plaetton:

[/b]
He brought it to his wife’s attention, who forgave him, and he also sought forgiveness from God, who he said forgave him as well.

Clearly he asked for forgiveness from his wife first and was sure she had forgiven him before going to God afterwards.....

He understands that forgiveness is more in the hands of the offended than it is in Gods hand. "If you forgive people's sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." John 20:23(good news), that was Jesus telling his disciples.

And there's something called "restitution" after being Born Again, it's how you get to makeup for the wrong you've done others. Tell me, if forgiveness is really all you've written up here; what then is the essence of "restitution?"

However, there're sins that only God can forgive too; sins committed on yourself......

I see that this post is more of a mockery than it is to edify

KingEbukasBlog:


To me , Science provides explanations of how nature and her elements (contents) work .

By nature, you mean the physical, our shared perception?

Ishilove:
On a more serious note, clowning aside

Johnydon22, what you are doing is trying to box God into the rational confines of the four walls of human reasoning. An exercise in futility, I must add.

You say the things you say because you do not know what you are talking about. You think you do, but you don't.

What you need is a 'Paul encounter' to open your eyes. Paul had to be blinded before he could see, and I hope God shows you mercy by 'blinding' you so that you too can see the light.

But the natural (carnal) man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned -1st Cor 2:14. KJV.

I think it will make sense if you can just for a second,cast aside whatever you have been taught in church and read through the op's write up with an open mind....you will find truth in it....

macof:


Orunmila, Buddha, Mithra, Krishna taught all these before jesus

You just came to complicate this thread with more gods

Does orunmila forgives

KingEbukasBlog:


Lol ... actually the phillistines were the oppressors of the Israelites and everytime they forgot God and worshiped baal /idols/gods they had to be redeemed by a judge . I loved those stories in Joshua , Judges etc as a kid though . Its just about God taking the glory ... yes ... from the battles of men - because He was their deliverer

I had questions like you did but I didnt see them as "wrongs" or "flaws" which serve as evidences of the stories being myths . But I saw them as misconceptions or wrong perception on my side and I sought for good christian books , opinions on the internet - youtube videos etc to learn the truth as far back (exposed to the internet at 13 ) .

The Bible tells me to study to show myself approved . It tells me to seek for wisdom , knowledge and understanding and I will get them . I adhered to that command and here I am defending my belief in God with ease ( I must say) .

Lol.
You cannot find truth from that which you have already been programmed to believe on faith.
. Christian books will only tighten the yoke around your mind. They cannot ever give you any answers, but only reinforce things, myths, dogmas that your mind is already beholden to.

You yourself said it yesterday that every culture molds their God according to their cultural practices. Hindus create Hindu gods, arabs create arab god, ancient hebrews also molded their own tribal God, yahweh according their own likes and dislikes.
It is not surprising that their tribal deity, yahweh, would also hate the phillistines, israelites territorial enemies.
It had nothing to do with worshipping Baal and Ashoret, whom the same israelites held in great esteem and also worshipped.

You Need to know that biblical stories are not history, but a rehash of history from only the perspective of the Yahwehist cult of ancient israel.

Thoniameek:


Clearly he asked for forgiveness from his wife first and was sure she had forgiven him before going to God afterwards.....

He understands that forgiveness is more in the hands of the offended than it is in Gods hand. "If you forgive people's sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." John 20:23(good news), that was Jesus telling his disciples.

And there's something called "restitution" after being Born Again, it's how you get to makeup for the wrong you've done others. Tell me, if forgiveness is really all you've written up here; what then is the essence of "restitution?"

However, there're sins that only God can forgive too; sins committed on yourself......

I see that this post is more of a mockery than it is to edify

My Fair lady, I respectfully say, Bullshyte to the above.
Every liar, every criminal asks for forgiveness only after being caught and exposed.
That is not a sincere act of contrition, but just a shallow appeal to sympathy.

If the hypocrite had confessed to his wife long before being publicly exposed, then she might give him the benefit of doubts.

Thoniameek:


Clearly he asked for forgiveness from his wife first and was sure she had forgiven him before going to God afterwards.....

He understands that forgiveness is more in the hands of the offended than it is in Gods hand. "If you forgive people's sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." John 20:23(good news), that was Jesus telling his disciples.

