1. DOES GOD EXIST?

The absolute sincere answer to this is YES!
GOD EXISTS!


Oh yes you read that right. God exists.
According to the Merriam Webster Dictionary this is the definition of God.

God : the perfect and all-powerful spirit or being that is worshipped especially by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the one who created and rules the universe

This definition is also the root cause of the problem of if God exists or not.

Why?
We expect certain characteristics of God.

1. We expect it/him/she to be all powerful.

2. We expect God to be a spirit.

3. We expect God to confirm to Religion.

These are the very problems, we have so defined God that we seem to know so much about God. But the problem really is we are not only saying God exists, we are emphatically saying MY GOD EXISTS!

So you say your God exists and you discard other Gods, then we have a serious issue. PROVE YOUR GOD!

This problem is usually resolved with the "God of the Gaps" argument. And trying to force people into accepting your own religious documents.

This won't hold water because if you want people to just believe you because your religious book is your back up, then why are you rejecting other religious documents?

God exists because we choose to attribute certain things to him. At the end God may just be Energy, Photons or whatever. Maybe one day we will discover the absolute source of energy and matter which are the building blocks of what we call existence. That source is God, because we say God created what we refer to as existence.

For now the honest truth is WE DON'T KNOW GOD. GOD is there because we attribute creation to it.

At a time people thought the origin of matter and energy was from the sun and they worshipped the sun as God.

The true quest of man is to find our origin, in doing that we are searching for God.

Just like the sun, it is evident that God has no obligation from us. God would do what it would do.

Man has always been trying to make God work in his favour. We want to be able to put God to our advantage and this is where conflicts of Gods start.


TO BE CONTINUED

^^^^^

GOD does not exist as you put it cos he is the proof of existence!


Existence is a creature...every thing created has a begining/end and is bounded by the concept of time & space...GOD is uncreated


The human(created) intelligence/understanding cannot penetrate or grasp the true essence of GOD


Whatever exists will have to depend on the source of existence to continue to exist


GOD is INDEPENDENT


So, You cannot proove the existence of GOD ...cos whatever proof you tender would also rely on another proof for its validity...and so on down the line......thats why the big bang/evolution theory has generated more consequent questions than answers.....cos the moment you remove GOD from the equation... you‘ll never get to the bottom of anything


That is why religion was never fashioned/founded on REASON but FAITH

You can only come to the realization of GOD when you fall into the pool of pre-existence & eternity...through self effacement/annihilation...pratically, u‘ll have to stop existing

ikupakuti:
^^^^^

GOD does not exist as you put it cos he is the proof of existence!


Existence is a creature...every thing created has a begining/end and is bounded by the concept of time & space...GOD is uncreated


The human(created) intelligence/understanding cannot penetrate or grasp the true essence of GOD


Whatever exists will have to depend on the source of existence to continue to exist


GOD is INDEPENDENT


So, You cannot proove the existence of GOD ...cos whatever proof you tender would also rely on another proof for its validity...and so on down the line......thats why the big bang/evolution theory has generated more consequent questions than answers.....cos the moment you remove GOD from the equation... you‘ll never get to the bottom of anything


That is why religion was never fashioned/founded on REASON but FAITH

You can only come to the realization of GOD when you fall into the pool of pre-existence & eternity...through self effacement/annihilation...pratically, u‘ll have to stop existing

I love your reply. This is the aim of this thread. Very intelligent argument you have there.
Problem is language. Language cannot grasp the definition of God fully, the simplest and universally accepted attribute of God is Creation.
We can never find God, But if we insist that whatever created everything in existence is God, then God automatically exists even though we can't find this source of everything, we would only have to hang that title on a phenomenon we don't know and probably can't know.
Hope you understand

HardMirror:

I love your reply. This is the aim of this thread. Very intelligent argument you have there.
Problem is language. Language cannot grasp the definition of God fully, the simplest and universally accepted attribute of God is Creation.
We can never find God, But if we insist that whatever created everything in existence is God, then God automatically exists even though we can't find this source of everything, we would only have to hang that title on a phenomenon we don't know and probably can't know.
Hope you understand

Now i understand you

Ride on bro!

