And another bomb goes off in Iraq. 'talk about 'competence' of western troops stationed there,

ocelot2006:

And another bomb goes off in Iraq. 'talk about 'competence' of western troops stationed there,

there presence has limited the number of bombs gong off, and the location where they set off

Lol what the heck ROFLMAO and falling of my seat. What is this kind of training supposed to teach them to do
ROFLMAO again
Looks more like punishment, not training.

lol. . .i'm sure if american politicians were as well trained as nigerian politicians then their soldiers will be as well behaved as ours. Earlier this year, i had a soldier tell me her loves his job, that he'll still work if he isnt paid and thats the way it is for a lot of them, u cant imagine how nigerian policemen and soldiers are treated by the politicians and the masses they are s'posed to protect!

P.S. @davidif
i noticed you have a 'we and them' approach to this whole thing. . .if you're going to be biased then just rest! abi are you a U.S. soldier?

@ Fhemmmy, the point u made on the presence of western troops limiting the bombs that got is simply BS. Their very presence is the main reason why Iraq's a mess. The reduction in the number of killings and suicide bombing was as a result of two things:

1- the emergence of the AWAKENING COUNCIL. This body is a collection of sunni insurgency groups that where initially responsible for a large number of US fatalities. However, they got tired of the killing of innocent civilians, and thus turned against their former ally al-qaeda.

2- IRAN. Iran, through it's military arm PASDARAN, Qud force, and intelligence agencies were responsible for the inflow of arms and IEDs to shia militia groups in iraq. They were also responsible for the EFP, a dreaded weapon used against US armoured vehicles with devastating effect. The iranians later chose to limit the inflow of weapons for a simple reason- they currently control/influence the govt of iraq. The last thing they need is an unstable iraq at its borders.

ocelot,

Don't get me wrong, i have respect for all the men who fought and died for the Federal Republic of Nigeria. I was just attacking the structure and the organization itself.
when i mean an institutional failure i meant that it is an institution that has not worked properly because there is no accountability. The boys at the infantry division do anything they like whenever they are being called in to stop civil unrests. I saw one on youtube the other day where a soldier stripped a woman naked and i never heard that the SOLDIER WAS EVER COURT MARTIALED. When the Choba incident broke out in the news media and there were pictures of soldiers engaged in sexual acts with women of the local populace, i never heard even heard about a millitary tribunal to look into what happened. What happens in good institutions is that there is accountability. There is always a review of what went wrong and how to stop it from happening again. The guys who were involved in Abu Ghraib were court martialed and punished (by the way, what the US army did in Abu Ghraib, isn't that what we do in some of our boarding schools). Last time i checked Chris Garba hasn't been punished or even reprimanded, heck, even the exploits of OBJ and Fajuyi were never investigated after the war? That's because in the naija army its not the same because we've seen the same things happen time and time again. This lack of accountability is as a result of institutional breakdown. My guess is that the problem is because the minister of defense is almost always an ex-soldier, so instead of shaking things up in the millitary, they cuddles the generals too much a la Yakubu Danjuma. Look what happened during the boko haram incident, there has been no hearings the heavy handed tactics of the millitary. Your boys in the millitary don't know how to show restraint, they just react without thinking, most of them don't even have conscience, they treat the people that they are supposed to be protecting like animals. I even heard one general say that if people are going to behave like animals, then they should be treated as one, that is a total indictment against the Nigerian millitary.
Another reason why i call the Nigerian millitary an institutional failure is that you have a case of soldiers selling weapons to the enemy. This are the same people they are supposed to be fighting, i thought that was supposed to be called TREASON. These are not isolated incidents as there have also been case were soldiers were renting there weapons to armed robbers. WHERE IS THE OVERSIGHT IN THE NIGERIAN ARMY?
There have been several other examples showing that failure of this institution, have we forgetten what happened at the Ikeja cantonement in '02, do you think that kind of thing would have happened over here?

And another bomb goes off in Iraq. 'talk about 'competence' of western troops stationed there, 

The US won the iraq war, the problem they had was in keeping the peace because of the blunder of Paul Bremer and Donald Rumsfeld but since we changed the gauntlet things have gotten much better. Yes, there is the occasional car bomb in baghdad but that is not representative of what is going on in the entire country. On a side note, do you think your boys would've done any better in Iraq? Tell me who can defeat the US in a conventional war? When you can answer these question then get back to me.



