dolphinheart:

Trinitarians generally look to analyze statements in the scriptures, with the view of using those analysis to support their beliefs. but most times when those analysis are reviewed, it does not surpport their beliefs(whichever version they come up with).
Jesus is a god, the scriptures tells us that. But it also tells us that jesus has a god that he has always been subjected to, always obeyed and has always been loyal , doing that ones will. That that god is the almighty god, the supreme lord.
That is why it is said that he never thought of grasping that opportunity to claim equality cus he knows that that god is superior to him.
When he came to earth, he made no direct statement that he is equal to that god and he even made sure that his disciples know who he is in relation to that god. He made them know that that god commanded him to come to earth, that everything he does, has learnt and the glory of his activity belongs to that god, so that all may know that that god, the father sent him and that the father is the only true god.

Even after his ressurection when he said that all authority has been given to him, he made sure that his disciples know that he still has a god . On ascension to heaven and in the presence of that god sitted on a throne, he was told to sit at the right hand of his god, he was given a name , he was made better than his companions, but he was not made equal to his god, cus even after everything was made subject to him, he was still subject to that god that made everything subject to him.

Many people had tried to formulate different reasons and formular on why jesus is equal to god, some even went as far as trying to mistranslate the scriptures or alter the scrolls when making copies. But jehovah keep showing there works out .

John 17: 1-3
These words spake Jesus, and
lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father,(his god) the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify theejesus is gods son) 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh,(the power jesus had over humans was giving to him, at a time he did not have such power) that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they(humans, you and me) might know thee(father) the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.(jesus was sent by someone superior to him).

When you read the Gospels, appreciate the fact that when Paul said:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: [size=13pt]God was manifest in the flesh[/size], justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

DO YOU BELIEVE THE HIGHLIGHTED!

but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient
Philipians 2:7,8

he(Paul) meant every word.

When God was manifested in the flesh, the aspects of God and Man relationships should be evident!

Now considering your text, let's go a little further in vs 5:

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was

He did not say the, "glory which I had FROM Thee" but "WITH Thee".

Scholar8200:

When you read the Gospels, appreciate the fact that when Paul said:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: [size=13pt]God was manifest in the flesh[/size], justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

DO YOU BELIEVE THE HIGHLIGHTED!

I do not believe the highlighted cus the highlighted is an adulteration/ a mistranslation/a scribal error/ a false statement that has been inserted into the scriptures. The Greek word for God is not present in that verse.

but made himself of no reputation,

To show you that he was not 100% god while on earth.

and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient
Philipians 2:7,8

He was obedient when he was in heaven, he was obedient when he came to earth, he was obedient when he went back to the father as a spirit.
When all authority has been giving to him, he was still obedient to the one who gave him such authority. He never claimed equality with his father.

he(Paul) meant every word.

When God was manifested in the flesh, the aspects of God and Man relationships should be evident!

false translation.

Now considering your text, let's go a little further in vs 5:

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was

That was a request that was granted when he went back to heaven, he was exhaulted by his god and given a position beside his god, his father. He was beside his god .That was the vision Stephen saw when he was about to be killed.

He did not say the, "glory which I had FROM Thee" but "WITH Thee".

Jesus acknowledged that his glory comes from the father, these same glory some christians will partake in, it does not make them god or equal to god after sharing in the divine nature.

You quoted me, saw the points I brought out and the things I said jesus said, but you did not comment on them.

"Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death — even death on a cross!" Philippians 2:5-8

Emusan:


Imaging the @bold statement and you can even proud of it. Devil doesn't have shame at all.

You DELIBERATELY ADDED it just to make it supported your lies whereas that's not the actual meaning of the word. so you have to give AGATHOS in LUKE 18 A SPECIAL MEANING different from the way the same word was used in other places, God is watching you!

I even went further to help your ignoramus by giving the meaning of the two words (with a strong established Greek Dictionary) but instead for you to accept your error you're still trying to justify this plain lie, in fact Kalos is more deeper in meaning than Agathos as we see above.

Since you can openly deny Jesus being COMPLETELY GOOD, it's only God who can help you.

---

Let me add this Jesus didn't deny being called Good in that verse but only asked the gentle man a question why do you call me good?


Jesus wants the man to give him reason why he called him good which is a method Jesus wants to use to lead him to salvation.

And the rest of their conversations show that the man didn't trust Jesus enough as the good man he called him if not the man would've sold ALL HIS BELONGING AND FOLLOWED JESUS IF HE ACTUALLY BELIEVED THAT JESUS IS GOOD rather he left home sadden without supported his claim with fact.

