solite3:
go back and read my post, I was not neccesarily condemning older manuscripts but only affirm that it cannot be used to discredit the rendering of rev1:11kjv only because they don't have alpha and omega in them.scholars based their assumptions on current available manuscripts, I bet you if they find another older manuscripts that agrees with textus they will change their view .

I've read your posts, I've even quoted them, unlike you who had abandoned some of my recent posts to you cus it contains questions you dnt want to answer.
I've told you and repeated it over and over again, there are no issues with Revelation 1:11 in manuscripts containing that verse!. because of these, you have decided to generalize the issue under discussion, expanding the discussion to include the whole book of Revelation, when all we are discussing is just a single verse!
that you cannot find flaws with the manuscripts redering of rev: 11 makes it imperative to believe that the Textus Receptus added those words "Alpha and omega" when it was compiling itself hundreds of years later. You could not even provide the source of the words added to that verse by the Textus Receptus!

I've given you 4 facts about that verse now, you could not disprove any.
You refuse to accept the words of that verse as recorded in the older and more reliable manuscripts, claimING the book of revelation had flaws. but you accept the verse in the test us Receptus , even when scholars and even it's own author agree that it had flaws. you assume this double standards just to protect a false doctrine.

The first verse of Revelation had set a precedent for you to use to examine the whole book, it tells you that "God gave jesus" the revelation , God did not give himself, Jesus did not give himself, it was God who have jesus the Revelation. God ( in the book of revelation)and Jesus are not the same person!
verse 4-6 also clears who is who in the Book of revaluation, it helps us to understand that the one who is, who was, and who is coming is different from Jesus Christ.

brocab says it's jesus, you say it's the father, yet you refuse to discuss and tell the whole world who is right and who is wrong!

to make sure that you dnt confuse yourself on who the al mighty God is, Jesus told you severaly in that book that he has a God! , using the words " my God " several times in that book. I ve several times asked if the almighty can have a god superior to him, cus jesus had now indicated when he was in heaven, when he came to earth, and when he back in heaven that he has a God! he did not just call that God "a God ", he said "my God", "your god" , "the only true god".

All this facts are presented to you in the Book of Revelation, you could not discuss any of them, but you choose to believe a verse from the Textus Receptus that you can't defend, that you can't show where the Textus Receptus got it from! that majority of scholars have shown to be spurious, that can't be found even in translations of the authors that surpport trinity.

lastly, even if you would not answer the questions being posted to you several times , pls van you tell us the name of your church or organization you associate with at the moment?

goodnews201668:



One God?
Yet one is giving the other authority?
Na waoo, by the way john 1:1 didn't say they are one God.
John 1:1King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word,and[b][/b] the Word was with God[b][/b], and the Word was God.

Two different persons, the word was with God. Can he be with God and still be the same God?

If the article didn't encourage you to study the matter, then neither can I.

So you mean to tell the world the bible isn't the truth? The translations of these scriptures in {Philippians 2:5-7} are written wrongly, like in {John 1:1}
I suppose the NWT bible is the bible everyone should be reading, and not the King James?

Jozzy4:


Dogmatism has really affected ur thinking ability, why dont u see that this verse is translated wrongly ?

LET THIS MIND BE IN YOU , Wow , then We too should count it not robbery to claim equality with God ?

dolphinheart:


it has been proving to you that you keep adjusting your allegations.
you could not post the post and tell us where I said so .
It is also noted by everyone that you could not respond to scriptures posted to you on that thread !

dolphinheart:


can you imagine!, he started with one allegation, saying I said something, told him to show where I said so, he must have gone back to check it, knew his allegations are false , he now came back to adjust the allegations.

dolphinheart:


well, you had been lying before Johnny joined you. You cannot come out to say this is what I said, even when johnw74 provided you with supposed evidence. johnw74, on the other hand keep changing the words he claimed I said.

concerning John 1:1, God and the Word, Jesus and God:

dolphinheart:
your God is two persons in one!, a two headed God!.

Lie Lie dolphinheart

Like always nothing you say makes any sense.
It really doesn't matter, the point is you had written it' for the public to see, calling yourself a lair ,you trying to deny it.
Johnw74 had brought it back to your attention, this proves you don't even believe the truth in Christ.
None of you JW's do.
We on the other hand have given the JW's scriptures from the bible, and all you have done is rebuked them all, you are denying these scriptures even exist.
Without you knowing you are really making a mockery of your organization, and what it means to become a Jehovah witness.
Myself if I was searching for the truth, and I saw the rubbish you JW's write on this page, it would turn me away from that truth.
And what is funny you are actually denying the word of God to those who are even reading this page.

dolphinheart:


well, you had been lying before Johnny joined you. You cannot come out to say this is what I said, even when johnw74 provided you with supposed evidence. johnw74, on the other hand keep changing the words he claimed I said.

Both of you know that by posting the full text of what I said, readers will see your childish games. bet you are really pained that he could not quote my own words, but what should be paining you more is your inability, blindness and deliberate refusal to quote and explain the questions and scriptures posted in that post you responded to.

YOU SO MUCH WISH YOU COULD SHUT SOME ONE UP CUS YOU CANT RESPOND TO THE SCRIPTURES HE KEEPS POST ING TO YOU!

brocab:
Like always nothing you say makes sense.

Lie Lie dolphinheart is so confused. Lies against the truth and causing strife do that to one

Jas 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Jas 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jas 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

I think dolphinheart already knows it, but I believe he is showing off in front of his followers. Dolphinheart is God to the JW's.

johnw74:


Lie Lie dolphinheart is so confused. Lies against the truth and causing strife do that to one

Jas 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Jas 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jas 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

Lie Lie captivator


more lies from false jw:

Jehovah Witness Facts

1 What the individual Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW) are
teaching others is NOT original with them. They did
not get that by reading the Bible for themselves!
They were taught those twisted and deadly concepts
from their Governing Body (the Watchtower Society),
which is a Bible-defined false prophet. (Often the JWs
think they discovered those so-called truths by their
own research and Bible study, but somehow seem to
forget their own intense indoctrination through
Watchtower literature and Kingdom Hall visits.
PRIDE then helps to keep them spiritually blinded to
God’s truths in the Bible.)

2 The founder of that group (Charles Taze Russel)
did not get his weird doctrines from reading the
Bible! Russell got those doctrines from others such as
Arius of Alexandria, a fourth century heretic. (Arius
was an outspoken enemy of the deity of Christ, like
Russell and all JWs.) Russell revived his doctrines and
arguments and presented them as his own.

3 Some of what Russell taught regarding various
subjects important to the JW is now being denied
and/or avoided because they are clear and definite
contradictions to their own current teachings.
Those teachings by Russell reveal him as a false
prophet and unable to understand the Scriptures!
For example, Russell wrote:
The next chapter will present Bible evidence that
1874 A.D. was the exact date of the beginning of
the “Times of Restitution,” and hence of our

Lord’s return. (Study In The Scriptures, Vol. 2,
(Watch Tower Bible And Tract Society),1908 ed.,

p. 170.)
NOTE: The JWs today are teaching that 1914 was
the Lord’s return, thereby denying the “light” (really
darkness taught as light) from Russell. Also, note that
Russell stated 1874 was derived from Bible evidence.
Obviously, Russell’s Bible evidence was nonexistent
since they now teach 1914 instead of 1874.
Russell was therefore a deceiver, which is what the
Lord said false prophets are (Mt. 24:11).

Many sincere people back then were clearly deceived
by Russell’s Bible evidence and still are today
in other areas! That is the deceiver and man who started
the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Here are more empty
words and false teachings from him:

... likewise the forty years of the Gospel age
harvest will end October, 1914, and that likewise
the overthrow of “Christendom,” so-called, must
be expected to immediately follow. “In one hour”
judgment shall come upon her.—Rev. 18:10, 17,

19. (ibid., p. 245)
Russell was a deluded, yet convincing false
teacher. It should be apparent he was darkness, not
“light,” not a “righteous man,” but a spokesman for the
devil, who has stumbled millions over the years. Russell
even went outside of the Bible to the Great Pyramid
for his weird and lethal doctrines:


... the Great Pyramid of Egypt is one of God’s
Witnesses (Isa. 19:19,20), whose wonderful message
is a full and complete corroboration of God’s
plan of the ages, together with its times and seasons.
(ibid., p. 366)

Isa. 19:19,20 has nothing to do with the Great
Pyramid. Here is what that passage says:

In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in
the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD
at its border. It will be a sign and witness to the
LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they
cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors,
he will send them a savior and defender, and he
will rescue them.

For more strange Russell statements exalting the
importance of the Great Pyramid, click here and read
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/IMG_0742.JPG
(They are found on what would be pp. 374,375 in vol.
2 of the Studies In The Scriptures.)


4 The JWs are constantly telling others about the
1,000 year reign of Christ of perfect peace on paradise
earth. WHY? They wrongly think that is
preaching “the good news of the kingdom.” In other
words, they think that message is the “gospel.”
When the Christian mentions that NEVER in the
book of Acts—not even one time—did any of the
Apostles (Peter, Paul, etc.) or other disciples like
Stephen, Philip, etc. ever mention the 1,000 year reign
of Christ as they spread the gospel, the JWs are speechless
and exposed. The JWs are spreading “another
gospel,” which has no power to save anyone. That is a
FACT and a death-blow to their chief, central message.
That is also the rotten fruit from their own Governing
Body in Brooklyn, NY.

