johnydon22:


Both are ruled by different laws in each level, Laws of the quantum world (even though we know nothing of it yet) breaks down in the macro-scale and that of the macro-world breaks down in the quantum world.

But the Quantum level is the fundamental ground level upon which the macro- is built.

Seriously very very complicated..

Logicbwoy:



Have you watched interstellar?

No. Their presentation in movies like Source Code, X-Men Days of Future Past, Time Machine are irrational. I consider something like The Matrix more intelligent and serious.

Logicbwoy:


I want to jog your minds a little.

Have you watched ant man? The superhero with the ability to shrink himself or matter?

In the movie, he shrunk himself down to the quantum world and nearly died. His scientist mentor noted that the quantum level is an abyss in which no one understands the rules.


What do you think would happen if we could manipulate things at the quantum level.

And he even went subatomic and was able to survive unlike the scientist's wife because he was able to manipulate it. I'll leave what will happen for now because we're yet to understand the quantum world..except if you want me to go sci-fi on you

Reyginus:
No. Their presentation in movies like Source Code, X-Men Days of Future Past, Time Machine are irrational. I consider something like The Matrix more intelligent and serious.

The matrix does not have time travel.

And you haven't watched the most "realistic" time travel movie, interstellar?

Reyginus:
No. Their presentation in movies like Source Code, X-Men Days of Future Past, Time Machine are irrational. I consider something like The Matrix more intelligent and serious.

Watch movies Rey and open your mind to the sci-fi..flow with it and it will start making sense..though don't loose your self

dblackninja:

And he even went subatomic and was able to survive unlike the scientist's wife because he was able to manipulate it. I'll leave what will happen for now because we're yet to understand the quantum world..except if you want me to go sci-fi on you

I thought he survived because someone called out to him?

Logicbwoy:



The matrix does not have time travel.

And you haven't watched the most "realistic" time travel movie, interstellar?

Yeah. That's what possible and not some imaginary nonsense of leaving a particular place while you go to the same place and meet people in the past. That makes zero sense. It's not a question of mathematical formulae.

dblackninja:

Watch movies Rey and open your mind to the sci-fi..flow with it and it will start making sense..though don't loose your self

I do. I love SciFi movies. Tell me how X-men makes sense. I mean travelling back to see the men who are now old in their young age.

Reyginus:
Yeah. That's what possible and not some imaginary nonsense of leaving a particular place while you go to the same place and meet people in the past. That makes zero sense. It's not a question of mathematical formulae.

Open your mind, Reyginus!


Why would time travel be nonsense but linked virtual reality consciousness in the matrix be sensible?

Reyginus:
I do. I love SciFi movies. Tell me how X-men makes sense. I mean travelling back to see the men who are now old in their young age.

Then, please tell me how the matrix makes sense first. Robots creating a virtual reality that looks so real and 90% of humans live in the virtual reality for years without knowing.



I like both xmen and the matrix- I enjoy their fiction but you are putting one over the other.

Logicbwoy:



I thought he survived because someone called out to him?

No not because someone called him out. He returned to the macroscopic world when he managed to reverse the effects that made him go subatomic. If you can remember there're 2 sort of disks he carries--I think red and blue in colour, one able to shrink things and the other capable of magnifying. He inserted the later in his regulator and was able to return.

Logicbwoy:



Open your mind, Reyginus!


Why would time travel be nonsense but linked virtual reality consciousness in the matrix be sensible?

Because it's simply a kind of Alternate Universe operating like an extension of the mind. How can anybody think what's in films like the X-Men Days of Future Past is possible.

Reyginus:
I do. I love SciFi movies. Tell me how X-men makes sense. I mean travelling back to see the men who are now old in their young age.

You really love sci-fi nice . But like LB asked why are you putting one above the other? Can you tell me how matrix made sense to you while X-men is nonsense? Now what don't you really understand in travelling back in time?

Logicbwoy:






I want to jog your minds a little.

Have you watched ant man? The superhero with the ability to shrink himself or matter?

In the movie, he shrunk himself down to the quantum world and nearly died. His scientist mentor noted that the quantum level is an abyss in which no one understands the rules.


What do you think would happen if we could manipulate things at the quantum level.

