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Stats: 1,349,939 members, 2,014,728 topics. Date: Sunday, 26 April 2015 at 10:02 PM
|Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by Orikinla(m): 8:26pm On Oct 06, 2006|
The so called Muslim groups who are raving over Jack Straw ‘s decision to politely ask Muslim women wearing a nikab(the veil covering the face)to unveil are ignorant of the fundamental tenets of true Islam. Some Islamic psychos and schizos just like picking quarrels at the slightest hint of any Western criticism of their erroneous practices of Islam.
Aisha bint Talha the sweetheart of Prophet Muhammad even went out without a veil!
Beyond the Near East, the practice of hiding one's face and largely living in seclusion appeared in classical Greece, in the Byzantine Christian world, in Persia, and in India among upper caste Rajput women. Muslims in their first century at first were relaxed about female dress. When the son of a prominent companion of the Prophet asked his wife Aisha bint Talha to veil her face, she answered, "Since the Almighty hath put on me the stamp of beauty, it is my wish that the public should view the beauty and thereby recognized His grace unto them. On no account, therefore, will I veil myself."
"Since the Almighty hath put on me the stamp of beauty, it is my wish that the public should view the beauty and thereby recognized His grace unto them. On no account, therefore, will I veil myself," said Aisha bint Talha
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by mickyarams: 9:07pm On Oct 09, 2006|
I think jack straw has made a good point by asking those s to get the veil off their face.I think it will be very difficult for anybody to communicate with someone you can't see.I am surprised when I travel on the streets of London and you see lots of muslim women dressed like Ninjas,this muslim people can't continue to have things done in their favour everytime and they should also remember that the uk is a christian nation.They have been given enough humanrights to practise their religion freely which I think should also be the same for christians living in arab countries, because I learnt it is an offense to practise christianity in countries like saudi arabia which i think is not fair at all.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by Jakumo(m): 6:37am On Oct 10, 2006|
In my opinion veils and masks ought to be banned entirely in the UK, and anyone who does not like that should go ahead and LEAVE the UK to return the phuk back to their goat-herding village in Pakistan or Retardistan where they can live in squalor and dress like a damn masquerade till they are blue in the face.
Masquerade outfits could be used by criminals to hide their identities while committing armed robberies for example, and no group of people in a SECULAR DEMOCRACY should be allowed to get so pompous as to assign themselves the right to walk the streets in disguise. If I walked into a London bank wearing a Mickey Mouse mask, I would expect the police to swarm in and take me down for questioning. The same should apply to the wearer of any disguise in a public place.
The only argument in favor of mask-wearing would be that some of those covered-up BMO's (Black Moving Objects) are in fact so amazingly ugly that their gorilla mugs are best covered up so as not to frighten the horses.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by ono(m): 7:19am On Oct 10, 2006|
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by mickyarams: 10:06pm On Oct 12, 2006|
wearing of veils amongst muslim women is a breach of security and should be banned in England.If blokes with hooded jackets are not allowed in a supermarket for security reasons,why then should a ninja also be allowed
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by Orikinla(m): 10:30pm On Oct 12, 2006|
I agree with most of the conclusions.
The same way they expect foreigners to abide by the Islamic rules in Saudi Arabia, Iran and other Islamic nations, they should abide by the instructions of the British government.
If Jack Straw wants to see your face, oblige and afterwards cover up again. Simple. No need to scream.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by Seun(m): 10:46pm On Oct 12, 2006|
All religions are man-made and subject to extreme differences of interpretation.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by Orikinla(m): 10:52pm On Oct 12, 2006|
Christianity is not man made.
God made me a Christian through His only begotten Son Jesus Christ our Messiah.
I know people who were never preached to by any human, but were converted directly by Jesus Christ in Nigeria and Pakistan.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by Seun(m): 10:57pm On Oct 12, 2006|
Alas, I don' want to go offtopic.
Here's a link that says more about the issue of veils:
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by Orikinla(m): 11:21pm On Oct 12, 2006|
I have been there and back.
Our discussions on the veils on Nairaland have been more interactive.
Even the producer of the World Have Your Say on the BBC called me yesterday for my opinion. And I told Priya Shah that Prophet Muhammad never commanded Muslim women to wear the niqab or the burqa.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by mickyarams: 6:40pm On Oct 15, 2006|
These muslim people are just trying to take the piss.Just on friday a muslim woman who is a teacher here in london was asked not to put her veil on while she's teaching,but she took that as an offence and started campaigning about her religion and race.I saw that as a complete madness,because I can't imagine myself being taught by someone i can't see.It's hihg time muslims all over the world started to live like civilized people and put all their religious poo behind them.I don't know why they are quick to take little things as an offence.It is very easy for me to start the 3rd world war now by just saying something rude about prophet mohammed.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by Orikinla(m): 7:59pm On Oct 15, 2006|
Muslims are now suffering from an ironical Persecution Complex. Because they want the rest of the world to see them as the victims. But they are actually holding the rest of the world hostage.
