dayokanu:

So do your weighing statistically and come up with a ranking which would retain madrid as first, and Man Utd as second as you posited earlier. ahead of Milan, Bayern, Barcelona and co

Why do you rate them ahead of Barcelona

I dont understand your post especially the bolded part, then you might want to state the criteria you are using for this rating.
I hope you wont include finest Jersey, Fan base, Biggest stadium, popularity, youngest players

I corrected the previous post.

My ranking was
1. Madrid
2. Milan
3. ManU
4. Bayern
5. Barelona
6. Liverpool
7. Ajax

The question was who was the biggest club and not simply who was the most successful in europe.
I considered success at both domestic and european levels, honors, popularity, history and pedigree, value, revenue, star players, player attraction etc.
Outside of european success, I think ManU is tied or has a leg up on any opf the other clubs you mentioned.

Of course you are free to come up with your own metrics.

I considered success at both domestic and european levels,

Bayern Munich Local league 21 DFB Pokal(FA cup) 14 CL -4
Barcelona Local league 19 Cope dey rey 25 CL 3
manchester Local league 18 FA cup 11 CL 3

So You can rate them based on this

honors,
I dont know how you want to define honours

popularity

-
I dont know the quantitative measure of this Maybe you can help with stats,

history and pedigree

-

Bayern and barcelona obviously floors Man Utd in this regards,
Bayern apart from winning 4 CL have lost in 3 finals Barcelona have lost

value, revenue, - Forbes Man Utd wins this category

star players- The caliber of players who have dorn Bayern and Barcelona colours can never be compared to Man Utd

Bayern Franz Beckenbauer, Paul Breitner, Uli Hoeness, Sepp Maier (GK) Gerd Müller (FW), Matthaus, Oliver Kahn, jean pierre papin.

Barcelona. Romario, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Lionel Messi, Hristo Stoichkov, Gheorge Hagi, Ronald Koeman

manchester: Bobby charlton, george best, Dennis Law, Cristiano Ronaldo, David Beckham, Eric Cantona

, player attraction etc.

Barcelona leads this hands down between Bayern and man Utd I dont know think any of them has attracted a BIG player The closest were Ballack in 2002 and Veron.

My Rankings

Fc Barcelona














The rest of Europe

Biina,
I am waiting for your reply about the metrics you brought up and quantify it in a way that would support your assertion that Man Utd is 3rd in Europe

dayokanu:

Biina,
I am waiting for your reply about the metrics you brought up and quantify it in a way that would support your assertion that Man Utd is 3rd in Europe

Am not sure what you want me to do, as we obviously put different weights on different things. The drag on about how much importance to put on which UCL title was tiring enough, that I am less interested in comparing league titles, when they are won, and what the strength of the league was. Nor am I interested in the Ballon d'or count argument that you were having with Sauron over which club had the more star players.

I told you the factors I considered and what my outcome was. You obviously feel differently and have posted your own list. I don't see the point in wasting time on the issue as I doubt we would come to an agreeable list.

timmfikk:

Passing by Don't need to argue every one know MADRID remains the best,

Enlgish League is no where to be recognized in the first 3 league of the world, due to the lack of discipline and many more, dont need any fucking argue sha.

Jesus Wept!!!!

The question was who was the biggest club and not simply who was the most successful in europe.
I considered [b]success at both domestic and european levels, honors, popularity, history and pedigree, value, revenue, star players, player attraction [/b]etc.
Outside of european success, I think ManU is tied or has a leg up on any opf the other clubs you mentioned.

You posted this as your metrics and the stats I brought forth does not agree with your conclusion. If you did you ratings based on the criteria you listed there is no way in Hell Man Utd would be third above Bayern or Barcelona

dayokanu:

Barcelona leads this hands down between Bayern and man Utd I dont know think any of them has attracted a BIG player The closest were Ballack in 2002 and Veron.

What would you call Christiano Ronaldo (current World & European Footballer of the Year?)

@Debo,
Man Utd did not ATTRACT Cr7 as a big player he was developed there.

I considered success at both domestic and european levels

Bayern Munich Local league 21 DFB Pokal(FA cup) 14 CL -4
Barcelona Local league 19 Cope dey rey 25 CL 3
manchester Local league 18 FA cup 11 CL 3

history and pedigree
Bayern apart from winning 4 CL have lost in 3 finals

star players

Bayern: Franz Beckenbauer, Paul Breitner, Uli Hoeness, Sepp Maier (GK) Gerd Müller (FW), Matthaus, Oliver Kahn, jean pierre papin.

