BascoVanVeli:


South Africa does not have the quality of players to compete with the big dogs. They mostly have to wait on an off year to strike. All credit to the sundowns but both their key players(Billiat, Oyango) are not South African. Also Senegal got cheated in South Africa and I can't see them even competing with this team. Senegal held Algeria with their team B, I don't see much hype in that.

If you watched the game, SA actually out played Senegal. The penalty call was wrong but based on the ball of play SA were very impressive. Senegal started pressuring just 10mins to full time when after they got 1 goal.

SA were also cheated in Burkina Faso. The referee gave Burkina Faso two controversial penalties in stoppage time before they could tie the game. They missed the first one.

BascoVanVeli:


The Afcon proves who is the best but if we must include Nigeria here is my top 5 list.

1. Senegal
2. Nigeria
3. Ghana
4. DR Congo
5. Tunisia

Are you saying that countries like Guinea-Bissau, Togo and Zimbabwe are better than Nigeria? That's why I said general assessment. Eg Algeria and Ivory Coast are out of the AFCON but they remain on my top 10 list.

And it is not an issue "we must include Nigeria". AFCON or no AFCON Nigeria remains a power house in African football. We are assessing the teams based on their capability and strength. Eg forget that Algeria and Ivory are out of the AFCON they are still teams to be feared as far as African football in concerned.

BascoVanVeli:


I still think they could beat Egypt. That group was not easy at all, they are a younger team but if u watched them u can't deny their talent.

The only promising player I saw there was Franck Kessie. Even though he struggled due to big tournament experience.
The other lot were just average. Kalou had a good tournament, I think.

Icon4s:


How can you replace Nigeria for Mali? What has Mali achieved in the last 15 years or even in the last 3years? They don't have the kind of quality we have. Sentiments aside Nigeria is in top 5 in Africa.

You claim for us to be top 5 and yet we could not make it to the Nation's cup Going through my comment you would realise that i said we have players on the rise but we are still building a team. For now we are no there yet and I will not deceive myself but wait patiently for our time. For me this is our time to build so saying we are top 5 for me is premature, I don't live on past glory, but would rather face the present and hope for the future. If you were talking of the super falcons then I would agree but for the super eagles, I would not ready them top 5 yet. We can start by qualifying for the world cup first

goldfish80:

My list compilation was in no particular order. Sorry I dint point that out.

I think South Africa have made some giant strides in the past few years. They deserve to be in company of Africa's best teams.
Their team is relatively young and I see an upward trajectory going by the standard of their league which is being reflected in the Caf champions league. If Countries like Zambia, Zimbabwe, Uganda owe their recent improvements to the PSL, how about South Africa themselves who owns the league?

I watched SA play against Burkina in Ouagadougou, they should have won that gave if not for the dubious penalty call in stoppage time. Against Senegal, they dominated the Teranga lions for long periods. Let's forget about the controversial referee call in their favour but based on the balance of play, they deserved the win.

I deliberately left out Maroc because they haven't done anything worthy of note in football at any level for the past 10 yrs. Absolutely nothing. Even down to their clubsides. They aren't just there yet, infact I would rather have Cape Verde than Morocco. Technically the Cape verdians have been more successful than Morocco over the past few years,they were ranked inside the top 30 just last year.
A fluke win against a fledgling Ivorian side counts as nothing after all these years, in my opinion.

South Africa. A country that would bring their 'A' game when they face a very strong opposition. But you find them crumbling when they play teams like Mauritania, Sierra-Leone or Gambia.

Morocco may not have done anything worthy of note in the last 10 years, just also like Algeria, Senegal, DR Congo, Mali and the likes. But if you are a very keen follower of African football, which I know you are, you will know what Morocco are capable of.

Icon4s:


Are you saying that countries like Guinea-Bissau, Togo and Zimbabwe are better than Nigeria? That's why I said general assessment. Eg Algeria and Ivory Coast are out of the AFCON but they remain on my top 10 list.

And it is not an issue "we must include Nigeria". AFCON or no AFCON Nigeria remains a power house in African football. We are assessing the teams based on their capability and strength. Eg forget that Algeria and Ivory are out of the AFCON they are still teams to be feared as far as African football in concerned.

