babs787:

@Olaadegbu


Brother, maybe if I take you through the cannons of the bible, you would realize the truth. The original message is lost and people had to edit,remove, insert stories to make up the lost ones and that is the reason you see words contradicting each other, chapters plagiarising each other, suppossed authors copying same thing etc.

Its because of the corruption that Quran came. The original message is lost but you would only see traces of same in the bible because the pentateuch couldnt be said to have been written by Moses with regards to Deuteronomy and NT couldnt have been the revelation given to Jesus. I am not saying its not words of God but not 100% as it has been adulterated.

@babs787 by this time you would have noticed that i am a very detailed individual, i try not to leave anything to chances.
Hence can you kindly, do me a favour, show a little courtesy and answer the following questions to your best ability.
You do not have to answer everything, you can provide answers to those questions that you only have answers for.

Brother, maybe if I take you through the cannons of the bible, you would realize the truth

- What do you mean by the phrase "cannons of the bible".
- How do you know the cannons of the bible.
- Which cannons of the bible do you know.
- Which cannons of the bible do you consider to be the truth.
- Do you have the truthful cannons.
- Why do you bother to read, study and antagonise people who believe those cannons, considering dat you said they're not true.


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The original message is lost and people had to edit,remove, insert stories to make up the lost ones and that is the reason you see words contradicting each other, chapters plagiarising each other, suppossed authors copying same thing etc.

- Which original message became lost.
- When did the original message become lost.
- How did you know that the original message became lost.
- Do you have a copy of the reference material that you used to determine that the original message has been lost.
- Do you have a copy of what the original message is supposed to be, considering that something must have existed in the first place before it becomes lost.
- How did the original message become lost.
- How can we get the original message back.
- Who were the original messengers.
- Who message were this original messengers carrying.
- Who were the people to which this original message was preached to, so that we can go and meet them to find out about the original message.
- Which chapters plagiarised each other.
- How do you know something has been plagiarised without an original copy.
- What is your perfect frame of reference for your conclusions.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Its because of the corruption that Quran came

- Is the corruption of the original message the same thing as when you said the original message was lost or are you talking about something different in this case.
- When did the corruption of the original message happen according to the Quran or Mohammed or Allah or anyone else for that matter.
- How did the corruption of the original happen according to the Quran or Mohammed or Allah or anyone else for that matter.
- When was it revealed that the original message has been corrupted, was it before the birth of Mohammed or during the lifetime of Mohammed or after his death.


The Bible was written on earth by[b] inspired men[/b](under inspiration of the Spirit) over thousands of years (and not in one single day).
Also, yes there are translations of the bible from one language (Greek, Latin, English, Yoruba etc) to another, hence that some of the english translations have translation problems, considering that the ancient manuscripts are still available to correct any translation problems. Unless people seek to be mischevious, its easy to understand that even though errors in translations are corrected overtime, nevertheless no corrections are made to the original manuscripts overtime, hence since the ancient words remain true and uncorrupted contrary to your assertions, hence its easy to see the falsehood in the assertions that the bible has errors.

For example, a typical translation problem that can be encountered can be seen even from the Yoruba language, provided proper context and alphabet ascents are not taking into account.

Yoruba - "Babatunde ni oko nla"
English translation 1 -  Babatunde has a big penis.
English translation 2 -  Babatunde has a big farm.
English translation 3 -  Babatunde has a big stone.


So my questions to you are:

- Who wrote the Quran.
- Where was the Quran written (was it on earth or in the spiritual realm).
- When was the Quran Written.
- Was any human being involved in the writing of the quran.
- Is the Quran perfect written.
- Were there ever different any diagreeing copies of the Quran.
- Can the Quran be translated into English.
- Are there english translation problems with the Quran.


--------------------------------------------------------------

The original message is lost but you would only see traces of same in the bible because the pentateuch couldnt be said to have been written by Moses with regards to Deuteronomy and NT couldnt have been the revelation given to Jesus. I am not saying its not words of God but not 100% as it has been adulterated.

- In your opinion, what is the pentateuch.
- In your opinion, what is the Torah.
- Is the Torah the same thing as the pentateuch.
- What do you understand by the meaning of the english word called "Revelation".
- Who told you NT is a revelation given to the Messiah.
- Who in your opinion gave the revelation to the Messiah.
- How do you know the NT is adulterated.
- Who adulterated the NT.
- When was it adulterated.
- If the NT is not 100% the Word of the Creator, then what percentage of it is the truth and what percentage of it is lies.
- Can you please identify the parts of the NT that are true and the parts that are lies.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Finally,


- Is the Creator in the Bible the same as the allah in Quran

- What is the name of the Creator in the Bible.
- What is the name of the creator in the quran.