"We salute the rank and not the man" - Band of Brothers

You are completely missing the point of military training anywhere in the world. It is to train soldiers to locate and destroy the enemy.
To be able to do this soldiers must undergo brutalization. Regardless of what you think there is nothing natural or humane about killing fellow humans so that is why recruits must undergo a period of intense mental and emotional reconditioning before they can be considered as being battle-ready.

Tensor77,
I know but standing on your head does not make you a more accurate shooter, neither does it make you to be able to locate the enemy and "take him out" now does it? These brutalization you see is why our soldiers have no compassion at all for the people they are supposed to be defending, this things "kills there soul" so they have no human emotion at all and therefore have no empathy for the weak and innocent, THAT IS WHY THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO SHOW ANY RESTRAINT AT ALL, just look at how they handled the whole "boko haram" situation where they a lot of innocent bystanders got killed. To me that right there means incompetence. If you are a soldier you always keep your emotion in check, you kill only when you have to and not because you can. Life is precious you know.

@ocelot2006

Stop it right there!!!

Stop encouraging and inspiring brain damage by excusing it as military training.

You've been there and done it right? That's why

FL Gators,
wo, fiile mo ti sofun ti, ko fe daun.

FL Gators:

@ocelot2006

Stop it right there!!!

Stop encouraging and inspiring brain damage by excusing it as military training.

You've been there and done it right? That's why

If I don't stop, what will you do?

y'all should stop comparing the US army with the nigerian army, if it paining u guys then go and write letters jo!. . .y'all can talk from today till tomorrow it wont change anything, how do you know US soldiers dont go through worse sef?. . .

Torture to say the least. Little wonders when they come out with with no human feelings at all.
Standing on your head for so long and on a stone- Surely the brain is dead.

@poster: How did you get these pictures?

davidif:

ocelot,

Don't get me wrong, i have respect for all the men who fought and died for the Federal Republic of Nigeria. I was just attacking the structure and the organization itself.
when i mean an institutional failure i meant that it is an institution that has not worked properly because there is no accountability. The boys at the infantry division do anything they like whenever they are being called in to stop civil unrests. I saw one on youtube the other day where a soldier stripped a woman naked and i never heard that the SOLDIER WAS EVER COURT MARTIALED. When the Choba incident broke out in the news media and there were pictures of soldiers engaged in sexual acts with women of the local populace, i never heard even heard about a millitary tribunal to look into what happened. What happens in good institutions is that there is accountability. There is always a review of what went wrong and how to stop it from happening again. The guys who were involved in Abu Ghraib were court martialed and punished (by the way, what the US army did in Abu Ghraib, isn't that what we do in some of our boarding schools). Last time i checked Chris Garba hasn't been punished or even reprimanded, heck, even the exploits of OBJ and Fajuyi were never investigated after the war? That's because in the naija army its not the same because we've seen the same things happen time and time again. This lack of accountability is as a result of institutional breakdown. My guess is that the problem is because the minister of defense is almost always an ex-soldier, so instead of shaking things up in the millitary, they cuddles the generals too much a la Yakubu Danjuma. Look what happened during the boko haram incident, there has been no hearings the heavy handed tactics of the millitary. Your boys in the millitary don't know how to show restraint, they just react without thinking, most of them don't even have conscience, they treat the people that they are supposed to be protecting like animals. I even heard one general say that if people are going to behave like animals, then they should be treated as one, that is a total indictment against the Nigerian millitary.
Another reason why i call the Nigerian millitary an institutional failure is that you have a case of soldiers selling weapons to the enemy. This are the same people they are supposed to be fighting, i thought that was supposed to be called TREASON. These are not isolated incidents as there have also been case were soldiers were renting there weapons to armed robbers. WHERE IS THE OVERSIGHT IN THE NIGERIAN ARMY?
There have been several other examples showing that failure of this institution, have we forgetten what happened at the Ikeja cantonement in '02, do you think that kind of thing would have happened over here?


The US won the iraq war, the problem they had was in keeping the peace because of the blunder of Paul Bremer and Donald Rumsfeld but since we changed the gauntlet things have gotten much better. Yes, there is the occasional car bomb in baghdad but that is not representative of what is going on in the entire country. On a side note, do you think your boys would've done any better in Iraq? Tell me who can defeat the US in a conventional war? When you can answer these question then get back to me.



"We salute the rank and not the man" - Band of Brothers

The incident between the young lady and the naval policemen on youtube was highly regretable, and I personally did not support what happened. Even the President and C-in-C waded in on the matter, although I personally don't know how it was resolved.

