Empiree:
This is why i disagree with usermane approach. This is what happens (link below) if muslims are to adopt his philosophy. Read the link below see how terrible they live.

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a32948410/nothing_prepares_you_for_a_loser_baby_daddy.

They just have babies like birds. No women's honor whatsoever!

Hey, big man, what 's your problem with me? I maintain that the scriptures do not prohibit mere dating or courtship and i stand by that. You claimed otherwise but have failed to give evidence from the scripture so far. I don't give a damn about the Muslim community accepting my philosophy because it add nothing to my well being. The only reason i come here to post is to let out the truth. If i convince anyone, great. But if i don't, it doesn't change anything. I never claimed to be perfect but i know i am right on several claims. In a community that is absorbed in self gratification, hero-worship and self-righteousness, i feel great to go against the grain.

For the story you refer us, i can refer you to several stories of happily married couples who have dated from high school or early college years. The problem with you is that you only see sex whenever dating is mentioned because you have been wired to do so by your ulamas. You 've repeatedly proved that you know nothing about dating or courtship even though you stubbornly argue concerning it. Just like you argue with me regarding animal slaughter whilst knowing little about it, no more than you were taught by Sheikh Imran Hosein.

PS: And you should stop talking about women 's honor because your religion grant women no real honor. There are already enough proofs for this, you just can't see this because you are living far from reality.

usermane:


Hey, big man, what 's your problem with me?

proooooblem? nah.

I maintain that the scriptures do not prohibit mere dating or courtship and i stand by that. You claimed otherwise but have failed to give evidence from the scripture so far.

Lol, you missed it. Go back up there buddy.

I don't give a damn about the Muslim community accepting my philosophy because it add nothing to my well being.

Yup, you are entitled to your opinion. That's your prerogative my man.

The only reason i come here to post is to let out the truth. If i convince anyone, great. But if i don't, it doesn't change anything. I never claimed to be perfect but i know i am right on several claims. In a community that is absorbed in self gratification, hero-worship and self-righteousness, i feel great to go against the grain.

Your right now. No one is gonna take it from you. Enjoy

For the story you refer us, i can refer you to several stories of happily married couples who have dated from high school or early college years. The problem with you is that you only see sex whenever dating is mentioned because you have been wired to do so by your ulamas. You 've repeatedly proved that you know nothing about dating or courtship even though you stubbornly argue concerning it.

Oh well, there is no need to put on boxing gloves with me. No, I do not think it involves only sex all the time. I basically said chances of that is very high. Can you deny that?. But kindly put percentage @underlined against my opinion. Just weigh the percentage. That's enough. I dont deny successful dating and courtship.

PS: And you should stop talking about women 's honor because your religion grant women no real honor. There are already enough proofs for this, you just can't see this because you are living far from reality.

Back to op, there is nothing wrong marrying for LOVE & or RELIGIOUSNESS.

Empiree:
proooooblem? nah.

Lol, you missed it. Go back up there buddy.

No, I didn't. You posted a verse forbidding extra-marital or pre-marital sex. Of what concern has that verse with dating? Please think. That wasn't an intelligent response so I quietly ignored it in order to save my time.

Courtship within limits is allowed in Islam.

Usermane you know the Quran says do not go near zina. not hadith but zina. so lets assume dating whatever you understand by this is allowed, considering people who are able to avoid pre marital sex all through irrespective of religion or race are the exception and not the norm. How do propose the "Do not go near zina" restriction assuming they stated dating from high school which you implied is haram. Not commiting zina is quite different from going near it.

Ps: we aren't fighting. because most of your post are always on the defensive, assuming everyone in this section is fighting with you. main reason i avoid replying your post or when you mention mod.