- What are the titles of the Creator in the bible.
- What are the titles of the creator in the quran.


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Babs787 and others, abeg i take Mukina, Aisha, Sadia, Kadijat and Mutiat beg you, please make your answers simple and lets try and engage in a civil and simple question and answer session. In fact you can choose to write "No Answer" to the any question you choose not to answer.

Thank you.

babs787:

@Olaadegbu

Let us see what you termed contradictions.

Not only contradictions but historical and scientific errors.

babs787:

RFLMAO . It is very glaring that you didnt read the verses before lifting them from one of your websites but would take the pain to lecture since you are ignorant of what you posted and you happened to be my very good friend

Who be your friend, my friend? 

babs787:

Let us read the verses please:

100. "O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!"

Does the above portray Isaac?[/b]

102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"

Oga, read again. Isaac was not born when the incident happened.[b]

So you have seen that your bible contradicted and misled you when it said Isaac was sacrificed, saying 'take thy only son'. How could Isaac be the only son when Ishmael was alive? Even if he was not living with his father, Ishmael would still occupy the first position unless he dies. Put your thinking cap on and reason, can you deny the first its right simply because he is not staying with his parent/ He would still be as lng as he is still alive.

Judge your bible oga

If you want to know historical facts go to the people of the book.   Genesis 22:2 made it clear that God tested Abraham to sacrifice his only son.  What He meant was for Abraham to sacrifice his only son of promise or covenant, the only son of Sarah and the only one left since Ishmael had been sent away with his mum.  His other sons were not yet born at this time. (Gen.25:1-6).

In Genesis 25:5 and 6 you will find that "Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac." and gave gifts to the children of the concubines.  This was to guide against jealousy and trouble between Abraham's sons because these other sons may be settled in other lands and that they might not eventually dispute Isaac's claim on God's plan for him and his seed to have the land of Canaan as promised in the Abrahamic Covenant (Gen.13:14-17; 15:18-21; 17:8.).  It was the custom to give the estate to the oldest son of the first wife.  The sons of the concubines did not inherit unless in the case of no legal heir, and with the consent of the wife.  And you will realise that Sarah did not give her consent for Ishmael to be a joint heir with Isaac in Gen.21:10 and I quote: 

"Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac."

You can now see how your 'holy' book got its historical facts mixed up and ending up confusing millions of people (slaves) today.

babs787:

Let us read the verse:

Olaadegbu, I couldnt see two trees in those verses and where on earth did you see yours please?[/color]

How will you see two trees when you are looking through those opaque goggles and into the wrong historical record?

babs787:

Let us read again:

Fourth son was not mentioned oga. Why not read first rather lying? [color=#990000]

Whether fourth or first son check the original record and you will discover that no son drowned in the flood.  

babs787:

Let us read. Hope you are not tired of doing that?

Where did you see 9 months? :oHow could someone not speak for nine months

Check the original document where you will find Zechariah who doubted God when  he was told  by angel Gabriel of the good news that was to be performed by God in answer to their prayers for a child.  He asked for a sign of the fulfillment of this promise and the sign became a punishment for his unbelief.  This was before John the Baptist was conceived and he only started to speak after the birth of his son (Luke 1:18-25, 57-64).  Calculate how long it takes for a child to be born from conception, three days or nine months?    Did I not tell you to consult the people of the book?

babs787:

Where is the contradiction?[color=#990000][/color]

It is historical inaccurate to claim that Pharaoh's magicians repented, simply ask the people of the book for details.

babs787:

More coming,

Make sure that you cross-check your facts with the original records before you come with more denials here.

babs787:

Continuation

@Olaadegbu
When did you start reasoning like David, Todak, Noetic etc? The story may looks similar but the accounts are different. Are you saying we dont have similar stories in the bible?

If you had been honest to yourself, you would have seen that the story differs in such that:

In the above verse, they needed a king as opposed to biblical account

Having deduced that, we could see that the stories differ in the sense that the children of Israel needed a king because they wanted to fight but were given a king they didnt like and were tested to show how serious they really wanted to fight.

Get your fact right oga Olaadegbu

Let me quote what you are trying to hide from others.