It is just like not making the champions league and you want to claim that you are one of Europe's best, I did not say win but at least participate, let's stop this idea that we are there but instead pray we keep improving, we have missed two consecutive nation's cup and you still want to rate us as top five Time has a way of sorting things out

Lazyerudite:

You claim for us to be top 5 and yet we could not make it to the Nation's cup Going through my comment you would realise that i said we have players on the rise but we are still building a team. For now we are no there yet and I will not deceive myself but wait patiently for our time. For me this is our time to build so saying we are top 5 for me is premature, I don't live on past glory, but would rather face the present and hope for the future. If you were talking of the super falcons then I would agree but for the super eagles, I would not ready them top 5 yet. We can start by qualifying for the world cup first

I am talking about the present. If it was this time last year (the past) I may not have put Nigeria in top 10.

Are you undermining the quality that the Super Eagles has presently. The future is here and You are still talking about the future.

Put the Current Senegalese, Algerian, Ivorian and Nigerian teams side by side and tell me we are not at par.

Lazyerudite:

It is just like not making the champions league and you want to claim that you are one of Europe's best, I did not say win but at least participate, let's stop this idea that we are there but instead pray we keep improving, we have missed two consecutive nation's cup and you still want to rate us as top five Time has a way of sorting things out

I am sure Algeria will make your top 5.

But did we not beat them 3-1 in Uyo?

I am sure you know why Nigeria didn't make this AFCON.

terzurum5:

Sure.
You must have saved yourself and many other paesonalities here the stress of engaging in energy sarping debates which could have spanned pages of threads
TheGoodJoe should be nodding his head somewhere by now.

TheGoodJoe, you can now bring down your raised foot.

Nobody was saying some of these players should never be invited. The debate/search for a credible RB became strongest after the Zambia game in Ndola.

Forgiveness in particular and not even the TheGoodJoe was the one who started the call for Brian Idowu's inclusion as we were preparing to face Algeria. I was one of those that kicked against his inclusion for that game that it may affect the balance of that defense. Playing a debutant in a game of that magnitude was not the ideal. I personally recommended Omeruo for that RB position as he had played that position on one or two occasions for the Super Eagles and also at his first club in Holland.

We however all pointed out that after the Algeria game there would be room for friendlies and we can experiment with those new players. And so it is now. This is the right time to play Brian Idowu. So this is good news.

One thing I observed from the current coaching crew is they minimize risks as much as possible. They only play tested players in very crucial games.

Icon4s:


I am sure Algeria will make your top 5.

But did we not beat them 3-1 in Uyo?

I am sure you know why Nigeria didn't make this AFCON.

Again you have missed my point, you defeated Algeria wan Zambia which is by no means a small feat but don't let us get carried away, we have missed two nations cup consecutively and u still think we are top dog presently, players don't win competitions, teams do. We have players but we are still building a team. Don't get carried away by those victories, we have a tougher opponent in Cameroon who usually have their way with us. As I said I am hoping our progress will continue, even this team on the rise in yet to come back from being a goal or two down. With time they will blend and be formidable, we are even still searching for fullbacks ooo. Me, I will be patient. Top 5? No, can we get there, definitely

goldfish80:

If a team of 22 players have just 2 key players who aren't natives, then am impressed.

add Laffour and Castro. The only South Africans that played a major role were Keegan Dolly and Percy Tau (whom i feel to be SA's best players at the moment). The big goals against Zamalek came from Laffour. Billiat scored them their all important goal in Zambia against Zesco. Onyango was a rock for them in goal.

Icon4s:


I am sure Algeria will make your top 5.

But did we not beat them 3-1 in Uyo?

I am sure you know why Nigeria didn't make this AFCON.