Perhaps the God you're looking for is in you, perhaps you are one of the trillions of cells that makes up the organism called God. And if you and I (living things) are part of the network of cells that form the body of the organism, then the larger we are the bigger the organism, the healthier we are so is the organism and vise versa.

One of the reason why "free will" is inherent in man is for him to think independently!

Now, whether you believe in or not in the existence of the Supreme Being called God, is entirely your business! Has anyone or God Himself ever comes to you and said, "You must worship God by force?". I don't think so.

So, I find it very irrational and disturbing seeing people dissipate a lot of energies arguing the existence and non existence of God. And I ask: for what exactly? Does it change my beliefs or yours? For we all have our different views and beliefs to keep.

So then, keep yours and I'll keep mine!

Splinz:
One of the reason why "free will" is inherent in man is for him to think independently!

Now, whether you believe in or not in the existence of the Supreme Being called God, is entirely your business! Has anyone or God Himself ever comes to you and said, "You must worship God by force?". I don't think so.

So, I find it very irrational and disturbing seeing people dissipate a lot of energies arguing the existence and non existence of God. And I ask: for what exactly? Does it change my beliefs or yours? For we all have our different views and beliefs to keep.

So then, keep yours and I'll keep mine!

Correction.

We do not have freewill, or as free a will as you think.

We are encumbered by many many extraneous impulses, instinctive drives, biologically and psychologically driven needs and drives.

Our brain tricks us to accept our biologically and psychologically driven impulses as have been originated from wills.

Most , in fact, the majority of our acts do not originate from our Will.

plaetton:


Correction.

We do not have freewill, or as free a will as you think.

We are encumbered by many many extraneous impulses, instinctive drives, biologically and psychologically driven needs and drives.

Our brain tricks us to accept our biologically and psychologically driven impulses as have been originated from wills.

Most , in fact, the majority of our acts do not originate from our Will.

Oh! All of a sudden, you're no longer in control but one pitiably driven by instincts, psychological and biological impulses?

While these factors may play out some will in us, they do not decide my faith, specifically the existence or non existence of God! Your brain begins to play tricks on you the moment you strip yourself of its power, and cling to what is inferior.

So you see, I have free will, which is what I've just used to think differently! Same with my belief or not in God, which I said, "I have mine to keep and you have yours too!".

Now, can we correctly conclude that your belief or not in God is directly influenced by all of these factors which you've opined?

Splinz:


Oh! All of a sudden, you're no longer in control but one pitiably driven by instincts, psychological and biological impulses?

While these factors may play out some will in us, they do not decide my faith, specifically the existence or non existence of God! Your brain begins to play tricks on you the moment you strip yourself of its power, and cling to what is inferior.

So you see, I have free will, which is what I've just used to think differently! Same with my belief or not in God, which I said, "I have mine to keep and you have yours too!".

Now, can we correctly conclude that your belief or not in God is directly influenced by all of these factors which you've opined?

I wanted to open a thread on this topic of freewill.

Now that you've asked, when I have time later, I will offer some scientific proofs that even your religious beliefs are biologically and sociologically driven, and not really a choice of your free will as are want to think.

plaetton:


I wanted to open a thread on this topic of freewill.

Now that you've asked, when I have time later, I will offer some scientific proofs that even your religious beliefs are biologically and sociologically driven, and not really a choice of your free will as are want to think.

There's a problem, bro. You see, it is still pointless because I may or may not believe your scientific proofs.

And so in the end, it still narrows down to what? My free will! I've said it before that we all have our different views and opinions about almost everything, and personally, I don't have any problem with whatsoever you choose at your own discretion to believe or believe not.

So, the best thing to do like I've opined before is to keep your own belief and I'll keep mine! And if at any point in time, I found out that your views are better than mine, I may, still of my free will choose to accept it and change my stand.

plaetton:


I wanted to open a thread on this topic of freewill.

Now that you've asked, when I have time later, I will offer some scientific proofs that even your religious beliefs are biologically and sociologically driven, and not really a choice of your free will as are want to think.

You should know that we are neither the absolute master of our actions nor bound by fixed immutable decrees..