Barcelona: Romario, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Lionel Messi, Hristo Stoichkov, Gheorge Hagi, Ronald Koeman

Manchester: Bobby charlton, george best, Dennis Law, Cristiano Ronaldo, David Beckham, Eric Cantona

value, revenue

Man Utd wins

player attraction etc.

Barcelona leads this hands down between Bayern and man Utd I dont know think any of them has attracted a BIG player The closest were Ballack in 2002 and Veron 2001.

I am interested in how your criteria makes Man Utd 3rd in Europe

dayokanu:

You posted this as your metrics and the stats I brought forth does not agree with your conclusion. If you did you ratings based on the criteria you listed there is no way in Hell Man Utd would be third above Bayern or Barcelona

Man Utd whups Barcelona and Bayern Munich as far as fanbase, global brand, success off/on pitch and fuckever indices u might take into consideration.
Comparing the league success of Bayern to Man Utd is a tad folly. Nobody rates the German league.
It's like saying Celtic is bigger than Arsenal/Chelsea because they have won 42 league titles(who cares??)

How many players have Bayern Munich attracted? NIL!!!!
U talk about the players in Barcelona. . . . . .I will be bold to say it is because South Americans feel more at home in Spain than anywhere else.
It has nothing to do with the magnitude of Barcelona or Real Madrid.
South Americans will rather play in Osasuna or Valencia than Man Utd because of their tradition and most especially the language.

dayokanu:

You posted this as your metrics and the stats I brought forth does not agree with your conclusion. If you did you ratings based on the criteria you listed there is no way in Hell Man Utd would be third above Bayern or Barcelona

and therein lies the problem. You are convinced that ManU should not be third and thus no matter which metric I use, you will either try to interpret differently such that ManU is not third, or discard the metric in its entirety.

I provided my list, you are free to use your own metric and come up with your own rankings.

Tell us about the success on the field which is the real basis for assessing football clubs and how Man Utd beats Barcelona and Bayern in this.

Bayern attracted Jean Pierre Papin, Klinsman and Ballack. Aside Veron which big player.

Biina Using the same metric you brought forth Man Utd still does nt stand at 3rd unless there is an X factor you did not mention

dayokanu:

Tell us about the success on the field which is the real basis for assessing football clubs and how Man Utd beats Barcelona and Bayern in this.

It's a combination of many factors. . . . .United have had to challenge 3 BIG clubs in England season after season while Bayern have no real challenger in the Bundesliga and Barcelona's only rival in La Liga is Real Madrid.
It is very difficult to win the EPL than the La Liga or the Bundesliga(this is why UEFA don't even rate Bundesliga).
If you doubt this, ask Rafa Benitez and Arsene Wenger!!!

Bayern attracted Jean Pierre Papin, Klinsman and Ballack. Aside Veron which big player.

Man Utd attracted Fabien Barthez, Peter Schmeichel, Wayne Rooney, Jaap Stam and Ruud Van Nistelrooy.

dayokanu:

Tell us about the success on the field which is the real basis for assessing football clubs and how Man Utd beats Barcelona and Bayern in this.

Bayern attracted Jean Pierre Papin, Klinsman and Ballack. Aside Veron which big player.

Biina Using the same metric you brought forth Man Utd still does nt stand at 3rd unless there is an X factor you did not mention

To give you an example of what the discussion would be like and why it is point less

1. Papin was acquired in 1994 at the age of 31yrs, from mIlan for GBP 2.1M. Milan had bought him from Marseille for GBP 6-10M and he had failed to live up to expectation failing to break into the first team. he spent the star years at Marseille and was not the major star you portray him to be when he joined Bayern.

2. Similarly, Klinsmann joined Bayern in 1995 at the age of 31 from tottenham. He was on a downturn in his career and was not the star player you make him out to be.

That leaves Ballack on your list as the palyer that was signed by bayern as a star when he was desired by many.

But I am almost sure you will disagree with my above analysis and thus it is a futile exercise.

As to domestic success which is simply the league IMO (like UCL is european success), one should consider the strength of the opposition, and I would put FA cups along with other titles like UEFA cup, intercontinental cup, super cup, and any other trophies under honors.