And there's something called "restitution" after being Born Again, it's how you get to makeup for the wrong you've done others. Tell me, if forgiveness is really all you've written up here; what then is the essence of "restitution?"

However, there're sins that only God can forgive too; sins committed on yourself......

I see that this post is more of a mockery than it is to edify

Yes. Restitution is a word.

But let me ask you: Each time you ask for forgiveness of sins, how many times, how and what Restitutions do you do?

When, for example, you lie on your visa, immigration or tax forms, what manner of Restitution do you provide in liue of the little lies you tell everyday?
How about for fornication, what is the Restitution for a little fornication?

KingEbukasBlog:


You really need a good book or lecture on the concept of God and Religion . You have issues ... serious issues . Its like you are really trying so hard to assure yourself that there is no God .

God and Religion ... research on these two

Cheers !

I am tired of responding to your inanity. What is God and what is religion? I am not trying to assure myself that there is no God. God is a human idea. That is why there are many different Gods.

plaetton:

My Fair lady, I respectfully say, Bullshyte to the above.
Every liar, every criminal asks for forgiveness only after being caught and exposed.
That is not a sincere act of contrition, but just a shallow appeal to sympathy.

If the hypocrite had confessed to his wife long before being publicly exposed, then she might give him the benefit of doubts.

You talk as if you do the opposite.....

As far as I know forgiveness is mostly sought - after being found out. But does it actually matters when one asks for forgiveness?

Thoniameek:


You talk as if you do the opposite.....

As far as I know forgiveness is mostly sought - after being found out. But does it actually matters when one asks for forgiveness?

Yes, it matters dear.

If you do something wrong, and are truly contrite, you don't have to wait till you're caught to make commensurate restitution, and then ask for forgiveness.

plaetton:

Yes. Restitution is a word.

But let me ask you: Each time you ask for forgiveness of sins, how many times, how and what Restitutions do you do?

When, for example, you lie on your visa, immigration or tax forms, what manner of Restitution do you provide in liue of the little lies you tell everyday?
How about for fornication, what is the Restitution for a little fornication?

Letting them know you lied settles it. And whatever the consequence that follows you should be ready to bear....,..

Restitution is only done, if the sin committed is against someone not yourself. Fornication is a sin against oneself, and like that you need to settle it out with your maker

Thoniameek:


Letting them know you lied settles it. And whatever the consequence that follows you should be ready to bear....,..

Restitution is only done, if the sin committed is against someone not yourself. Fornication is a sin against oneself, and like that you need to settle it out with your maker

A sin confessed is only half redressed.

But how do you make restitution to god, and how many times in a life time does god need to forgive you for the same sin?

plaetton:

A sin confessed is only half redressed.

But how do you make restitution to god, and how many times in a life time does god need to forgive you for the same sin?

We can't restitution to God! We can't ever be write with God by what we do.....

As many times as a baby learning to walk falls before they actually are able to walk.....

Thoniameek:


We can't restitution to God! We can't ever be write with God by what we do.....

As many times as a baby learning to walk falls before they actually are able to walk.....

Delusions.

Did Jesus not Say " surely as a man soweth, so too shall he reapeth"?
Was Jesus mistaken, or misunderstood?

plaetton:


Delusions.

Did Jesus not Say " surely as a man soweth, so too shall he reapeth"?
Was Jesus mistaken, or misunderstood?

When done deliberately is different from when it's a weakness

Thoniameek:


When done deliberately is different from when it's a weakness

Lol.
Another contradiction.
If sin is an innate weakness, then why are humans held responsible for God's faulty hardwork?

Why are people going to roast in hell for no design fault of theirs?

plaetton:


Lol.
Another contradiction.
If sin is an innate weakness, then why are humans held responsible for God's faulty hardwork?

Why are people going to roast in hell for no design fault of theirs?

It wasn't so until the fall

plaetton:


Lol.
Another contradiction.
If sin is an innate weakness, then why are humans held responsible for God's faulty hardwork?

Why are people going to roast in hell for no design fault of theirs?

In other words, if we disobey God, it's God's fault?

Thoniameek:


It wasn't so until the fall

So Adam completely hacked and re-engineered gods perfect work?

Ludicrous.
The deeper we go, the more silly it sounds.

plaetton:


So Adam completely hacked and re-engineered gods perfect work?

Ludicrous.
The deeper we go, the more silly it sounds.