..but the truth lies in the middle

Our actions depend partly on our own freewill & partly on causes outside us

We are “free“ to wish & act in a particular manner but our will is always restrained & determined by exterior causes

These causes springs frm general laws of nature...GOD alone knows there sequences.

plaetton:


Correction.

We do not have freewill, or as free a will as you think.

We are encumbered by many many extraneous impulses, instinctive drives, biologically and psychologically driven needs and drives.

Our brain tricks us to accept our biologically and psychologically driven impulses as have been originated from wills.

Most , in fact, the majority of our acts do not originate from our Will.

Well said

THE SUPERNATURAL

Does the Supernatural exist?
Absolutely yes!

This is a Nomenclature given to things we can't understand or explain. It is nothing more than that.

Eg is lightening supernatural?
Not to everybody. Scientists now understand the workings and creation of lightening to the extent that they can recreate lightening at will.

At a time lightening was considered the wrath of God. Lightening was seen as a tool only God could control.

But we are way ahead of that. Airplanes fly in the sky and lightening passes around the fuselage of the airplane without causing any damage to the airplane.
Does this mean man has tamed the wrath of God?

Attributing things we don't yet understand to God would only make ridicule of the same God when we fully understand them.


It was once believed that diseases were caused by the Act of God. At a time people never knew diseases were caused by tiny organisms.

If were had continued in this ignorance we wontt have vaccines, medications, therapies etc used in treating diseases.

Chicken pox for example was incurable some years back, it was seen as the wrath of Sopono the Yoruba God of Poxes (small pox Chicken pox etc), but thanks to our understanding of viruses and bacteria we have been able to treat, vaccinate against and even eradicate a lot of diseases. Small pox and chicken pox are no longer supernatural to us.


Does the supernatural exist?
Yes it does only as a nomenclature for things we don't understand.

Magic is only magic until you know the tricks. (See the masked magician videos on youtube you will be amazed at how easy it is to trick people with magic, when all there is to it are tricks)

Does JUJU, Vodoo work?
Most likely, how and why do they work? It depends on the vodoo in question.
A Vodoo man claims he can make you bullet proof and he only tests you with his own gun. That is the secret of his trick.
This is reason why many armed robbers end up killed with their "bullet-proof" charm even on them. Why did it fail.


Imagine a primitive man seeing a gun for the first time in his life. He would think the gun is a magic ward since it kills what ever it is pointed at with a loud noise. Imagine using a bomb in the time of moses in the bible. What would people have thought? They will believe you if you told them is was a supernatural device.



Education is not ability to speak a foreign language or have a certificate. It is the liberation of the mind from unfounded assertions.
When a primitive man sees a volcano, he makes unfounded assertions, the educated man seeks to understand why the volcano behave the way it does.

Why does a kitchen knife cut vegetables but can't cut a spoon or slice through a glass bottle?
An educated mind knows it is because of the properties of the knife and what you intend to cut.
We humans take advantage of the properties of different elements to achieve our desired results.

This also includes deceiving our fellow humans. Education makes you seek to understand. If you don't then you become a slave to cheap tricks.

The supernatural exists only if we choose to be ignorant.

Let us keep pressing for knowledge.

Don't get carried away by what you don't understand. Don't spiritualize things you don't understand.
Don't claim to understand what you don't understand.
That you don't understand something now does not mean you won't in the future.
If the secrets of technology were kept away from humanity we would have been worshiping those who are more advanced than us thinking they have supernatural powers.

Time to wake up and put our brains to work. We have a lot to understand and religion gives conclusive answers that would only hamper the progress of research and query of the mind.

Johnydon22
Cloudgoddess
PastorAIO
Freecocoa
JackBizzle
Sonoflucifer
Plaetton
Sarassin
Alfamann
Oluwaseytiano
Kaboninc
Dazzlingd
Lepasharon
Calliope
Santori
Purerealist
Simplex2
Deepsight
Thehomer
Ifenes
Juststardust
Immorttal
Muttleylaff
Gatiano
Analice107

Analice107 I mentioned you not because I regard your arguments on this forum. But because of your statements you made in a similar thread which had no logical footing and lacked any semblance of intelligence from an educated mind. I say this not because I don't belief in what you belief, but because you make your belief cloud your judgment making you an easy prey for anyone who can play along your sentimental inclinations

Nice write up

nice one

HardMirror:
THE SUPERNATURAL



Time to wake up and put our brains to work. We have a lot to understand and religion gives conclusive answers that would only hamper the progress of research and query of the mind.