"And when Saul set out with the army, he said: Lo! Allah will try you by (the ordeal of) a river.  Whosoever therefore drinketh thereof he is not of me, and whosoever tasteth it not he is of me, save him who taketh (thereof) in the hollow of his hand.  But they drank thereof, all save a few of them.  And after he had crossed (the river), he and those who believed with him, they said: We have no power this day against Goliath and his host.  But those who knew that they would meet their Lord exclaimed: How many a little company hath overcome a mighty host by Allah's leave! Allah is with the steadfast."

It does not take a rocket scientist to discover that this is a case of transposition of passages, mixing up the event that happened to Gideon with that of King Saul.  No wonder you guys are confused, what a pity.

babs787:

3v 49. "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

Where is the contradiction oga[/color]

The childhood miracles of Jesus? which you can also find in Surah 19:29-33; 5:110 where you have baby Jesus talking.   I know where you got this information from, this was copied from the apocryphal's gospel of the infancy of Jesus Christ written by gnostics in the 2nd century AD.  Egypt has a very similar account.  In the verse you quoted above which has Jesus taking clay, breathing on it and turning it into a bird was most likely borrowed from one of his wives, two of whom are believed to have been "Christians".  This Qur'anic fable is borrowed from apocryphal gospel of Thomas which says of Jesus as a young child performed these miracles.  There is no doubt that Mo borrowed from both Jewish and Christian myth (folklore stories), which makes any attempt to describe the Qur'an as inspired or received from heaven difficult to support.

babs787:

Let us read:
33. It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.

[color=#990000]Oga, dod you read the verse before posting?[/b]

This is from Surah 21:33.  The idea that the sun goes in a circular course around the earth was discredited with the work of Corpernicus and Galileo.  Geocentrism was the false concept of the heavens, common in the time of the writing of the Qur'an.  Unfortunately for the claim of inerrancy of the Muslim scripture, this false idea slipped into the Qur'an.  Do you now see what mess you guys have gotten yourself into, how are you going to get out of it, more spin (al taquiyya).

babs787:

Didnt get this

Read the whole chapter and then come and give us the feedback.

babs787:

Must you lie Olaadegbu, I dont expect this from your type

This is the verse:
Surah. 34:9
9. See they not what is before them and behind them, of the sky and the earth? If We wished, We could cause the earth to swallow them up, or cause a piece of the sky to fall upon them. Verily in this is a Sign for every devotee that turns to Allah (in repentance).

Are you sayng you understand simple English language

AND

52:44 Were they to see a piece of the sky falling (on them), they would (only) say: "Clouds gathered in heaps!"

Where is your contradiction?[/color]

I did not lie, your Qur'an said it, not me.  In this day and age for some peeps to believe and teach their children that a piece of sky can to fall on someone says so much for the scientific accuracy of the Qur'an.

babs787:

King David makes an iron coat of mail. 

Surah. 34:11

11. (Commanding), "Make thou coast of mail, balancing well the rings of chain armour, and work ye righteousness; for be sure I see (clearly) all that ye do."

Na wa for you oooooooooo [color=#990000]

The problem with this claim is that iron chain armour was not invented until many centuries after David lived.

babs787:

More coming

If I were you I will stop arguing blindly and seriously start  considering dumping what you call the 'holy book' into the bin of forgetfulness.

babs787:

[size=18pt]Olodo, do Torah, Injil, Quran not come from the same creator?[/size]

But WHERE is this torah and injil that the creator sent? Surely they cant be the corrupt ones we carry now right? For that would imply that allah LIED when he claimed he would protect them.

Now why are your copies lost?

@No2atheism

@babs787 by this time you would have noticed that i am a very detailed individual, i try not to leave anything to chances.
Hence can you kindly, do me a favour, show a little courtesy and answer the following questions to your best ability.
You do not have to answer everything, you can provide answers to those questions that you only have answers for.

Ok

Quote
Brother, maybe if I take you through the cannons of the bible, you would realize the truth

Ok

- What do you mean by the phrase "cannons of the bible".

- How do you know the cannons of the bible.

- Which cannons of the bible do you know.

- Which cannons of the bible do you consider to be the truth.

- Do you have the truthful cannons.

When you finish fooling yourself, read through these and know the meaning of cannons

http://www.why-christians-convert-to-islam.com/EXHIBITAv2.htm

http://www.why-christians-convert-to-islam.com/EXHIBITAv2.htm

http://www.why-christians-convert-to-islam.com/ExhibitE.htm

- Why do you bother to read, study and antagonise people who believe those cannons, considering dat you said they're not true.