This prompted me to do the extensive research on the veil in Islam and then wrote my historical romance Unveil Me My Love to specifically address the issue.
The following is an extract from my story.
I had my bath and dressed up in my denim jacket and pants with leather shoes. I brought out the scroll from the chest and pushed the chest back under the bed. I put the scroll in my briefcase and left the house for King's Cross Station.
“Do you think this is the most conducive time to serialize this Islamic love story? With the raging storm over what Jack Straw said about the burqa?” The editor of Al-Sharq Al-Awsat said.
“Should be. Because, this should clear the doubts of all Muslims who felt offended by the decision of Jack Straw,” Anita said.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by olabowale(m): 10:12pm On Oct 15, 2006|
@Orikinla: Is Aisha Bint Abu Bakr (AS), the wife of Prophet Muhammad is the same as Aisha bint Talha? Please could you provide your proof that this two names ; Abu Bakr and Talha is the same person, because there is no record that the Noble prophet married two Aisahs.
I would not mind your sudden realisation of confusing the names. But please remember that in the Chapter named 'The confederates", in the Qur'an, Allah the Almighty gave commandment of covering of the women to His Messenger (AS). This commandment started with the wives of the prophets, then his daughters and lastly, the believing women in general.
Total covering, which I will call veilling for our purpose is commanded upon the wives of the prophet (AS), but it is a sunnah that the other groups of women can practice.
If you read the adith of Aisha bint Abu Bakr (RA), the mother of the believers, on the actions of the women in Madina, after this revelation came down, you will find that she said that they all cover up! Her expression was as total eclipse had fallen on madina!
You novel is just what you say it is; A fantastic and unimaginable 'FICTION". But you must speak the truth, when you intend to use the Qur'an or the Hadith to inform us of any subject matter.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by olabowale(m): 10:55pm On Oct 15, 2006|
@Orikinla: I went to your website> I read as much as you put out from your "Unveiling book and Scarlet rose of London' books.
I wonder if the Muslims leadership in Nigeria realised that they are dealing with their enemy. At least that is how you come across, since you called Islam anti christ! Ubfortunately, you used vulgar language with your christian brother, who has a different view point with you on the Pope's statement.
I am not really concern about your thought of Islam. Unfortunately, the muslim rioters in Nigeria, in particular, since this is where you have problem have given you a carte blanche, to say whatever. Unfortunately, the true Islam is in the Qur'an and the Sunnah. before you can understand Islam, you need at least two essential ingredients; After accepting Islam, you need a pure heart and the will to acquire beneficial knowledge. Unfortunately, inthe ranks of the muslims, you have hypocrites, ordinary muslims and the true believers.
As to your references to saudi and Iran, as societies that do not allow others to practice their religions, you must know that neither society is a true Islamic society. However, I have met Iranian Jews and Christians who were government scholars during my my University days in America. You still have a good size of non muslims in many so called muslim societies in North Africa and the Middle east, etc. In Morrocco, you have Jews, who went back after the so called migration of the Jews to Israel. Under saddam Hussein, the Vice President of Iraq, was a christian. There are pleanty of Jews and Christians in Syrian, Jordan and others. In the ruling cabinet of Palestine, you have Christians.
Unfortunately, your hatred, is so overwelmingly strong that you can not see beyong that partition, before you can get to the truth. I wonder the other day, and it became very clear that you wrote in Igbo, when Babyosisi was trying to know from you why all the sexuality. Killing is evil, as long as it is done without justice. Whether it is done by a person, a community, a weak nation or a powerful one, on an individual, a group of people or on a nation. Evil is what it is.
I, as a praciticing muslim, hates and I have spoken about unjust killing in Nigeria on this board, in other places and I have spoken about the darfur Issues, etc. Unjust killing is all around us. It includes Muslims, Christians and Jews, as perpetrators and victims.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by Orikinla(m): 9:05pm On Oct 16, 2006|
Every Islamic scholar knows that Aisha bint Abu Bakr is the same as Aisha bint Talha.
"Since the Almighty hath put on me the stamp of beauty, it is my wish that the public should view the beauty and thereby recognized His grace unto them. On no account, therefore, will I veil myself"- said Aisha bint Talha.
Aishah said to the prophet:
“This is my niece. Then he said if any girl has attained the age of puberty and has her menses, it is inadmissible for her to reveal any parts of her body, except her face”.