Yes indeed.

The problem with religion is that it puts the answers before the questions, and then forbids the questions from being asked.

@ hardmirror dat supernatural stuff has always baffled me. I've never personally experience any supernatural stuff, but i've heard incidents of supernatural stuffs frm pple close to me. They sound so real dat i begin to wonder wot they stand to gain if they were lying. For instance blood money. If making blood money is fake, if no one has ever made money through spiritual means, why d hell is such believe so rampant, so common dat it is actually one of d first things we were taught while growing up? What do pple stand to gain by lying to others about the existence of blood money??

HardMirror:
Analice107 I mentioned you not because I regard your arguments on this forum. But because of your statements you made in a similar thread which had no logical footing and lacked any semblance of intelligence from an educated mind. I say this not because I don't belief in what you belief, but because you make your belief cloud your judgment making you an easy prey for anyone who can play along your sentimental inclinations

Thanks for your concern.
I have never claimed to be intelligent, you are the intelligent one, yet in my uneducated and illogical mind, i find your arguments very childish

analice107:

Thanks for your concern.
I have never bclaimed to be intelligent, you are the intelligent one, yet in my uneducated and illogical mind , i find your arguments very childish

Oh yes. Take note of the bolded. Try and be educated

Edybleketara:
@ hardmirror dat supernatural stuff has always baffled me. I've never personally experience any supernatural stuff, but i've heard incidents of supernatural stuffs frm pple close to me. They sound so real dat i begin to wonder wot they stand to gain if they were lying. For instance blood money. If making blood money is fake, if no one has ever made money through spiritual means, why d hell is such believe so rampant, so common dat it is actually one of d first things we were taught while growing up? What do pple stand to gain by lying to others about the existence of blood money??

You don't know what you are not preveledged to.
Forget what people tell you, we love sensation as humans.

Have you done blood money?
Has any of your friends done blood money?
Did they show you the process?

ONLY AND ONLY IF all any of your answer is YES before I can take your claims serious and then engage you in further questions, don't get carried away with what people say. Gist must always be sensational. As an educated mind I don't get carried away with what pEople say. I have tricked so many people successfully so far that I am very wary of what I believe. You need to understand how humans take advantage of the ignorance of fellow humans it is survival of the fittest. Don't be among the crowd, be among the enlightened. Be calm and ask the intelligent questions before you get sucked into the journey of no return.
I am a baller and I roll with ballers. Money is about intellegence. I just checked out of R&A hotel Ikeja. Those who know will know what I am talking about. Blood money does not exist. These are MEN people believe made money from jazz. We know as e dey go. Forget them say. We are in the know. Got no time for bullshit

plaetton:


Correction.

We do not have freewill, or as free a will as you think.

We are encumbered by many many extraneous impulses, instinctive drives, biologically and psychologically driven needs and drives.

Our brain tricks us to accept our biologically and psychologically driven impulses as have been originated from wills.

Most , in fact, the majority of our acts do not originate from our Will.

I came here to say this. Increase my adrenaline: I go into fight-or-flight, increase my dopamine: I will see whatever activity I'm currently doing to the end, increase my endorphin levels and I'm more likely to repeat an action.

'Freewill' is probably just an illusion.

HardMirror:

Oh yes. Take note of the bolded. Try and be educated

In your mind you have said something. Every theist is an illiterate. What a ..., don't let me sin against my God

analice107:

In your mind you have said something.
Every theist is an illiterate. What a ..., don't let me sin against my God

Are you every theist?
What fallacy of hasty generalization. Show me where is said every theist is an illiterate.
I have said what I have to say got better people both theists and atheists to discuss with. No time for sentiments

HardMirror:

Are you every theist?
What fallacy of hasty generalization. Show me where is said every theist is an illiterate.
I have said what I have to say got better people both theists and atheists to discuss with. No time for sentiments

Lolz. This is the second time am coming in contact with you. The first, Urahara mentioned me, and now you mentioned me. You don't exist in my world.