I have not seen ant man, i do not even have time to watch movies. We will never be able to manipulate things on the quantum. We are only barely able to manipulate things crudely on the atomic level, which is our own level if scale. Till now, we cannot turn lead to gold by atomic manipulation. The quantum level is so weird that it is like Alice in wonderland. Even Einstein was humbly disgraced when he tried to venture into the quantum level, hence he could not believe "God plays dice with the universe". To me the most crazy aspect of the quantum level is that you cannot determine the position and velocity precisely, measuring one quantity automatically de-measures the other quantity. Now, how can you manipulate anything in such a world ?

Reyginus:
Because it's simply a kind of Alternate Universe operating like an extension of the mind. How can anybody think what's in films like the X-Men Days of Future Past is possible.

Well, mutants are possible. Time travel is just a theroetical speculation no worse than alternate universes

Logicbwoy:



Then, please tell me how the matrix makes sense first. Robots creating a virtual reality that looks so real and 90% of humans live in the virtual reality for years without knowing.



I like both xmen and the matrix- I enjoy their fiction but you are putting one over the other.

Our minds are extensions of our existence as beings. The Pineal Gland alone has so much power that even our governments and corporations add fluorine to our paste to impede this. The mind can be developed to it's full capacity. Their are beings who have achieved this by using fully this Third Eye.

The Pituitary Gland and the Pineal Gland have both being proven to be capable of allowing manipulation. I don't buy the Robot idea but the idea that our real selves are hidden by the manipulations and manifestation of a false self is logical. What if these are not Robots but higher bodies, aeons apart our civilization, watching a reality TV show they set in motion?

wirinet:


I have not seen ant man, i do not even have time to watch movies. We will never be able to manipulate things on the quantum. We are only barely able to manipulate things crudely on the atomic level, which is our own level if scale. Till now, we cannot turn lead to gold by atomic manipulation. The quantum level is so weird that it is like Alice in wonderland. Even Einstein was humbly disgraced when he tried to venture into the quantum level, hence he could not believe "God plays dice with the universe". To me the most crazy aspect of the quantum level is that you cannot determine the position and velocity precisely, measuring one quantity automatically de-measures the other quantity. Now, how can you manipulate anything in such a world ?

Better create time to watch movies. Some visuals are inspiring and life changing. I am currently setting up a business because a movie gave me an idea.


As for the rest of your comment, I have faith in scientists. They are mad enough to get things working at a nano level, I'm sure they will break the barrier to understanding the quantum/subatomic level.

Everything follows rules. Scientist just need to figure out the rules of the quantum level even if it is counter-intuitive at our macro-level

Impossible is nothing!

wirinet:


I have not seen ant man, i do not even have time to watch movies. We will never be able to manipulate things on the quantum. We are only barely able to manipulate things crudely on the atomic level, which is our own level if scale. Till now, we cannot turn lead to gold by atomic manipulation. The quantum level is so weird that it is like Alice in wonderland. Even Einstein was humbly disgraced when he tried to venture into the quantum level, hence he could not believe "God plays dice with the universe". To me the most crazy aspect of the quantum level is that you cannot determine the position and velocity precisely, measuring one quantity automatically de-measures the other quantity. Now, how can you manipulate anything in such a world ?

You have to know all these things are just assumptions. Nobody claims it's feasible now. If science sticks to what it knows currently, then I doubt that we'll be able to discover a new thing in the future.

Logicbwoy:

I want to jog your minds a little.

Have you watched ant man? The superhero with the ability to shrink himself or matter?

In the movie, he shrunk himself down to the quantum world and nearly died. His scientist mentor noted that the quantum level is an abyss in which no one understands the rules.


What do you think would happen if we could manipulate things at the quantum level.

Nope i have not watched the Ant man, i only like the Marvel Thor and Avengers series plus Captain America thing eheee Iron man.

Well just like you quoted above, the quantum world is an abyss that nobody understand it's rules yet and this is because we are used to rules.

Everything we know of is turned upside down once we dabble into the quantum scale making us term it spooky.

Cause and effect doesn't hold sway there.

We can derive ideas and apply quantum science in our world which can better our technological ability example Quantum computer but to be fully able to grasp the depth of the quantum realm is very shadowy.

We are used to the macro-universe so elusive to us was the universe within.

To me personally the only reason we may not be able to understand the quantum world at all is that we need to think outside the box here, maybe we shouldn't be expecting anything, a set of laws on quantum manifestations.