Repentance96:
They are not mutually exclusive. The Prophet (pbuh) gave four possible criteria when looking for a spouse. Beauty, wealth, rank and/or piety. These are all permissible to be used as criteria, but he (sal) singled out piety (taqwa) as the single quality that would enable you to succeed (in both worlds). Taqwa cannot be judged by man though, so you should go by outward signs such as charity, hijab etc

Love and religion is not mutually exclusive. It is farl to maintain and fulfill the rights of your spouse, though it is not farl to "love" - Shariah does not govern the heart. You fall in love with what you love. If you love beauty, you'll love the beautiful. If you love wealth, you'll love the wealthy. If you love power, you'll love the powerful. If you love Allah, you'll love those who are conscious of Him. Taqwa is the only quality that is 100% in one's control. This is potentially eternal, so only this "love" is eternal.

I believe that this is the love that should compell you to marry. As to the other (lower) dimensions of love, it would have to be grown and be maintained in cycles after marriage. This is a great sign of God, if you think about it

[30:21] And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves mates that you may find tranquillity in them; and He placed between you affection and mercy. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.

tqs for ur contribution. But how about d element of attraction which we may term love. One could find someone one is attracted to but the person may not be as religious or otherwise, whence one likes a person fro his or her religiousness but one just can't stand being married to such person.
U remember d story of zainab daughter of rasulullah (s. A. W? )who loved her husband so much even though he wasn't a believer at dat time and she bore patiently till he became Muslim.
Or even stories of several other sahabis whowhom say must or Abu bark proposed to buy who declined their offer not cos they weren't religious enough of course as we know, but probably because they weren't their type of person.

Sissie:
Both are important.

salaam alaykum sis.
Tis for ur contribution, at first I thought my thread had been closed or something.
Sorry ifbu don't mind me askiby, are u d owner of the 'sissie' cosmetic brand?

Sissie:
Courtship within limits is allowed in Islam.

Usermane you know the Quran says do not go near zina. not hadith but zina. so lets assume dating whatever you understand by this is allowed, considering people who are able to avoid pre marital sex all through irrespective of religion or race are the exception and not the norm. How do propose the "Do not go near zina" restriction assuming they stated dating from high school which you implied is haram. Not commiting zina is quite different from going near it.

Please, define dating. If you see mere dating as going near zina, then how about night clubbing, masturbation, watching porn or checking a brothel?

Ps: we aren't fighting. because most of your post are always on the defensive, assuming everyone in this section is fighting with you. main reason i avoid replying your post or when you mention mod.

In most cases, I come on defensive because of my past experiences here; unwarranted bans, deleting of clean posts, biased moderating geared towards guarding mainstream Sunni interpretation of Islam from any kind of criticism.

usermane:


Please, define dating. If you see mere dating as going near zina, then how about night clubbing, masturbation, watching porn or checking a brothel?



In most cases, I come on defensive because of my past experiences here; unwarranted bans, deleting of clean posts, biased moderating geared towards guarding mainstream Sunni interpretation of Islam from any kind of criticism.

Mere dating!

Why my defination though? I clearly said whatever you understood by it.

Yeah i see all you listed as going near zina. Going near it could be done different ways.


You are on the other extreme end of the spectrum, and like the same way the extremist on the other end of the same spectrum dont see themselves as extremist, you dont either.

enieme:

salaam alaykum sis.
Tis for ur contribution, at first I thought my thread had been closed or something.
Sorry ifbu don't mind me askiby, are u d owner of the 'sissie' cosmetic brand?

Wa alaikum Salam,

No its not deleted. Yeah I owe the brand.

Sissie:


Mere dating!

Yes, "mere" dating. Implying it is not as reprehensible as you deem it.

Why my defination though? I clearly said whatever you understood by it.

Yeah i see all you listed as going near zina. Going near it could be done different ways.

And you see dating roughly close to zina as those? I believe I 've made my point.

You are on the other extreme end of the spectrum, and like the same way the extremist on the other end of the same spectrum dont see themselves as extremist, you dont either.

Hmm... Who determines the range of this spectrum? Be careful with using a term like "extreme" because it relative one and has varying specification for varying observers.

enieme:

tqs for ur contribution. But how about d element of attraction which we may term love. One could find someone one is attracted to but the person may not be as religious or otherwise, whence one likes a person fro his or her religiousness but one just can't stand being married to such person.
U remember d story of zainab daughter of rasulullah (s. A. W? )who loved her husband so much even though he wasn't a believer at dat time and she bore patiently till he became Muslim.
Or even stories of several other sahabis whowhom say must or Abu bark proposed to buy who declined their offer not cos they weren't religious enough of course as we know, but probably because they weren't their type of person.