We were simply not good enough, but now I think we are improving

Lazyerudite:

Again you have missed my point, you defeated Algeria wan Zambia which is by no means a small feat but don't let us get carried away, we have missed two nations cup consecutively and u still think we are top dog presently, players don't win competitions, teams do. We have players but we are still building a team. Don't get carried away by those victories, we have a tougher opponent in Cameroon who usually have their way with us. As I said I am hoping our progress will continue, even this team on the rise in yet to come back from being a goal or two down. With time they will blend and be formidable, we are even still searching for fullbacks ooo. Me, I will be patient. Top 5? No, can we get there, definitely

We are not there yet. I agree. But being there is a function of where you expect to be.
Going by where we expect to be we are not there yet but going by countries we are competing with along the line to being were we expect to be we are there among the top 5.

Yes, we have missed the last 2 AFCONs, henn but other African nations would not wish to be put in the same group with Nigeria in any competition.

Nigeria missed the last 2 AFCONs but we were never down the ladders in African football. Name your top5 teams now and I would analyze the strength of those teams against Nigeria's. I am not just talking about individual talents but the TEAM as a whole.

terzurum5:
Exclusive – Russian-Nigerian Defender Idowu Cleared To Play For Nigeria After Meeting With Rohr



24 year old Russian-Nigerian defender Brian Idowu has assured coach of the Super Eagles of Nigeria Gernot Rohr that he will be available to play for Nigeria if called up.


Amkar Perm defender Idowu gave the assurances to Rohr during a meeting according to report exclusively gathered by Owngoalnigeria.com editorial staff.


A decision on his inclusion in the Super Eagles squad for their next friendly tie against Senegal will be made in the coming days.


Idowu was born in Russia to a Nigerian father but his mother is half Russian according to reports.


He reportedly spent time in Owerri, South- East Nigeria, arriving Nigeria at the age of 3 before leaving back for Russia at the age of 6.


Since then he has spent the rest of his life in St. Petersburg, where he started his career as a footballer for FC Smena St. Petersburg before moving to Russian giants Zenith St. Petersburg.


However he failed to make the grade at the Russian side and joined Amkar Perm in 2011, where he has spent the last six seasons although he spent time on loan with Dinamo St. Petersburg in 2013.

owngoalnigeria.com/2017/01/23/exclusive-russian-nigerian-defender-idowu-cleared-to-play-for-nigeria-after-meeting-with-rohr/

His inclussion may be a plus.

Lazyerudite:

We were simply not good enough, but now I think we are improving

So Guinea-Bissau, Togo and Zimbabwe are better than Nigeria ba? Because they are good enough to play this year's AFCON abi?

Tarzaa:

His inclussion may be a plus.

I like that word 'may'.

Icon4s:


I like that word 'may'.

Hahahaha! I've never seen him in action so I don't know how he'll combine with the current people.

BascoVanVeli:


add Laffour and Castro. The only South Africans that played a major role were Keegan Dolly and Percy Tau (whom i feel to be SA's best players at the moment). The big goals against Zamalek came from Laffour. Billiat scored them their all important goal in Zambia against Zesco. Onyango was a rock for them in goal.

Close to 90% of the Sundown team are South Africans. Even their coaching crew.
Billiat, the Liberian guy and Onyango were the only foreigners who started that finals. The rest were South Africans.
You cannot compare them with TP Mazembe who starts 8 foreigners in their starting 11.

SA are a few tweaks from hitting the top in Africa. If not for the murder of the formidable keeper/captain Senzo, they would have been much closer to the top. It appears they have moved on after all from that terrible loss.

Icon4s:


Nobody was saying some of these players should never be invited. The debate/search for a credible RB became strongest after the Zambia game in Ndola.

Forgiveness in particular and not even the TheGoodJoe was the one who started the call for Brian Idowu's inclusion as we were preparing to face Algeria. I was one of those that kicked against his inclusion for that game that it may affect the balance of that defense. Playing a debutant in a game of that magnitude was not the ideal. I personally recommended Omeruo for that RB position as he had played that position on one or two occasions for the Super Eagles and also at his first club in Holland.

We however all pointed out that after the Algeria game there would be room for friendlies and we can experiment with those new players. And so it is now. This is the right time to play Brian Idowu. So this is good news.

One thing I observed from the current coaching crew is they minimize risks as much as possible. They only play tested players in very crucial games.