I will not argue the content of Unveil Me My Love with anyone who is not well informed on the facts of Islamic history.
I did my research before writing the historical romance.
The only fictional character is the Abyssinian narrator. And Abyssianians were among the soldiers of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by olabowale(m): 11:03pm On Oct 16, 2006|
@Orikinla: Please review your entry of October 6, at the top on this page. In the entry, you had a quote in it. In the quote, you called Aisha bint Talha as the wife of one of the companions of the prophet (AS). Now. you are just telling me that Aisha bint Talha is the same as Aisha bint Abu Bakr, the wife of prophet Muhammad (AS).
What is the real situation? If one is to believe your entries on this subject, believing ythat your research is thorough, we will come to the following conclusions; That Aisha was married when sha and her husband came to the prophet, whereby she said that she had to be unveiled because she is praising God by it. Abu Bakr, the father of Aisha bint Abu Bakr, Saujati Muhammad (AS) is the daughter of Talha. That Talha is Abu Bakr. That sometimes in the future of Aisha, she divorced her husband, the companion of Muhammad (AS). Then she married the prophet (AS).
With all these ideas that your writing has raised, a fairly knowledgeable MUslim will wonder if Aisha was married before she married the prophet. It could not be because she was the only wife he married, who was a virgin! There is an adith about this. Also, she used it as a source of her conversation with Fatima bint Muhammad (AS)! People are either telling you fallacies, or you are telling us fallacies or both! Inshort, your story is a fantastic imagination.
Since you do not know the first thing about Islam, I am not really surpried. A willing student in Islam will refer to Qur'an and Sunnah about Islamic matters. You will not find where any of the wives of the prophet wanted to expose herself, without being rebuked by Alla. You will not find anywhere that will give you any inkling that Aisha bint Abu Bakr married any body else, before marrying Muhammad (AS) or after the death of Muhammad (AS).
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by Orikinla(m): 11:22pm On Oct 16, 2006|
Aisha was already meant to be married to someone else before the prophet came for her when she was only 6. And she actually complained about the marriage.
Why not read my latest post on http://scarlettearsoflondon.blogspot.com/
and read Unveil Me My Love before jumping to conclusions from the fractions you only glanced at.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by olabowale(m): 12:19am On Oct 17, 2006|
@Orikinla: You tend to forget, conveniently that the family of the former fiance of Aisha was the one who broke the engagement. The reason was that Abu Bakr and his family all became muslims. No one on this board, have reconcile with the condition that Aisha was born many years before her father became Muslim. Her father became muslim, in the first year of Islam. Prophet Muhammad (AS) did not comsumate the marriage with her till 2AH. Of course, this would be the 15th year of revelation. How then was Aisha 6 or 9!
Really, what I am contending with you on is that Aisha bint Abu Bakr, the wife of Muhammad, the prophet of God, never was the same as Aisha bint Talha. Since you listed bint Talha as being married with her husband when her husband complained about her not wanting to wear the veil!
You will need to proof to us that Abu Bakr is also Talha. You will need to convince us that Aisha bint talha, who you claimed to have been married, (not engaged and that the engagement was broken by the future husband), was also Aisha bint Abu Bakr, Ummuh Muminoon. The questions are many, but you need to give us, the nairalanders either Aisha bint Abu Bakr you are really writing about or some otherr Aisha. From all the broken up and disjointed entries, it is very obvious that The wife of Muhammad, who is also the daughter of Abu Bakr is not bint talha and was never married before she married the prophet (AS).
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by olabowale(m): 12:29am On Oct 17, 2006|
@Orikinla: To be a Scholar in Islam, it is not just the Ph. D., alone. It comes with a lot of scholarship and tremendious life experience! Maybe you are talking to at best lightweight Islamic student. Plus the heart have to be pure, devoid of all kind of antiIslamic notion to understand Islam. If a person like you call Islam, antichrist, then I am not really surprised to see that you see thing standing on top of its head. But you forgot that in the Qur'an and in the Hadith, Jesus (AS) and his mother were praised, more that you will ever see in the Bible. You also did not pay attention to the many miracles in the Qur'an recorded for Jesus, which you do not have the same in the Bible!
How do you reconcile this position?
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by davidylan(m): 5:07am On Oct 17, 2006|
Easy! Someone is definitely lying somewhere! It is easier for me to believe the bible that is actually corroborated by divine inspiration, history, witnesses and archeaology than the rantings of a murderer and pedophilic idol worshipper!
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by Orikinla(m): 9:01am On Oct 17, 2006|
You want me to give away everything in my story.
If I tell you my fiction is fact, then I am a liar.