CoolUsername:


I came here to say this. Increase my adrenaline: I go into fight-or-flight, increase my dopamine: I will see whatever activity I'm currently doing to the end, increase my endorphin levels and I'm more likely to repeat an action.

'Freewill' is probably just an illusion.

Absolutely. But don't forget there are impulses that determine the release of these hormones.

Life and reality shall be hacked before this century is out and we will see an age of immortal consciousness. Watchout for my work in this field. Working on something, but time is not ripe to blow my trumpet. In 2 years time we will have a template to present. Still working in the thesis, this is not science we can even give a prove of concept to yet, but we can give models, and in 10years time or a bit more present prototypes. For now all we got is theories, models, then we chat a path for prove of concept working on functional units towards of full prototype for cybernetic reality. Hope to raise funds from literature first.

analice107:

Lolz. This is the second time am coming in contact with you. The first, Urahara mentioned me, and now you mentioned me. You don't exist in my world.

Be happy

plaetton:


Yes indeed.

The problem with religion is that it puts the answers before the questions, and then forbids the questions from being asked.

Absolutely

HardMirror:

You don't know what you are not preveledged to.
Forget what people tell you, we love sensation as humans.

Have you done blood money?
Has any of your friends done blood money?
Did they show you the process?

ONLY AND ONLY IF all any of your answer is YES before I can take your claims serious and then engage you in further questions, don't get carried away with what people say. Gist must always be sensational. As an educated mind I don't get carried away with what pEople say. I have tricked so many people successfully so far that I am very wary of what I believe. You need to understand how humans take advantage of the ignorance of fellow humans it is survival of the fittest. Don't be among the crowd, be among the enlightened. Be calm and ask the intelligent questions before you get sucked into the journey of no return.
I am a baller and I roll with ballers. Money is about intellegence. I just checked out of R&A hotel Ikeja. Those who know will know what I am talking about. Blood money does not exist. These are MEN people believe made money from jazz. We know as e dey go. Forget them say. We are in the know. Got no time for bullshit

Ok let me give u an experience dat happened very close to me. In my village in Enugu state, it is a tradition by d deity dat a man must not attend a burial if he himself has not buried his own father with a cow. Burying one's father by killing a cow is seen as a sign of respect in my village. If a man is to attend a burial for any reason having not buried his own father with a cow, then he must not eat or drink any thing served in d burial, if he does, he will be struck by d gods of d land. I have heard of incidents of some men been struck to death and others stricken with stroke for breaking dat custom. One of my uncle in d village even narrated to us how he was carried in a wheelbarrow running helter skelter for solution when it happened to him. He attended a burial having not buried his father with a cow and he was struck with stroke. I have always brushed all these stuffs as superstition until it happpened to my dad.

----My dad lost one of his relatives, and he was somehow manipulated by his other relatives to come to d village just for condolence visit. My dad did not bury his father with a cow cos of his christain believes. He eventually went to d village just for condolence visit and not to attend d burial. Though he attended d burial, but didn't eat or drink anything served there. After d burial, every body went home, nothing happened to my dad. Later in d night before going to bed in his relatives' house, he was served food and drink. He ate and drank not knowing the drink was frm d burial ceremony. And dat was dat. The next day, when he returned frm d village, he we stricken with stroke. So how do u explain dis @ hardmirror? My dad was a vibrant and healthy retired soldier who served in d nigerian army for 35 yrs and didnt even have HBP prior to dat incident. He only had d stroke after coming back frm d village. If spiritual stuffs does not exist, how does one explain dis??