What if the only laws of the quantum world is there are no laws .. and if this is so then we must first shed off our idea of laws of physics taught by the macro-world when ever we look into the micro.

This is my personal thought

Logicbwoy:



How the hell is it illogical to ask God to create someone greater than him?

God can always reduce his powers, can't he?

Or if God's powers are infinite, there is always infinity plus one.




But if we read the bible, we start to even realise a new twist- Yahweh is not all powerful. He was an angry, jealous, racist and vindictive God. Showing that he gave into his emotions. This means that he could be manipulated.

Its an illogical question . How will I even explain it to you sef . Ok . Imagine a filled tank , filled to the brim . And someone asks if the tank can be filled more than brim ? I does not make any sense because anything outside the brim , the water pours out . The tank being filled means water being to the level of the brim .

So imagine asking God to create someone more powerful than himself - its illogical because every imagination of how powerful someone can be God is that person . There is no opportunity for someone to be greater- its not real . There is no "power filling" outside the brim . "The power tank " is filled . So nothing can go beyond God , anything can go below God .

Comprendre ?

That's why its a specious argument - it looks logical at first look but its actually false , fallacious , not logical one bit .

Reyginus:
Our minds are extensions of our existence as beings. The Pineal Gland alone has so much power that even our governments and corporations add fluorine to our paste to impede this. The mind can be developed to it's full capacity. Their are beings who have achieved this by using fully this Third Eye.

The Pituitary Gland and the Pineal Gland have both being proven to be capable of allowing manipulation. I don't buy the Robot idea but the idea that our real selves are hidden by the manipulations and manifestation of a false self is logical. What if these are not Robots but higher bodies, aeons apart our civilization, watching a reality TV show they set in motion?

You see, i have asked myself this question in bold. It is an interesting thought. The only problem here is that you open your mind to another reality but close your mind to time travel- which in itself is another reality.

dblackninja:

You really love sci-fi nice . But like LB asked why are you putting one above the other? Can you tell me how matrix made sense to you while X-men is nonsense? Now what don't you really understand in travelling back in time?

The Matrix is like an Out-Of-Body-Experience something some of my friends can do.

In X-Men, the dead, by a simple backward movement of a being, are brought to life. It assumes something that is not true and illogical. That is, that every generation live in different universes and their existence is happening at the same time. You don't see it like that?

Reyginus:
No. Their presentation in movies like Source Code, X-Men Days of Future Past, Time Machine are irrational. I consider something like The Matrix more intelligent and serious.

Time travel is feasible on paper and pen that is mathematically, more so we travel through time and our velocity always have an effect on time.

Time dilation.

Though time travel is mathematically plausible, i doubt it's feasibility in actuality. Out of the mathematical representation, it doesn't make sense to me either.

E.g: In the star trek logicbwoy talked about, one of them travelled to the future and met his future self (An old man).

This literally should change everything in the timeline and that meeting still would end up not happening after he goes back in the actual time since the particular line of action was averted through the cause of their adventures.

He met a future that will end up not happening

You see, it juggles up the brain.

dblackninja:

You really confused me here bro If you can do all things then you can do all things. Are you saying that God can't do all things again

It means He can do anything logical , reasonable , within His plans for life or the existence of anything . Example of what God cannot do is to sin .

Understand the Christian's explanation of his belief in God , misconceptions are not allowed here

johnydon22:


Nope i have not watched the Ant man, i only like the Marvel Thor and Avengers series plus Captain America thing eheee Iron man.

Well just like you quoted above, the quantum world is an abyss that nobody understand it's rules yet and this is because we are used to rules.

Everything we know of is turned upside down once we dabble into the quantum scale making us term it spooky.

Cause and effect doesn't hold sway there.

We can derive ideas and apply quantum science in our world which can better our technological ability example Quantum computer but to be fully able to grasp the depth of the quantum realm is very shadowy.

We are used to the macro-universe so elusive to us was the universe within.

[size=14pt]To me personally the only reason we may not be able to understand the quantum world at all is that we need to think outside the box here, maybe we shouldn't be expecting anything, a set of laws on quantum manifestations.

What if the only laws of the quantum world is there are no laws .. and if this is so then we must first shed off our idea of laws of physics taught by the macro-world when ever we look into the micro.[/size]

This is my personal thought

I also have similar thoughts about the quantum world having no rules. However, I am more convinced by the notion that the quantum world is just counter-intuitive. Everything we know so far about our physical world is governed by rules. I think we just need to figure out the rules of the quantum world.

