TV01 :

Temples built with hands, duh!
In John 4, the Lord encounters the woman by the well. In conversation The Lord at once disabuses her of her misunderstanding and at the same time gives her insight into Gods intention. (Worship of God would no longer be mandated to a to a place or location).

21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
The Lord prophesied the ending of temple worship

Matthew 24:1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." And that was immediately after he had cried out in lamentation. Matthew 23: 37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate;

Why was Stephen martyred?

Simply because he declared the system of temple worship redundant; Acts 7:48 However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says: 49 'Heaven is My throne, And earth is My footstool. What house will you build for Me? says the Lord, Or what is the place of My rest?……………

Acts 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. A post-conversion Saul (Paul) was later to echo these words to the Athenians. Acts 17:24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.

All the high traditions of church have been there. The beauty of some of the Catholic cathedrals is breathtaking. St. Peters Basilica in Rome may well move you to tears (http://www.ewtn.com/gallery/sp/sp1.htm), but God is not there. I have visited Anglican churches with frescos that would make you weep. But God is not there. Some traditional church buildings are architectural masterpieces, rightly listed as cultural heritage sites, but God is not there. So, converted light industrial units, re-cycled cinemas and multi-million building projects are all passé, they are religion. God is not there. Truth is, Jesus does not have a (physical) house!

Church is not something you go to, it’s not something you attend, church is something you are. Welcome to Gods Temple. Built with living stones (1 Peter 2:5). It’s transportable, reproducible, easily erected, adaptable, nimble and organic. IT’S ALIVE! Buildings, which are acquired at great cost and barely used, are redundant. The Bible says “Daily” (9 times in the book of Acts alone!), church is everyday in every place, where Gods people (Temple) are. The Church of England is flogging buildings hand over fist. And their own records show that majority use for most of the buildings that remain is for non-church activity. God is not there.

How many times? How plainly? And how blindingly obvious, could the Lord make this truth? ~ NO PHYSICAL BUILDINGS AND NO PHYSICAL OFFERINGS! (Physical sacrifice maybe, but who preaches that?) Resources that should be used to nourish the living temple of God are diverted into physical temples. Money moves in response to need in the body, or to the needy outside (a form of Christian love and witness) full stop.
Mindless temple building is the epitome of pagan worship. Almost all ancient religions had their temples, male/female high priesthoods, temple prostitutes, sacrifices, arcane rituals and a busy sideline in merchandise. A physical church (organization) will ultimately become a den of thieves and a habitation for unclean things. The only thing that awaits these carnal physical structures, along with the attendant man made traditions is desolation.

Matthew 21:12-13 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves. 13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

So when they say “we are trusting God for a building”, what they are really hoping is that they can wheedle enough money out of you to acquire one. At best they are misled and misleading, and at worst they are just religious hucksters, preying on peoples faith and ignorance. They are either blindly treading a well-worn religious path, or simply making merchandise of you in order to acquire an expensive backdrop for their vaulting ambition. It’s business (Industry – Entertainment, sector Religion, sub-sector Churchianity).

The plethora of functional titles, administrative hierarchies and reporting lines are reminiscent of corporate entities (which is essentially what they are. See if you can spot the multinationals, the franchises and the one-man businesses). There’s a spirit behind this, manifested in hierarchies, departments, budgets, programs, schedules and such idolatrous concepts as of “my pastor”, “my church”, “my ministry”.

Take the dozen or more levels between the congregation and head of the Roman Catholic tradition for example. From the pope, cardinals, archbishops and bishops down to the “faithful” there exists something like fourteen different levels! You can call it what you please, but it’s a mediatory priesthood, just with a different name. If it walks like a duck and it quacks! All the other traditions have their equivalents.

The newer traditions do seem to have a penchant for bombast (probably explained by the fact that they lack the historical weight and theatrical wardrobe of the so called “high traditions”). Hence, the love of titles like “GO” (the ambitions of some would suggest that the “G” is for galactic!), “Covering Apostle”, “Prophetess to the Nations” and my personal favourite “Armour Bearer”. I guess cheap suits and bad (or just badly dyed) hair, will never acquire the “ecclesiastical chic” of an intricately embroidered mitre and robes.