I do not want to think like you, you do not want to think like me; we honestly can not have an intelligent conversation

I'm going to sound silly to you, your going to sound lost to me and the trend goes on....

Why may I ask are you this bothered about my belief, my faith and my choices? They don't affect you do they?

Thoniameek:


I do not want to think like you, you do not want to think like me; we honestly can not have an intelligent conversation

I'm going to sound silly to you, your going to sound lost to me and the trend goes on....

Why may I ask are you this bothered about my belief, my faith and my choices? They don't affect you do they?

Perhaps not you, but LETHAL MYTHOLOGIES affects everyone, especially in Nigeria.
Boko haram, for example.

plaetton:

Perhaps not you, but LETHAL MYTHOLOGIES affects everyone, especially in Nigeria.
Boko haram, for example.

Exactly my point! It's the Moslem religion that we're having issues with around the world presently, but here on Nairaland you atheists seem to be on to Christians

dalaman:


God is a human idea. That is why there are many different Gods.

You offer no explanations to anything and you reason poorly . you don't agree with science's explanation for the genesis of life neither do you agree with any religious view on the genesis of life . offer your own explanation now , you don't have any .

Religion says an always existing being is responsible , you described it as illogical . Science offered the BBT , you don't agree .

If you don't have any opinion on this simply stop subjecting any view to derision . It's actually that simple .

Thoniameek:


Exactly my point! It's the Moslem religion that we're having issues with around the world presently, but here on Nairaland you atheists seem to be on to Christians

Lol.
My religion is the better religion syndrome.
All too familiar.
All LETHAL MYTHOLOGIES are the same.

In my opinion, evangelical christianity is the greatest mental scurge in Africa, because, it's mentally debilitating effects can take 1 thousand years to undo.

[quote author=plaetton post=37468522]

Lol.
You cannot find truth from that which you have already been programmed to believe on faith.
. Christian books will only tighten the yoke around your mind. They cannot ever give you any answers, but only reinforce things, myths, dogmas that your mind is already beholden to. [/quote ]


Lolz ... It's like saying the answers gotten after making a research on the internet on a particular subject leaves you more confused.

You yourself said it yesterday that every culture molds their God according to their cultural practices. Hindus create Hindu gods, arabs create arab god, ancient hebrews also molded their own tribal God, yahweh according their own likes and dislikes.

Dalaman said that . Because cultures offer different opinions or concepts of God does not mean He does not exist . You just need some guidance to find the right one .

It is not surprising that their tribal deity, yahweh, would also hate the phillistines, israelites territorial enemies.

Actually the Israelites did not choose God , God chose them . They really wanted the canal freedom other gods offered them .

God actually dealt with the Israelites through the Philistines

It had nothing to do with worshipping Baal and Ashoret, whom the same israelites held in great esteem and also worshipped.

It had everything to do with the worship. of other gods

Thou shalt not have any other god before me

Remember ?

They were punished for their disobedience

You Need to know that biblical stories are not history, but a rehash of history from only the perspective of the Yahwehist cult of ancient israel.

Woooooow

Since its all false as you claim , you must really know the true story of the history of Israel . Tell me about it

*** Grabs popcorn ***""

freecocoa:
This forgiveness nonsense seems to be what I find most ridiculous with these theists, I mean like, me a small sinner that only 'fornicates' will share the same hell with shekau, or better yet, should Shekau manage to accept jesus before his death, he'd own a mansion in paradise and me go occupy hell, I wonder how anyone can see sense in this.

Lets fornicate together.

musKeeto:

By nature, you mean the physical, our shared perception?

Tricky ? because it will boil down to providing proof of the work of an "invisible being"

Science is the study of our physical world

Thoniameek:


I do not want to think like you, you do not want to think like me; we honestly can not have an intelligent conversation

I'm going to sound silly to you, your going to sound lost to me and the trend goes on....

Why may I ask are you this bothered about my belief, my faith and my choices? They don't affect you do they?

The amazing thing here is that you don't sound silly to yourself. I always know when I sound silly, how come you don't feel this way right now?

KingEbukasBlog:


You offer no explanations to anything and you reason poorly . you don't agree with science's explanation for the genesis of life neither do you agree with any religious view on the genesis of life . offer your own explanation now , you don't have any .