The real preaching of “the good news of the kingdom”
is related to spreading the true plan of salvation,
which brings eternal life and which they also deny one
can have now! The plan of salvation is shown in detail,
in part and/or by inference dozens of times in the Book
of Acts. It is concisely stated in Acts 20:21:

I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that
they must turn to God in repentance and have
faith in our Lord Jesus.

That is the message which sets the sin-slave free

and brings eternal life, because then and then only does
a person “have the Son,” as mentioned in 1 John 5:12,
13, etc.

The JWs are under the dangerous delusion that
taking in (accurate) “knowledge,” as defined by the
Watchtower Society, is related to getting eternal life!
(Eternal life to them is simply living forever on Paradise
earth. They know nothing about eternal life NOW,
this side of the grave, through instant salvation.)


5 JWs often deny what others accurately say
about them so they don’t have to deal with it! They
say something like, We don’t believe that! Or We
don’t teach that! Or I don’t see your point! That is,
in part, how they were trained by their leaders in
Brooklyn. That is part of their war strategy. In other
words, at times they are taught to lie and deceive! Here
is how they define a lie in their own literature:
Lying generally involves saying something false
to a person who is entitled to know the truth ....
(Aid To Bible Understanding, Watch Tower Bible
And Tract Society, 1971, p. 1060.)

If you are an enemy of the JW false gospel you
are not entitled to know the truth from them, if you
make a point they can’t deal with. We have seen this
even when exact quotes and full documentation are
supplied. Shocking, but true! Such Watchtower robots
are sealing their own damnation by closing their eyes
to such evidence.

Some JWs even think any evidence, even from a
non-credible source, is sufficient backing for their
point. Anything will do, as long as it aligns itself with
what the Watchtower literature says. Hence, many remain
blind followers of the blind.

In conclusion: Many JWs were never saved, yet
some were. They are all lost now and refuse to come to
JESUS for the living water and salvation he holds out
to all (John 4:10; 5:39,40; etc). They claim they “have
the Son” yet they don’t claim to have the eternal life
now which goes with having the Son. They also can’t
look to and trust Jesus for their salvation, since they
even have another Jesus. All that is what a false prophet
does to their victims.


EvangelicalOutreach.Org


PO Box 265 Washington PA 15301

read it here: http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/images/jehovah-witness-facts.pdf





more truth on the sect that is called jehovahs' witnesses at these sites:

http://jwfacts.com/

https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/jehovahs-witnesses-answered.htm

Don't you just love it, that not all Christians believe in your organization.
You must ask yourself why did the JW's try to change the bible. What were they thinking? The JW's has caused such a problem between other believers who also follow after Christ.
Do we all become a JW? because the JW's believe other religions are wrong, and the stories written about Christ is wrong also-look at Jesus and His disciples, the stories about them turned the world upside down..
The JW's believe the bible was written under a lie, and the true bible scholars were JW's who came into this world centuries later, to rewrite the truth who Jesus really is, He is the archangel Michael who came to earth to save us sinners.
And Jesus's true disciples were Jehovah witnesses who are the 144,000 who were sent to earth, to clean up this mess the world had made, and their job is correct the truth about GOD.
And even {John 1:1} had frighten the JW's because its a lie from the beginning? In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. And the JW's believe the word was a god, Not the word was God.

goodnews201668:



One God?
Yet one is giving the other authority?
Na waoo, by the way john 1:1 didn't say they are one God.
John 1:1King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word,and[b][/b] the Word was with God[b][/b], and the Word was God.

Two different persons, the word was with God. Can he be with God and still be the same God?

Why don't you read the bible yourself, and convince yourself who is the Alpha and the Omega? Everyone in their right mind knows who is, who was, and who is coming.
You are making a mockery of your organization, making them look like fools-just read your New World Translation bible, it's written who's coming back, the JW's have written who Jesus and Jehovah is, they also believe only One is the Alpha and the Omega.
But of course who aren't convinced, you believe the Alpha is somebody else. So you have even gone against your own organization, who believe other then what 'you believe. Just read what your bible scholars had written, and remember the word say's no-one has seen God at any time, because God is Spirit, so who's coming back in the clouds that every eye will see?

And why do you refuse to tell us your church and who do you associate with? Calling yourself a JW doesn't tell us anything. You could be a monk, claiming to be a JW who hasn't any knowledge, about the word of God? So what's the name of your church, so I could write in your black listed book personally so you won't have to visit me at any time.

dolphinheart:


I've read your posts, I've even quoted them, unlike you who had abandoned some of my recent posts to you cus it contains questions you dnt want to answer.
I've told you and repeated it over and over again, there are no issues with Revelation 1:11 in manuscripts containing that verse!. because of these, you have decided to generalize the issue under discussion, expanding the discussion to include the whole book of Revelation, when all we are discussing is just a single verse!
that you cannot find flaws with the manuscripts redering of rev: 11 makes it imperative to believe that the Textus Receptus added those words "Alpha and omega" when it was compiling itself hundreds of years later. You could not even provide the source of the words added to that verse by the Textus Receptus!

I've given you 4 facts about that verse now, you could not disprove any.
You refuse to accept the words of that verse as recorded in the older and more reliable manuscripts, claimING the book of revelation had flaws. but you accept the verse in the test us Receptus , even when scholars and even it's own author agree that it had flaws. you assume this double standards just to protect a false doctrine.

The first verse of Revelation had set a precedent for you to use to examine the whole book, it tells you that "God gave jesus" the revelation , God did not give himself, Jesus did not give himself, it was God who have jesus the Revelation. God ( in the book of revelation)and Jesus are not the same person!
verse 4-6 also clears who is who in the Book of revaluation, it helps us to understand that the one who is, who was, and who is coming is different from Jesus Christ.

brocab says it's jesus, you say it's the father, yet you refuse to discuss and tell the whole world who is right and who is wrong!

to make sure that you dnt confuse yourself on who the al mighty God is, Jesus told you severaly in that book that he has a God! , using the words " my God " several times in that book. I ve several times asked if the almighty can have a god superior to him, cus jesus had now indicated when he was in heaven, when he came to earth, and when he back in heaven that he has a God! he did not just call that God "a God ", he said "my God", "your god" , "the only true god".

All this facts are presented to you in the Book of Revelation, you could not discuss any of them, but you choose to believe a verse from the Textus Receptus that you can't defend, that you can't show where the Textus Receptus got it from! that majority of scholars have shown to be spurious, that can't be found even in translations of the authors that surpport trinity.

lastly, even if you would not answer the questions being posted to you several times , pls van you tell us the name of your church or organization you associate with at the moment?

Christians know that God and the Word is God

false jw preach that God and the word are two gods, Almighty God and mighty god
Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Christians know that God is one
false jw obviously don't believe it (above)

Christians know the one true God is: God and the Word and the Holy spirit, three persons, one God
false jw will never understand it, they don't have and cannot have a personal relationship with God, they think His Spirit is just His power,
Duh, God is Spirit, He is not just a power.





This is interisting brocab:

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

The original word “Elohim,” God, is certainly the plural form of “El,” or “Eloah,” and has long been supposed, by the most eminently learned and pious men, to imply a plurality of Persons in the Divine nature. As this plurality appears in so many parts of the sacred writings to be confined to three Persons, hence the doctrine of the Trinity, which has formed a part of the creed of all those who have been deemed sound in the faith, from the earliest ages of Christianity. Nor are the Christians singular in receiving this doctrine, and in deriving it from the first words of Divine revelation.

(Shema Yisrael, Yehowah, Elohainoo, Yehowah aichod.)
"Hear, Israel, Jehovah, our God, is one Jehovah."
On this passage the Jews lay great stress; and it is one of the four passages which they write on their phylacteries.
An eminent Jewish rabbi, Simeon ben Joachi, in his comment on the sixth section of Leviticus, has these remarkable words:
On the word Elohim, Simeon ben Joachi says: "Come and see the mystery of the word Elohim. There are three degrees, and each degree is by itself alone, and yet they are all one, and joined together in one, and are not divided from each other."See Ainsworth. He must be strangely prejudiced indeed who cannot see that the doctrine of a Trinity, and of a Trinity in unity, is expressed in the above words.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

johnw74:












concerning John 1:1, God and the Word, Jesus and God:


Lie Lie dolphinheart

EVERY ONE, PLS NOTICE THAT HE COULD STILL NOT POST OR QUOTE MY FULL POST

ON MAY 26 , 1:37 am( page 64 of these thread) John74 stated categorically that I said this :

"dolphinheart said that God and the Word is "a two headed god""

ON MAY 26, 1: 53 am on these thread (page 64) brocab asked johnw74

brocab:
Did dolphinheart say that, God and the word is a two headed god".

CAN YOU NOTICE THAT UP TILL THIS MOMENT, JOHNW74 HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO PROVE WHERE I SAID " GOD AND THE WORD IS A TWO HEADED GOD?

He had been trying desperately since trying to explain my own words so that it could sync with his posts, but to do so, he had to deliberately omit my own posts which had rubished and thrown his posts to the gutters, which has explained to him that his beliefs are false and which he is unable to respond to . NOTICE AGAIN , BOTH JOHNW74 AND BROCAB HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO RESPOND TO THE QUESTIONS ASKED , NOR BEEN ABLE TO QUOTE AND EXPLAIN THEIR UNDERSTANDINGS OF THOSE SCRIPTURES I QUOTED TO THEM FROM THE FIRST TWO POSTS OF MINE IN THAT THREAD.
HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES, YET YOU FAIL TO QUOTE AND EXAMINE SCRIPTURES THAT IS TALK ING ABOUT THE PERSONS YOU BELIEVE IN!