That said, the issue of sexual assaults/rape during the assualt in Choba was simply false for one simple reason: Choba was a ghost town. How do you rape someone in town when everyone had already abandoned the town? The town itself was cordoned off during and days after the operation (standard ops procedure). And I believe there was an independent panel set up at the end of the operation to investigate the conduct of the units that partook in that operation. I would also like to point out that I saw the picture of the alledged sexual assault. Now ask yourself this simple question: assuming you intended to rape someone, will you be so stupid to take a photo of you in the act? In the photo itself, the "soldier" and "victim" were both backing the camera. So how do you determine their IDs?

And the Boko Haram incident? PLEASE! 2008, the founder of the sect was arrested by the SSS and sent to court. Despite the evidences placed against him by both the SSS and the Police Force, the Abuja High Court released. That same scum and his followers were later responsible for the recent crisis that engulfed 5 states of the federation, and were responsible for the deaths of innocent people (christians and muslims) and the desruction of properties. Do you think the military would treat the sect with kid gloves? At the sects compound, the followers of the sect opened fire on the military, and the military had EVERY RIGHT to take the actions it did to protect itself and defend innocent civilians. The wives and children of the sect followers were NEVER harmed in any way, and were sent back to their parents. Now, apart from the execution of the leader and financier of Boko Haram (which was largely supported), list out anything that the military had done wrong.

And on the issue of the sails of military weapons illegally, there are only two cases that I know of. The first being the sales of aircraft parts by some airforce officers in the 1990s and the sales of firearms to militants by some army officers recently. In the case of the first, the officers involved were tried in a military court-martial and got the death sentence. And in the 2nd, all those involved also faced court martial and are currently in jail. The Nigerian Armed Forces takes the cases of indicpline and treason seriously. Remember that the same weapons sold are the ones used against them with the creeks of the Niger-Delta.

Finally, in the case of Iraq, I seriously doubt that the Nigerian military would have done better keeping the peace. But maybe we would've tried to secure all the weapons caches spread all around the country instead of focusing on the oil wells. And please don't think that the US's victory over Iraq means that it is undefeatable conventionally. Remember that an already weakened and demoralized Iraqi military with absolutely NO airforce had to face not only the US, but the UK, Spain, Australia, Poland and other members of the so-called coalition of the willing. Even the Indian Airforce trounced its counterparts from the US during the Cope India exercise in 2004 and the Red Flag exercise in 2008 in Nevada. When the US is able to defeat the Russian Federation or the Peoples Republic of China, and not some 3rd-world country, then we'll talk about the US's supremacy.

davidif has very solid points. However I disagree with any comparison of our local instituitions to foreign ones, as if we are 2nd class and must perpertually look up to them. Aside from that davidif is 100% correct.
There are people in Nigeria that both the govt and army see as less than maggots, so they are killed off like flies in massacre after massacre. You have to assume something is wrong when a countries soldiers slaughters some of "its people" the way even animals are not slaughtered. Consider the most recent massacre in Gbaramatu; the army were looking for Tompolo and decided that the best way to find him was to carpet bomb the places he was suspected to be in. So whole villages were levelled, and that is searching? Something is dreadfully wrong.
The trouble in the Niger Delta would not be so bad if not for the actions of the army; they and the police have taken 50,000 plus lives (before Gbaramatu) and wiped out 20+ villages. The army behaves quite like civilians are from another country; is the phrase "bloody civilian" still in use? That single phrase tells the whole story of relations between the army and the populace.
If the sort of training in these pictures is the cause of such aborminable behaviour, then it desperately needs changing. Nigeria has run the gamut of what brutal force can achieve and is now tearing itself apart.

Beaf:

davidif has very solid points. However I disagree with any comparison of our local instituitions to foreign ones, as if we are 2nd class and must perpertually look up to them. Aside from that davidif is 100% correct.
There are people in Nigeria that both the govt and army see as less than maggots, so they are killed off like flies in massacre after massacre. You have to assume something is wrong when a countries soldiers slaughters some of "its people" the way even animals are not slaughtered. Consider the most recent massacre in Gbaramatu; the army were looking for Tompolo and decided that the best way to find him was to carpet bomb the places he was suspected to be in. So whole villages were levelled, and that is searching? Something is dreadfully wrong.
The trouble in the Niger Delta would not be so bad if not for the actions of the army; they and the police have taken 50,000 plus lives (before Gbaramatu) and wiped out 20+ villages. The army behaves quite like civilians are from another country; is the phrase "bloody civilian" still in use? That single phrase tells the whole story of relations between the army and the populace.
If the sort of training in these pictures is the cause of such aborminable behaviour, then it desperately needs changing. Nigeria has run the gamut of what brutal force can achieve and is now tearing itself apart.