Logicbwoy:



Well, mutants are possible. Time travel is just a theroetical speculation no worse than alternate universes

No. It's worse. The mind is prove a lot of thing is possible.

KingEbukasBlog:


Its an illogical question . How will I even explain it to you sef . Ok . Imagine a filled tank , filled to the brim . And someone asks if the tank can be filled more than brim ? I does not make any sense because anything outside the brim , the water pours out . The tank being filled means water being to the level of the brim .

So imagine asking God to create someone more powerful than himself - its illogical because every imagination of how powerful someone can be God is that person . There is no opportunity for someone to be greater- its not real . There is no "power filling" outside the brim . "The power tank " is filled . So nothing can go beyond God , anything can go below God .

Comprendre ?

That's why its a specious argument - it looks logical at first look but its actually false , fallacious , not logical one bit .

Here now lies the problem: for a tank to reach a filling limit means it is limited and so finite, so from this God's abilities are finite there are certain points it cannot reach or exceed.

If you propose an infinite power of God then the tank analogy falls apart and God leaves more room for possibilities.

Like Logicbwoy mentioned above there is always Infiniti + Infiniti or infiniti+ 1..

So for this to hold sway you have indirectly shown God's powers to be limited therefore still kills the Omnipotence..

It's a paradox, i hope you understand trying to solve paradoxes only ends one way. . Logicbwoy just baited you.

johnydon22:


In order words this is another way of saying god cannot create another greater than it

In other words , its an illogical question and so no rational conclusion can be made .

Logicbwoy:



You see, i have asked myself this question in bold. It is an interesting thought. The only problem here is that you open your mind to another reality but close your mind to time travel- which in itself is another reality.

You don't seem to understand me. Time travel is a Logical contradiction.

johnydon22:


Here now lies the problem: for a tank to reach a filling limit means it is limited and so finite, so from this God's abilities are finite there are certain points it cannot reach or exceed.

If you propose an infinite power of God then the tank analogy falls apart and God leaves more room for possibilities.

Like Logicbwoy mentioned above there is always Infiniti + Infiniti or infiniti+ 1..

So for this to hold sway you have indirectly shown God's powers to be limited therefore still kills the Omnipotence..

It's a paradox, i hope you understand trying to solve paradoxes only ends one way. . Logicbwoy just baited you.

No . Im trying to explain how illogical the question not saying God's power is finite so he would understand . Infinite in other words , boundless , unlimited . It means nothing can go beyond .

KingEbukasBlog:


Its an illogical question . How will I even explain it to you sef . Ok . Imagine a filled tank , filled to the brim . And someone asks if the tank can be filled more than brim ? I does not make any sense because anything outside the brim , the water pours out . The tank being filled means water being to the level of the brim .

So imagine asking God to create someone more powerful than himself - its illogical because every imagination of how powerful someone can be God is that person . There is no opportunity for someone to be greater- its not real . There is no "power filling" outside the brim . "The power tank " is filled . So nothing can go beyond God , anything can go below God .

Comprendre ?

That's why its a specious argument - it looks logical at first look but its actually false , fallacious , not logical one bit .

I like your analogy with the full tank but you seem not to understand that it does not help your case.


The tank can always be expanded to take more volume of water.


What you do not realise is that God himself is an illogical question.

God, unlike every other physical being, entity or matter, can not be expanded, reduced, measured or limited- according to your theology.


However, when you say God is "omnipotent", you are putting a measurement on him. A measurement of his power.......AND WE ALL KNOW THAT WITH MEASUREMENT, THERE COMES AN INTERESTING COMPLEMENTARY CONCEPT OF SIZE. SIZE CAN BE INCREASED OR EXPANDED.

Reyginus:
The Matrix is like an Out-Of-Body-Experience something some of my friends can do.

In X-Men, the dead, by a simple backward movement of a being, are brought to life. It assumes something that is not true and illogical. That is, that every generation live in different universes and their existence is happening at the same time. You don't see it like that?

You believe in OBE but you don't believe that some can travel to the past or the future?
How is it illogical? As you believe the mind can be plucked out of the body..can you tell me what happens when such person is killed in that reality? Can that person be brought back to life again??