Church traditions, denominations, sects, communions, synods (or just plain old “membership”) and the like mean nothing to God and have nothing to do with true Christianity. The bible clearly states that; “Christ knows those who are His” (2 Timothy 2:19). None of those things will make your calling and election sure. Hebrews 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect. The only membership that counts is being in the book of life of the Lamb! Whether one is spiritually mature enough to discern it or not, becoming a member, joining a sect, the various ordinations, sacraments and pledges all co-join you with spiritual harlotry (More on this in a later WIT).

Church is simply accessed by faith in Christ. The assembly comprises of all who through time, have placed their faith in the completeness of the Lord Jesus Christ’ saving work. And another thing, written constitutions, creeds and codes are an utter fallacy. Mission statements for Christians, as much as they exist are all to be found clearly stated in the Bible. Think about it, the only reason an addendum would be required is because it contains something not in the original document. So pray tell what’s missing?

KunleOshob:

I just thought i should mention that TVO1 and i met recently while he was on a brief trip to Nigeria and we were able to fellowship together, compare notes and share the true gospel of christ with one another. Whilst we both agreed that we might not yet be on the perfectly right track we both agreed that there were several things wrong with the church today and it is certainly not of christ. I would leave you guys with this passage not just to read but to digest and deeply reflect on

Matthew 7:13-14:
13 “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. 14 But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.

jagunlabi:

Can you share the "true gospel of christ" with folks here?What,in your own opinion,are the true teachings of Jesus that the church has departed from?I am curious to know.
BTW,congrats on your departure from organized religion.

KunleOshob:

Having studied the new testament very well i came to the realization that the central focus of the gospel of christ was LOVE everything he did and preached was all about love and he repeatedly emphaisized the need for us to love one another through out the new testament. This i believe should be the central focus of any true church that claims to be doing the will of christ. The early church in the new testament radiated so much love to it's members and made it a point of duty to help those in need amongst them church collections then were meant for helping the poor and needy and not "running the church as our greedy pastors claim today" The early church was a good example of love in action but today that essential ingredient of the church is glaringly absent[ they only pay lip service to it]. Today most churches are about the instutuition itself and the leadership it is all about money, power and control. And contrary to wath they preach they are very carnal. The truth is that if you study the bible very well you would realize that there is no difference between our christian leaders today and the pharisees that christ condenmed in the bible.

jagunlabi:

It is very interesting you mentioning "the early church".Was there any church mentioned in the NT or am i missing something.For all i know,Jesus was a wandering preacher in the ancient Judea,and he never had a church.

Tùdor:

@kunleoshob
Good for you!
What's left is to start your own church and be true. . .hopefully you'd be blessed with a jet sometime soon. . . .

Tùdor:

@kunleoshob
Good for you!
What's left is to start your own church and be true. . .hopefully you'd be blessed with a jet sometime soon. . . .

origina9ja:

so is that AN EXCUSE TO STOP "FELLOWSHIPPING" GOING TO CHURCH

Pastor AIO:

Where 2 or more are gathered in my name, I'll be there.

fellowship can happen anywhere were 2 likeminded people (ie 2 fellows) get together for a common cause. 

origina9ja:

so are does two gana gathered in thier living room or what??
fair enough that we have problem in churches today
but leaving a church aint going to solve anything
abi is thier something i'm missing,

As a gospel believing christian i have always yearned to know God better and to understand his perfect will for my self and his purpose for the existence of man. over the years i have studied various countless christian literature both biblical and historical i have sort to understand what exactly the gospel of christ was all about and i realize it has always been their very obvious in the bible glaring at us all in the face yet we all conviniently choose to ignore it and the so-called church that is meant to mentor us in the understanding of the word is obviously to busy promoting the agenda of it's promoters to point out this obvious truths to us and let us grow in spirit the way it was taught in the bible.
To cut the long story short i have come to the realization with a renewed conviction that there is no church i am aware of today that is doing the will of our lord Jesus christ and the churches we have today are a marked departure from the churches founded by the apostles. That is apart from the fact that church buildings[temples] were done away with in the new testament. I know i would never be fully able to explain the reasons for my decision to people on this forum but i can asure you it is 100% biblical for now i would leave you guys with this write up with my brother TVO1 shared with me

Pastor AIO:

Where 2 or more are gathered in my name, I'll be there.

fellowship can happen anywhere were 2 likeminded people (ie 2 fellows) get together for a common cause.

solosimple:


My point exactly: Don't conclude that there are no assemblies that doing God's will, just agree that you are yet to find one (same as my case).

banom:

Who will then pay the tithes and to whom ?