Read through those links oga

Please go to this link to read more about the whole Bible and analysis of the Canonical and Apocryphal New Testament

Scriptureshttp://www.maplenet.net/~trowbridge/contents.htm

Also read about the New Testament canons through the ages
http://www.maplenet.net/~trowbridge/canons.htm

- Which original message became lost.

The one given to Jesus, Moses.Let me limit my response to NT for a start. Are you saying the Gospels, corinthians, Romans are part of the revelation given to Jesus?

There existed many different Bibles during the time of the Roman Emperor, Constantine, which were widely believed in by different Christian sects in the year 312. In other words, during the first 3 centuries of "Christianity" (300 years), many different canons with 100s of books/gospels combined existed! That is a lot of canons, a lot of books/gospels, and a lot of time (300 years) of different Christian religions existed. Also, Constantine's own "unified canon or bible" got lost and only small portions of it were found! So what we have today from "Bible(s)" are not even Constantine's books.

Read through this:

There are lots of canons, each written according to the church thus:

Anglican Church: The canon of the Anglican falls between the Catholic Church and many Protestant denominations by accepting only the Jewish canon and the New Testament as authoritative, but also by accepting segments of the apocryphal writings in the lectionary and liturgy. At one time all copies of the King James Version of 1611 included the Apocrypha between the Old and New Testaments.


Armenian Church: The noteworthy features of the Armenian version of the Bible was the inclusion of certain books that elsewhere was regarded as apocryphal. The Old Testament included the History of Joseph and Asenath and the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, and the New Testament included the Epistle of Corinthians to Paul and a Third Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians.

Coptic Church: Athanasius issued his Thirty-Ninth Festal Epistle not only in the Greek but also in Coptic, in a slightly different form - though the list of the twenty seven books of the New Testament is the same in both languages. How far, however the list remained authoritative for the Copts is problematical. The Coptic (Bohairic) translation of the collection knowns as the Eighty-Five Apostlic Canons concludes with a different sequence of the books of the New Testament and is enlarged by the addition of two others: the four Gospels; the Acts of the Apostles; the fourteen Epistles of Paul (not mentioned individually); two Epistles of Peter, three of John, one of James, one of Jude; the Apocalypse of John; the two Epistles of Clement.


Ethiopic (Abyssinian) Church: This Church has the largest Bible of all, and and distinguishes different canons, the "narrower" and the "broader" according to the extent of the New Testament. The Ethiopic Old Testament comprises the books of the Hebrew Bible as well as all of the deuterocanonical books listed above, along with Jubilees, I Enoch, and Joseph ben Gorion's (Josippon's) medieval history of the Jews and other nations. The New Testament in what is referred to as the "broader" canon is made up of thirty-five books, joining to the usual twenty-seven books eight additional texts, namely four sections of church order from a compilation called Sinodos, two sections from the Ethiopic Book of the Covenant, Ethiopic Clement, and Ethiopic Didascalia. When the "narrower" New Testament canon is followed, it is made up of only the familiar twenty-seven books, but then the Old Testament books are divided differently so that they make up 54 books instead of 46. In both the narrower and broader canon, the total number of books comes to 81.

Greek Orthodox Church: The Bible of the Greek Orthodox church comprises all of the books accepted by the Roman Catholic church, plus I Esdras, the Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151, and 3 Maccabees. The Slavonic canon adds 2 Esdras, but designates I and 2 Esdras as 2 and 3 Esdras. Other Eastern churches have 4 Maccabees as well.
[b]
Protestant Church: [/b]Historically, Protestant churches have recognized the Hebrew canon as their Old Testament, although differently ordered, and with some books divided so that the total number of books is thirty-nine. These books, as arranged in the traditional English Bible, fall into three types of literature: seventeen historical books (Genesis to Esther), five poetical books (Job to Song of Solomon), and seventeen prophetical books. With the addition of another twenty-seven books (the four Gospels, Acts, twenty-one letters, and the book of Revelation), called the New Testament, the Christian scriptures are complete.
[b]
Roman Catholic Church: [/b]The Protestant canon took shape by rejecting a number of books and parts of books that had for centuries been part of the Old Testament in the Greek Septuagint and in the Latin Vulgate, and had gained wide acceptance within the Roman Catholic church. In response to the Protestant Reformation, at the Council of Trent (1546) the Catholic church accepted, as deuterocanonical, Tobit, Judith, the Greek additions to Esther, the Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach, Baruch, the Letter of Jeremiah, three Greek additions to Daniel (the Prayer of Azariah and the Song of the Three Jews, Susanna, and Bel and the Dragon), and I and 2 Maccabees. These books, together with those in the Jewish canon and the New Testament, constitute the total of seventy [b]three books accepted by the Roman Catholic church.

