By EMERSON GOBERT, JR
Saturday, August 15, 2009
•Chief Great Ogboru
Photo: Sun News Publishing

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Governorship candidate of Democratic Peoples Party (DPP) in Delta State in the 2007 elections, Chief Great Ogboru took a critical look at the Nigerian polity recently and submitted that he does not believe that the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) can change Nigeria for good.

He spoke about his battles at the electoral tribunal to unseat Governor Emmanuel Uduaghan, as he insists that no election took place in Delta State hence there couldn’t have been an Uduaghan winner, and why he is still pursuing the case less than two years to the end of the administration.

Hear him: “In the pursuit of justice, time is of little consequence. If we have to leave them, then they think that they can get away with it anytime and they will continue.”

Though Ogboru does not support militancy in the Niger Delta, he said the reprisal attack by the Joint military Task Force (JTF) on Gbaramatu Kingdom was genocide. Ogboru’s interests however are the causal factors of this militancy and where the arms came from in the first place.

On the government’s amnesty to the militants he said: “We are granting amnesty to people that we don’t even know… so that is why I look at the amnesty thing as another PDP joke.”
He condemned MEND’s attack on Atlas Cove saying, “it is reprehensible that such a thing could happen now especially when we are talking about amnesty.

On whether the release of Henry Okah can guarantee peace, Ogboru said: “I don’t think his release will have any hope whatsoever on the situation of things because the real criminals, I want to think, have not been apprehended and the truth of this matter has not been gotten to yet.”

He also spoke on various issues, including his relationship with Gen. Ibrahim Babangida, Major Saliba Mukoro and President Yar’Adua’s 7-point agenda.

Your name was among debtors published vis- a-vis failed banks recently. How much are you owing or are you not owing?
The list is of debtors or insider-related loans or loans taken by directors of the bank and I am not a director of the bank. I do not have an account in the bank. Of course, my company does but the issues as raised are far outrageous from reality. The reality of the situation is that what you heard in the press is hyperbolic. It is unreal and not the true situation of anything. But suffice to say that I am not indebted to that bank neither am I a director in that bank, nor do I hold an account in that bank. So the records, as far as that matter is concerned, should be straightened out. But there are other issues that are business-related. I handle these in a purely business manner. Therefore, I’m not able to comment on them here right now.

What is the position of your electoral case against Governor Emmanuel Uduaghan?
The position of my case is that the people of Delta State did not vote in the last general election and that results were manufactured and read and Uduaghan was declared a winner, we are still in the tribunal and we have called 68 witnesses so far with tons of documents to show and I believe we are doing our best to show convincingly that elections did not take place. It is left for him now to start to defend himself and INEC to proof that they conducted an election. I think that’s where we are.

Two weeks ago, the retrial tribunal dismissed the case of Peter Okocha against the governor and he said that he would appeal against the judgment. Do you people think you have a good case?
Yes, Chief Peter Okocha’s case was dismissed and I found it a bit curious because the tribunal held inter alia that Peter Okocha had a valid deputy and of course, the case was that of wrongful exclusion but suddenly, the issue on trial became nomination.

If nomination is the issue, then that is better determined by the political party itself. If the party submitted names of candidates, to say that they were not basing their judgment on the fact that certain sections which are mutually exclusive should be read together but when put in proper context, Sections 32 and 33 of the Electoral Act are mutually exclusive and not in congruence at all. And so they can’t be read together. I believe that the Appeal Court will decipher this and stick to the truth and Chief Okocha will have a very good chance to succeed. In any case, that is why we have an appellate court to determine issues of this nature.

This is the third year into this administration; why don’t you just let the situation be?
The problem is in the pursuit of justice. Time is of little consequence. It does not matter if it is one day but if a wrong has to be corrected and it can be corrected, it should. If we have to sweep it under the carpet, then it will happen again. But where people know that they can’t get away easily with the breach of our constitution and the abuse of the franchise of our people and that when such things are done, they are questioned until the last minute, then they will have to think properly before they undertake such ventures in future. But if we have to leave them, then they think that they can get away with it anytime and they will continue. So this is all part of the deterrence for the future; that we do not accept injustice and we will continue to speak and ask until we get justice.