Quote from: TV01
Temples built with hands, duh!
In John 4, the Lord encounters the woman by the well. In conversation The Lord at once disabuses her of her misunderstanding and at the same time gives her insight into Gods intention. (Worship of God would no longer be mandated to a to a place or location).
21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
The Lord prophesied the ending of temple worship
Matthew 24:1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." And that was immediately after he had cried out in lamentation. Matthew 23: 37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate;
Why was Stephen martyred?
Simply because he declared the system of temple worship redundant; Acts 7:48 However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says: 49 'Heaven is My throne, And earth is My footstool. What house will you build for Me? says the Lord, Or what is the place of My rest?……………
Acts 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. A post-conversion Saul (Paul) was later to echo these words to the Athenians. Acts 17:24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.
All the high traditions of church have been there. The beauty of some of the Catholic cathedrals is breathtaking. St. Peters Basilica in Rome may well move you to tears (http://www.ewtn.com/gallery/sp/sp1.htm), but God is not there. I have visited Anglican churches with frescos that would make you weep. But God is not there. Some traditional church buildings are architectural masterpieces, rightly listed as cultural heritage sites, but God is not there. So, converted light industrial units, re-cycled cinemas and multi-million building projects are all passé, they are religion. God is not there. Truth is, Jesus does not have a (physical) house!
Church is not something you go to, it’s not something you attend, church is something you are. Welcome to Gods Temple. Built with living stones (1 Peter 2:5). It’s transportable, reproducible, easily erected, adaptable, nimble and organic. IT’S ALIVE! Buildings, which are acquired at great cost and barely used, are redundant. The Bible says “Daily” (9 times in the book of Acts alone!), church is everyday in every place, where Gods people (Temple) are. The Church of England is flogging buildings hand over fist. And their own records show that majority use for most of the buildings that remain is for non-church activity. God is not there.
How many times? How plainly? And how blindingly obvious, could the Lord make this truth? ~ NO PHYSICAL BUILDINGS AND NO PHYSICAL OFFERINGS! (Physical sacrifice maybe, but who preaches that?) Resources that should be used to nourish the living temple of God are diverted into physical temples. Money moves in response to need in the body, or to the needy outside (a form of Christian love and witness) full stop.
Mindless temple building is the epitome of pagan worship. Almost all ancient religions had their temples, male/female high priesthoods, temple prostitutes, sacrifices, arcane rituals and a busy sideline in merchandise. A physical church (organization) will ultimately become a den of thieves and a habitation for unclean things. The only thing that awaits these carnal physical structures, along with the attendant man made traditions is desolation.
Matthew 21:12-13 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves. 13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
So when they say “we are trusting God for a building”, what they are really hoping is that they can wheedle enough money out of you to acquire one. At best they are misled and misleading, and at worst they are just religious hucksters, preying on peoples faith and ignorance. They are either blindly treading a well-worn religious path, or simply making merchandise of you in order to acquire an expensive backdrop for their vaulting ambition. It’s business (Industry – Entertainment, sector Religion, sub-sector Churchianity).
The plethora of functional titles, administrative hierarchies and reporting lines are reminiscent of corporate entities (which is essentially what they are. See if you can spot the multinationals, the franchises and the one-man businesses). There’s a spirit behind
this, manifested in hierarchies, departments, budgets, programs, schedules and such idolatrous concepts as of “my pastor”, “my church”, “my ministry”.
Take the dozen or more levels between the congregation and head of the Roman Catholic tradition for example. From the pope, cardinals, archbishops and bishops down to the “faithful” there exists something like fourteen different levels! You can call it what you please, but it’s a mediatory priesthood, just with a different name. If it walks like a duck and it quacks! All the other traditions have their equivalents.
The newer traditions do seem to have a penchant for bombast (probably explained by the fact that they lack the historical weight and theatrical wardrobe of the so called “high traditions”). Hence, the love of titles like “GO” (the ambitions of some would suggest that the “G” is for galactic!), “Covering Apostle”, “Prophetess to the Nations” and my personal favourite “Armour Bearer”. I guess cheap suits and bad (or just badly dyed) hair, will never acquire the “ecclesiastical chic” of an intricately embroidered mitre and robes.
Church traditions, denominations, sects, communions, synods (or just plain old “membership”) and the like mean nothing to God and have nothing to do with true Christianity. The bible clearly states that; “Christ knows those who are His” (2 Timothy 2:19). None of those things will make your calling and election sure. Hebrews 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect. The only membership that counts is being in the book of life of the Lamb! Whether one is spiritually mature enough to discern it or not, becoming a member, joining a sect, the various ordinations, sacraments and pledges all co-join you with spiritual harlotry (More on this in a later WIT).
Church is simply accessed by faith in Christ. The assembly comprises of all who through time, have placed their faith in the completeness of the Lord Jesus Christ’ saving work. And another thing, written constitutions, creeds and codes are an utter fallacy. Mission statements for Christians, as much as they exist are all to be found clearly stated in the Bible. Think about it, the only reason an addendum would be required is because it contains something not in the original document. So pray tell what’s missing?