Icon4s:


Good news. Lets quickly try him in our next friendly.

Your view is in line with TheGoodJoe's. That's what am saying in essence.


If you had said anything other than this, you would have invited trouble.

Tarzaa:

Hahahaha! I've never seen him in action so I don't know how he'll combine with the current people.

We need more of your inputs on this forum.

Icon4s:


So Guinea-Bissau, Togo and Zimbabwe are better than Nigeria ba? Because they are good enough to play this year's AFCON abi?

If you can't come out of a qualifying group that has Chad, Tanzania and Egypt who by the way were hit by turmoil in their country then how can you be rated as top dog. When that group was first made I am sure a lot of Nigerians were sure of qualification. We are not as good as you are portraying it. The FIFA ranking might not be fair but it gives us an insight to what is on ground.
We did not qualify because we were not good enough, I think the next draws has Libya, south Africa and another country. We have to qualify first then we take it up from there. The second leg of the match against Egypt exposed us seriously and made me calm down. Togo and Zimbabwe with all due respect qualified by defeating teams like Nigeria so we were simply not good enough

terzurum5:



Your view is in line with TheGoodJoe's. That's what am saying in essence.


If you had said anything other than this, you would have invited trouble.

Who in his right senses would want to kick against his invitation for the Senegal friendly when we don't have a trusted RB?

Icon4s:


We are not there yet. I agree. But being there is a function of where you expect to be.
Going by where we expect to be we are not there yet but going by countries we are competing with along the line to being were we expect to be we are there among the top 5.

Yes, we have missed the last 2 AFCONs, henn but other African nations would not wish to be put in the same group with Nigeria in any competition.


Nigeria missed the last 2 AFCONs but we were never down the ladders in African football. Name your top5 teams now and I would analyze the strength of those teams against Nigeria's. I am not just talking about individual talents but the TEAM as a whole.

Before our recent victories against zambia and Algeria, We were being called super chicken because why, we played lethargic football and teams like Congo ran us raggered, we even lost to Sudan so I think you still think we are super. We lost some respect over the years and even South Africa has started stepping up their game. So that fear factor about Nigeria had be removed until recently. That still does not take away the fact that we are still premature. Rohr has not tasted defeat so we can't say how mentally strong his team is. Time has a way of sorting things out

Lazyerudite:

If you can't come out of a qualifying group that has Chad, Tanzania and Egypt who by the way were hit by turmoil in their country then how can you be rated as top dog. When that group was first made I am sure a lot of Nigerians were sure of qualification. We are not as good as you are portraying it. The FIFA ranking might not be fair but it gives us an insight to what is on ground.
We did not qualify because we were not good enough, I think the next draws has Libya, south Africa and another country. We have to qualify first then we take it up from there. The second leg of the match against Egypt exposed us seriously and made me calm down. Togo and Zimbabwe with all due respect qualified by defeating teams like Nigeria so we were simply not good enough

I am sure u know Chad's withdrawal dealt a great blow to our qualification. We lost only one game which was against Egypt and you recall how we conceded the equalizer to Egypt in Kaduna. Nigeria were simply unlucky in that qualifiers.

That is why I have not made my judgment based on AFCON and AFCON qualifiers alone. Ok, Algeria and Ivory Coast are out of the quarter finals of the on-going AFCON would you now say they are no longer among the top 8 rated teams in Africa?

Icon4s:


I am sure u know Chad's withdrawal dealt a great blow to our qualification. We lost only one game which was against Egypt and you recall how we conceded the equalizer to Egypt in Kaduna. Nigeria were simply unlucky in that qualifiers.

That is why I have not made my judgment based on AFCON and AFCON qualifiers alone. Ok, Algeria and Ivory Coast are out of the quarter finals of the on-going AFCON would you now say they are no longer among the top 8 rated teams in Africa?