Edybleketara:
Ok let me give u an experience dat happened very close to me. In my village in Enugu state, it is a tradition by d deity dat a man must not attend a burial if he himself has not buried his own father with a cow. Burying one's father by killing a cow is seen as a sign of respect in my village. If a man is to attend a burial for any reason having not buried his own father with a cow, then he must not eat or drink any thing served in d burial, if he does, he will be struck by d gods of d land. I have heard of incidents of some men been struck to death and others stricken with stroke for breaking dat custom. One of my uncle in d village even narrated to us how he was carried in a wheelbarrow running helter skelter for solution when it happened to him. He attended a burial having not buried his father with a cow and he was struck with stroke. I have always brushed all these stuffs as superstition until it happpened to my dad.

----My dad lost one of his relatives, and he was somehow manipulated by his other relatives to come to d village just for condolence visit. My dad did not bury his father with a cow cos of his christain believes. He eventually went to d village just for condolence visit and not to attend d burial. Though he attended d burial, but didn't eat or drink anything served there. After d burial, every body went home, nothing happened to my dad. Later in d night before going to bed in his relatives' house, he was served food and drink. He ate and drank not knowing the drink was frm d burial ceremony. And dat was dat. The next day, when he returned frm d village, he we stricken with stroke. So how do u explain dis @ hardmirror? My dad was a vibrant and healthy retired soldier who served in d nigerian army for 35 yrs and didnt even have HBP prior to dat incident. He only had d stroke after coming back frm d village. If spiritual stuffs does not exist, how does one explain dis??

Very good one here.
We can only arrive at a conclusion after we investigate this further.

1. Does it happen to EVERYONE that breaks this rule? And ALWAYS?
2. If your answer is YES then how do you arrive at this answer?

3. Let us examine 3 cases of people it happened to. How similar are their cases? Were they truly healthy before the breakdown? If yes, how do you know? Are they all dead now or still having the stroke?
Let us start with 3 cases even tho that is too small for scientific sampling.
I don't ever get carried away with what people say. People exaggerate, it is something we are all guilty of, we try to make our stories sensational. So don't get carried away with what people have told you.
Try and understand the pathology of your dad's illness.

HardMirror:

Very good one here.
We can only arrive at a conclusion after we investigate this further.

1. Does it happen to EVERYONE that breaks this rule? And ALWAYS?

I don't really know cos i've never heard of anyone breaking dat rule and nothing happen to him.

3. Let us examine 3 cases of people it happened to. How similar are their cases? Were they truly healthy before the breakdown? If yes, how do you know? Are they all dead now or still having the stroke?[/quote]

----Dis r also gud questions, but i cant give u an answer cos i only have substantial info about my dad's case.---
Let us start with 3 cases even tho that is too small for scientific sampling.
I don't ever get carried away with what people say. People exaggerate, it is something we are all guilty of, we try to make our stories sensational. So don't get carried away with what people have told you.
Try and understand the pathology of your dad's illness.[/quote]

----My dad was completely healthy b4 going to d village. He was still relatively young and vibrant. My dad is d kind of person dat as soon as his head touches d pillow he has started sleeping and snoring. He wasn't sick in anyway. But all of a sudden, he had stroke only after he unknowingly broke d rule.

Edybleketara:


I don't really know cos i've never heard of anyone breaking dat rule and nothing happen to him.

3. Let us examine 3 cases of people it happened to. How similar are their cases? Were they truly healthy before the breakdown? If yes, how do you know? Are they all dead now or still having the stroke?

----Dis r also gud questions, but i cant give u an answer cos i only have substantial info about my dad's case.---
Let us start with 3 cases even tho that is too small for scientific sampling.
I don't ever get carried away with what people say. People exaggerate, it is something we are all guilty of, we try to make our stories sensational. So don't get carried away with what people have told you.
Try and understand the pathology of your dad's illness.

----My dad was completely healthy b4 going to d village. He was still relatively young and vibrant. My dad is d kind of person dat as soon as his head touches d pillow he has started sleeping and snoring. He wasn't sick in anyway. But all of a sudden, he had stroke only after he unknowingly broke d rule.

This is the problem with supernatural claims, no substantial sample data to work with, they depend mostly on highly exaggerated narration. Your dad's case may just be a coincidence or people should be very careful what they eat in your village.
Don't be surprised that it happens to even those who meet all the traditional rites, yet endup with similar infirmity.
So for now all we are doing are making assumptions in favour of the myth.