AGAIN , FOR STATERS TO THOSE READ ING THIS POST, BELOW IS MY FIRST POST ON THAT THREAD, UP TILL THIS MOMENT ON THAT THREAD. HE COULD NOT QUOTE AND EXPLAIN THE SCRIPTURES IN THAT FIRST POST, NOR COULD HE PROOF THE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS WRONG.

MY POST:
[b]Is the son the same person as the father ? no

is the son equal to the father? no, "the father is greater than i" the son says

did the son ever claim to be God almighty, God of isreal, the most high God? ? no, he only claimed to be the Son of God!

does the son sit on the same throne and have same authority as the father? no he sits at the right hand of God .

was the son given commands? yes, the almighty God cannot be given commands

does the son have a god (someone he worships ) ? yes, " I ascend to my Father... and to my God " he says.

does the son do things on his own? no , he does what the father tells him to do.

does the son show subjection to the father? absolutely yes

does the son have a beginning ? yes
does the father have? no

does the Scriptures seperate the person of God from the person of Jesus ? yes, all the time

has jesus described God? yes , he called him the father, " the only true god"

has God described jesus? yes , he called him " my son, in whom I'm well pleased"

is jesus subjected to God? yes

can you be with someone and be that same person? no

it has been established that God and Jesus are two different persons, there if you make jesus to be that same God, then your God is two persons in one!, a two headed God!.
you also thus claim that Jesus and God are equal, something the scriptures never mentioned nor surpport.

for those who seek life, listen to this words

[b]Joh 3:16“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

Joh 6:40For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

Joh 20:31But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.

Eph 1:3Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ,

1Ti 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,

1Co 8:5For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”
1Co 8:6there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

Eph 4:6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all[/b]

These are the scriptures in which those who believe in Jesus and the father being the same God would not want to discuss with you , they prefer that the scriptures contradict itself so as to be able to hold on to their false beliefs.

The scriptures explains itself , after reading about the relationship between God and Jesus, it is left for us to now decide if the word is the same God it was with, or if he was a god who was with a much superior God, the almighty.

heb 1:9You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”[/b]

After his refusal to explain those scriptures I told him:
@ johnw74 , the above are absolute truths, that's why you can't refute any of them. you want to post about your doctrines, those scriptures I posted show's your doctrines are false!. that's y you can never ever explain those scriptures.

DID YOU NOTICE WHERE I TOLD HIM HIS DOCTRINES ARE FALSE! THE DOCTRINES ABOUT WHO GOD IS ?
I DID NOT STOP THEIR , I SHOW ED HIM MORE SCRIPTURES HE COULD NOT EXPLAIN!

the above will continue to stand as the truth, and surporters of false doctrine will continue to run away from it!

Re 1:1A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John,

Re 1:5and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.” To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood—
yes
Re 1:6and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

King James Version
Joh 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Jesus has told us countless of times who my God is, he prayed to that God, thought me how to pray to that God, told us about his relationship with that God who exalted him above his companions.
I will not worship a man made God, a two or three headed God, for Jesus has told me , the father is the only true god!

Joh 17:1Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you,
Joh 17:2just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him.
Joh 17:3This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

one should read John chapter 17, it tells you more about the relationship between jesus and God.
[/b]

brocab:
Like always nothing you say makes any sense.
It really doesn't matter, the point is you had written it' for the public to see, calling yourself a lair ,you trying to deny it.

WRITTEN WHAAAT? pls point to what I've written and post it, anytime I say you said something, I endeavor to direct you to wheee and when you said it, so pls direct me and others to where I said " God and the Word is a two headed god"?

bunch of liars!

Johnw74 had brought it back to your attention, this proves you don't even believe the truth in Christ.
None of you JW's do.

Brought what back to my attention, I know you desperately want him to bring those words he accused me of saying out, it pains you that he could not, hence you have to find alternatives!

We on the other hand have given the JW's scriptures from the bible, and all you have done is rebuked them all, you are denying these scriptures even exist.
Without you knowing you are really making a mockery of your organization, and what it means to become a Jehovah witness.
Myself if I was searching for the truth, and I saw the rubbish you JW's write on this page, it would turn me away from that truth.
And what is funny you are actually denying the word of God to those who are even reading this page.

1. You gave scriptures that do not say what you are trying to tell us they mean, when you gave those scriptures , I told you what they mean, using other scriptures to explain them, I did not run away from those scriptures and I did not rebuke them.

2. When I explain these scriptures to you, once you see the truth of it, all you do is try and change the topic or refuse to reply, most times I had to repeat my post, but you refuse to respond, I'll continue to post those scriptures, questions and request you refuse to respond to

3. I've shown you scriptures telling you about who Jesus is and his relationship to his father, yet you could not respond



issues at hand:
[b]And yet no response from you on the issue you yourself raised?
also up till now , you have not answered these questions
(ill find that post and point it to you)

you have also refused to respond to these questions and scripture:

[b]Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work. 

Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!. 
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.

Examine this questions brocab 1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth? 
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit? 
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am" 
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit. 
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.

You cannot answer if Jesus is the same person as the father.

brocab , readers will note(again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :

1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9 
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3 
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9,11 
12. john 14:6 
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7 
16. ps 28:18

And a host of others

Brocab , examine these scripture 
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.

Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty!


YOU HAVE AGAIN ADDED LIES TO YOUR VIEWS.
Lets see if jesus was recognizable to those who knew him:

King James Version
Joh 20:14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS JESUS!

King James Version
Joh 20:15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? SHE SUPPOSING HIM TO BE THE GARGENER, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

I dnt think the disciples would have been able to recognize Jesus more than Mary, she probably would have known jesus from birth, and the picture of jesus in her memory would have been sharper than a 100 mega pixel camera!

but here you are , lying again that Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him!
dnt you think Mary should have been able to recognise jesus instantly if he had been raise in the same body he died in?
* this is a question ill hope you can give us answer to .

Do you notice how jesus appeared to his disciples who had locked the doors, his actions transcends the physical realm, he appeared to them gram!, in a locked rooM!. yet until he showed them death dealing wound marks, that was when they believed they where swing the Lord.

brocab pls tell us
1. DOES SOME ONE FACE CHANGE WHEN HE OR SHE IS RESSURRECTED WITH THE SAME BODY HE OR SHE DIED IN?

2.DOES SOME ONE GETS RESSURRECTED WITH THE WOUND'S OR INJURIES THAT KILLED HIM?
If your assumptions are true, I bet during the ressurection, we will know those whose throut where slit, cus there will still be a gapping hole in there necks. and those whose brains where blown out will have a hole in their head, cus they will be resurrected with that same body!

before, I digress, let's further examine ya lie.
King James Version
Joh 21:4But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: BUT THE DISCIPLES KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS JESUS.

john 21: 12 New International Version
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord.
even after seing jesus after his resurrecting, after being with jesus for years, they still do not recognize Jesus at first glance. If jesus had been resurrected with the same body he had died in, the disciples will have no doubt, they wunt need to even bother to ask the question that dared not to ask, "who are you".
Jesus had just showed them who he is, it is left for us to understand that they still had issues with jesus physical features, despite knowing that the person inviting theM to a meal is actually jesus.

I for one believe that only spirits do appear and dissappear at will!

spirits can manifest physical bodies of any liking for any particular purpose, the scriptures is awash with such occurrences, they can even use it to have sex sef!


sir do you ever read the scriptures at all.
It says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God!
human body is flesh and blood!
how then do you espect the king of gods kingdom to have flesh and blood while his Co rulers do not!
how do you expect the physical to rule in the spiritual realm.

brocab, Jesus was a spirit before he came to earth, was he not?
how come , you refuse him his spirit nature when he had accomplished the work he was sent to do here on earth?

brocab:
Why don't you read the bible yourself, and convince yourself who is the Alpha and the Omega? Everyone in their right mind knows who is, who was, and who is coming.

BUT YOU BROCAB, DO NOT KNOW WHO IS, WHO WAS, WHO IS COMING, you claim it is Jesus, and solite3 has said it's the father .

is solite3 right and are you wrong or are you right and he is wrong, pls TELL US.
IS JESUS THE SAME PERSONS AS THE FATHER?

You are making a mockery of your organization, making them look like fools-just read your New World Translation bible, it's written who's coming back, the JW's have written who Jesus and Jehovah is, they also believe only One is the Alpha and the Omega.

be truthful sir! and stop Tryin to use words to confuse people, " who is coming" is a different sentence from "who is coming back", stop trying to merge them to create a false idea!

its good to note that you have contributed nothing to the issue of the Textus Receptus and revelation 1:11
you are trying to bring up the issue of rev 1:7,8 again, but then I posted it's understanding to you, you could not respond, dnt worry, I'll repost it soon.

But of course who aren't convinced, you believe the Alpha is somebody else. So you have even gone against your own organization, who believe other then what 'you believe. Just read what your bible scholars had written, and remember the word say's no-one has seen God at any time, because God is Spirit, so who's coming back in the clouds that every eye will see?

you are a liar brocab, tell us, whO did I tell you the Alpha and omega is, and who does the organization tell you it is.?

[color=red] READERS SHOULD PLS NOTICE THIS NEW LIE OF HIS AND CHECK IF HE WILL PRO DID PROOF OR ANSWER THE QUESTION

And why do you refuse to tell us your church and who do you associate with? Calling yourself a JW doesn't tell us anything. You could be a monk, claiming to be a JW who hasn't any knowledge, about the word of God? So what's the name of your church, so I could write in your black listed book personally so you won't have to visit me at any time.