Carpet Bombing?! 50,000 lives?! Beaf, where the hell are you getting your information from ?!! Or are you just forming it up yourself? BULLS@#T!!

Do you know what it means to carpet bomb a target? Non of our ground attack aircrafts can carry that much payload!! So please, enough with the false information . Haba!

Wasn't it the strategy to bomb seven devils out of Gbaramatu. . . Just in case Tompolo was there? The facts are on the ground.

As for the figures, they are everywhere. Those are the figures all NGO's use and they are conservative, Nigeria is not doing its name any good with its indiscriminate use of ordinance against populations it claims to be Nigerian. For those affected, it is as clear as day. Like I said, both the govt and army see some of the population as less than maggots that can be slaughtered in disgusting ways. Do you deny that?

If some of this behaviour is due to military training, it really needs looking into.

@Davidif

It is totally out of order to call the Nigerian Army an institutional failure. What is known is that they have been able to successfully accomplish various missions assigned to it since independence in pusuit of Nigeria's strategic objectives.

We are talking about objectives like:-

1) Protecting Nigeria's territorial integrity

2) Ensuring that  internal security threats are suppressed

3) Ensuring peace and security in the West African subregion

4) Contributing troops to UN peace-keeping missions

These are the criteria by which the armed forces should be judged and not whether Nigeria is able to project military power on a global scale like the USA.

FL Gators:

@ocelot2006

Stop it right there!!!

Stop encouraging and inspiring brain damage by excusing it as military training.

You've been there and done it right? That's why

You are the one that called it military training when people who know have told you it is not. The pictures represents cadets undergoing stress-position punishments administered by their peers.

And who told you that cadets in Western countries don't undergo similar or worse punishments when they  commit  offences or go against the rules and regulations of their unit?

The hazing tradition has been practised in Western military academies for centuries.

A young russian recruit being hazed by a senior

It is totally out of order to call the Nigerian Army an institutional failure. What is known is that they have been able to successfully accomplish various missions assigned to it since independence in pusuit of Nigeria's strategic objectives.

We are talking about objectives like:-

1) Protecting Nigeria's territorial integrity

2) Ensuring that  internal security threats are suppressed

3) Ensuring peace and security in the West African subregion

4) Contributing troops to UN peace-keeping missions

These are the criteria by which the armed forces should be judged and not whether Nigeria is able to project military power on a global scale like the USA.

geez, i didn't say that Nigeria's armed forces should be judged by projecting there millitary might on a global scale. Read my last post to ocelot, will you.

ocelot
I found something on the web that you might like http://naijablog..com/2009/08/burma-boys.html


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8201717.stm

sunnybobo

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?!?!? WHY DO YOU WANT TO TRAUMATIZE US WITH THESE USELESS PICTURE.

davidif:

ocelot
I found something on the web that you might like http://naijablog..com/2009/08/burma-boys.html


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8201717.stm

Ehe David! Now you're talking! Your video simply proved my point that our boys served there in Burma and served valiantly. And on the point made about the Japanese being snakes, that was SO true. Compared to other warring parties in the pacific theater, the Japanese were exceptionally good in camoflaging themselves using foilage, thus breaking the silhouette of their bodies. A natural ghillie suit to blend with their environment. It's tactics like these that are currently used in the modern art of jungle warfare.

That said, thanks a bunch for the video !I read about their exploits a few years ago, but now I get to see these warriors .

Sunny_bobo:

A young russian recruit being hazed by a senior

HeeHee . Guy, u wan blind me ?

oga ocelot, don't get carried away just yet, see how your boys performed here.