Syriac Church: [/b]Syriac Churches used the Diatesseron, the four-in-one Gospel, introduced by Tatian, and was read in the Syriac Churches for quite some time before it was replaced by Peshitta. Peshitta has again a different number of Books in the New Testament. This represents for the New Testament an accomodation of the canon of the Syrians with that of the Greeks. Third Corinthians was rejected, and, in addition to the fourteen Pauline Epistles (including Hebrews, following Philemon), three longer Catholic Epistles (James, 1 Peter, and 1 John) were included. The four shorter Catholic Epistles (2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, and Jude) and the Apocalypse are absent from the Peshitta Syriac version, and thus the Syriac canon of the New Testament contained but twenty-two writings. For a large part of the Syrian Church this constituted the closing of the canon, for after the Council of Ephesus (431 CE) the East Syrians separated themselves as Nestorians from the Great Church.

Going through the above, one wonders which is following the original manuscript. The above tells that the original has been lost or corrupted.

- When did the original message become lost.

After the demise of Jesus

- How did you know that the original message became lost.

Contradictions, words of historians, irrelevant words, unfulfilled prophecies ascribed to Jesus etc

- Do you have a copy of the reference material that you used to determine that the original message has been lost.

I wouldnt know why you are still asking me this when its very glaring that the original message is lost
Read the links

Glad to tell you that some early greek manuscript do not contain John 7 v 53 to John 8 v

- Do you have a copy of what the original message is supposed to be, considering that something must have existed in the first place before it becomes lost.

The links are there for you to check up

- How did the original message become lost.

Read again:

The Muratorian Canon
The Canon Of Origen (A.D. c. 185 - 254)
The Canon Of Eusebius Of Caesarea (A.D. 265 - 340)
A Canon Of Uncertain Date And Provenance Inserted in Codex Claromontanus
The Canon Of Cyril Of Jerusalem (c. A.D. 350)
The Cheltenham Canon (c. A.D. 360)
The Canon Approved By The Synod Of Laodicea (c. A.D. 363)
The Canon Of Athanasius (A.D. 367)
The Canon Approved By The 'Apostolic Canons' (c. A.D. 380)
The Canon Of Gregory Of Nazianzus (A.D. 329 - 89)
The Canon Of Amphilochius Of Iconium (d. 394)
The Canon Approved By The Third Synod Of Carthage (A.D. 397)
The Canons Of The Old Testament & The New Testament Through The Ages

- How can we get the original message back.

By reading the Quran which happened to be the last book. The Bible was not given to Jesus but a gosel and not gospels.

To ba ya the same people will come together whining that Muslims are always attacked. Is this thread meant to be a discussion or an attack on the Bible. Where's lagosboy, oyb, olabs and co o tell us the point of this thread

@Thiefofheart

To ba ya the same people will come together whining that Muslims are always attacked. Is this thread meant to be a discussion or an attack on the Bible. Where's lagosboy, oyb, olabs and co o tell us the point of this thread

Sister, I raised this and other threads because of unrepentant Davidylan, Todak, Noetic and No2atheism and you would know that from the subject. I did this when I noticed their ignorance in my section. They claim to know more when it comes to religion thereby displaying lack of intelligent in my section. I have told them severally but they refused and I raised this thread and others to know how intelligent they could be. Go to Islam section and read what your brothers have turned it to.

You're not having a discussion though babs, you're attacking.( eg LIAR! COWARD!) I mean you guys claim not to be like David and co, so why do the same in kiind if you believe this is exactly how they behave?

I dont get the question, are you stating the Bible is wrong for referring to a boy whom you presume was 17 as a "child" or what's the gist of the argument?

@No2atheism

- Who were the original messengers.

Moses the Torah, David the Pslam and Jesus the Injil(Gospel)

- Who message were this original messengers carrying.

Oneness of God and not your triune god

- Who were the people to which this original message was preached to, so that we can go and meet them to find out about the original message.

Prophets and messengers were sent to their community.

- Which chapters plagiarised each other.

You could still tell me why these verses are missing in Original manuscript, missing in other versions but present in KJV

mark 11 v 26
acts 8 v 37

On issue of plagiarization, I would get them for you later and its a promise.

- How do you know something has been plagiarised without an original copy.

When they are not same authors but have same message despite the time frame

- What is your perfect frame of reference for your conclusions.