ManU have won 18 league titles (6 in the last 10 yrs, 10 in the last 15, and 11/20), all has the English league has risen to prominence based on their performance in Europe (as refelected in the UEFA league coeeficient).

Bayern has won 21 league titles (5/10, 8/15, 10/20), but the german league has been declining in strength of recent.

Barca has won 18 league titles (3/10,  6/15, 9/20) while the spanish league has remained in the top three for the better part of the decade

For me ManU is currently the more successful of the clubs, but then again, you would likely disagree.

biina:

That leaves Ballack on your list as the palyer that was signed by bayern as a star when he was desired by many.
But I am almost sure you will disagree with my above analysis and thus it is a futile exercise.

How can he disagree when the same Papin only copped ONLY 27 league appearances in 2 SEASONS with Bayern Munich??

~Sauron~:

It's a combination of many factors. . . . .United have had to challenge 3 BIG clubs in England season after season while Bayern have no real challenger in the Bundesliga and Barcelona's only rival in La Liga is Real Madrid.
It is very difficult to win the EPL than the La Liga or the Bundesliga(this is why UEFA don't even rate Bundesliga).
If you doubt this, ask Rafa Benitez and Arsene Wenger!!!

Year-----------1st place----------Runners up---------------------3rd plce
1993-94 FC Barcelona-----Deportivo de La Coruña--------Real Zaragoza
1994-95 Real Madrid Deportivo de La Coruña-----------Real Betis
1995-96 Atlético Madrid----Valencia CF--------------------FC Barcelona
1996-97 Real Madrid--------FC Barcelona-------------Deportivo de La Coruña
1997-98 FC Barcelona----Athletic Bilbao ----------------Real Sociedad
1998-99 FC Barcelona-------Real Madrid ----------------Real Mallorca
1999-00 Deportivo LC------FC Barcelona---------------Valencia CF
2000-01 Real Madrid-----Deportivo LC----------------Real Mallorca
2001-02 Valencia CF----Deportivo LC------------------Real Madrid
2002-03 Real Madrid-----Real Sociedad------------Deportivo LC
2003-04 Valencia CF-----FC Barcelona---------Deportivo de La Coruña
2004-05 FC Barcelona----Real Madrid----------------Villarreal CF
2005-06 FC Barcelona---Real Madrid---------------Valencia CF
2006-07 Real Madrid----FC Barcelona--------------Sevilla FC
2007-08 Real Madrid---Villarreal CF---------------FC Barcelona
2008-09 FC Barcelona---Real Madrid---------------Sevilla FC


In the last 16 seasons, only 6 times have Barca and Madrid held the 1st 2 spots. Sauron, u need to stop regurgitating what u hear from drunken Brits in ghetto pubs.

As far as Global brand name recognition, u need to stop repeating what u read on ur club website and what EPL commentators tell u. Man U is up there but they don't dwarf the other big clubs. Apart from Asia where u guys had a head start as per aggressive marketing, Liverpool sef is as big a brand as Man U.

Real Madrid is the most recognized brand in football.

Krayola:

In the last 16 seasons, only 6 times have Barca and Madrid held the 1st 2 spots. Sauron, u need to stop regurgitating what u hear from drunken Brits in ghetto pubs.

Stop talking like a stark illiterate!!! How many of em clubs in La Liga are relevant in Europe?
How many of em have finished as semifinalists in the UCL in the past 5 seasons?
La Liga is about 2 teams, Barca and Real Madrid!!!! The capitulation of Barca guarantees a league victory for Madrid and vice versa.

As far as Global brand name recognition, u need to stop repeating what u read on ur club website and what EPL commentators tell u. Man U is up there but they don't dwarf the other big clubs. Apart from Asia where u guys had a head start as per aggressive marketing, Liverpool sef is as big a brand as Man U.

Tell me anywhere in the world United are not known.
The Asian market is the largest cos China alone has over a billion population(17 times that of the whole UK)!!!
Nobody watches La Liga in Asia. . . . . .The late kick-off of La Liga games has made the league unpopular in that part of the world.
This isn't what i read in ma club website. . . . .There are 330 million registered United fans worldwide(Naija fans account for 13 million) so don't even go there.

Real Madrid is the most recognized brand in football. 

I laugh in Swahili.