Sisi Jinx:

Can't say I blame you. I've felt the same way for years now. Still attend church but I'm just going through the motions. I make myself feel better by pretending I am attending an inspirational/motivational seminar where the speaks throws every "Feel Good" cliche he can think of at his audience. . .and of course you gotta pay for services rendered  

debosky:

Dude there are many 'unscriptural' things going on today, but that is simply symptomatic of the fact that we haven't put on the full divine nature and still struggle with what we bring from our backgrounds before becoming Christians.

People have been splitting from churches since the church began on this premise, but how much has it really helped? Just give it a thought. You should do your part within the existing gatherings of believers, unless of course you are forced out. Going solo isn't really the solution in my view.

Luke 16:1-13 (New Living Translation)

Luke 16
Parable of the Shrewd Manage   Jesus told this story to his disciples:

“There was a certain rich man who had a manager handling his affairs. One day a report came that the manager was wasting his employer’s money. 2 So the employer called him in and said, ‘What’s this I hear about you? Get your report in order, because you are going to be fired.’

3 “The manager thought to himself, ‘Now what? My boss has fired me. I don’t have the strength to dig ditches, and I’m too proud to beg. 4 Ah, I know how to ensure that I’ll have plenty of friends who will give me a home when I am fired.’

5 “So he invited each person who owed money to his employer to come and discuss the situation. He asked the first one, ‘How much do you owe him?’ 6 The man replied, ‘I owe him 800 gallons of olive oil.’ So the manager told him, ‘Take the bill and quickly change it to 400 gallons.[a]’

7 “‘And how much do you owe my employer?’ he asked the next man. ‘I owe him 1,000 bushels of wheat,’ was the reply. ‘Here,’ the manager said, ‘take the bill and change it to 800 bushels.’

8 “The rich man had to admire the dishonest rascal for being so shrewd. And it is true that the children of this world are more shrewd in dealing with the world around them than are the children of the light. 9 Here’s the lesson: Use your worldly resources to benefit others and make friends. Then, when your earthly possessions are gone, they will welcome you to an eternal home.[c]

10 [b]“If you are faithful in little things, you will be faithful in large ones. But if you are dishonest in little things, you won’t be honest with greater responsibilities. 11 And if you are untrustworthy about worldly wealth, who will trust you with the true riches of heaven? 12 And if you are not faithful with other people’s things, why should you be trusted with things of your own?

13 “No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”

Matthew 6:21-36 (New Living Translation)

21 Wherever your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will also be.

22 “Your eye is a lamp that provides light for your body. When your eye is good, your whole body is filled with light. 23 But when your eye is bad, your whole body is filled with darkness. And if the light you think you have is actually darkness, how deep that darkness is!

24 “[size=18pt]No one can serve two masters. For you will hate one and love the other; you will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money[/size].

solosimple:



This is a good expository article on what the church of Christ is, I actually discovered this truth about two years ago. However, let me quickly point it to our attention to the fact that there's something called Christian fellowship/assemblies/gatherings/meetings (it is all over the book of Act of Apostles), Christian would always need a place to meet/fellowship/gather for xtian worships etc. Xtian in the early days weren't meeting in the sky or heaven for fellowship, Xtian activities has always been on planet earth: sometimes the gathering could be in a room, on a hose top, in a hall, on the field in the temple etc (Read through the book of Acts for clarification), The Epistles encourage the gathering  of believers from time to time, and for this to be possible there must be a meeting place. BUT the problem we have here is that alot of xtians have thrown away the essence and the focus of Xtian meetings. Much attention is being given to the man made buildings whereas "the true building (equipping the saints with the UNADULTERATED word of God" is neglected
Yes, all the buildings are of less relevance to God. More so, they all shall be brought down one day as the earth and all that it's in it must pass away. So our attention really should be on things that are of eternal value.