My posts speak it all. Decipher the truth yourself

- Is the corruption of the original message the same thing as when you said the original message was lost or are you talking about something different in this case.

Dont put words in my mouth. The bible you are holding is not the message given to Jesus, Moses etc. Dont you understanfd when they say something is not in its original state?

- When did the corruption of the original message happen according to the Quran or Mohammed or Allah or anyone else for that matter.

I wouldnt know but its glaring from your book thats its corrupt and it happened after Jesus' demise.

- How did the corruption of the original happen according to the Quran or Mohammed or Allah or anyone else for that matter.

No such story in the Quran but the prophet made me know that it is corrupt, as well as Quran too. If you read the bible, you would realise the truth.

- When was it revealed that the original message has been corrupted, was it before the birth of Mohammed or during the lifetime of Mohammed or after his death.

After the demise of Jesus. Why repetition

The Bible was written on earth by inspired men(under inspiration of the Spirit) over thousands of years (and not in one single day).
Also, yes there are translations of the bible from one language (Greek, Latin, English, Yoruba etc) to another, hence that some of the english translations have translation problems, considering that the ancient manuscripts are still available to correct any translation problems. Unless people seek to be mischevious, its easy to understand that even though errors in translations are corrected overtime, nevertheless no corrections are made to the original manuscripts overtime, hence since the ancient words remain true and uncorrupted contrary to your assertions, hence its easy to see the falsehood in the assertions that the bible has errors.

For example, a typical translation problem that can be encountered can be seen even from the Yoruba language, provided proper context and alphabet ascents are not taking into account.

Yoruba - "Babatunde ni oko nla"
English translation 1 -  Babatunde has a big penis.
English translation 2 -  Babatunde has a big farm.
English translation 3 -  Babatunde has a big stone.

Dont deceive yourself. Read my post and the links supplied.

So my questions to you are:

- Who wrote the Quran.

Its Allah revelation to Muhammed (saw)

- Where was the Quran written (was it on earth or in the spiritual realm).

On earth of course.

- When was the Quran Written.

Would give you story of the Quran later

- Was any human being involved in the writing of the quran.

Yes

- Is the Quran perfect written.

Yes.

- Were there ever different any diagreeing copies of the Quran.

Nope

- Can the Quran be translated into English.

Yes

- Are there english translation problems with the Quran.

Its not the same as Arabic Quran due to translation problem.

Would continue when less busy.

I wonder why Blabs is ignoring my question -

davidylan:

[size=16pt]But WHERE is this torah and injil that the creator sent? Surely they cant be the corrupt ones we carry now right? For that would imply that allah LIED when he claimed he would protect them.

Now why are your copies lost?[/size]

Why wont he produce this Torah and Injil that he claims allah sent down? Hmmm . . .

babs787:

[size=18pt]Moses the Torah, David the Pslam and Jesus the Injil(Gospel)[/size]

but where are these books? why are they absent from the quran? Who stole allah's books?

@Davidylan, I didnt evade your question but want to respond to the post in the order they came,to finish with No2.theism,move to Olaadegbu and finally to you but since you are impatient,I would answer you as it happens to be one of your recycled questions. The Quran contains both revelations but if you are not satisfied,you may what do the revelations to Moses,Jesus contain?

babs787:

@Davidylan, I didnt evade your question but want to respond to the post in the order they came,to finish with No2.theism,move to Olaadegbu and finally to you but since you are impatient,I would answer you as it happens to be one of your recycled questions. The Quran contains both revelations but if you are not satisfied,you may what do the revelations to Moses,Jesus contain?

I'm not sure you understood my question - WHERE is the torah, injil and psalms allah sent down IN THE QURAN?

@thiefofheart,am sorry if I sound/post like version of David,Todak etc,they murdered sleep and that is the reason I said 'its strictly for them'. Go to my section and read from them and if you are observant, I have not been posting in your section except rebuttal to those that concerns my faith. Read through posts and you would find answer to your question. I believe respect is reciprocal. You dont expect me to fold my arms when they deflect threads,insulting my God,messenger,religion as a result of not being knowlegeable enough. The earlier they desist,the better for them and I am ready to debate with four of them put together.

Blabs . . . [size=18pt]WHERE is the torah, injil and psalms allah sent down IN THE QURAN?[/size]

Afterall you claimed this -

babs787:

Olodo, do Torah, Injil, Quran not come from the same creator?

Where are the copies from this phantom "creator"?

where is blabs?

Just when i thot he had a straight forward answer.