P.S. . . . . . . . .Are u ready for another can of ass-whipping??
Ronaldo is rearing to put 4 past Valdes.

The thing with debating u, sauron . .is that u care little for making sense. It's cool when i'm bored and feel like shootin the shit online . .but u just talk such crap sometimes, that it makes me wonder what type of floor u were dropped on as a child.

~Sauron~:

Stop talking like a stark illiterate!!! How many of em clubs in La Liga are relevant in Europe?
How many of em have finished as semifinalists in the UCL in the past 5 seasons?
La Liga is about 2 teams, Barca and Real Madrid!!!! The capitulation of Barca guarantees a league victory for Madrid and vice versa.

~Sauron~:

It's a combination of many factors. . . . .United have had to challenge 3 BIG clubs in England season after season while Bayern have no real challenger in the Bundesliga and Barcelona's only rival in La Liga is Real Madrid.
It is very difficult to win the EPL than the La Liga or the Bundesliga(this is why UEFA don't even rate Bundesliga).
If you doubt this, ask Rafa Benitez and Arsene Wenger!!!

Where the hell did u say the word Europe in that post? U talk shit, u get called on it and presented with facts that illustrate ur cluelessness, but u just turn around and spew more nonsense. I tire O. When will u ever say "oh . .I was mistaken. . thanks for the correction". That makes u more of a man.

Remember when I messed up on how long Vela has been an Arsenal player and I think A-40 pointed it out to me, I learned what I didn't know and am better for it. U go just dey do strong head. Muruus!!

~Sauron~:

Tell me anywhere in the world United are not known.
The Asian market is the largest cos China alone has over a billion population(17 times that of the whole UK)!!!
Nobody watches La Liga in Asia. . . . . .The late kick-off of La Liga games has made the league unpopular in that part of the world.
This isn't what i read in ma club website. . . . .There are 330 million registered United fans worldwide(Naija fans account for 13 million) so don't even go there.

U know very little about other clubs and ur comments show it. Real Madrid is a legendary team. Their fame is unrivaled. They have dominated Europe for so long, playing fantasy type football with the biggest names in the game. That is what their fame is based on. . Not just marketing.

Make i come give u beatin for fifa . . are u online?

Krayola:

The thing with debating u, sauron . .is that u care little for making sense. It's cool when i'm bored and feel like shootin the shit online . .but u just talk such crap sometimes, that it makes me wonder what type of floor u were dropped on as a child.

Krayola:

The thing with debating u, sauron . .is that u care little for making sense. It's cool when i'm bored and feel like shootin the shit online . .but u just talk such crap sometimes, that it makes me wonder what type of floor u were dropped on as a child.

I was dropped on marble floor(don't compare me to the mud-floor you were dropped).
How can u write so much and make no sense? The Dead Poets Society would turn in their graves with the minute amount of sense you spew.

Where the hell did u say the word Europe in that post? U talk shit, u get called on it and presented with facts that illustrate ur cluelessness, but u just turn around and spew more nonsense. I tire O. When will u ever say "oh . .I was mistaken. . thanks for the correction". That makes u more of a man.

What is this ninny talking about?
We are talking about how relevant the other clubs in La Liga are compared to United's MAIN rivals in the Premiership.
Only a complete slowpoke would compare Chelsea and Arsenal to Villareal and Valencia.

What i am pointing out to you is simple. . . . . .A massive collapse of Liverpool in the EPL does not guarantee a league title for Man Utd.
Ferguson would still have to worry about Arsenal and Chelsea. In La Liga, once Barcelona presses the self-destruct button, Real Madrid know the job is 50% easier. U cannot compare what Ferguson has had to deal with in the past 3 seasons to Real Madrid/Barcelona in the same period.
The top 4 in England are arguably in the best 6 in Europe(u cannot deny that).

Remember when I messed up on how long Vela has been an Arsenal player and I think A-40 pointed it out to me, I learned what I didn't know and am better for it. U go just dey do strong head. Muruus!!

This is irrelevant to this discussion.
I don't care about your Vela goofs. All i am saying is winning the EPL is harder than winning La Liga.

U know very little about other clubs and ur comments show it. Real Madrid is a legendary team. Their fame is unrivaled. They have dominated Europe for so long, playing fantasy type football with the biggest names in the game. That is what their fame is based on. . Not just marketing.