You want me to turn my fiction into factual history?
Aisha bint Talha was actually the niece of Aisha bint Abu Bakr.
She was the grand daughter of the first caliph Abu Bakr.
This was confirmed at the end of Unveil Me My Love when some Islamic scholars called it another Arabian Nights fantasy and Babbi Olamide who discovered the scroll in Ethiopia knew it had some deliberate distortions by the Abyssinian author who was trying not to offend the caliph.
“Yes. But some Islamic clerics are already disputing the authenticity of the manuscript,” she said.From Unveil Me My Love.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by olabowale(m): 11:24am On Oct 17, 2006|
@Orikinla; I have no more responses. You have proven my xase. Your Book is exactly waht you said it is, Fiction! I guess it is fast and easy way to make a buck. The Bernum of the Ringling brothers, Bernum and Bailey circus fame, used to say that a fool is born every hour! In this case of your book readers, aevery minute. My problem with your book is the slight of hand dimension you put in it. Using Islamic names connotes to the untrained minds in Islam that book is probably true, not fiction. Since you centralized your book around the family of the noble prophet (AS), this is my object to your book.
It should be the objection of every fair minded individuals, muslims and non muslims, alike. In Islam and every in every ethical viewpoint, a gain from something like this is tainted. The reward may be dire with God! In Brooklyn, where I pray, it is on Fulton Street and Bedford. On the Bedford side of the building, there are shops. The last shop as you are heading to Fulton street, the shopowner has his picture when he was in his late twenties. He had a very radient look, with long flowing hair and a full beard. He had a shawl around his shoulder, given an impression of a city dweller from the middle east. If you see this picture, yo will find a very close resemblance to how Jesus (AS) was described to the muslims. You will not find a great difference in the imageries that the christians had come to believe of Jesus and this picture of my friend.
In conclusion, he keeps the picture away from easy sight of his customers! The reason for this is that, he does not want to give anyone, especially the christians who patronize him, any connection at the glance of this picture and Jesus. He said to me, "if I allow something like this to happen in the heart or mind of anyone, God may punish me!" Orikinla, do you fear God?
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by Orikinla(m): 11:57am On Oct 17, 2006|
I fear the God who is the author, creator, maker and owner of the whole universe who sent His only begotten Son Jesus Christ to be our redeemder, saviour and Messiah.
To know the truth about Islam, please see http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter5a/2.html.
Islam was a religion based on the distortion of the Holy Bible. And over 1 billion people have been led astray in ignorance.
The worst ignorance is the ignorance of the truth.
Jesus Christ has said it all.
1"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God[a]; trust also in me. 2In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going."
Jesus the Way to the Father
5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
John 14:1-7 (New International Version)
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by olabowale(m): 12:46pm On Oct 17, 2006|
@Orikinla: I went to your recommended website. Thank you. I know about Muha wiya, already! If he is who you based your knowledge of Islam on, then, I can see why you will even believe that the Qur'an is based on the Bible. One will as, if this is having any possibility of being any truth to it, which Bible version are we talking about here? Neither you nor any christian, including my baby, Babyosisi, can give me an answer! (I am trying to draw Babyosisi and any civilized person into the discussion. I will not respond to any of those foul mouthed people!).
The pattern of revelation of the Qur'an, its duration of revelation, the immediate writing of it down and being learnt for the various usages, among the Muslim community is very different from the Bible! The stories of Ibrahiim, Ismail, Isiaq, Yaqub, Yusuf, Musa, Haruun, Zakariya, Yahya, Isa and the other prophets (AS) are very detailed inthe Qur'an and very different from that of the Bible!
I wonder, how Muhammad (AS), the 'Unlettered", can talk about Jesus (AS), if it has been that his source of information is the Bible/christendom, how can the Qur'an narration be so superior and very detailed, containing far more information?
This is just one example! In some cases, the Bible only vaguely mentioned a noble person, eg Ismail (AS), where the Qur'an gives you a great more. You should read suratul baqarah and see a clear difference of the calf in Qur'an and the Bible!
My Jewish blood Muslim brother Musa Cohn, memorized this chapter! He said that it speaks ro him, in the fact that it is about the condition of the children of Israel. How come Abdullah Abdulsalaam, a Jewish companion, Shuib al Rum, Salman Al Farsi, two noted former christian companions (RA), to just named a few were very satisfied with the religion, the book and leadership of Muhammad (AS)? How is that it is written inthe Qur'an that the Jews and the christian worship their leaders, and hearing this a new Muslim said to the prophet (AS0, in christianity, we do not worship our leader. The response of the prophet was very simple and very direct; Do not you follow your leader, who when they make what is commanded to be halal, haram and what is haram, hala? The reply was yes. The prophet then said to him that this is worship! I ask you now, do you follow the whole Book and Laws given to Musa (AS)? Did Jesus (AS), himself not follow the same pattern of Musa?
