OLAADEGBU:


Since angels are also among the cloud of witnesses, do you pray to them too?



Don't you believe the Vatican that says that you should see Mary as your co-redemptrix, co-mediatrix and advocate?



No wonder you see apparitions of the Mary you pray to.



Jesus did not command that we should break the second commandment which says that you should not make yourself any graven image. He said we should pray to the Father in His own name. Anything more than that is stretching the truth.

1. Don't change the subject... I never told you angels are part of the cloud of witnesses.. Hebrew 11 doesn't mention any angels... but if you want to know.. angels also have an intercessory function.. see rev 8 and mat 18..

2. Again i see you are trying to bring up another issue... focus on one at a time...I suggest you find out what co -redemptrix etc in the Catholic teaching mean...

3. Don't try to divert from the issue Catholics pray to the Father through Jesus... We also obey the other commands to pray for one another.. and in that vein we ask Christians in heaven to pray for us.. And since you have not been able to prove that death separates them from The Body of Christ and hence us.. you have no done anything...

No, Mary is in the grave right now, waiting to be resurrected when Christ returns. 1 Thess. 4:16-17.

DoctorAlien:
No, Mary is in the grave right now, waiting to be resurrected when Christ returns. 1 Thess. 4:16-17.

Just like Moses, or Elijah or Abel or Lazarus or the Rich man, or the martyrs etc...

easymancfc:


Just like Moses, or Elijah or Abel or Lazarus or the Rich man, or the martyrs etc...

Moses and Elijah are in Heaven. That is too plain in the Bible to be mistaken.

"Righteous Abel" is still in the grave, waiting for the resurrection of the dead in Christ. The Bible never records the resurrection of Abel. It only says of Abel that his blood cried out from the ground to GOD. GOD meant by that that the crime committed against Abel demands justice. This is also what is meant when Revelations says that souls under the altar were demanding judgment against men on earth. Of course you don't believe that righteous people pray for GOD to destroy sinners. They instead, like Jesus and Stephen, pray for GOD to forgive them.

The story of the Rich man and Lazarus is a PARABLE! Browse the meaning of the word "PARABLE". All the characters in the PARABLE ARE SYMBOLIC. Even "Abraham's bosom" symbolizes something. The PARABLE is not to be taken literally.

DoctorAlien:


Moses and Elijah are in Heaven. That is too plain in the Bible to be mistaken.

"Righteous Abel" is still in the grave, waiting for the resurrection of the dead in Christ. The Bible never records the resurrection of Abel. It only says of Abel that his blood cried out from the ground to GOD. GOD meant by that that the crime committed against Abel demands justice. This is also what is meant when Revelations says that souls under the altar were demanding judgment against men on earth. Of course you don't believe that righteous people pray for GOD to destroy sinners. They instead, like Jesus and Stephen, pray for GOD to forgive them.

The story of the Rich man and Lazarus is a PARABLE! Browse the meaning of the word "PARABLE". All the characters in the PARABLE ARE SYMBOLIC. Even "Abraham's bosom" symbolizes something. The PARABLE is not to be taken literally.

Thank You.. So at least you agree that some people are not in the grave...

Abel was not said to be resurrected just like Moses was not said to be resurrected but you agree he is in heaven..... So resurrection argument does not follow

You said his blood cried out for Justice... meaning he was not unconscious....

the Martyrs where souls under God's temple IN HEAVEN not blood from THE GRAVE... What do they both have in common... CONSCIOUSNESS...

Some characters in parables are meant to be symbolic not all...the Point Is... Are they Truth or false... If they are truth then the dead are conscious.. If they are false then Jesus is lying in a Parable... or using falsehood to teach...

Lastly all the Jews as did Jesus believe in Abraham's bossom and Hades and the consciousness of the dead... that s why the parable made sense to them...