KunleOshob:

I agree with your submissions above in the fact that it is necessary for beleivers to gather together and fellowship. however what is going on in the churches today is a marked departure from what the apostles taught and practised. As i said i would still fellowship with beleivers but it would be hypocritical of me to continue attending churches that i believe their practises are contrary to the teachings in the bible. In the early church they shared and discussed the word every man was allowed to talk and ask questions it was a real fellowship but today you must just accept what the pastor says whether he is wrong or right you are not even allowed to ask questions or disagree with a pastor's doctrine. Also the early church always shared meals when they met but today our churches are only interested in collecting our money. the early church attended to the material needs of their brethen but today's churches cannot be bothered they would just tell you to go and pray whilst the church leadership spends the church's money on their own excesses. I can gone on and on but then,

Bolarge:

@KunleOshob

U really seem to be making progress in ur self designed but ultimately spiritually ill-fated trajectory.

I agree with your submissions above in the fact that it is necessary for beleivers to gather together and fellowship. however what is going on in the churches today is a marked departure from what the apostles taught and practised.

As i said i would still fellowship with beleivers but it would be hypocritical of me to continue attending churches that i believe their practises are contrary to the teachings in the bible.

In the early church they shared and discussed the word every man was allowed to talk and ask questions it was a real fellowship but today you must just accept what the pastor says whether he is wrong or right you are not even allowed to ask questions or disagree with a pastor's doctrine. Also the early church always shared meals when they met but today our churches are only interested in collecting our money. the early church attended to the material needs of their brethen but today's churches cannot be bothered they would just tell you to go and pray whilst the church leadership spends the church's money on their own excesses. I can gone on and on but then,

As i said i would still fellowship with beleivers but it would be hypocritical of me to continue attending churches that i believe their practises are contrary to the teachings in the bible.

JJYOU:



@ kunle,  on a day like this one is almost tempted to begin preaching but it does help cos i have always told you here there are loads of others standing in that country you cannot be the only christian but you hang around your santimonous self too long that you began to beleive your lies.  may God help you.  

we will not hang you over to the enemy becos you are a precious soul to God and His kingdom.  dont stay too long in the isolation ward you built for yourself because i can gaurantee you the devil will torment you so much you wont recognise kunle.   i hope you saved enough money and hope it is all worth it.

may God remember His mercy and show you His lighta and grace.  it is always beter not to have known the light than know and turn back

i thnk your people still sing that old song  "Jesu lonpe elese manbo,  , elese wa" sorry if i didnt get the words right but you get the drift.  Jesus is calling us all sinners to come to Him.
He is still calling you without money. i would rather have Jesus than any other thing.

OLAADEGBU:

@KunleOshob,

All these fellowships of where one or two people are gathered together in the name of Christ are the ones that grow to become the big churches that you detest.  To be part of the Church of Christ that was bought by the blood of the Lamb you have to be born into it, you don't just join the body of Christ but you get born into the family when you repent and receive Jesus as your personal Saviour and Lord.  This is what is called the spiritual birth experience that brings you into the family of God.  Being a member of the family of God you will want to fellowship with Bible believing Christians who take the Bible as the absolute and final authority in all matters of life.  [b]If you have problems believing the Bible as the inerrant and infallible word of God [/b]then you might just go and fellowship with like minded people who have similar philosophies as you do, and if the blind leads the blind guess where they will all end up.

KunleOshob:

I agree with your submissions above in the fact that it is necessary for beleivers to gather together and fellowship. however what is going on in the churches today is a marked departure from what the apostles taught and practised. As i said i would still fellowship with beleivers but it would be hypocritical of me to continue attending churches that i believe their practises are contrary to the teachings in the bible. In the early church they shared and discussed the word every man was allowed to talk and ask questions it was a real fellowship but today you must just accept what the pastor says whether he is wrong or right you are not even allowed to ask questions or disagree with a pastor's doctrine. Also the early church always shared meals when they met but today our churches are only interested in collecting our money. the early church attended to the material needs of their brethen but[b] today's churches cannot be bothered they would just tell you to go and pray whilst the church leadership spends the church's money on their own excesses.[/b] I can gone on and on but then,