Did not Jesus say that his mission, in part, was to fulfil every essence of the book and laws of Musa! Why are you deviating, from the path of the truth?
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by Orikinla(m): 1:38pm On Oct 17, 2006|
You think I just woke up and wrote my Unveil Me My Love?
I believe you are educated enough to read between the lines to know that Unveil Me My Love is a romantic metaphor of unveiling the truth and removing the veil that has covered millions of ignorant Muslims from the truth as clearly addressed below and you cannot dispute your own Al Qu'ran.
Is it not amazing that I wrote about my fictional Hassan who was close to your prophet and later left for Abyssinia (Ethiopia) and here is a similar historical fact?:
Then came along Ubaydallah, the grandson of Abd al-Muttalib and Muhammad’s cousin brother. As Ubaydallah was a Hanif, surely Muhammad had learned a lot of good materials on Hanifism from him. Muslim historians claim that Ubaydallah converted to Muhammad’s religion and migrated to Ethiopia , then he left Islam and embraced Christianity and died there as a Christian. So another contributor of the Christian and Hanif stuff in the Qur’an was definitely Ubaidallah. After Waraqa, Khadijah and Ubaydallah died Muhammad simply incorporated in the Qur’an what he had heard/learned from them.
The Qur’an mentions them 3 times in the following verses:
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by olabowale(m): 12:07pm On Oct 18, 2006|
@Orikinla: I will start to answer your assertions by saying this; Is it you that know best or is Allah, your Creator and mine's?
Your last topic about the Prophet (AS), saying that he say Jibril only two times in its TRUE ANGELIC form is true. However, Muhammad saw Jibril in many forms, including in the form of complete stranger, that bore no slight resemblance with any of his companions(RA)! One of that such visits was witnessed by a good number of the companions, which included, Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali bin AbiTalib (RA). This was in the event known as hadith of Jibril; He came to teach you your religion.
Another time, was after he had been stoned and was bleeding all over his noble body. This was the cruelty of such disbelieving people at that time and the inhabitant of Taif epitomized it, very well. Jibril and the Angel of the mountain came to him, with clear instruction from their Lord to obey Muhammad's command and assist him in all his needs. The Angel of the mountain wanted to destroy the inhabitant of taif. Muhammad in his kindness said no. Today taif is totally Islamic. The Angels, both Jibril and The Angel of Mountain did not look like any of the companions!
When he was on his dying bed was another. Jibril and the Angel of death came to him. Jibril had kept the Angel of death waiting outside, while he entered the chamber of the noble soul (AS), to tell him about his accompanying visitor. He also told Muhammad (AS), that the Lord of all Creations, has given the option to remain on earth, till end f time, if he chosed that over death. Muhammad, wanted death right away. The reasons are many from the Qur'an and his statement; From the Qur'an, Allah says that every soul shall taste death. From Muhammad statement when Jibril and Angel of death came to him, he was reported saying 'to Best Friend, to Best Friend'. In a statement that he said in the past that support this 'Best Friend' statement alluding to God, the Almighty as his best friend is that he had told Abu bakr in a gathering, that if Allah has not taken him as a bossom buddy, 'Best Friend', the same that Ibrahiim (AS) is to Allah at Ibrahiim's time, he Muhammad (AS), would have taken Abu bakr (RA) as best friend!
Muhammad (AS), having been known among the makkans as truthful and trustworthy man, even when they became his enemies, their view as above did not change, there was no reason for him to lie! Your assertion therefore, that why did he not say that those times that Jibril(AS) appeared to him looking like some member of his companions, that the companions were Jibril do not make any sense! Is it not true that you may not be the only person from your family or in this whole wide world who has your look? There are some who probably could pass as you, but that does not mean that they are you. Muhammad (AS) knew the difference between Jibril, the Angel and his earthly companions (RA). Afterall, he say Jibril alone and in the companies of other Angels, indeed when he Muhammad (AS), was alone or in the companies of other, while he was still ayouth, before and during his proplethood. Finally, Muhammad used to recite to Jibril, what evr of the Qur'an that was already revealed in the month of Ramadan. the recitation was one time throughout the month, except in the last ramadan of muhammad on earth. This recitation was two times. By the way Jibril will recite just like the same amount and way that Muhammad recited to him.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by olabowale(m): 1:28pm On Oct 18, 2006|
@Orikinla: You have claimed that Muhammad (AS) plagirised other world religions books, in writing the Qur'an! Have you not read in the Qur'an wher Allah, categorically retuted any and all of those assertions? How then is it possible that Muhammad (AS), will boldly and uncompromisingly say that the Old and New testaments are already corrupted, it it was true that he borrowed from these books? Did you not read in the Qur'an, since you have laid claim to it that you have studied it extensively, where God, Allah the Almighty states that if this were from man you would have seen much discrepancies in it? I am going to recommend a book to you, if you wish to know about the method of the revelation and the collection of it. This is only an introduction. The totality of knowledge belongs to The Only One GOD! This book is called Introduction to the Science of Qur'an, translated into English by Jamal Zarabozo. It is published in Colorado, USA.