False religion and tradition has affect you so much to the extent that you cant identify the person Jesus call " God" .

Why do you call me (jesus) good ? . He then clarify " Nobody (which include himself) is Good except God (the Father) alone" Luke 18:18,19

A perfect example of this is found at John 14:1

" Exercise faith in God [the Father], exercise faith also in me [ Jesus ]" .

Jesus always use " God " to identify his God And Father !!!

Everycase in the New Testament teaches Trinity. The case of the paralytic man who was let down the roof to Jesus. When Jesus saw the Faith of the man's friends, He said, "son, your sins are forgiven you". And the people around who heard this, reasoned in their hearts that, "Only God can Forgive sins". St. Mark 2: 1-12. This is practical Trinity.

dolphinheart:
I do not believe the highlighted cus the highlighted is an adulteration/ a mistranslation/a scribal error/ a false statement that has been inserted into the scriptures. The Greek word for God is not present in that verse.



To show you that he was not 100% god while on earth.



He was obedient when he was in heaven, he was obedient when he came to earth, he was obedient when he went back to the father as a spirit.
When all authority has been giving to him, he was still obedient to the one who gave him such authority. He never claimed equality with his father.

false translation.


That was a request that was granted when he went back to heaven, he was exhaulted by his god and given a position beside his god, his father. He was beside his god .That was the vision Stephen saw when he was about to be killed.


Jesus acknowledged that his glory comes from the father, these same glory some christians will partake in, it does not make them god or equal to god after sharing in the divine nature.

You quoted me, saw the points I brought out and the things I said jesus said, but you did not comment on them.

It's okay.

orisa37:
Everycase in the New Testament teaches Trinity.

no case in the new testament teach trinity. No case teaches that the father, jesus and holy spirit are equal.
Acts 2: 33,36:
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has
made this Jesus, whom you
crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”(but not almighty god)

The case of the paralytic man who was let down the roof to Jesus. When Jesus saw the Faith of the man's friends, He said, "son, your sins are forgiven you". And the people around who heard this, reasoned in their hearts that, "Only God can Forgive sins". St. Mark 2: 1-12. This is practical Trinity.

They reasoned in their hearts that only God can forgive sins, but jesus showed them with prove that he, the son of man, has the authority to forgive sins. This authority he was given.
This same authority was later extented to the disciples through the holy spirit and it did not make the disciples equal to God.
So Bro, the event is not practical trinity!

Acts 10: 38,42
how [b]God anointed Jesus of
Nazareth with the Holy Spirit
and power,[b] and how he went
around [b]doing good and
healing all who were under the
power of the devil, because
God was with him.......
He commanded us to preach to
the people and to testify that
he is the one whom God
appointed as judge of the
living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”.

dolphinheart:
no case in the new testament teach trinity. No case teaches that the father, jesus and holy spirit are equal.
Acts 2: 33,36:
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has
made this Jesus, whom you
crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”(but not almighty god)


They reasoned in their hearts that only God can forgive sins, but jesus showed them with prove that he, the son of man, has the authority to forgive sins. This authority he was given.
This same authority was later extented to the disciples through the holy spirit and it did not make the disciples equal to God.
So Bro, the event is not practical trinity!

Acts 10: 38,42
how God anointed Jesus of
Nazareth with the Holy Spirit
and power,[b] and how he went
around [b]doing good and
healing all who were under the
power of the devil, because
God was with him.......
He commanded us to preach to
the people and to testify that
he is the one whom God
appointed as judge of the
living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”.

You've just said it all..

Shabbat shalom!

johnw74:



Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God[theos], and the Word was God(theos).
The Greek for "God", and "the Word" in that verse that the English word comes from is "theos"
John would not have used the same word "theos" for God and the Word in that short sentence, if the word "theos" had a diffrent meaning in one of the two instances, he would have used a diffrent word.
John used "theos"-God for God, and he used "theos"-God for the Word.
jw change one of them to "a god" to agree with their satanic teaching that "the Word" is not God.

Exerpts from a website.:
........
1808 “and the Word was A
god” - Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in An
Improved Version, Upon the
Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation:
With a Corrected Text , London.......

1864 “and a god was the
Word” (left hand column
interlinear reading) The
Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin
Wilson, New York and London......

1867 “In the beginning was
the gospel preached through
the Son. And the gospel was
the word, and the word was
with the Son, and the Son was
with God, and the Son was of
God” - The Joseph Smith
Translation of the Bible......