READERS SHOULD NOTE THAT AFTER MONTHS OF ASKING HIM, HE REFUSES TO TELL US THE NAME OF HIS CHURCH OR THE ORGANIZATION HE ASSOCIATES WITH.
HE COULD NOT EVEN PROVIDE IT'S WEBSITE.

dolphinheart:


BUT YOU BROCAB, DO NOT KNOW WHO IS, WHO WAS, WHO IS COMING, you claim it is Jesus, and solite3 has said it's the father .

is solite3 right and are you wrong or are you right and he is wrong, pls TELL US.
IS JESUS THE SAME PERSONS AS THE FATHER?


be truthful sir! and stop Tryin to use words to confuse people, " who is coming" is a different sentence from "who is coming back", stop trying to merge them to create a false idea!

its good to note that you have contributed nothing to the issue of the Textus Receptus and revelation 1:11
you are trying to bring up the issue of rev 1:7,8 again, but then I posted it's understanding to you, you could not respond, dnt worry, I'll repost it soon.





you are a liar brocab, tell us, whO did I tell you the Alpha and omega is, and who does the organization tell you it is.?

READERS SHOULD PLS NOTICE THIS NEW LIE OF HIS AND CHECK IF HE WILL PRO DID PROOF OR ANSWER THE QUESTION



READERS SHOULD NOTE THAT AFTER MONTHS OF ASKING HIM, HE REFUSES TO TELL US THE NAME OF HIS CHURCH OR THE ORGANIZATION HE ASSOCIATES WITH.
HE COULD NOT EVEN PROVIDE IT'S WEBSITE.

I laugh at your show of ignorance. When I asked you,if those older manuscripts were the original ones, you said no. I rest my case. All your questions had been answered.
Even your own mouth said Jesus had same nature with God which invariably makes him God, but Jesus became a man and till date he is still a man.acts 2:22-36

johnw74:

Christians know that God and the Word is God

false jw preach that God and the word are two gods, Almighty God and mighty god
Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Christians know that God is one
false jw obviously don't believe it (above)

Christians know the one true God is: God and the Word and the Holy spirit, three persons, one God
false jw will never understand it, they don't have and cannot have a personal relationship with God, they think His Spirit is just His power,
Duh, God is Spirit, He is not just a power.





This is interisting brocab:

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

The original word “Elohim,” God, is certainly the plural form of “El,” or “Eloah,” and has long been supposed, by the most eminently learned and pious men, to imply a plurality of Persons in the Divine nature. As this plurality appears in so many parts of the sacred writings to be confined to three Persons, hence the doctrine of the Trinity, which has formed a part of the creed of all those who have been deemed sound in the faith, from the earliest ages of Christianity. Nor are the Christians singular in receiving this doctrine, and in deriving it from the first words of Divine revelation.

(Shema Yisrael, Yehowah, Elohainoo, Yehowah aichod.)
"Hear, Israel, Jehovah, our God, is one Jehovah."
On this passage the Jews lay great stress; and it is one of the four passages which they write on their phylacteries.
An eminent Jewish rabbi, Simeon ben Joachi, in his comment on the sixth section of Leviticus, has these remarkable words:
On the word Elohim, Simeon ben Joachi says: "Come and see the mystery of the word Elohim. There are three degrees, and each degree is by itself alone, and yet they are all one, and joined together in one, and are not divided from each other."See Ainsworth. He must be strangely prejudiced indeed who cannot see that the doctrine of a Trinity, and of a Trinity in unity, is expressed in the above words.

Dont tell me the Israelites believe in trinity ?

solite3:
I laugh at your show of ignorance. When I asked you,if those older manuscripts were the original ones, you said no. I rest my case.

you might rest your case if you have nothing to say. But ill like you to point and quote where I said "no" to that question.

let's examine his defence using the word " original ones"
* by the sentence " original ones," I believe he is referring to the scriptures as written Down by the author, ie, the physical book/scroll/manuscript of revelation as written down by John himself!

do we have such book/schrolls / manuscripts today? NO!
did the Textus Receptus use it? NO!
did the Textus Receptus claim to get rev 1:11 from the original ones? NO ?

so pls solite3, can you tell us how not having or the older manuscripts not being the original ones make adding the words " Alpha and omega" to that verse by the testus Receptus the right thing to do .?

If you discredit the older manuscripts because they are not the original ones, then the Textus Receptus should not be opened at all, talk less of considering it.

All your questions had been answered.

NO SIR , THEY HAVE NOT!
Here they are again
:

Jesus has a God, yes or no,?
Jesus is subjected to that God , yes or no
if Jesus has a God, how can He then be almighty God ?


2. on April 27 jEphz
"for those saying Jesus is God.. pls. explain these Scripture for me ... Ephesians 5:1,2 1timothy 2:5 John 8:42 Act 2:22 Hebrews 12:2...... "

3. April 29
" the God of our Lord Jesus Christ " Eph 1:17, who is the God of Jesus Christ ?

4. "You say Jesus is still a man in heaven, you also say Jesus has a God when he was a man.
NOW DOES Jesus STILL HAVE A GOD IN HEAVEN?"

who anointed Jesus? who is that person to Jesus?
you can see that the questions are numbered, so dnt muddle it up , or give part response

Even your own mouth said Jesus had same nature with God which invariably makes him God, but Jesus became a man and till date he is still a man.acts 2:22-36

there are, no invariables in my statements, if you are still not sure what I meant, I'll post those posts of mine again for you to see, and everyone will see if you will respond or still try to change the issues again, up till now you have not apologised for lying against me that I said Jesus and God gave one nature.


solite3, pls respond to these post if you can( it was posted on may 28, 1: 17pm)

[b]I've read your posts, I've even quoted them, unlike you who had abandoned some of my recent posts to you cus it contains questions you dnt want to answer.
I've told you and repeated it over and over again, there are no issues with Revelation 1:11 in manuscripts containing that verse!. because of these, you have decided to generalize the issue under discussion, expanding the discussion to include the whole book of Revelation, when all we are discussing is just a single verse!
that you cannot find flaws with the manuscripts redering of rev: 11 makes it imperative to believe that the Textus Receptus added those words "Alpha and omega" when it was compiling itself hundreds of years later. You could not even provide the source of the words added to that verse by the Textus Receptus!
I've given you 4 facts about that verse now, you could not disprove any.
You refuse to accept the words of that verse as recorded in the older and more reliable manuscripts, claimING the book of revelation had flaws. but you accept the verse in the test us Receptus , even when scholars and even it's own author agree that it had flaws. you assume this double standards just to protect a false doctrine.
The first verse of Revelation had set a precedent for you to use to examine the whole book, it tells you that "God gave Jesus" the revelation , God did not give himself, Jesus did not give himself, it was God who have Jesus the Revelation. God ( in the book of revelation)and Jesus are not the same person!
verse 4-6 also clears who is who in the Book of revaluation, it helps us to understand that the one who is, who was, and who is coming is different from Jesus Christ.
brocab says it's Jesus, you say it's the father, yet you refuse to discuss and tell the whole world who is right and who is wrong!
to make sure that you dnt confuse yourself on who the al mighty God is, Jesus told you severaly in that book that he has a God! , using the words " my God " several times in that book. I ve several times asked if the almighty can have a god superior to him, cus Jesus had now indicated when he was in heaven, when he came to earth, and when he back in heaven that he has a God! he did not just call that God "a God ", he said "my God", "your god" , "the only true god".
All this facts are presented to you in the Book of Revelation, you could not discuss any of them, but you choose to believe a verse from the Textus Receptus that you can't defend, that you can't show where the Textus Receptus got it from! that majority of scholars have shown to be spurious, that can't be found even in translations of the authors that surpport trinity.
lastly, even if you would not answer the questions being posted to you several times , pls van you tell us the name of your church or organization you associate with at the moment?[/b]

I didn't catch the first page, where you said you had explained who it is, who was, and who is coming?
So can you put it in writing once again and repeat yourself once more, who it is? Who do you believe who is coming.
Please explain Revelation since you are the one mouthing off you know the answers?
Who is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end, I Am the living one, I was dead, and behold I Am alive forevermore?
If you can prove God isn't talking about Jesus, then I suppose your answers may go to the top of the chart of no-man's land. This will be interesting...

dolphinheart:


BUT YOU BROCAB, DO NOT KNOW WHO IS, WHO WAS, WHO IS COMING, you claim it is Jesus, and solite3 has said it's the father .

is solite3 right and are you wrong or are you right and he is wrong, pls TELL US.
IS JESUS THE SAME PERSONS AS THE FATHER?


be truthful sir! and stop Tryin to use words to confuse people, " who is coming" is a different sentence from "who is coming back", stop trying to merge them to create a false idea!

its good to note that you have contributed nothing to the issue of the Textus Receptus and revelation 1:11
you are trying to bring up the issue of rev 1:7,8 again, but then I posted it's understanding to you, you could not respond, dnt worry, I'll repost it soon.





you are a liar brocab, tell us, whO did I tell you the Alpha and omega is, and who does the organization tell you it is.?

READERS SHOULD PLS NOTICE THIS NEW LIE OF HIS AND CHECK IF HE WILL PRO DID PROOF OR ANSWER THE QUESTION



READERS SHOULD NOTE THAT AFTER MONTHS OF ASKING HIM, HE REFUSES TO TELL US THE NAME OF HIS CHURCH OR THE ORGANIZATION HE ASSOCIATES WITH.
HE COULD NOT EVEN PROVIDE IT'S WEBSITE.