I wonder how the former scholars of Judaism, in Makka converted to Islam, if Islam and Muhammad were know from their former religious books? Abdullah ibn Abdulsalaam and those among the Jewish blood who became muslims were not forced to become Muslims! Infact, at the time of their convertion, Muhammad and his small band of believers were not in the majority in Madina. The former jews did not claim that they helped Muhammad in 'the revelation'of the Qur'an at anytime! Just because that Islam is different from Jewish religion and Christianity and others, does not mean that there is no truth in any of their books. It just simply means that for the books of the Jews and Christianity, you have corruptions imbedded, either by texturally, changing the word from its original text, removing or adding portions or other ways. Inshort, it change its exact original text, as it was revealed to the Prophets, Musa, Daud and Isa (AS)! General meaning does not cut it. Who among mankind that has the authority to change God's exact instruction to us, if the individual truly believes in Him?
Did you read the story of Abdullah bin Abdalsalaam convertion to Islam? You need to read it. You also must know that a person can claim to believe, only from the lips. The heart may say differently. This is why you may have someone, claim to be something, but the actions emmanated point completely opposite! AlNagashi of Ethiopia/Abbyssinia, became Muslim. All that was read to him was the truth about Jesus (AS) and his Mother Mariam. He salatul ghaib was said to him by prophet Muhammad (AS) and his Makkan companions (RA), while they were still in makka, upon Alnagashi's death! How did Muhammad know, about the death of Alnagashi, right away, considering the physical distance between them?
I have to remind you here, which is what I should have done in my last entry, about the Night Journey of muhammad (AS) from Makka to Jerusalem. And from Jerusalem to the Heavens and beyound! His return was in the same patter as above. All of these in one Night! You will read about it in Suralul Israa and Suratul najm. In essence, Jibril came to him and took him to Ka'aba, where his bosom/chest was cut open and his heart was taken out and washed with Zam zam water and filled up with Iman! This was the second time that his chest was cut open. At first, it was with the Bedouin family who took him to raise him in the oral culture. You should read his history/Seerah up to his youth with the journey to syria for good knowledge about this man. Jibrilgave him aBuraq to mount and they arrived in jerusalem, almost immediately. When they dismounted, inthe assembly of the noble soul that he entered were the prophets and Messengers before him! All of the without any exception; From Adam, the father of mankind (AS), to Nuh (AS), through him the world was ended with flood, except a few believers with him, to Ibrahiim (AS), the father of all prophetsthat came after him, to Musa (AS), who Allah spoke to, hearing God's words directly, but alway behind a veil and Isa ibn Mariam (AS)! There was a prayer made ther at the Masjid Aqsa complex, at this occassion. All the prophets and messengers and Jibril the Angel of God (SWA) prayed behind Muhammad (AS). Salah was already compulsory on Muhammad immediately, upon the first revelation, even though, the Muslims did not begin to pray, obligatorily until they arrived in madina. From this place, in Jerusalem, Muhammad and Jibril assended to heavens. It was at this event that God gave Muhammad the five salah! the story is very long,you can research it thoroughly for your own Soul, so that you will be benefitted with guidance.
As Muhammad reurned to the earth and set out on the return to Makka, he encountered some caravan returning to Makka from their trading. Of cource, the could not see him because of their condition. One of their camels laden with the materials purchased in the trading expedition saw him as be travel in the space and the animal got loose and ran into the wilderness. Muhammad drank from their water skin and they heard his voice about the position of the scared animal! As he arrived in Makka and told about this Night Journey, some Muslims left Islam, because they could not believe it! However, Abu bakr was told this event by the people who were intending to ridicule him by it. Even without seeing Muhammad and hearing it directly from him, Abu bakr said that if Muhammad said it, I Abu bakr believe it! The reason was that there were even bigger events happening to Muhammad (AS), in the form of the revelations, , all the time, bein alone or in company of others! None of the Companions had claimed that during any of the Qur'anic revelations which they witness, they had seen the Angel who is given him the revelation from Allah!