http://panafricannews..com/2009/08/us-military-holds-war-games-aimed-at.html

I have watched this topic closely for quite some time just to continue reading civilian comments, (no offence meant), and i feel it is time i drop my views.First of all, i am a cadet of the Nigerian Defence Academy, secondly, sunny wateva, u didn,t have to put those pics on the net.DID IT FEEL RIGHT WHEN YOU WERE POSTING THEM ONLINE?, WHAT DID YOU HOPE TO ACHIEVE?, HAVE YOU ACHIEVED IT?,
        People, yes, those pics are from the NDA, since u,ve all seen them,there is no point in denying it, lemme just get a few things clear, those are all cadets receiving disciplinary action for one form of offence or the other and not our daily training, for chrissakes you do not expect us to kneel down and raise our hands up as punishment!!, if u heard dat dat was the sort of punishment we did here, will you honestly vouch for the ruggedity of your armed forces?, what bothers me is why this sunny bobo fool did not deem it fit to post pictures of quality training,airborne training,drill parades,shooting or marksmanship,cross country races,obstacle crossing,academic branch pictures,games or passing out parades or any other activities we go through here, he just had to show the whole world the grimey part, sunny bobo, we ,ve seen your work, we thank you, may we find you, soonest,
         So fellow Nigerians, don,t be in a hurry to judge us based on some pictures, from the 1st regular combatant  course till the 60th now,this has been the training, no military officer will eva tell u dat he regrets eva having served puttee or dat he is ashamed of it, it is what we are, who we are and we are proud of it, thank you

hehehehehehehehehehehehehe
They really need to learn how it is done. properly!
Mr clay with tree on head , of what use will that be?!
God bless Nigeria

megadeath:

I have watched this topic closely for quite some time just to continue reading civilian comments, (no offence meant), and i feel it is time i drop my views.First of all, i am a cadet of the Nigerian Defence Academy, secondly, sunny wateva, u didn,t have to put those pics on the net.DID IT FEEL RIGHT WHEN YOU WERE POSTING THEM ONLINE?, WHAT DID YOU HOPE TO ACHIEVE?, HAVE YOU ACHIEVED IT?,
People, yes, those pics are from the NDA, since u,ve all seen them,there is no point in denying it, lemme just get a few things clear, those are all cadets receiving disciplinary action for one form of offence or the other and not our daily training, for chrissakes you do not expect us to kneel down and raise our hands up as punishment!!, if u heard dat dat was the sort of punishment we did here, will you honestly vouch for the ruggedity of your armed forces?, what bothers me is why this sunny bobo fool did not deem it fit to post pictures of quality training,airborne training,drill parades,shooting or marksmanship,cross country races,obstacle crossing,academic branch pictures,games or passing out parades or any other activities we go through here, he just had to show the whole world the grimey part, sunny bobo, we ,ve seen your work, we thank you, may we find you, soonest,
So fellow Nigerians, don,t be in a hurry to judge us based on some pictures, from the 1st regular combatant course till the 60th now,this has been the training, no military officer will eva tell u dat he regrets eva having served puttee or dat he is ashamed of it, it is what we are, who we are and we are proud of it, thank you

@ Mega,

Since I couldn't post the bolded pics, could you please come to my rescue by posting them here for all to see.

@sunny-interesting,.why not try the source that provided you with your initial pics?

@vanity-the purpose of the mud is to waste ur tyme by ensuring that u have to wash up as well as to embarass you and it is reserved for serious offences only,besides recruits in the British and American armies go through similar stuff to remove the civilian queasiness associated with mud bathing as you never know where ops will take you.i hope i have succeeded in educating you.

vanitty:

hehehehehehehehehehehehehe
They really need to learn how it is done. properly!
Mr clay with tree on head , of what use will that be?!
God bless Nigeria

I wonder oh.
Truely, God help our country Nigeria.

@ All

My brother went for Military Training at Kadua for the past 3months and nobody have heard from him. His phone is no going thru and he hasnt called anybody. Pls does anybody any info on this. We are worried, but pple keep saying that all is well, that they could have seized their phones. We dont even know if the training is over. How long does such trainings last?

@ megadeath SOMEBODY PLEASE TELL ME THESES PICTURES ARE FAKE. Is this possible? NO!!! I no gree. It cannot be real. Which kain thing the recruit fit do wrong to deserve that kain punishment/training. What exactly are they teaching you guys over there? What exactly will you learn with that kind of barbaric training regimen/torture? Men, if you are trying to tell me that it will make you tough then you have learnt nothing and your drill sergents have failed woefully. I am a soldier and the worst that was ever done to me during basic training was to make me and my battle buddy run kilometer upon kilometer until our legs were sore. Multiple objectives were met with that kind of punishment. 1) next time your battle buddy will not let you f##$k up ever again. I was the one that messed up, but we shared in the punishment. 2) They are trying to form a unit where every man will look out for the other. 3) physical fitmess will be achieved. I am still scratching my head as to the lessons they were trying to teach with those kind of training tactics. The best they will get out from you is fear. For here dem no born you well to lay a finger on a fellow recruit no matter your rank. ONLY IN NIGERIA