These are just excuses, maybe Salah should have buried the last minute chance he had so we would not have to discuss this issue of qualifies again. They drew with us in Naija and defeated and outplayed us in Egypt. We can come up with all the excuses of this world but I will still maintain we were not good enough

Lazyerudite:

These are just excuses, maybe Salah should have buried the last minute chance he had so we would not have to discuss this issue of qualifies again. They drew with us in Naija and defeated and outplayed us in Egypt. We can come up with all the excuses of this world but I will still maintain we were not good enough

You are judging with just one encounter. That is what I am trying to point against. We need a general assessment. Recall that same Egypt beat Ghana 2-0 in November.

Morocco beat Ivory Coast last night you would now rate Morocco higher than Ivory Coast right?

@lazyerudite i think you are underestimating the current strength of the super eagles. yes we failed to qualify for this year's AFCON but like icon said we were slightly unlucky against the egyptians a last minute loss of concentration cost us a win in kaduna. mind you these same egyptians beat a highly fancied ghana in the WC qualifiers. yes congo and sudan beat us but you didn't add that we later rallied to defeat them. don't let failure to qualify for AFCON be the main determinant of our team's level remember we didn't qualify for the 2012 edition but went on to win the next one

i feel man for man ghana has slightly better players than egypt. the only thing going for the egyptians is that the coach plays them to their strength which is defensive counter attacking play

Icon4s:


Good analysis. Except I would replace Ghana with Egypt.

goldfish80:

If you watched the game, SA actually out played Senegal. The penalty call was wrong but based on the ball of play SA were very impressive. Senegal started pressuring just 10mins to full time when after they got 1 goal.

SA were also cheated in Burkina Faso. The referee gave Burkina Faso two controversial penalties in stoppage time before they could tie the game. They missed the first one.

They missed d two penalties,d goal came frm a goal mouth scramble

Icon4s:

South Africa. A country that would bring their 'A' game when they face a very strong opposition. But you find them crumbling when they play teams like Mauritania, Sierra-Leone or Gambia.

Morocco may not have done anything worthy of note in the last 10 years, just also like Algeria, Senegal, DR Congo, Mali and the likes. But if you are a very keen follower of African football, which I know you are, you will know what Morocco are capable of.

I agree with your first paragraph however, I feel their game have evolved having watched them over the past few years.

Your second paragraph, some of those countries you mentioned have achieved more than Morocco in recent past.
Mali have made a couple of semi finals appearances and U17 WC finals.
Algeria qualified for 2010/14 world cups.
DRC are the Chan defending champions and they won the first edition. TP Mazembe are perennial African champions. The success their national team have enjoyed is as a result of their Chan and champions league achievements.
Senegal have been Senegal, they have always made it to the later stages of Afcon.

Morocco on the other hand have not made it past the group stage of Afcon since 2004. That's a solid 11 years. That's damn to long.
It's a pity how much they've declined. I don't consider them a force in African football anymore. Yes dry bones shall rise again but till then.

Icon4s:

We need more of your inputs on this forum.

okay, thanx.

goldfish80:

My list compilation was in no particular order. Sorry I dint point that out.

I think South Africa have made some giant strides in the past few years. They deserve to be in company of Africa's best teams.
Their team is relatively young and I see an upward trajectory going by the standard of their league which is being reflected in the Caf champions league. If Countries like Zambia, Zimbabwe, Uganda owe their recent improvements to the PSL, how about South Africa themselves who owns the league?

I watched SA play against Burkina in Ouagadougou, they should have won that gave if not for the dubious penalty call in stoppage time. Against Senegal, they dominated the Teranga lions for long periods. Let's forget about the controversial referee call in their favour but based on the balance of play, they deserved the win.

I deliberately left out Maroc because they haven't done anything worthy of note in football at any level for the past 10 yrs. Absolutely nothing. Even down to their clubsides. They aren't just there yet, infact I would rather have Cape Verde than Morocco. Technically the Cape verdians have been more successful than Morocco over the past few years,they were ranked inside the top 30 just last year.
A fluke win against a fledgling Ivorian side counts as nothing after all these years, in my opinion.

we should forget the bad officiating against Senegal but point to the one against S/A(are you for real?). I think the list has to do with national team and not club football, so I don't see where sundown come into play, if we go your angle then England should be in World top 5 team.