There's nothing legendary about a team who hasn't played UCL semi-finals in about 6 seasons.
History favours them as much as it favours Man Utd.
Trophies favour em as much as they favour Man Utd.
United whups em in fan base and marketing plus the global appeal factor.

Make i come give u beatin for fifa . . are u online?

U make me laugh.
We played 4 games. . . . . .I won THREE and lost ONE.
U couldn't cope ma attacks with Berbatov and Ronaldo running circles round Abidal and Puyol.
Messi stayed inside Evra's pocket all night and you are talking about BEATING.

Nor make me vex o.

~Sauron~:

I was dropped on marble floor(don't compare me to the mud-floor you were dropped).
How can u write so much and make no sense? The Dead Poets Society would turn in their graves with the minute amount of sense you spew.

What is this ninny talking about?
We are talking about how relevant the other clubs in La Liga are compared to United's MAIN rivals in the Premiership.
Only a complete slowpoke would compare Chelsea and Arsenal to Villareal and Valencia.

What i am pointing out to you is simple. . . . . .A massive collapse of Liverpool in the EPL does not guarantee a league title for Man Utd.
Ferguson would still have to worry about Arsenal and Chelsea. In La Liga, once Barcelona presses the self-destruct button, Real Madrid know the job is 50% easier. U cannot compare what Ferguson has had to deal with in the past 3 seasons to Real Madrid/Barcelona in the same period.
The top 4 in England are arguably in the best 6 in Europe(u cannot deny that).

This is irrelevant to this discussion.
I don't care about your Vela goofs. All i am saying is winning the EPL is harder than winning La Liga.

There's nothing legendary about a team who hasn't played UCL semi-finals in about 6 seasons.
History favours them as much as it favours Man Utd.
Trophies favour em as much as they favour Man Utd.
United whups em in fan base and marketing plus the global appeal factor.

This man. . .na everybody for here go school . . this one wey u just like to dey blow grammar for urself.

You hardly ever make sense, Sauron. You're comic relief, at best.

~Sauron~:

U make me laugh.
We played 4 games. . . . . .I won THREE and lost ONE.
U couldn't cope ma attacks with Berbatov and Ronaldo running circles round Abidal and Puyol.
Messi stayed inside Evra's pocket all night and you are talking about BEATING.

Nor make me vex o.

wtf are u talking about? I had owned the game for about half an hour.

Krayola:

This man. . .na everybody for here go school . . this one wey u just like to dey blow grammar for urself.
You hardly ever make sense, Sauron. You're comic relief, at best.

This is a coward's comment. . . . . .
The quality of opposition gunning for the EPL title is better than the one in Spain.
Even a numbskull knows that.

wtf are u talking about? I had owned the game for about half an hour.

What a ridiculous excuse.

The same controls on FIFA 04 still apply to FIFA 09.
Unless u have never played FIFA series before now, this excuse holds no water.

~Sauron~:

The quality of opposition gunning for the EPL title is better than the one in Spain.

I never entered into a debate about that with you. I think that is nonsense, but that was never what this is about. You are, as usual, trying to steer the conversation in a different direction to cover up ur idiocy. You said some dumb shit, u got called on it . . end of story!!

~Sauron~:

The same controls on FIFA 04 still apply to FIFA 09.
Unless u have never played FIFA series before now, this excuse holds no water.

storee . .Go ask about me make dem tell u . I be shampion for my area

Krayola:

I never entered into a debate about that with you. I think that is nonsense, but that was never what this is about. You are, as usual, trying to steer the conversation in a different direction to cover up ur idiocy. You said some dumb shit, u got called on it . . end of story!!

As usual, your brain processes information slowly.
The argument was about the title hauls Madrid and Milan have garnered in their history and i am saying that wouldn't give a true picture cos the quality of opposition varies from league to league. . . . .How is that dumb?
United play 6 GRAND SLAM games every season in the Premiership while Barca/Real Madrid play just TWO.

storee . .Go ask about me make dem tell u . I be shampion for my area

Champion me ass. . . . . . .Ma little nephew would take u apart.