@Dauda, I am very busy would attend to you. Torah, Injil etc make up the Quran. They are in the Quran and form part of same and I do hope you are not trying to divert the thread which you are well known for

babs787:

@Dauda, I am very busy would attend to you. [size=18pt]Torah, Injil etc make up the Quran.[/size] They are in the Quran and form part of same and I do hope you are not trying to divert the thread which you are well known for

Pls show me.

@Davidylan

Please before showing you, kindly tell me what Torah and Injil contain. I need it ASAP

@No2atheism

Last part of your questions

- In your opinion, what is the pentateuch.
the Pentateuch?

The first five books of the Old Testament

Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy

- In your opinion, what is the Torah

Its the Hebrew word meaning teaching and God gave the teaching to Moses called Torah of Moses.

- Is the Torah the same thing as the Pentateuch.

Yes

- What do you understand by the meaning of the English word called "Revelation".

The art of revealing or disclosing something not previously known

- Who told you NT is a revelation given to the Messiah

God didnt give Jesus [b]NT[/b] but a gospel or Injil.

- Who in your opinion gave the revelation to the Messiah.

God gave Jesus Injil or Gospel and not [b]NT[/b]

- How do you know the NT is adulterated

I have this in one of my earlier rejoinders. God didnt give Jesus NT but Injil, gospel and not Gospels. Words therein are mostly 3rd party narration and written after his demise.

- Who adulterated the NT

Your authors just like I have provided you link. Mind you, God didnt give Jesus Gospels but a gospel.

- When was it adulterated.

After Jesus' demise

- If the NT is not 100% the Word of the Creator, then what percentage of it is the truth and what percentage of it is lies.

I didnt calculate sir

- Can you please identify the parts of the NT that are true and the parts that are lies.

Part of direct words ascribed to Jesus are true while some are not and examples are the unfulfilled prophecies etc. Words of the acclaimed gospellers are not 100% true because they didnt witness his testimony but claimed to have been handed the story, eg Luke


Finally,

- Is the Creator in the Bible the same as the allah in Quran

Nope. The Creator of the Quran is the same as the of Torah and Injil. God didnt send bible to any of his messengers and prophets

- What is the name of the Creator in the Bible

I wouldnt know. All I know is that Allah sent the Torah to Moses, Injil to Jesus and Quran to Muhammed, so I am not aware of the bible.

- What is the name of the creator in the quran

.

Allah

- What are the titles of the Creator in the bible.

Genesis to Revelation huh, 66 books in protestant while 73 in catholic bible

- What are the titles of the creator in the quran.

We have 114 chapters and the name is given according to the occurence and the reason for the name is in every chapters

[quote]Babs787 and others, abeg i take Mukina, Aisha, Sadia, Kadijat and Mutiat beg you, please make your answers simple and lets try and engage in a civil and simple question and answer session. In fact you can choose to write "No Answer" to the any question you choose not to answer.

[/quote]

Done that

Thank you

U r welcome dude

why is blabs ignoring simple questions?

babs787:

@Davidylan

Please before showing you, kindly tell me what Torah and Injil contain. I need it ASAP

No dude, the torah and injil we have is corrupt (according to muslims) so it could NEVER have come from allah. I am asking specifically for allah's copy. The one he claimed to have "sent down and confirmed". surely some mullah has it.

thank you for a speedy response.

@Dauda

My friend

No dude, the torah and injil we have is corrupt (according to muslims) so it could NEVER have come from allah. I am asking specifically for allah's copy. The one he claimed to have "sent down and confirmed". surely some mullah has it.

You dont have Torah given to Moses but what you have is Old Testament. You dont have the Gospel of Jesus but gospels 'according to' containing letters of Paul, dream of John in revelation in the holy book given to Jesus If you are able to tell me what the Torah and Injil as given to them contain, then I wold be able to show in the Quran. If you cant do that for me, The Quran contains The Torah, Injil put together.

thank you for a speedy response.

You are welcome Dauda nackson

babs787:

@Dauda

My friend

You dont have Torah given to Moses but what you have is Old Testament.

Fair enough. You said allah sent you a torah . . . infact he even made this claim himself in the quran. where is it?

babs787:

You dont have the Gospel of Jesus but gospels 'according to' containing letters of Paul, dream of John in revelation in the holy book given to Jesus

Fair enough. I'd like to read the injill allah sent. thank you.

babs787:

If you are able to tell me what the Torah and Injil as given to them contain, then I wold be able to show in the Quran. If you cant do that for me, The Quran contains The Torah, Injil put together.