Interesting. Elohim {Genesis 1:26} God said let us make man in Our own image. "LET US" When Elohim create's humanity God reveals Himself to be but one God.
And in {Isaiah 45:22} Turn to Me and Be saved, all to the ends of the earth, for I Am God and their is no-other.
Does Elohim mean Jesus came here to save the world and everything in it.
Elohim never lies. I Am the Lord your Elohim You shall not have no-other God's before Me {Exodus 20:2-3} Moses the prophet of The God Who does not lie, encougage the Israelites to take to heart this day, that the Lord is Elohim in heaven above and on the earth below. There is No Elohim besides Me. {Deuteronomy 4:39}
In the bible it was Elohim who walked in the garden, made a covernant with Abraham, wrestled with Jocob and spoke out of a burning bush. There was only one, It was Elohim who thrundered from Sinal, gave victory to Joshua, sanctified the temple and spoke to the prophets.
This God the God who does not lie, reveals Himself to be the only God there is, "Turn to Me and be saved" all you ends of the earth, for I Am Elohim and there is no-other. {Isaiah 45:22}
The God of truth says; See now that I Myself Am He, there is No Elohim besides Me. {Deuteronomy 32:39} [/color]
Plus the JW's don't preach anything that makes any sence, two gods one god, they don't know the differenece 'even if it is written in their own NWT bible.

johnw74:

Christians know that God and the Word is God

false jw preach that God and the word are two gods, Almighty God and mighty god
Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Christians know that God is one
false jw obviously don't believe it (above)

Christians know the one true God is: God and the Word and the Holy spirit, three persons, one God
false jw will never understand it, they don't have and cannot have a personal relationship with God, they think His Spirit is just His power,
Duh, God is Spirit, He is not just a power.





This is interisting brocab:

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

The original word “Elohim,” God, is certainly the plural form of “El,” or “Eloah,” and has long been supposed, by the most eminently learned and pious men, to imply a plurality of Persons in the Divine nature. As this plurality appears in so many parts of the sacred writings to be confined to three Persons, hence the doctrine of the Trinity, which has formed a part of the creed of all those who have been deemed sound in the faith, from the earliest ages of Christianity. Nor are the Christians singular in receiving this doctrine, and in deriving it from the first words of Divine revelation.

(Shema Yisrael, Yehowah, Elohainoo, Yehowah aichod.)
"Hear, Israel, Jehovah, our God, is one Jehovah."
On this passage the Jews lay great stress; and it is one of the four passages which they write on their phylacteries.
An eminent Jewish rabbi, Simeon ben Joachi, in his comment on the sixth section of Leviticus, has these remarkable words:
On the word Elohim, Simeon ben Joachi says: "Come and see the mystery of the word Elohim. There are three degrees, and each degree is by itself alone, and yet they are all one, and joined together in one, and are not divided from each other."See Ainsworth. He must be strangely prejudiced indeed who cannot see that the doctrine of a Trinity, and of a Trinity in unity, is expressed in the above words.

dolphinheart:


you might rest your case if you have nothing to say. But ill like you to point and quote where I said "no" to that question.

let's examine his defence using the word " original ones"
* by the sentence " original ones," I believe he is referring to the scriptures as written Down by the author, ie, the physical book/scroll/manuscript of revelation as written down by John himself!

do we have such book/schrolls / manuscripts today? NO!
did the Textus Receptus use it? NO!
did the Textus Receptus claim to get rev 1:11 from the original ones? NO ?

so pls solite3, can you tell us how not having or the older manuscripts not being the original ones make adding the words " Alpha and omega" to that verse by the testus Receptus the right thing to do .?

If you discredit the older manuscripts because they are not the original ones, then the Textus Receptus should not be opened at all, talk less of considering it.


NO SIR , THEY HAVE NOT!
Here they are again
:

Jesus has a God, yes or no,?
Jesus is subjected to that God , yes or no
if Jesus has a God, how can He then be almighty God ?


2. on April 27 jEphz
"for those saying Jesus is God.. pls. explain these Scripture for me ... Ephesians 5:1,2 1timothy 2:5 John 8:42 Act 2:22 Hebrews 12:2...... "

3. April 29
" the God of our Lord Jesus Christ " Eph 1:17, who is the God of Jesus Christ ?

4. "You say Jesus is still a man in heaven, you also say Jesus has a God when he was a man.
NOW DOES Jesus STILL HAVE A GOD IN HEAVEN?"

who anointed Jesus? who is that person to Jesus?
you can see that the questions are numbered, so dnt muddle it up , or give part response



there are, no invariables in my statements, if you are still not sure what I meant, I'll post those posts of mine again for you to see, and everyone will see if you will respond or still try to change the issues again, up till now you have not apologised for lying against me that I said Jesus and God gave one nature.


solite3, pls respond to these post if you can( it was posted on may 28, 1: 17pm)

[b]I've read your posts, I've even quoted them, unlike you who had abandoned some of my recent posts to you cus it contains questions you dnt want to answer.
I've told you and repeated it over and over again, there are no issues with Revelation 1:11 in manuscripts containing that verse!. because of these, you have decided to generalize the issue under discussion, expanding the discussion to include the whole book of Revelation, when all we are discussing is just a single verse!
that you cannot find flaws with the manuscripts redering of rev: 11 makes it imperative to believe that the Textus Receptus added those words "Alpha and omega" when it was compiling itself hundreds of years later. You could not even provide the source of the words added to that verse by the Textus Receptus!
I've given you 4 facts about that verse now, you could not disprove any.
You refuse to accept the words of that verse as recorded in the older and more reliable manuscripts, claimING the book of revelation had flaws. but you accept the verse in the test us Receptus , even when scholars and even it's own author agree that it had flaws. you assume this double standards just to protect a false doctrine.
The first verse of Revelation had set a precedent for you to use to examine the whole book, it tells you that "God gave Jesus" the revelation , God did not give himself, Jesus did not give himself, it was God who have Jesus the Revelation. God ( in the book of revelation)and Jesus are not the same person!
verse 4-6 also clears who is who in the Book of revaluation, it helps us to understand that the one who is, who was, and who is coming is different from Jesus Christ.
brocab says it's Jesus, you say it's the father, yet you refuse to discuss and tell the whole world who is right and who is wrong!
to make sure that you dnt confuse yourself on who the al mighty God is, Jesus told you severaly in that book that he has a God! , using the words " my God " several times in that book. I ve several times asked if the almighty can have a god superior to him, cus Jesus had now indicated when he was in heaven, when he came to earth, and when he back in heaven that he has a God! he did not just call that God "a God ", he said "my God", "your god" , "the only true god".
All this facts are presented to you in the Book of Revelation, you could not discuss any of them, but you choose to believe a verse from the Textus Receptus that you can't defend, that you can't show where the Textus Receptus got it from! that majority of scholars have shown to be spurious, that can't be found even in translations of the authors that surpport trinity.
lastly, even if you would not answer the questions being posted to you several times , pls van you tell us the name of your church or organization you associate with at the moment?[/b]

i don't understand your rant, I never told you those manuscripts were wrong I only emphasized that if those manuscripts were not the original and also many of those manuscripts do not even contain some chapters in revelations along with missing verses and considering the few number of manuscripts available combined with the history surrounding the canonisation of the book of revelation in general any sane person would not raise accusation as you are doing. It's like saying everybody in Nigeria are black only because Mr A, B, C are black. Scholars are only speaking base on the so called best available manuscripts we have today.