However,they know the signs of it. In one occassion, he was resting his head on the thigh of one of his companions. However, when the revelation began, the companion said that the head begame very heavy that he felt that his thigh bone was going to be crushed! This was such the phenomenon of Revelation, something that neither you nor me, nor any one after Jesus (AS) experienced, until Muhammad's. And none will ever experienced it among mankind.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by olabowale(m): 1:53pm On Oct 18, 2006|
@Orikinla: As per your statement that Muhammad (AS) was ever an Idol Worshipper, is wrong. Please raed about his story from the time that his parent got married and up to the time of first revelation. You will find that your statement is wrong. Muhammad and all Muslims are hanifans. I am a hanifan, for example. Muslim male and female rae named Hanif or Hanifa! You should go and read up on the defination of hanif. In Suratul An am, Ibrahiim states he is a hanifan by calling himself the defination of hanifan; My prayer and my deeds, my life and death are all for The lord of the Worlds. I declare that I am the first to submit my will totally and completely, to God in Islam. hanif is simply the iconoclasic quality of total belief, which negates any and all type(S) of disbelief. Khadijatul Kubra (RA), was the first to believe in the Islam of Muhammad. She say the truth, she took it boldly, even at the peril of status and wealth! Waraqa, her cousin, also knew that Muhammad was given the office of prophethood, this is why he said if he were to remain alive, when the condition becomes very defined, probably look at the other signs of messengership (May God forgive me if I say something out of order in this statement). Messengers and prophets are persecuted, always, waraqa, died not seeing all that muhammad (AS), went through to established Islam! Did Muhammad became wealth and the king of Arabia by this? No. Muhammad died as a very poor man, not being able to acquire wealth or eat properly, always, yet he never stopped doing the work the was commissioned to do!
If Muhammad plagirised the Bible, why are the stories that the books have in common so different, whereby the Qur'anic versions are very detailed and overwelming?
For example, my Hindu associates have told me that they have cross and trinity in their religion. My question to you is this, did christianity copied it, directly from the book of the Hindu, since Hinduism has been around much longer than Judaism? Just because someone is a pagan, Islam does not discard the person, but you may discard his ways that makes him an unbeliever.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by Orikinla(m): 2:18pm On Oct 18, 2006|
I took time to read you thoroughly.
As I can see that the thread is now Orikinla Versus the Sura of Olabowale. Others are scared of this debate.
I am still researching and so I will read the book you have recommended.
Our discussions have led me to revise and edit my Unveil Me My Love before publishing it in a new version on http://www.lulu.com/content/474814.
But I stand by the Word of God from Genesis To Revelation in the Holy Bible.
I have a personal relationship with Jehovah and not through my father or anybody, except through the Holy Spirit. Because, my father was an Ifa Priest and also an Ogun worshipper until he was saved from the falsehood of Satan.
I won't argue the theology of your religion with you beyond this point. Because, we have digressed from the issue of the veil to the unveiling of our belief systems.
Read Unveil Me My Love and tell me what you think. The hardcover would be best for your library.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by olabowale(m): 2:30pm On Oct 18, 2006|
@Orikinla: The three verses of the Qur'an that talks about Jewish and Christianand other religious scriptures believe, are not saying that if you believe in each one of them, today and die not accepting the Qur'an and Islam, instead that you will go to paradise. No. From one of the verses, you have the answer, because said that He willjudge between them in the day of Judgement.
This simply means that there was a time that Torah was pure. At least, when Musa (AS0, was receiving it and those who followed him then were true believers. When the Musa died, sometime after this, the Torah began to see corruptions entered into it. Then Isabin Mariam (AS) came and began to receive his revelation. At this time, the truth that remain in the Toral, Jesus was practicing it along with his 'New' revelation. All the children of Israel were supposed to follow him, as the ambassador to the rest of the world after their proper education from him. We all know that the large population of this people did not accept him. During his earthly life, whoever followed him were also true believers.
Later on, after he has been lifted to his Lord (YOu do believe in this event, don't you?), corruption began to enter into his revelation, just as it had entered into the revelation of Musa (AS). When Muhammad (AS), began his miniostry, the Jews and Christians saw the signs of prophethood in him, a lot of those from this accepted his religion, knowing it to be in the same truth as the Puritan condition of Musa and Isa revelations and religion! But a larger group did not accept him.
Why is it that you have Jews in Madina and just a handful in other towns, before the arrival of Muhammad? The Jews knew from their book that a prophet will be raised up in Madina. They thought, the prophet will come from them, since the line of prophethood had remained with them for many centuaries. They also believed that the prophet will fight only on their side, regardly what that side may be, truth of falsehood. It was a shock to them when the Makkan Arab, in the personage of Muhammad (AS), emerged as that prophet!