That is mischievous and typical of the islamic liars . . . Christians have never claimed to have been "given" a torah or injil . . . allah ALONE made this claim. where is it?

Dauda,wats the first five book of the OT called? Are you saying there's nothing like Torah?

babs787:

Dauda,wats the first five book of the OT called? Are you saying there's nothing like Torah?

Was that my question? where is allah's torah pls?

babs787:

@Olaadegbu

The sun sets into a muddy spring. Surah. 18:86

The Qur’anic statement is clearly metaphorical and understood same.


From the book of tafseer: means that Zul Qarnain followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in the direction of the sun’s setting, which is the west of the earth.

It is quite impossible for him to have reached wher the sun set.

“he found it setting in a muddy spring…” means that he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something that everyone who goes to the coast or beach can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea, but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed. The muddy spring or hami’a[/b]h is derived from the word [b]hama’ah which means ‘mud’.

I don't know why your translators prefer to use archaic English, I cannot call that Elisabeth English, since it was only translated recently. Do you think that if you imitate the King James English it will give more authencity and spirituality to the Qur'an, or is it to confuse the readers or all of the above? The verse in question is talking about someone journeying west. "He journeyed on a certain road until he reached the West and saw the sun setting in a pool of black mud." 18:86. Mo was not the first person to spread this false idea that the sun sets into a body of water it was an ancient notion that was a result of human imagination in those days that Mo imbibe into the Qur'an.

babs787:

Olaadegbu, since you have problem with that, do we say Queen of the South came from the ends of the earth as claimed by your bible in Luke 11 v31:

The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom, and now one[i] greater than Solomon is here. ?

"The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here." (Lk.11:31).

If you must imitate the language of the Bible you must first learn how to use figures of speech to describe a person who is on a journey.

babs787:

This is what I have in:
23:14

Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!

Read this for understanding:

Quran 23 v 12-14: "Man we did create From a quintessence (of clay); Then we placed him As ( a drop of) sperm In a place of rest, firmly fixed; Then we made the sperm Into a clot of congealed blood; Then of that clot we made A (foetus) lump; then we Made out of that lump Bones and clothed the bones With flesh; then WE developed Out of it another creature. So blessed be ALLAH, The Best to create!"

Or

Quran 22 v 5:
"we created you Out of dust, then out of Sperm, then out of a leech-like Clot, then out of a morsel Of flesh, partly formed And partly unformed."

In this day and age it will be ridiculous to present this as an scientific fact but no doubt it will make logical sense to those who believe in it dogmatically. Many of your al taquiyya does not hold up to scrutiny, partly because most errors in your book are actually borrowed from obviously bogus apocryphal work, legends, myths and folklore stories.


Surah 34:9 states "If We will, We can cause the earth to cave in beneath their feet or let fragments of the sky fall upon them" Hold it there, this idea that the heavens were composed of solid crystal spheres has long been made redundant, it was the common conception of the ancients, which makes the assertion of the inerrancy and inspiration of the Qur'an as questionable.

Surah. 18:9-26 has a fable of three boys and a dog who entered a cave, fell asleep and woke up 309 years later!! And that they appeared as if they had never fallen asleep! If one is to use a fable and declare it as coming from heaven one would expect that they would use the fable that is believable.

All I have been pointing out only refers to the historical and scientific errors noted, if I begin to point out the contradictions therein time will not permit me. Nevertheless, let me entertain you with the one I find most amusing, and this is in Surah 4:157,158 and 19:33

Surah 4:157,158 has Jesus definitely not dying but being called to Allah, this is also supported by one of the gnostic gospels, while in Surah 19:33 you have the statement that Jesus died and was raised from the dead. If this is not a contradiction then I don't know what it is.

Why is blabs finding it difficult to answer this ques?

Blabs . . . [size=18pt]WHERE is the torah, injil and psalms allah sent down IN THE QURAN?[/size]

^^^^ Gbam !!!!!

todak:


Thanks Olaadegbu, i had wanted to give it to him, one after the other, for proper clearance, so that he would not miss any of the hit and the sweet mouthed muhammad who claim to be spoken to by an angel. (angel of darkness). so thanks, but there are more from me. babs expect more but it will be one after the other, ok. GOd bless you Ola, and for my most argumentative slave of allah, i do not know what to say to greet you , oh oh oh oh , i can figure something, ok, in the name of allah, the most destructive, the most hater of mankind, and the inspirer of the likes of Khomieni, arafat, osama, i greet you. cheers!! , do not be offended, i saw not good thing in calling allah merciful or whatever jaguns you people say,

Amen.