Well, if you love Allah then naturally you'll love what He loves and dislike what He does not love. The more taqwa you have, the more you love the people who have taqwa. By "love" I mean the care and affection you harbour in your heart for these people. This is a general rule and applies in any relationship between any two believers.

Islam came in stages so as to train the hearts of the early Muslims to that which is better for themselves and their societies, as God knows better what is good and what is bad for us. I don't think Zainab the daughter of Muhammad (sal) would have fallen in love with this man after having knowledge of the full revelation. In any case love and mercy can only be grown between the two sexes in marriage, and not before or outside of it. Zainab was not attracted to him because of his idolatry, but because of his other good qualities and with time in her marriage her love grew and thus she couldn't break away. The Qur'an makes an exception to marriages like this - which is illegal under the General Sharia' - but was made at a time of ignorance. Because of this exception, new Muslims who find themselves in an "unholy" marriage may chose to remain in the marriage without blame or interference.

There is always the possibility that even though you are attracted to your spouse because of your love of deen and faith which is reflected in their life, still that wouldn't be enough. Consider the marriage and relationship that the Prophet (sal) himself brought about between his adopted son Zaid and his cousin Zainab, two great Sahabah, but their marriage failed (33:37) . This kind of love is obviously not enough to sustain the marriage, and we need to consider all other factors.

usermane:


Yes, "mere" dating. Implying it is not as reprehensible as you deem it.



And you see dating roughly close to zina as those? I believe I 've made my point.



Hmm... Who determines the range of this spectrum? Be careful with using a term like "extreme" because it relative one and has varying specification for varying observers.

Have you?

You absolutely made no point. You replied me with a questions.

You didn't say if dating was GOING near zina or not. I even went ahead to say considering staying away from pre marital sex is the exception not the norm irrespective of religion.

And you say you've made your point.
Hilarious.

So am in the university, with absolutely no plans of getting married, I fall in love and I start dating what's the probability we won't go near zina ie hug or kiss etc.

I guess the hugs and kisses are alright!!!!

Yeah I used the word extreme, and would use it again. Usermane you are an extremist, now bite me.

usermane, u are biting what you can't chew with sisi

Sissie:


Have you?

You absolutely made no point. You replied me with a questions.

You didn't say if dating was GOING near zina or not. I even went ahead to say considering staying away from pre marital sex is the exception not the norm irrespective of religion.

And you say you've made your point.
Hilarious.

So am in the university, with absolutely no plans of getting married, I fall in love and I start dating what's the probability we won't go near zina ie hug or kiss etc.

I guess the hugs and kisses are alright!!!!

Yeah I used the word extreme, and would use it again. Usermane you are an extremist, now bite me.

Enough! You are ignorant and lack of respect.
@underlined prove you know barely much about dating to discuss concerning it. That is why I earlier asked you of your understanding of dating. If you know, then you won't bring in hugging and kissing here.

You admitted courtship is permitted, if courtship can be done without kissing and hugging, why can't dating be? I won't derail this thread further anymore. I will clarify myself on the a new thread in future, hopefully you won't hide the thread.

usermane:


Enough! You are ignorant and lack of respect.
@underlined prove you know barely much about dating to discuss concerning it. That is why I earlier asked you of your understanding of dating. If you know, then you won't bring in hugging and kissing here.

You admitted courtship is permitted, if courtship can be done without kissing and hugging, why can't dating be? I won't derail this thread further anymore. I will clarify myself on the a new thread in future, hopefully you won't hide the thread.

Aww, ignorant and lack of respect. Eyyah sorry, was your pride trampled upon? Eyyah ndo, sanu, pele.

What's the difference between dating and courting? I guess if I decide to date for the fun of it without marriage insight,its not dating, I have no idea what the proper term is.

Funny enough you are the ignorant one, because dating is having a relationship with someone above friendship, which MAY be with the aim of accessing the person for the future or just the fun of it. And what do most people on date do? Go out, hang, kiss etc.