Religion says an always existing being is responsible , you described it as illogical . Science offered the BBT , you don't agree .

If you don't have any opinion on this simply stop subjecting any view to derision . It's actually that simple .

You just believe in God because you have been indoctrinated with the God hypothesis not because of any rational thought process if you are to look into it deeply. To you it's either the supernatural or nothing. I don't believe in the religious hypothesis and stories because the religious version of reality is false,insulting and degrading. Religious implementation of reality is also coercive, sinister, fraudulent and hypocritical.

As for the questions of why we are here on earth, why there is something instead of nothing, why was the universe created, who created it, when was it created and when? My answer is I don't believe in nothing when it comes to such. I simply do not know the answer to those questions any more than you do. The reality is that you do not have a clue about them because you are a human being just like me but you pretend to know.

I really do not mind not knowing until the actual information is discovered. You on the other hand are OK with the childish hypothesis that other primitive men have presented to you. It is OK to accept them on a personal level, but what is not OK is when you try to see those childish hypothesis as the one and only truth so much so that you castigate others who do not share in your mythology and ancient fictitious stories. Admitting I don't know something is not the same as believing in nothing.

I don't believe in nothing, I simply admit I don't know. Science doesn't have all the answers but religion has no answer at all. As for the truth of the matter, no one knows why we are here, not you, not me, not the priest, not the pastor, not the imam, not the Buddhist monk, not the Ifa priest, not the Jewish rabbi, not the Hindu guru, not even the scientist, any one that offers an opinion about it is simply guessing. Any one who insist that his own guess work is the one and only truth without providing any objective evidence is a liar. I don't need to have an opinion or make things up with regards to something I do not know. No one truly knows why the universe exist, we can all offer different opinions but the reality is that no one knows.

plaetton:


Lol.
My religion is the better religion syndrome.
All too familiar.
All LETHAL MYTHOLOGIES are the same.

In my opinion, evangelical christianity is the greatest mental scurge in Africa, because, it's mentally debilitating effects can take 1 thousand years to undo.

It's a good thing you said "in your opinion" because statistical that's not true....

frank317:


The amazing thing here is that you don't sound silly to yourself. I always know when I sound silly, how come you don't feel this way right now?

The amazing thing here also, is that I'm not you and if you really knew when you sounded silly; you would have modified that post up there a long time ago.

dalaman:


You just believe in God because you have been indoctrinated with the God hypothesis not because of any rational thought process if you are to look into it deeply.thing. To you it's either the supernatural or nothing. I don't believe in the religious hypothesis and stories because the religious version of reality is false,insulting and degrading.

Religious implementation of reality is also coercive, sinister, fraudulent and hypocritical.

Because some people abuse religious practices does not mean God does not exist .

I really do not mind not knowing until the actual information is discovered.

Actually it has . It can't get any better than this (lai lai )
1. God
2. An always existing universe
3. A Theory That Denies The First Cause . Eg : The Big Fraud Theory

Its your choice ... just pick one .

You on the other hand are OK with the childish hypothesis that other primitive men have presented to you.

These "primitive men" actually had first-hand experience of this . I think the "primitive men" are actually as smart as the modern man . But it took years before that potential was FULLY harnessed or level of intelligence attained . If you go down history - pyramids of Egypt , architectural designs of buildings in Greece , Rome , Israel - you would learn that these "primitive men " surpassed the expectations of the modern man .

It would make real sense if you think about it this way . Not modern man making stupid assumptions and trying to tell stories of how these "primitive men" lived their lives . Platteon says the bible story isn't the true history of the Israelites but could he present the true story ? I'm waiting to be wowed .

It is logical to see that their experiences were passed down to descendants through different forms - writings , orals , drawings , carvings - and not the descendants trying to predict a whole culture/lifestyle of their ancestors because they picked up bones and all worth not .

No one truly knows why the universe exist, we can all offer different opinions but the reality is that no one knows.

Like I said earlier it does not get any better than these (plus reasons this time )

1. An always existing being - God - Creation of Intelligent , moral agents to whom He would reveal Himself to
2. A Theory that Denies the First Cause - E.g Big Fraud Theory : evidently some kind of mistake that just happened for no plausible reason .
3. Always existing universe - (No Beginning , No End ) : No purpose at all . "Dinner has been and will always be on the table , come eat and leave ."