1935 “and the Word was
divine” - The Bible—An
American Translation, by John
M. P. Smith and Edgar J.
Goodspeed, Chicago......

1955 “so the Word was
divine” - The Authentic New
Testament, by Hugh J.
Schonfield, Aberdeen.......

1978 “and godlike sort was the Logos” - Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin......

1822 "and the Word was a
god." - The New Testament in Greek and English (A.
Kneeland, 1822.);.......

1863 "and the Word was a
god." - A Literal Translation Of The New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863);.......

1885 "and the Word was a
god." - Concise Commentary On The Holy Bible ( R. Young, 1885);......

1879 "and the Word was a
god." - Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979);......

1911 "and the Word was a
god." - The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911); .......

1958 "and the Word was a
god." - The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus
Anointed" (J. L. Tomanec, 1958);.....

1829 "and the Word was a
god." - The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829);......

1975 "and the Word was a
god." - Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);......

1975 "and a god (or, of a
divine kind) was the Word" Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany........

For a complete list of 70 non
traditional translations of John
1:1 see this reference..........

Some scholars staunchly
oppose the translation ...a god,
while other scholars believe it is possible or even preferable.

Coptic scholar George Horner
renders the Sahidic Coptic of
John 1:1c as "and [a] God was the word," while his apparatus mentions, "Square brackets imply words used by the Coptic and not required by the English".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_1:1

This(below) is the full statements(s) that johnw74 edited cus he can't comment on the other parts .

Jesus is a god, the scriptures tells us that. But it also tells us that Jesus has a god that he has always been subjected to, always obeyed and has always been loyal , doing that ones will. That that god is the almighty god, the supreme lord.

dolphinheart:




Exerpts from a website.:
........
1808 “and the Word was A
god” - Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in An
Improved Version, Upon the
Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation:
With a Corrected Text , London.......

1864 “and a god was the
Word” (left hand column
interlinear reading) The
Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin
Wilson, New York and London......

1867 “In the beginning was
the gospel preached through
the Son. And the gospel was
the word, and the word was
with the Son, and the Son was
with God, and the Son was of
God” - The Joseph Smith
Translation of the Bible......

1935 “and the Word was
divine” - The Bible—An
American Translation, by John
M. P. Smith and Edgar J.
Goodspeed, Chicago......

1955 “so the Word was
divine” - The Authentic New
Testament, by Hugh J.
Schonfield, Aberdeen.......

1978 “and godlike sort was the Logos” - Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin......

1822 "and the Word was a
god." - The New Testament in Greek and English (A.
Kneeland, 1822.);.......

1863 "and the Word was a
god." - A Literal Translation Of The New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863);.......

1885 "and the Word was a
god." - Concise Commentary On The Holy Bible ( R. Young, 1885);......

1879 "and the Word was a
god." - Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979);......

1911 "and the Word was a
god." - The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911); .......

1958 "and the Word was a
god." - The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus
Anointed" (J. L. Tomanec, 1958);.....

1829 "and the Word was a
god." - The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829);......

1975 "and the Word was a
god." - Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);......

1975 "and a god (or, of a
divine kind) was the Word" Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany........

For a complete list of 70 non
traditional translations of John
1:1 see this reference..........

Some scholars staunchly
oppose the translation ...a god,
while other scholars believe it is possible or even preferable.

Coptic scholar George Horner
renders the Sahidic Coptic of
John 1:1c as "and [a] God was the word," while his apparatus mentions, "Square brackets imply words used by the Coptic and not required by the English".

You can search for all the wrongly translated verses of John 1:1 that you want to, to suit your satanic teaching that the Word is not God.
I agree with the translations that correctly say the Word was God.

johnw74:



Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God[theos], and the Word was God(theos).
The Greek for "God", and "the Word" in that verse that the English word comes from is "theos"
John would not have used the same word "theos" for God and the Word in that short sentence, if the word "theos" had a diffrent meaning in one of the two instances, he would have used a diffrent word.
John used "theos"-God for God, and he used "theos"-God for the Word.
jw change one of them to "a god" to agree with their satanic teaching that "the Word" is not God.

johnw74:




You can search for all the wrongly translated verses of John 1:1 that you want to, to suit your satanic teaching that the Word is not God.
I agree with the translations that correctly say the Word was God.