I clearly stated courtship within limits, I didn't even just say courtship, I added within limits. You didn't add any restrictions to yours. But I am beginning to think you have problems with simple comprehension.

You are so far gone in your own shit, you can't perceive the stink.

enieme:

Hmm, srry o but if I may ask,what sect do u belong to or what madhab do uu follow ? Cos urs seem totally different from d view d general muslim population hold

Lol, he's "Quraniyun".

Empiree:
Lol, he's "Quraniyun".

What is all this nonsense? He asked me, me... me and I have introduced myself. Allow him to find the rest by himself instead of spoon feeding him.

And, you need to suck it up. Those you call Quraniyyun are not a sect or madhab. A sect or madhab have Imam and a formal interpretation of Islam, an oath of allegiance and penalty for apostasy. Unlike you Sunnis and Shiites, the so called Quraniyyun have non of these. So they cannot be recognized as another sect or madhab

usermane:


What is all this nonsense? He asked me, me... me and I have introduced myself. Allow him to find the rest by himself instead of spoon feeding him.

And, you need to suck it up. Those you call Quraniyyun are not a sect or madhab. A sect or madhab have Imam and a formal interpretation of Islam, an oath of allegiance and penalty for apostasy. Unlike you Sunnis and Shiites, the so called Quraniyyun have non of these. So they cannot be recognized as another sect or madhab

Alright buddy...no hard feelings. I didnt say Quranite is sect. It's simply independent ideology.

Tantrum thrower,
he asked me, me... me LOL.

@usermane Dude chill, when I mention you, don't throw boxing gloves, incase you haven't noticed you are so stuck up in the past, a lot of things have changed. Very few people even bother to argue or fight with you? For how long are you going to lick your wounds.

You've been banned and your post deleted, yeah yeah who hasn't?, Mac banned you about 6 times within 2013-2014 your bans were for short periods. I have been banned longer. Most of the bans is antispam bot, and the last time you got banned was 2014, but you are still licking your wounds, let it go already.

Tantrum thrower,
he asked me, me... me LOL.

^lol..didnt know you sensed that.

Empiree:
^lol..didnt know you sensed that.

Empiree:
Lol, he's "Quraniyun".

I don't think he's even that.
Btw, ur conclusion about love and or religiousness Mat be somehow unacceptable for the or I mean. But for the hand it's okeokay.
If I say or, does one go marry say a Muslim dat doesn't papray all d name of lov?
I prefer thinkinbitbthis way, both a're needed but d religiousness take precedence over love in whatever choice one makeS.

usermane:


What is all this nonsense? she asked me, me... me and I have introduced myself. Allow her to find the rest by herself instead of you spoon feeding her

better

Repentance96:


Islam came in stages so as to train the hearts of the early Muslims to that which is better for themselves and their societies, as God knows better what is good and what is bad for us. I don't think Zainab the daughter of Muhammad (sal) would have fallen in love with this man after having knowledge of the full revelation. In any case love and mercy can only be grown between the two sexes in marriage, and not before or outside of it. Zainab was not attracted to him because of his idolatry, but because of his other good qualities and with time in her marriage her love grew and thus she couldn't break away. The Qur'an makes an exception to marriages like this - which is illegal under the General Sharia' - but was made at a time of ignorance. Because of this exception, new Muslims who find themselves in an "unholy" marriage may chose to remain in the marriage without blame or interference.

I'm not sure about this part and don't quite agree with it. @ empiree what evidence do I think ubmight have to agree or disagree with thisbpoint?

enieme:

I don't think he's even that.

https://www.nairaland.com/1891161/quranites-quranists-hadith-rejecters

Btw, ur conclusion about love and or religiousness Mat be somehow unacceptable for the or I mean. But for the hand it's okeokay.
If I say or, does one go marry say a Muslim dat doesn't papray all d name of lov?
I prefer thinkinbitbthis way, both a're needed but d religiousness take precedence over love in whatever choice one makeS.

Of course, religiousness take precedence. But you still get to love the one is spend eternity with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi6maMj7jL4