Maj. Gen. Ishola Williams may have no answer to the Nigeria’s myriad of problems, but he is full of wisdom and offers a direct and practical approach to problems. He retired from the Nigerian army long ago but not without making news twice.

First, he walked out on the army and General Sanni Abacha in 1993 saying that the army takeover of the government was immoral. Second was when he as a colonel questioned a chief of army staff.

General Williams, presently on the faculty of the Pan African Strategic and Policy Research Group (PASPRG), speaks to Naij.com’s correspondent in Abuja, Olajide Adelana, on the present Nigerian military, the fight against insurgency and President Buhari’s willingness to negotiate with Boko Haram.

Naij.com: How would you describe the present Nigerian army compared to the one you left behind over 20 years ago?

Ishola Williams: You must be a clown for asking me that. I left the army 30 years ago, I don’t know how old you were. If you leave an organization 30 years ago, you can only be observing it outside. Now, what you do realize is that the military, is supposed to be an instrument of political power. They are so dependent on political authority. Therefore if they are going to do what they are supposed to do in respect to what the constitution has mandated them to do, then the political authority must give them the wherewithal to be able to do that. What do I mean by that? First of all, there must be a strategic directive from whoever is the Commander-in-Chief. Out of that strategic directive, you can develop a sort of policy for the Armed forces itself. The Armed forces will now develop operational doctrine. Within the operational doctrine at that strategic level, the role of the Air force, Army and the Navy are spelt out and how they can work together. Once you have that, the doctrine is taken from operational level to technical level. And then when they have done that, they will now be able to know the equipment needed to implement the doctrine, the sort of structure needed, how many people needed to be able to do that, what sort of logistics support needed and so on and so forth.

Once you have determined that, you now go back to the political authority to say this is our requirement and anything you want us to do from now, we need these requirements to do them. If you remember when the immediate past Chief of Defence left, he was complaining that he was not given what he needed to be able to fight Boko Haram, but did they submit the process I just described to you to the Commander-in-Chief and they were not given what they wanted? But the Army chief came back and said we were able to do what we did at least towards the end of last year and early this year because we were given what we needed. So we don’t know who to believe, the Army Chief or the Chief of Defence staff?
You will also remember that they brought in South African machineries. And with their help, the military was able to push back Boko Haram. They left and Boko Haram started gaining ground. Now we are going to form a multinational force, so let’s see what is going to happen. The new president has promised to give them anything they needed, the British has promised, the American has promised, everybody has promised to help them with equipment and everything. So, we are waiting to see what is going to happen.

Naij.com: The Peoples Democratic Party and some other stakeholders have criticized the World Bank loan obtained by the president to rebuild the northeast, saying that the loan cannot be useful at the moment as the country is still fighting in the region they want to rebuild. What is your take on this?

Ishola Williams: One thing that people have got to realize is that, if you have no secured environment development cannot take place. So, to a certain extent, you have got to reduce to the minimum the violence been perpetuated by Boko Haram. In other to do that, I have advocated that terrorism should be left to the police and let the military face Boko Haram. Now, what you find today is that the military is pursuing armed robbers. The military is mounting road blocks in Abuja, on the streets, that is not their business. They want to help them to catch bank robbers, they are doing road patrol with the police. It is not their business.

Naij.com: (Cuts in) But when the president ordered that the checkpoints be removed, you will notice there was an increase in attacks.
No, the point in this is that, what do you have the mobile police for? Are they not carrying guns? What is the difference between a soldier and a mobile policeman? Tell me, why did we train the mobile police men separately from the ordinary police?

Naij.com: (answers) To have advanced skills and other necessary expertise needed to maintain law and order.

Then let the police with the advance skills handle that and the army to handle insurgency which requires more advanced skills than the mobile police requires to be able to handle terrorism, check points, criminals, armed robbers and kidnappers. That is how they do all over the world.

Naij.com: (cuts in) In other words, are you saying you are fully in support of the loan to rebuild the northeast at this particular point in time?

Ishola Williams: To do what?

Naij.com: The loan given to us by the World Bank to rebuild the northeast, are you in support?

Ishola Williams: Now listen, this is very important because I have not been there. You see, the destruction that has taken place, the loss of lives, the internally displaced persons (IDPs), the returnees, and people in danger, they require urgent help. If not, you are going to have an increase in the number of orphaned children. Am sure they are running into thousands now. They have closed so many schools, they have closed so many health centres. Therefore what you need to do is that as soon as you liberate a place, start the development process, do not delay it. Secondly, those who have been displaced including those terrorist who have escaped from Boko Haram who say they do not want to fight again should be reconciled with their own people. The third thing is that the young people should be trained. Trained to do what? To rebuild their communities with the money the World Bank is giving them now. How do they do that? Train them as carpenters, bricklayers, this and that and that. So, the hands they used to destroy their communities, they use the same hands to rebuild their communities. The hands that destroy, can also build.