If only the authors of those quotes had, with an open mind, gone a bit further, they would have seen this: John 1:18

18 2316 [e]
18 Theon
18 Θεὸν
18 God
18 N-AMS
3762 [e]
oudeis
οὐδεὶς
no one
Adj-NMS
3708 [e]
heōraken
ἑώρακεν
has seen
V-RIA-3S
4455 [e]
pōpote
πώποτε ;
ever yet
Adv
3439 [e]
monogenēs
μονογενὴς
[the] only-begotten
Adj-NMS
2316 [e]
Theos
Θεὸς ,
God
N-NMS
3588 [e]
ho
ὁ
the [one]
Art-NMS
1510 [e]
ōn
ὢν
being
V-PPA-NMS
1519 [e]
eis
εἰς
in
Prep
3588 [e]
ton
τὸν
the
Art-AMS
2859 [e]
kolpon
κόλπον
bosom
N-AMS
3588 [e]
tou
τοῦ
of the
Art-GMS
3962 [e]
Patros
Πατρὸς ,
Father
N-GMS
1565 [e]
ekeinos
ἐκεῖνος
he
DPro-NMS
1834 [e]
exēgēsato
ἐξηγήσατο .
has made [him] known
V-AIM-3S
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/1-18.htm

Read the ones in blue to get the sentence in English

Here the Father and the Son are called GOD in the same verse. Does this not overturn their manipulations?

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

"a god" did not create anything:

Jer 10:10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
Jer 10:11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

As the Word Jesus Christ is not going to perish, shows He is not "a god"
But of course Christians know that.

plappville:


Is this how God wants it? Or how man wants it?

If God said it and I believe it, that settles it for me.

dolphinheart:


Is that ur own view of trinity?
Does everyone who believes in trinity accept same view as urs?
Does that diagram explain the relationship between the three?
Do you have scriptures that explain trinity, I mean the relationship between the 3?

Have you read the suggested answers I posted?

orisa37:


Everycase in the New Testament teaches Trinity. The case of the paralytic man who was let down the roof to Jesus. When Jesus saw the Faith of the man's friends, He said, "son, your sins are forgiven you". And the people around who heard this, reasoned in their hearts that, "Only God can Forgive sins". St. Mark 2: 1-12. This is practical Trinity.

Well said. Only God can forgive sins. I hope our Roman Catholic friends are taking note.

Hey guys, you will keep arguing about trinity for like forever and it wont change tha fact that Jesus is God together with the father and the spirit.

The proof of the above statement is very much simple.

TESTIMONY OF JOHN THE EVANGELIST

If John the evangelist has called JESUS GOD, who are you to say against John? Who will I listen more, you or John? I will definitely listen to John for He lived with Christ for more than Three years, he ate with Christ, He generally knows Christ better than we are. So I bet, I will listen to John rather than anyone else. So what did John (the best friend of Christ according to the bible) said about him? Well in the book of John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the [b]Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God."[/b] . So if John called Christ God, then I will call Christ God, if He mentioned Christ as the Creator of all, I will mention the same.


TESTIMONY FORM PETER THE APOSTLE

Do you remember the story of Ananias.? Well, it is famous story and within it we learn a very important lesson.

Act 5. "Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

Within such a short story, Peter equates lying to the Holy Spirit the same as Lying to God. Who are we then to say that The Holy Spirit is not God? Peter was present during the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit descended to the disciples. So, I will go with peter rather than someone who says something against Peter.

Conclusion.
There are many testimonies in the bible in both Old and New Testaments that clearly affirms that indeed Jesus is God. Testimonies from prophets such as Isaiah, David and Micah, shows that Christ is God. Paul mentioned several times in His epistles that Christ is God. My take is, I will better listen to them than stick with man made doctrines such as that of JWs which required them first to translate their own bible, to suit their doctrines.

This subject of the trinity is something that even some christians still find difficult to grasp.However let me state here that christianity is not something you comprehend by the senses or by human reasoning,it is by faith.Heb 11:6.Faith is when you believe the possibility of a thing without having any physical evidence but an inner conviction.

When you are born again God puts his Spirit in you which bears witness with your spirit that you are born again.Rom8:14.No man can understand the things of the spirit except by the Spirit of the Lord. Therefore the issue of the trinity is not something you can literally explain to a carnal person and expect him to understand.

I had often encountered some muslims in the course of evangelism who asked such questions like 'God did not marry how come He has a son' ? my answer has always been if you consider God to be the almighty then having a son without a wife is a possibility with him.

OLAADEGBU:


What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQkFlzFJ3kA

The Trinity (Christian Triune Godhead) explained Part 2


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvj87QCF0lg

God has revealed Himself in Scripture—as one God eternally existing in three Persons.
Jonathan Edwards noted, after studying the topic, "I think [the doctrine of the Trinity] to be the highest and deepest of all Divine mysteries"