooni or anyone must not look inside Ade Are, that is instant death.

I hope Ifa picks you so we'd see if you'd put your adopted Anglican beliefs before that ofyour ancestors

Ife people who are from core Ife families and participate in traditional systems of their compounds are Ogboni Ibile members and they do not hide it, especially at Anglican churches in Ife. They rock their shaki to church like say Jesus sef follow dey

I do not blame the jegudu jera people o. Na precedence wey Daddy Sijuwade has created by deviating from promoting and protection tradition to promoting political and economic whatever at the personal level.

I pray we get someone who is traditional to the core, our festivals need to get back to how they are done, foolish titles given out unnecessarily need to be cancelled and stopped, Ooni should play his role as required and done at processions, rituals and festivals, an ooni that does not fly around the world but staying put in the palace making moves for the progress of Ife and her people.

Ifa would surely skip me as I would reject it. Ifa selected Adewuyi but he passed it on to his educated younger brother, Aderemi. So it is allowed.
I don't know what the shaki is but i remember from vintage pictures of Ooni Aderemi and his brothers in a group picture, they were all rocking an ogboni ibile wrapper on their agbada, this was even before he became an Ooni. I use to see the same wrapper in some boxes at home when I was very young.
You are correct about the Sijuwade's priority. I hope things start changing again back to the way it was in the years past.

saxywale:


Maybe we are too awesome for the throne

saxywale:

Ifa would surely skip me as I would reject it. Ifa selected Adewuyi but he passed it on to his educated younger brother, Aderemi. So it is allowed.
I don't know what the shaki is but i remember from vintage pictures of Ooni Aderemi and his brothers in a group picture, they were all rocking an ogboni ibile wrapper on their agbada, this was even before he became an Ooni. I use to see the same wrapper in some boxes at home when I was very young.
You are correct about the Sijuwade's priority. I hope things start changing again back to the way it was in the years past.

E sa fe wriggle out of being picked.

Shaki is the wrapper put across the shoulder and around the waist.

You should join it too, not bad at all.

9jacrip:


E sa fe wriggle out of being picked.

Shaki is the wrapper put across the shoulder and around the waist.

You should join it too, not bad at all.

haha..that is the same wrapper i was referring too. Their's is always across the shoulders in the pics.

I guess, as previously stated, Mr. Ademiluyi only wasted his time touring Nigeria visiting people.

I'm glad Obalufe, before he passed corrected the error of yesterday. Ki Olodumare fi orun ke, kosi pada wa ni asiko to tor.