Naij.com: The president has expressed his willingness to negotiate with Boko Haram. Compared to America who has repeatedly said that they do not negotiate with terrorists, do you think Nigeria should be negotiating with Boko Haram?

Ishola Williams: There are two sides to the story. One is that one should not be too dogmatic about this administration. What is important is to flow with the situation. First of all, we need to ensure that the people who they want to negotiate with are the true leadership of Boko Haram. Two, before you start negotiating you need to deal with another issue and that issue is very important. Are you going to do reconciliation with justice? That is, you are not going to grant amnesty to those leaders (Boko Haram) for what they have perpetuated. The leaders must be able to face an internal court in Nigeria for what they have perpetuated. Or you are going to grant them amnesty and say because you have surrendered we have forgiven you all the atrocities you have committed. The government has got to decide that. Three, have a programme in place, first of all for those who are going to escape. And also when a cease-fire is in place, the boys that are going coming back, what are you going to do with them? And of course, there are also young people too, the women and children who were captured in their hundreds, what are you going to do with them? So you must have a programme in place. Those are the three things that are very necessary before you start negotiation.

But the two key ones are: one, you negotiating with the right people? Two, what is the position with respect to amnesty or no amnesty. The people expect justice for the atrocities they have committed.

Naij.com: Questioning the administration of President Buari’s termination of the pipeline surveillance contract, Asari Dokubo and his ilk, who were awarded contracts by the former administration of Goodluck Jonathan to secure the oil pipelines came out some few days ago to say they were properly awarded the contracts. Do you think the president has done the right thing by revoking this contract ‘without necessarily studying what is on ground’?

Ishola Williams: The point is this; when was the contract awarded?

Naij.com: (answers) At the twilight of the last administration but government is a …..

Ishola Williams: (Cuts in) Exactly, exactly. That is the issue. When you want to do a contract there is a process. Was the process followed? And you must go through the Bureau of Procurement for doing that. Did they get approval from the Bureau of Procurement? And so on and so forth. But my Lord, the key issue is this; what is the mandate of the civil defence and security corps? Their mandate as created by law is to protect the infrastructure. The mandate of the Navy is to protect our coastal waters. In fact the Navy is supposed to assist the marine police. So you have what it takes to protect the pipelines, so why are you awarding the contract again to civilians.

Tell me another story.

Naij.com: What is your take on the fact the president has not appointed ministers and those he will be working with, while the few he has appointed has been largely people of the northern extraction?

Ishola Williams: The Constitution allows the president to appoint anybody he believes is qualified. But you must remember one thing, we are in an ethnic based society. There is supposed to be federal character. I am giving you all these key points because they are very important. You put people who you trust, in positions of trust. If the people who you trust happen to come from your neck of wood, then because you believe they are going to get the work done and people do not really care as long as the job is done. You see, performance, efficiency and all those things do not carry any ethnic colouration. Ok, now, am also aware that he (Buhari) is also aware and you are aware that you have to follow federal character in some strictly political appointments. There are political appointments that are direct, like appointing advisers, ministers and thing like that. And there are some that are indirect. For example, chief executive of NNPC and some of these other parastatals. If you look for those who are qualified no matter the ethnic group they come from and you put them there, it is good for Nigeria. If you put people from your area who are not qualified, then that is a problem.

Naij.com: You granted an interview to a newspaper in January this year where you were asked questions about Tompolo who was rumoured to have purchased warships at that time prior to the general elections. Also, Asari Dokubo and some former Niger Delta warlords threatened that if the elections does not go the way of former President Jonathan there will be fire, bloodshed and all that. You replied in the interview that was not going to be and at the moment we have no major crisis in the Niger Delta, do you think this can actually be sustained throughout the tenure of President Buhari?

Ishola Williams: You see what people tend to forget in this issue is that before elections in Nigeria people are always crying there is going to be war, there is going to be this. Let me tell you one thing, I have not seen any young set of people who want to commit suicide. Have not seen them. What is happening in the case of Niger Delta is that they want something, they are not getting it the way they think they should be get it, so they take up guns. Sometimes, they succeed, sometimes they are killed and sometimes they are caught. Alright. It is left for them to come up with an idea rather than taking up guns. To say that, see these re concrete developmental efforts that we think is necessary in this area for us to be able to satisfy that you have our interest at heart. Let me give you an example, and am happy one governor in the Niger Delta has taken up the case. Why can’t government build or allow this people to look for money and build mini-refineries in Niger Delta? Why can’t we do that? Instead of having thugs all over the place in Niger Delta, from one refinery to another and all over Nigeria, why don’t you allow them to build mini-refineries to satisfy the requirements of the Niger Deltans. Why don’t we allow them to do that? Do you know how many people those mini-refineries will employ, directly and indirectly? Have you seen any rich man who picks up a gun to fight? Have you seen one? Why do you think people who are rich build up fence, electric wires and so and so forth? Why do you think they do that?

Giggles… Let the boys be rich and they will stop fighting!

Naij.com: Thank you very much, Sir!

Ishola Williams: Thank you, bye bye!