The difference betweenTextus Receptus (TR)and theW/H Nestle/Alandtexts is caused by two ancient manuscripts (CodexSinaiticus(Aleph)andCodexVaticanus(B)).The TR excludes these two manuscripts. The Nestle/Aland text includes them.Codex Sinaiticuswas retrieved from a wastepaper basket in a convent at the foot of Mount Sinai in A.D.1844.CodexVaticanus,a 4thcentury document, was found in 1481 in theVatican library in Rome,where it had lain virtually unused for over a thousand years.These two ancient manuscripts, both of which were considered unfit for use even by their own custodians, were seized uponin the later half of the 19thcentury and foisted on the unsuspecting Christian church in place of the trustedTextus Receptus. The following reference from page 554 of G.A.Ripplinger's bookNew AgeVersions(ISBN 0-9635845-0-2) refers:1."Metzger says that Sinaiticus and Vaticanus do not agree with the majority of manuscripts.s. Tampering with theWord of Godis infinitely more dangerous, both for thepublishersand theinformed usersof counterfeit Bibles. Let all who read this article pay close attention to the following divine warnings:Deuteronomy 4: 2Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.Revelation 22:18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19: And if any man shall take away from the words of the bookof this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.It is absolutely impossible for me to over emphasise the gravity of the above warning. Let all who read it - beware!3. DOUBT-LADEN FOOTNOTESThe NIV, like many other modern translations, contains many doubt-laden footnotes such as:*.'Many mss.(manuscripts)do not contain this verse.'*.'The best manuscripts read.'*.'The earliest mss read.'*.'Some ancient mss add.'*.'Some mss insert.'*.'Many ancient authorities read.'*.'Not found in most of the old mss.'*.'Some late manuscripts.'*.'Some manuscripts and certain Jews.'*.'Some manuscripts do not have…'These footnotes clearly show that the NIV translators,whilst putting on a show of apparent fairness,are really unsure of theirproduct; they doubt whether the NIV is God's Word for today. The editors obviouslydon't knowordon't believe it is,else they would not insert so many conflicting footnotes; which not only cast doubt on theKing James Bible, but also on their own version. These dubiousfootnotesall imply that since there are so many disagreeing manuscripts, no one can be absolutely certain as to which is thereal Word of God.In effect they say:'Take your pick, decide for yourself which manuscript or version you want to believe; for the fact is, no one can be certain what God actually inspired His prophets and apostles to write.''Yea hath God said?'(Gen.3:1) was, and stillis, Satan's main weapon against truth. He deceivedEvein the Garden of Eden by plantingdoubt concerning God's Wordin her mind. Satan is doing the very same thing with the modern translations of the Bible.They all cast doubt on the real Word of God (the KJV); and thoseinsinuating footnotesare the latest Satanic way of saying:'Hath God said?Is it any wonder there are so few Christians who really believe the Bible is the infallibleWord of God!4. THE PROOFWith these thoughts in mind we will now turn our attention to the actual verses which have been corrupted in the NIV. Remember that these texts are from theAuthorized Version (AV)and the words inbold typeindicate where theNIVhas omitted or corrupted the text.*.Genesis 12:18And Pharaoh called Abram,and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell methat she was thy wife? 19 Why saidst thou, She is my sister? soI might have taken her to me to wife.Comment:The NIV says:'Why didn't you tell me she was your wife? Why did you say she is my sister, sothat I took her to be my wife.'This is a serious mistranslation. The NIV implies that Pharaoh had already taken Sarah as his wife and had sexual intercourse with her; which was not the case.*.Genesis 49: 10The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, untilShilohcome; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.Comment:The titleShiloh,referring to Christ the Peacemaker, is missing.*.LUCIFER:Isa:14:12:How art thou fallen from heaven, OLucifer,son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!Comment:In the bookNew Age Bible Versions,G A Ripplinger writes on page 43 concerning this passage:"The ultimate blasphemy occurs when the'morning star'takesLucifer'splace in Isaiah 14. Jesus Christ is the'morning star'and is identified as such in Revelation 22:16 and 2Peter 1:19. With this slight of hand switch, Satan not only slyly slips out of the picture but lives up to his name'the accuser'' (Revelation 12:10) by attempting to make Jesus Christ the subject of the diatribe in Isaiah14."Modern Reference books also do notinclude the nameLucifer.As Ripplinger puts it: "The trend to ignore the KJV's Lucifer/Satan connection is shared by Luciferians and new version editors."*.Luke 4: 4: And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone,but by every word of God.Comment:Note the importance of'every word of God.'Dare we ignore the Saviour's answer to Satan by omitting hundreds of words from Scripture as do the NIV translators?*.Luke 4: 8: And Jesus answeredand said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan:for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.*.Luke 9: 56:For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.Comment:This vital passage in bold typeis [bracketed] in the NASV which was printed some seven years before the NIV.In the NIV this passage is deleted. Noticehow step by step modern translations are becoming more and more corrupt! First comes a[bracketed]verse with an insinuating footnote. Then in the next version the text isomitted,but the footnote remains. Finally the text and thefootnote will be omitted; and the poor, unsuspecting Christian who doesn't know what the AV says will be none the wiser.*.Matt.25: 13: Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hourwherein the Son of man cometh.*.Matt.27: 35: And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots:that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.*.Mark 6: 11: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye departthence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them.Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.*.Mark 13: 14: But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation,spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains.*.Luke 24: 52: And theyworshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.*.John 3: 15: That whosoever believeth in himshould not perish, but have eternal life.Comment:This is an extremely powerful verse. It guarantees that whoever believes in Jesus (identified in verse 14)should not perishbut have eternal life. But what do the NIV translators make of this verse? They mutilate it by deleting the words 'should not perish.'Then they inject uncertainty by using the word'may.'There is no assurance here, no divine guarantee or promise. Instead,'thebeliever…MAYin him have eternal life;'implying thereby that he 'May Not!'*.Rom.14: 10: But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seatof Christ.*.Col.3: 6: For which things' sake the wrath of God comethon the children of disobedience.*.1 Tim.3: 16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:Godwas manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.Comment:The wordGodhas been changed toHe.This is an attack on a cardinal truth, namely thatJesus Christ isGod incarnate;that is,God in human flesh!To replace'God'with'He'is a serious corruption of the text. It casts doubt on the divinity of Jesus Christ.*.1 John 4: 3: And every spirit that confesseth not that JesusChrist is comein the fleshis not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heardthat it should come; and even now already is it in the world.Comment:the wordChristmeans 'the anointed One, the Messiah!In this verse the NIV omits the fact thatJesus is the Messiah, the anointed of God, the Christ!Indeed whenever the word'Christ'is omitted from its rightful place in a modern translation, the fact that He is theMessiah, the anointed of God who has come in the flesh,'is being silently denied. That denial is itself clear evidence that the spirit of Antichrist is at work!*.1 Cor.5: 7: Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificedfor us.*.Col.1: 14: In whom we have redemptionthrough his blood,even the forgiveness of sins:*.1 Peter 4: 1: Forasmuch then as Christ hath sufferedfor usin the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hathceased from sin.In Me / On Me / Of Christ / In Christ / Through Christ*.John 6: 47: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believethon mehath everlasting life.*.Rom.1: 16: For I am not ashamed of the gospelof Christ:for it is the power of Godunto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to theGreek.*.Gal.3: 17: And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of Godin Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promiseof none effect.*.Gal.4: 7: Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of Godthrough Christ.*.Gal.6: 15: Forin Christ Jesusneither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.Denial of a Literal HeavenThe NIV translators also have a strange aversion to'heaven.'Notice how in the following four verses the references toheavenhave been removed.*.Luke 11: 2: And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, 'OurFatherwhich art in heaven,Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come.Thy will be done,as in heaven, so in earth.3: Give us day by day our daily bread. 4: And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation;but deliver us fromevil.Comment:In the NIV this prayer has 34 words. In the KJV it has 58! That's mutilation in any language.*.Heb.10: 34: For ye had compassion of mein my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye havein heavena better and an enduring substance.*.1 John 5:7: For there are three that bear recordin heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8:And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water,and the blood: and these three agree in one.Comment:Here is another example of massive mutilation.*.Rev.16: 17: And the seventh angel pouredout his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the templeof heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.*.Luke 2: 33: AndJosephand his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.Comment:The nameJosephhas been changed toHis father,thereby denying that God was the Saviour's Father not Joseph.*.Phil.4: 13: I can do all thingsthrough Christwhich strengtheneth me.Comment:As stated previously, the wordChristmeans theanointed One, the Messiah.The NIV replaces this Messianic title with the pronounHim,which could mean anyone.*.2 Cor.4: 14: Knowing that he which raisedup the Lord Jesus shall raise up us alsobyJesus, and shall present us with you.Comment:The wordbyhas been changed towith!This change makes the whole sentence total nonsense; becausethis letter to the Corinthians was written over25 years afterthe resurrection of Jesus. So how could any believer at that time be resurrected'with'Jesus?*.Eph.3: 9: And to make all men see what isthe fellowship of the mystery, which fromthe beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all thingsby Jesus Christ.Comment:The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus Christ (the living Word of God) created the universe. His Father was the architect, but the Son was the builder. The NIV translators deny this fact in the above verse by deleting the words'by Jesus Christ.'*.James 5: 16: Confess yourfaultsone to another, and pray one for another, that yemay be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.Comment:The word'faults'has been changed to'sins.'There is a big difference between a'fault'and a'sin.'A'fault'is a defect or weakness (i.e. a short temper, an inclination to over drink, over eat etc.) A'sin'is a direct transgression or violation of a divine command.'Faults'may lead to sin if no control is exercised. But'faults'are not'sins.''Faults'are weaknesses which could result in'sin'if not controlled; but faults are not sins. The practice of confessing sins to a priest is not Bible-based. Should Christians confess their sins to a priest? For the answer seeConfession.*.Acts 2: 30: Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins,according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne.Comment:The NIV renders this part of God's oath as'he would place one of his descendants on his throne.'Doesn't that make a mockery of God's oath? After all why did the Almighty bother to make an oath when in virtually every kingdom'one of the king's descendants'succeeds him.That's the normal procedure anyway; there's no need to make an oath about it. But when the Almighty promised king David that'He would raise up Christ to sit on David's throne'that is totally different; because it contains the promise that theMessiahwould come from David's line and; more importantly, that the Messiah would be'raised up,'that is,'resurrected from the grave'to sit on David's throne for all time!DELETIONS FROM THE BOOK OF REVELATIONThough the divine warning in Rev.22:18-19 applies to the whole Bible, it isparticularly applicableto the book of Revelation when the book itself would be understood. The NIV editors have ignored the divine warning by omitting the words or phrases inbold type:*.Rev.1: 8: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending,saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.*.Rev.1: 11: Saying,I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.*.Rev.2: 9: I knowthy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich)and I know the blasphemy of them whichsay they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.*.Rev.2:13: I knowthy works,and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is…*.Rev.2: 20: Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach andto seduce my servantsto commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.Comment:The word'astray'has been substituted for the word'fornication.'Anysolicitor will agree that God's warning about'fornication'in this verse has been blurred and weakened; especially in view of the specific instruction about'fornication'given in Acts 15:20 to the newly converted Gentiles.*.Rev. 2: 15: So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans,which thing I hate.*.Rev.5: 14: And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders felldown and worshippedhim that liveth for ever and ever.*.Rev.11: 17: Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast,and art to come;because thou hast takento thee thy great power, and hast reigned.*.Rev.16: 5: And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast,and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.*.Rev.16: 17: And the seventh angel pouredout his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the templeof heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.*.Rev.21: 24: And the nationsof them which are savedshall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.Comment:As mentioned above, deleting words from the Bible, especially from the book ofRevelation, carry an extremely heavy penalty (Rev.22:18-19). In this verses the NIV translators by deleting thewords'of them which are saved'have removed a vital proviso and allowed all nations to enter the new Jerusalem.The title Lord identifies Jesus as God Incarnate!This title is repeatedly omitted in the NIV.This is an inexcusable error. It dare not be overlooked or excused as an irrelevance, because that title Lord identifies Jesus asGod!*.Matt.13: 51: Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea,Lord.*.Mark 9: 24: And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears,Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.*.Mark 11:10Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that comethin the nameof the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.*.Luke 9: 57: And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him,Lord,I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.*.Luke 22: 31:And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat.*.Luke 23: 42: And he said unto Jesus,Lord,remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.*.Rom.6: 11: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christour Lord.*.1 Cor.15: 47: The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man isthe Lordfrom heaven.*.2 Cor.4: 10: Always bearing about in the body the dying ofthe LordJesus, that thelife also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.*.Gal.6: 17: From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks ofthe LordJesus.*.Col.1: 2: To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Fatherand the Lord Jesus Christ.*.1 Tim.1: 1: Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, andLordJesus Christ, which is our hope.*.1 Tim.5: 21: I charge thee before God, andtheLordJesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.*.2 Tim.4: 1: I charge thee therefore before God, andthe LordJesus Christ, who shalljudge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom.*.Titus 1: 4: To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father andthe LordJesus Christ our Saviour.*.2 John 1: 3: Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and fromthe LordJesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.*.John 6: 69: And we believe and are sure that thou art thatChrist, the Son of the living God.Comment:This vital verse which identifies Jesus as the'Messiah,'the'Christ,'the'Son of the living God'has been changed in the NIV to read: the'holy one of God;'a term which could apply to any prophet or godly person. Pause dear reader and try to take in what that means.MY Father changed to 'the' Father