Wether u played half club o or u played 10 strong clubs in your league is not the issue here, Wether u won all ur trophies now oo or u won it 1900, that na your story, every era comes with its own challenges. When madrid dominated europe and the world, they played against clubs of their own set, it wasn't like madrid fell from the sky or like madrid had all the zidanes, rauls, ruuds teleported into the 50's, they obviously used the players that were present then to win all these trophies, so I find it disturbing when people say Shit about their trophies not counting. All I care to say is that the end justifies the means, as long as u have the trophy in your shelve, you remain the winner, so my rating is this
Madrid
Ac milan
Liverpool
Bayern munich
Ajax
Barcelona
Man utd.

They all compete in europe, so whatever that brings them to compete with eachother should be the yardstick of rating which is the champions league.

If you want to add league titles and cups, then barcelona comes before liverpoolol and Ajax

honeric01:

Wether u played half club o or u played 10 strong clubs in your league is not the issue here, Wether u won all ur trophies now oo or u won it 1900, that na your story, every era comes with its own challenges. When madrid dominated europe and the world, they played against clubs of their own set, it wasn't like madrid fell from the sky or like madrid had all the zidanes, rauls, ruuds teleported into the 50's, they obviously used the players that were present then to win all these trophies, so I find it disturbing when people say Shit about their trophies not counting. All I care to say is that the end justifies the means, as long as u have the trophy in your shelve, you remain the winner, so my rating is this
Madrid
Ac milan
Liverpool
Bayern munich
Ajax
Barcelona
Man utd.

They all compete in europe, so whatever that brings them to compete with eachother should be the yardstick of rating which is the champions league.

If you want to add league titles and cups, then barcelona comes before liverpoolol and Ajax

correct!!!

Sauron, Man Utd can't just come and be trying to use media hype and marketing to claim glory. They have to earn it on the field, over time. You guys are headed in the right direction, but you still have a long way to go to catch up with the great clubs in European football.

Man Utd attracted Fabien Barthez, Peter Schmeichel, Wayne Rooney, Jaap Stam and Ruud Van Nistelrooy.

Bayern attracted Lucatoni, Miro Klose, Franck Ribery, Roy Makaay, Lucio

2. Similarly, Klinsmann joined Bayern in 1995 at the age of 31 from tottenham. He was on a downturn in his career and was not the star player you make him out to be.

The age a player joins does not matter. Figo and Zidane joined Madrid about 30 years old and to say Juergen Klinsman was not a star player is completely ridiculous He was placed 2nd in the Ballon D'or of 1995 and you mean he is not a star player i made him to be?

As to your argument about domestic leagues yes they are not of equal strenght thats why I would use the CL as the sole basis for rating.

If you go to South America Man Utd would not feature among the clubs being discussed there.

Man Utd being popular among Chinese and in places where football is not developed is B-S to me.

The main continents that are great in football Europe and South America where does Man Utd rate?
Its like measuring the popularity of footballers among teenage girls as a basis to judge the better footballer.
Left to teenage girls Beckham is greater than Maradona, Pele Zidane and Ronaldo joined together.

Thank you HONERIC. Thats the one argument that makes sense.
All these clubs were in existence in the 50's so why did they not win.

If local leagues are not of equal strenght then come to the CL to prove yourself Clubs like Celtic have not done that.

dayokanu:

Bayern attracted Luca toni, Miro Klose, Franck Ribery, Roy Makaay, Lucio

Except for Ribery (and possibly luca toni when he was signed), I dont see the stars in the rest.

The age a player joins does not matter. Figo and Zidane joined Madrid about 30 years old and to say Juergen Klinsman was not a star player is completely ridiculous He was placed 2nd in the Ballon D'or of 1995 and you mean he is not a star player i made him to be?

Cannavaro won the FIFA world player at 33, and I guess that makes him a star signing for madrid, even though his best years were well beyond him, being spent at parma and juventus.
Figo joined madrid in 2000 at the age of 28, while Zidane joined 2001 at the age of 29. Both were closer to the average peak age of a outfield players (about 28yrs) than klinsmann was at 31yrs.
Yet at 31, Zidane and Figo were every much the player that Klinsmann could never be (even at his prime).
If you feel at 31, a klinsmann that was looking to wind down his career at his local league was a star signing, then Blanc must have been a galactico when he signed for ManU.
Ironically, your star signing retired 4 seasons later back at tottenham. I guess he wanted to quit while he was still at the top

 
As to your argument about domestic leagues yes they are not of equal strenght thats why I would use the CL as the sole basis for rating.

If you go to South America Man Utd would not feature among the clubs being discussed there.