BESIDES THERE ARE MORE EXAMPLES OF SAINTS NOT IN THE GRAVE..

easymancfc:
Abel was not said to be resurrected just like Moses was not said to be resurrected but you agree he is in heaven. So resurrection argument does not follow

You said his blood cried out for Justice... meaning he was not unconscious

the Martyrs where souls under God's temple IN HEAVEN not blood from THE GRAVE... What do they both have in common... CONSCIOUSNESS

Some characters in parables are meant to be symbolic not all...the Point Is... Are they Truth or false... If they are truth then the dead are conscious.. If they are false then Jesus is lying in a Parable... or using falsehood to teach

Lastly all the Jews as did Jesus believe in Abraham's bossom and Hades and the consciousness of the dead. that s why the parable made sense to them

The blood crying out for justice is figurative, because the blood wasn't really crying. Revelations is filled with symbols. I know it's hard to grasp. But never think the Jews misunderstood Jesus' parable like you do.

DoctorAlien:
The blood crying out for justice is figurative, because the blood wasn't really crying. Revelations is filled with symbols. I know it's hard to grasp. But never think the Jews misunderstood Jesus' parable like you do.

Indeed bro... the blood was symbolic... Again I agree with you... Revelation is symbolic...
but the point is.. Whether blood or Souls the point is the entity of the person was conscious... asking God for vengeance is a conscious activity whether we interprete the surrounding as symbolic or not...

You are the one who misunderstands Jesus... even before the time of Jesus Jews have believed in Abraham's bossom as the abode for the righteous dead and Hades or Gehenna as the abode for the wicked just as Jesus explained in the parable... and that the dead there are conscious.. just like Jesus said they were... and I can prove it with scripture and history... So no I didn't misunderstand the parable... I understand it the way Jesus and the Jews did..

DoctorAlien:
No, Mary is in the grave right now, waiting to be resurrected when Christ returns. 1 Thess. 4:16-17.

My brother,
So true...and I hope you continue in the faith....courageously.
Not stalking you....just encouraging you to be a soldier of God's truth....regardless

MsNgo40:



My brother,
So true...and I hope you continue in the faith....courageously.
Not stalking you....just encouraging you to be a soldier of God's truth....regardless

Thank you so much. I am encouraged by your words. May GOD continue to bless you.

easymancfc:


1. Don't change the subject... I never told you angels are part of the cloud of witnesses.. Hebrew 11 doesn't mention any angels... but if you want to know.. angels also have an intercessory function.. see rev 8 and mat 18..

Was it not you that quoted the verse I bolded below?

easymancfc:


1. My dear friend, Argument from silence doesn't work here...
secondly the bible tells us to ask for one another's intercession, it doesn't specify that living should pray for the living only... In fact it says that we all as members of the body of Christ need each other (1 cor 12:21) and that death doesn't separate us from Christ meaning we can't be separated from his body either (Romans 8:38)...

Besides that the Bible expressly tells us that we have come to "the dead in Christ" so how can we be cut off from them if we have "come to them" just like God and Jesus..

Hebrews 12: 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering,23 and to the assembly of the FIRST-BORN who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE perfect, 24 and to Jesus,

So have all of them..

I ask again, why would you want to pray to angels?

easymancfc:


2. Again i see you are trying to bring up another issue... focus on one at a time...I suggest you find out what co -redemptrix etc in the Catholic teaching mean...

Why don't you tell me what you mean by a co-redemptrix and co-mediatrix if that is not what our Lord Jesus is doing alone.

easymancfc:


3. Don't try to divert from the issue Catholics pray to the Father through Jesus... We also obey the other commands to pray for one another.. and in that vein we ask Christians in heaven to pray for us.. And since you have not been able to prove that death separates them from The Body of Christ and hence us.. you have no done anything...

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

Neither Jesus nor His Apostles told us to pray through any other person either in earth or in heaven for there is only one name given to us and that is the name Jesus, anything more than that is idolatory.

OLAADEGBU:
Can Mary hear our prayers? Can Mary or any of the dead saints hear our prayers?

"Can Mary hear our prayers?"

There is nothing in the Bible that says that Mary can simultaneously hear the prayers of people all over the world.

See more at http://ow.ly/cioe50JXLz2