The NIV casts doubt on the fact that GOD, not Joseph, was the Father of Jesus Christ.In the following four versesmy Fatheris changed tothe Father.*.John 8: 28: Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that Ido nothing of myself; but asmyFather hath taught me, I speak these things.*.John 10: 32: Jesus answered them, Manygood works have I shewed you frommyFather; for which of those works do ye stone me?*.John 14: 28: Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again untoyou. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: formyFather is greater than I.*.John 16: 10: Of righteousness, because I go tomyFather, and ye see me no more.5. BRACKETED VERSES[Bracketed verses] in other modern translations (i.e. NASV) are usually accompanied with misleading footnotes. In the NIV some texts are simply omitted and a footnote appears explaining why. However in large passages involving manytexts, such as the two given below, brackets are not used. Instead the passage is simply separated from the main text by a bold line and noted.*.Mark 16:9Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. 10: And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. 11: And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. 12: After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as theywalked, and went into the country. 13: And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. 14: Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17: And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18: They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on thesick, and they shall recover. 19: So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20: And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lordworking with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.Comment:Believe it or not the validity of this entire passage of 12 verses is doubted by the editors of the NIV. Unlike inthe NASV these 12 verses are not [bracketed]. Instead they are separated from the normal text by a bold line and accompanied by an insinuating and totally false Note which reads as follows:'The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20.'John Burgon'sbookThe Last 12 Verses of Markproves without a shadow of doubt that these verses, which contain many basic Christiandoctrines, were all part of Mark's Gospel. To suggest that they were not is to cast doubt on Mark's Gospel and the entire New Testament.*.A similar Note and bold line separates the 12 verses between John 7:53 and John 8:11 from the main text. They are alldoubted by the NIV editors.6. NO DOCTRINAL DIFFERENCES?The dictionary defines the word'doctrine'as 'a principle or set of principles and beliefs held by a religious or other group.'The NASV and NIV have replaced this meaningful word'doctrine'with'teaching;'a word which considerably detracts from the meaning God intended and which is a poor substitute for the 'doctrine.' In the following passages the meanigful noun'doctrine'has been replaced by the nebulous word'teaching.'Matt.7:28, Matt.15:9, 16:12, 22:33, Mark 1:22, 1:27, 4:2, 7:7, 11:18, 12:38, Luke 4:32, John 7:16-17, 18:19, Acts 2:42, 5:28, 13:12, 17:19, Rom.6:17, 16:17, 1 Cor.14:6, 14:26, 1 Tim.1:10, 4:16, 5:17,2 Tim.3:10, 3:16, 4:3,2 John 1:9, Rev.2:14, 15, 24.How true were the Apostles words when he wrote:2 Tim.4:3For the time will come when they will not endure soundDOCTRINE;but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselvesTEACHERS,having itching ears;Some believers claim that, even allowing for the above changes,no doctrinal differencescan be found in the NIV. Is this the case? Are we making a mountain out of a molehill? I think not. The reader will have noticed that in the passages already quoted many basic Christian doctrines are affected. To name a few:*.Is Jesus Christ the Creator?Did he actually makeall things?*.Is Jesus God?Should he be calledLord?Is He theSon of God,God incarnate, God in human flesh? Or was the carpenterJosephHis father?*.Is Jesus the Messiah, the Promised Anointed One,theChrist?If so, then why has His title'Christ'been omitted so often?*.The Resurrection:Did the Lord Jesus Christ actually come fromheavenand didHe return toheavenafter His resurrection? Is he inheaven? Is there a Temple inheaven? If you answer'Yes'to these questions, then why has the NIV omitted the wordheavenso often?*.Is Doctrine Important?If so then why has the robust and meaningful noun'doctrine'been almost phased out of the NIV and NASV? Perhaps it is because thedoctrinesthemselves are slowly but surely being eroded by misguidedteachers!*.And lastly, are the translators of the NIV confident that their product is indeed theWord of God?Or are those numerousfootnotesevidence of their colossal doubt; evidence that they themselves do not believe that there isany such thing today as the infallible WORD OF GOD!It is poor reasoning to justify a missing doctrine in one text by claiming it can be found in another part of the Scriptures. Who are we to decide or judge how often God specifies a doctrine? If He chooses to repeat a statement, even in the very next verse as in 1 John 4:2-3, let us beware of deleting one occurrence. There is absolutely no excuse for altering God's Holy Word.AsRev. Samuel C Gipponce said'Cut just one vein and you could kill a man as surely as if you had blown him to pieces!'If Satan had altered every text concerning a single doctrine his deception would havebeen soon discovered by even the casual Bible student. All he needed to deceive God's people was to alter or delete a word or sentence here and another word or sentence there. That was all that was necessary; and that is what he has so successfully done withevery modern translation.He has deceived millions of sincere Christians.In his bookMissing In Modern Bibles - Is the Full Story Being Told?Pastor Jack Moormanhas actually counted every word in the New Testament Greek Texts, both of theReceived Textand theRevised Text.He found that of the140,521 Greek wordsin theReceived Text,a total of2,886words were omitted from theRevised Textof Nestle-Aland and Westcott and Hort. These2,886 wordshave affected356 doctrinal passages!Pause and take note of that astonishing fact!Pastor Moorman reviews these356passages in another of his books entitledEarly Manuscripts and The Authorized Version --- A Closer Look.If you really want to ensure that the Bible you are studying every day is the veryWord of God,then take steps to obtain these books and study them. Another highly recommended book is by Rev. D.A. Waite entitledDefending the King James Bible.These books, and many, many others on this same subject of Bible Versions, are published byThe Bible For Today Press:900 Park Avenue, Collingswood, New Jersey 08108. U.S.A. See alsoReference Books on Bible Versions.7. MISSING TEXTSNot content with amending scores of textsand tagging them with misleading footnotes, the editors of the NIV have omitted many entire verses from their work. Here is a list of missing verses:*.Matthew 17:21Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.*.Matthew 23:14Woe unto you, scribes andPharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence makelong prayer: therefore ye shall receive thegreater damnation.*.Mark 9:44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.*.Mark 9:46Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.*.Mark 11:26But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.*.Luke 17:36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.*.Luke 23:17For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.*.John 5:4For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped inwas made whole of whatsoever disease he had.*.Acts 15:34Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.*.Acts 24:7But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands.*.Acts 28:29And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.*.Romans 16:24The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.*.Matthew 18:11For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which is lost.*.Mark 15:28And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.*.Acts 8: 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.SUMMARY1.Though this article deals exclusively withtextual corruption found in theNew International Version; the reader may compareanymodern translation against the texts listed in this article. TheAuthorized King James Versionon the other hand, is theinspired, preservedandinfallible Word of Godfor today; just as it has been for generations of Protestants for nearly 400 years.2.Every single word in the Bible is vital.Anyattempt to add, delete or change the text,especially in the book ofRevelation,attracts the wrath of Almighty God and could even result in the loss of eternal life. (Rev.22:18-19) Alas, modern man hasignored this awesome warning and produced scores of counterfeit bibles based on corrupt manuscripts. The NIV is one of these counterfeit bibles. It is strongly influenced by the two impure manuscripts:Codex SinaiticusandCodex Vaticanus.These have defiled the entire publication.3.Dubious Footnotesin the NIV cause one to conclude that the translators themselves donot believethe NIV (or any other translation) is the infallibleWord of God!In other words they do not believe the Almightyprovidentially preservedHis Word as He promised He would. In their opinion even the Bible is evolving; with each new translation coming somehow nearer to the inspired Masters penned by the prophets and apostles.4.In over 80 passageslisted here,11 of which are from the book of Revelation,the NIV translators have corrupted the Scriptures! God alone knows how disastrous their act of literary vandalism will turn out to be! Their guilt is great; butso is the guilt of Christians who, after being told the facts, continue to treat theNIV as the very Word of God, which it most certainly isn't.5.Bracketed Textsin other translations such as the NASV are simply omitted in the NIV. When they are included, as in Mark 16:9-20 and John 7:53- John 8:1-9, they are separated from the main body oftext with abold lineand commented upon in a totally false and misleading way.6.The idea that Vital Doctrines are unaffected in the NIV is a total fallacy;which only the naive will continue to believe. The fact is some2,886 wordsthat affect356 doctrinal passagesare missing from the Greek text that underlies the NIV! To suggest that these omissions make nodoctrinal differenceis as foolish as a mechanic suggesting that a bicycle wheel would be unaffectedand remain true even were you to remove6 of its 36 spokes! Or a space programmer claiming that deleting a few lines of computer coding would not affect the shuttle's performance; or supposing that miss-keying one alpha-character in a computer password wouldmake no difference. The fact is, the Wordof God is an infinitely precise and delicately balanced document. It is aliving, spiritual entity,with which mankind interferes at its peril. Anyone who has studiedMichael Drosnin'sbookThe Bible Codewill realize how importantevery letter and word in Scripture is. Remove just one alpha-character and a thousand meaningful sequences and links are affected. The NIV translators have chosen to infect their version with corrupt manuscripts andChristians who knowingly feed on their polluted product will not escape the consequences!Pause and take note of that terrifying prospect!7.The foundation text of the NIV (the NASVand most other modern translations) is theNestle/Aland Greek Text,which is2886 wordsshorter than the ancientTextus Receptuson which the KJV is based. The NIV, to my knowledge, totally omits 15 Bible texts. This is in flagrant defiance of the divine threat in Revelation 22:18-19. In the book of Revelation, with full knowledge of the warning in Chapter 22:18-19, the NIV editors omit45 wordsthat I know of. Pause and think about these stunning facts!Let the reader consider over and over again what is presented in this article. Because no greater deception can be aimed at the Christian Church than to make it doubt the tried and testedWORD OF GOD,theAuthorized King JamesVersion!
www.jesus-is-[url]saviour.com/NIV/new_International_version _exposed/httm[/url]