The person who first saw Muhammad (AS) arriving in Madina from makka was a Jewish Rabbi. In time, he asked Muhammad, as soon as he arrived in madina, to let him see his back. Muhammad (AS) showed him his back. On the skin betwen Muhammad's two shoulder blades, you find araised Impression, which is the sign of Prophethood/Messengership. Upon this Rabbi seeing this, he told this young companion that this is truly a prophet, but they as Jews will have to fight him all the way> A similar condition occurred, when Muhammad as a youth of less than 15 accompanied his guidian, his Uncle, Abi talib to Syria. On the way a Christian monk say the cloud in sky erading the coming of the party which the noble soul was in. When they entered this monks presence to eat, without Muhammad, who was sitting outside, he demanded that they brought him in for him to question this honored guest.
His Uncle claimed he was his father, which the christian monk said it was impossible, that at that age, both his parent should been dead, already. When he saw the sign of prophethood on Muhammad (AS), he asked his Uncle to return Muhammad to makka, immediately. He said that if the jews found him out they will try to kill him. In this wise, God the Almighty protected Muhammad! In the affiars of Muhammad, God Allah the Almighty is sufficient enough as a Witness.
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by olabowale(m): 2:46pm On Oct 18, 2006|
@Orikinla: I am not argueing with you. No. far from it. I am not an intelligent man nor smart. However, God will direct everyone of us as per the state of our Soul and then the muscle that is lodged between our bosoms.
On my mother side, they are royaly and one that is known throughout the Yorubaland and beyond because of their education and sphere of influence. From my father side, the name is well known amongst the elders of Ijebuland. However, Islam consumed my father's bloodline for many centuaries, just as early as Islam came to the Yorubas. Those amongst them who have deviated, i am asking God the Almighty Allah to return them as soon as possible. On my mother's side, we have islam getting to them, but they are more christian and still tradional at that. This is a big project for me. Only God can guide and tomorrow is far from being guarantted to anyone!
I want to ask you one question, though, in all the centuaries that Jesus had left the earth, has anyone in Christiandom seen the Holy spirit as the comforter that he used the male pronoun to qualify as he will lead you to all things, since Jesus (AS) did not by this statement in his own admition lead his companions to all things. I am not saying that Jesus could not, but it is clear that it was not part of his missionary! This is such the action of TRUE PROPHET. Never going beyond his prescribed duties nor derick in it!
|Re: Jack Straw Versus The Veil Of Aisha Bint Talha by Orikinla(m): 3:58pm On Oct 18, 2006|
I believe in the death on the cross (crucifixion), burial and resurrection on the third day of our Messiah Jesus Christ that was even written in the Old Testament thousands of years before he was born of the Virgin Mary by the conception of the Holy Spirit. And I believe in the ascension (lifting up to heaven) of Jesus Christ our Messiah. And I believe he is surely coming back again on the day of Rapture.
The Comforter Jesus Christ mentioned is not human. It is the Holy Spirit as he explained thoroughly from John 14-17 of the Holy Bible and on the Day of Pentecost as written in Acts 2, the Holy Ghost came as promised by Jesus Christ and as prophesied by Joel.
I have a covenant relationship with the Holy Spirit. Every true Christian must.
Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of our faith. And as he said on the cross, "It is finished".
I was wondering why Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had the time for so many wives (13) and concubines and even threatened to divorce them once? And why again did he attempt to commit suicide on the mountains Thubayr and Hira?
Here are more extracts from my novelette:
“I warn you O Muslims to be good to the Ansar (the Helpers, i.e., those residents of Medina who helped the Emigrants from Mecca). They have performed their duty well. Muslims will increase in number but Ansar will dwindle and be as salt in a meal.”
The prophet then anointed Abu Bakr to continue his messages. He retired to his inner chambers where his beloved wife Aishah nursed him with his bald head on her bosom. And she soon made him to regain his strength that at the break of dawn of twelfth of Rabi’ al-Awwal, he was even able to join us in the mosque. But he had to lean on Fadl and Thawban. When Abu Bakr saw the prophet, he quietly stepped back even without moving his head. But the last prophet of Allah/الله patted him on his shoulder and nodded that Abu Bakr should continue. Abu Bakr often glanced at the prophet who was sitting at his right hand side praying in solitude.
It was after the victory of Hunayn, that the prophet and I went up the Thubayr and Hira for fasting and praying. He often left me on Thubayr and would go to the Hira alone whilst I waited for him. Then during one of our retreats, he declared:
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