Man Utd being popular among Chinese and in places where football is not developed is B-S to me.

The main continents that are great in football Europe and South America where does Man Utd rate?
Its like measuring the popularity of footballers among teenage girls as a basis to judge the better footballer.
Left to teenage girls Beckham is greater than Maradona, Pele Zidane and Ronaldo joined together.

The debate is not about which is club has the stronger team, but about which is the biggest.
For me the popularity of a club (be it to a bald headed Tibetan monk or with the Baniwa tribe of the Amazon) counts towards an evaluation of it as a big club. The farther your reputation precedes you, the bigger the club you are. 
Or do you think academic strength is the only criterion for deciding top schools, or only mechanical efficiency is used in determining top auto makers?
There is a reason why an E-class is more valuable than a Camry, and believe me, it is not the fuel efficiency.

Krayola:

Sauron, Man Utd can't just come and be trying to use media hype and marketing to claim glory. They have to earn it on the field, over time. You guys are headed in the right direction, but you still have a long way to go to catch up with the great clubs in European football.

Of course, i expect any ABU to spew what honeric01 has just hurled out up there.
It is obvious he is not intelligent enough to understand what this argument is all about.
Anyone that says Liverpool, Bayern Munich and Ajax are BIGGER than Man Utd needs to have his brain scanned for tumours.

dayokanu:

Bayern attracted Lucatoni, Miro Klose, Franck Ribery, Roy Makaay, Lucio

None of the serial wankers in this list have the same profile Wayne Rooney had just before Man Utd signed him in 2004.
Rooney was the hottest property in the summer of 2004 after his exploits in Portugal.
Who the crap is Luca Toni or Klose compared to Wazza?

The age a player joins does not matter. Figo and Zidane joined Madrid about 30 years old and to say Juergen Klinsman was not a star player is completely ridiculous He was placed 2nd in the Ballon D'or of 1995 and you mean he is not a star player i made him to be?

The age a player joins does matter. . . . . . .Can we say Chelsea is bigger than Man Utd because a certain George Weah once played for em?
Do u reason with your rusty toe-nails?

As to your argument about domestic leagues yes they are not of equal strenght thats why I would use the CL as the sole basis for rating.

And if we use CL as the sole basis, United have won it TWICE to Bayern Munich's ONCE.
CL cannot even be the only yardstick. . . . .other things apply.
The worth of the club, the global appeal, the fan base, the marketing side of business and other miscellaneous.

If you go to South America Man Utd would not feature among the clubs being discussed there.
Man Utd being popular among Chinese and in places where football is not developed is B-S to me.

United are even more popular than Real Madrid in South America due to Nike's strong-hold in that continent.
Nike gives out Man Utd shirts to players who are under Nike contracts to wear.
That was why Carlos TEVEZ wore a Man Utd T-shirt to a press conference when he was still contracted to Corinthians in Brazil.

The main continents that are great in football Europe and South America where does Man Utd rate?
Its like measuring the popularity of footballers among teenage girls as a basis to judge the better footballer.
Left to teenage girls Beckham is greater than Maradona, Pele Zidane and Ronaldo joined together.

In Europe, Barcelona and United are tied at number one.
In America, United are undoubtedly number one.
In Asia, United are number one.
In Africa, Arsenal + Barcelona + Real Madrid.
In South America, Barecelona + Arsenal + Man Utd + Real Madrid.

@ Sauron. .Adidas owns south America, plus, they are the biggest name in football apparel, not Nike. Nike run sports apparel overall, but adidas owns football. They research/design/make everything, from the official balls, to the hi-tec boots. . They are the pioneers. Nike is a marketing company. . .they technically don't make anything, they just give out contracts to sweat shops all over the place.

Krayola:

@ Sauron. .Adidas owns south America, plus, they are the biggest name in football apparel, not Nike. Nike run sports apparel overall, but adidas owns football. They research/design/make everything, from the official balls, to the hi-tec boots. . They are the pioneers. Nike is a marketing company. . .they  technically don't make anything, they just give out contracts to sweat shops all over the place.

U must be smoking woolies.
Nike have a strong hold in South America as they sponsor the biggest South American clubs like Boca Juniors and Corinthians.
They also have individual contracts with certain players. . . . . . . .
Are u aware Cristiano Ronaldo would still be wearing his nike boots on Real Madrid's adidas shirts?