Solite3, dolphinheart always twist the words around, its only because he is loosing the battle against Christ.
Listen Dolphinheart sits at home everyday, kicking himself over the loneliness he lives, His twists the words we speak only because his spare time is over the top 'he watchers porn all through the night. This is why none what he writes makes any sense.

solite3:
i don't understand your rant, I never told you those manuscripts were wrong I only emphasized that if those manuscripts were not the original and also many of those manuscripts do not even contain some chapters in revelations along with missing verses and considering the few number of manuscripts available combined with the history surrounding the canonisation of the book of revelation in general any sane person would not raise accusation as you are doing. It's like saying everybody in Nigeria are black only because Mr A, B, C are black. Scholars are only speaking base on the so called best available manuscripts we have today.

brocab:
Interesting. Elohim {Genesis 1:26} God said let us make man in Our own image. "LET US" When Elohim create's humanity God reveals Himself to be but one God.
And in {Isaiah 45:22} Turn to Me and Be saved, all to the ends of the earth, for I Am God and their is no-other.
Does Elohim mean Jesus came here to save the world and everything in it.
Elohim never lies. I Am the Lord your Elohim You shall not have no-other God's before Me {Exodus 20:2-3} Moses the prophet of The God Who does not lie, encougage the Israelites to take to heart this day, that the Lord is Elohim in heaven above and on the earth below. There is No Elohim besides Me. {Deuteronomy 4:39}
In the bible it was Elohim who walked in the garden, made a covernant with Abraham, wrestled with Jocob and spoke out of a burning bush. There was only one, It was Elohim who thrundered from Sinal, gave victory to Joshua, sanctified the temple and spoke to the prophets.
This God the God who does not lie, reveals Himself to be the only God there is, "Turn to Me and be saved" all you ends of the earth, for I Am Elohim and there is no-other. {Isaiah 45:22}
The God of truth says; See now that I Myself Am He, there is No Elohim besides Me. {Deuteronomy 32:39} [/color]
Plus the JW's don't preach anything that makes any sence, two gods one god, they don't know the differenece 'even if it is written in their own NWT bible.

Stop deceving yourself, the apostles make it clear that Jesus is not the God of their forefathers . they are jews , so they know what they are saying:

" The God of our fathers raised up Jesus , whom you killed, having hanged Him on a tree." Act 5:30

Continue deceiving yourself.

brocab:
Solite3, dolphinheart always twist the words around, its only because he is loosing the battle against Christ.
Listen Dolphinheart sits at home everyday, kicking himself over the loneliness he lives, His twists the words we speaks only because his spare time is over the top 'he watchers porn all through the night, he writes between times on this page-to make it look like he is up with the news.

What! See rotten speech coming out from a so - called christian.

You need serious help. *sighs*

READERS SHOULD HAVE BY NOW NOTICED THE NEW LIE OF HIS AND CHECK TO SEE THAT HE DID NOT PROVID PROOF NOR DID HE ANSWER THE QUESTION

HE SAID :

But of course who aren't convinced, you believe the Alpha is somebody else. So you have even gone against your own organization, who believe other then what 'you believe.

I asked him :
"you are a liar brocab, tell us, whO did I tell you the Alpha and omega is, and who does the organization tell you it is.?"

HE HAS DECIDED TO RAMBLE RATHER THAN ANSWER
THE QUESTION.

brocab:
I didn't catch the first page, where you said you had explained who it is, who was, and who is coming?
So can you put it in writing once again and repeat yourself once more, who it is? Who do you believe who is coming.

WHere did I post this first page that you could not catch?, brocab, you are desperately trying to divert the questions I raised again, with the hope of not answering it

here it is again:
BUT YOU BROCAB, DO NOT KNOW WHO IS, WHO WAS, WHO IS COMING, you claim it is Jesus, and solite3 has said it's the father .

is solite3 right and are you wrong or are you right and he is wrong, pls TELL US.
IS JESUS THE SAME PERSONS AS THE FATHER?

Please explain Revelation since you are the one mouthing off you know the answers?

I've explained rev 1:7,8 , rev 1:1,4-6, heb 1:9 and rev 3:2,12, I mentioned you several times in each post, so dnt act as if you did not see it!

Who is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end, I Am the living one, I was dead, and behold I Am alive forevermore?
If you can prove God isn't talking about Jesus, then I suppose your answers may go to the top of the chart of no-man's land. This will be interesting...

provide scripture in which you quoted this from!, I'll quote it and explain it to you .

{Isaiah 48:16} surely tells the story, and now the Lord God and His spirit hath sent me.
This is even written in the New World Translation bible And now the sovereign Lord Jehovah had sent me, and His spirit.
It must be hard for the JW's to read their bible, when they believe the spirit of God is just a active force?
{1 John 5-7} Is a killer verse to the JW's.

johnw74:

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

dolphinheart:


EVERY ONE, PLS NOTICE THAT HE COULD STILL NOT POST OR QUOTE MY FULL POST

ON MAY 26 , 1:37 am( page 64 of these thread) John74 stated categorically that I said this :

"dolphinheart said that God and the Word is "a two headed god""

And of course he did, everyone including himself knows it, who was he referring to, Jack and Jill
but Oh how he twists and lies, like a good little false jw


concerning John 1:1, God and the Word, Jesus and God:

dolphinheart:
your God is two persons in one!, a two headed God!.

Lie Lie dolphinheart

I have asked you nicely and to repeat your so called answers to me, because I don't recall you even writing such a page back to me, who it is in {Revelation 1:8} I am the Alpha and the Omega say's the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is the come the Almighty?
Who is this scripture talking about?
Every eye will see Him coming in the clouds? Tell us your version who this is? If you did write it before then it will be easy for you to repeat your answers, because at this present moment you are making a lair out of yourself on this page.
Who is, who was, and who is to come. Show us who is coming-tell us who is the Alpha and the Omega? Tell us who is the beginning and the end, the first and the last?
Fill us in, with your answers-so I and all who chose to listen will see this page.
Show us who said I am the living one, I was dead, and look I am alive forevermore.

dolphinheart:

READERS SHOULD HAVE BY NOW NOTICED THE NEW LIE OF HIS AND CHECK TO SEE THAT HE DID NOT PROVID PROOF NOR DID HE ANSWER THE QUESTION

HE SAID :


I asked him :
"you are a liar brocab, tell us, whO did I tell you the Alpha and omega is, and who does the organization tell you it is.?"

HE HAS DECIDED TO RAMBLE RATHER THAN ANSWER
THE QUESTION.


WHere did I post this first page that you could not catch?, brocab, you are desperately trying to divert the questions I raised again, with the hope of not answering it

here it is again:
BUT YOU BROCAB, DO NOT KNOW WHO IS, WHO WAS, WHO IS COMING, you claim it is Jesus, and solite3 has said it's the father .

is solite3 right and are you wrong or are you right and he is wrong, pls TELL US.
IS JESUS THE SAME PERSONS AS THE FATHER?


I've explained rev 1:7,8 , rev 1:1,4-6, heb 1:9 and rev 3:2,12, I mentioned you several times in each post, so dnt act as if you did not see it!


provide scripture in which you quoted this from!, I'll quote it and explain it to you .

Is the word of God deceiving you, because I write what the word had said, and you believe I am deceiving myself?
No you are deceiving yourself. Did you know not even the disciples, argued against the word of God, as much as you argued against it.

Jozzy4:


Stop deceving yourself, the apostles make it clear that Jesus is not the God of their forefathers . they are jews , so they know what they are saying:

" The God of our fathers raised up Jesus , whom you killed, having hanged Him on a tree." Act 5:30

Continue deceiving yourself.