Even recently, we still have cases of electoral nullifications. What do you make of these?
It makes a mockery of our electoral system. First and foremost, over 90 per cent of the elections conducted in 2007 were questioned in the election tribunal. That should not be. That, in fact, is an anomaly in itself. It shows that the entire process is incredible. It’s extremely questionable. We are human beings. We know when we lose and when we win and nobody who has lost genuinely would want to go and waste time in court. The fact that 90 per cent of the elections are questioned means that the election process is extremely flawed – the type of flaw that does not deserve to give it credibility, credence or recognition by any civilised or right thinking person.

The JTF sacked Gbaramatu Kingdom in Delta State, in retaliation for alleged killing of some soldiers. What is your take on that unwholesome drama?
The JTF carried out the bombardment but I am one that has never really liked the idea of this militancy as a means to political gains and frankly, the militancy has taken more of a criminal slant than quest for political gains in the recent years. I abhor that. I’ve never been happy with the situation where rapes, kidnappings, ransom and all of that have come into the question. And then, indiscriminate destruction of public utilities and production utilities. I’ve questioned all of these.

But having said that, I also believe that the reprisal attack meted on these so-called militants was quite excessive of what it should be. It was extremely high-handed and just destructive. It was not called for. It could have been resolved otherwise.

You must ask yourself the question: What are the causal factors of this militancy? How did it come about? Where did these arms come from in the first place? I don’t want to believe that the ordinary civilians could organise themselves to such an extent without political backing to be able to get arms to the level of sophistication we have been told; that has been described in the media. I don’t want to believe that they would have done so without some strong political backing and some godfathers behind them. And if you have looked at this very critically, you would notice that militancy has been on the upsurge from 2003. That was when we had thuggery of unprecedented nature in this country. So definitely, there is a very strong correlation between the level of militancy today and the past eight years.

Therefore, we must ask ourselves: why is it so? We left a military regime and we are supposed to be in a civilian democracy but militancy is on the increase when it should be on the decrease. Militancy is increasing with the more revenue we are getting into the states. That is very questionable and we must look into this. And it is because of this that I don’t believe that they are militants in quest of democratic or social gains.

How do you see the amnesty granted to militants in the Niger Delta region by the Federal Government?
You have to take that with a pinch of salt. We are granting blanket amnesty to people we don’t even know. We can’t put a face to these militants. Amnesty should be granted to people who have been convicted. You can persuade people to drop arms but to say that you have granted amnesty to faceless people, say something else. You grant amnesty to known criminals that have been apprehended.

So, that is why I look at the amnesty thing as another PDP joke. There is so much unseriousness in the way things are handled and some of these things have their cause in the fact that the Nigerian constitution is operated on the basis of a family matter. And that is why we have this kind of amnesty which is, in my view, designed to achieve very little or nothing.

Now that Henry Okah has been released, do you think there’ll be lasting peace in the region?
Henry Okah has been in incarceration for quite sometime and the militancy or hooliganism had been on the increase. I don’t think his release will have any hope whatsoever on the situation of things because the real criminals, I want to think, have not been apprehended and the truth of this matter has not been gotten to yet. These so-called militants are known by their sponsors, who I want to believe, are powerful political forces. But we could have stopped all of this militancy if they had allowed our people to vote; to elect for themselves the type of leaders that can bring sanity to those regions and then bring social justice and developmental gains to the region.

Rather, we have people who shot themselves into office. The youths know that their governor is unelected; that members of the House are unelected. They know that members of the House are semi-glorified thugs who shot themselves into offices. Then they go and continue to do these things because they think that is the way of life.

As a matter of fact, the Federal Government and PDP are responsible for all of this nonsense because they allowed the South-South to be turned into a permissive political environment where anything goes. How can we have some people lead in a state knowing that there was no election and results have been announced and then a government is put in place? What do you expect from the youths in that region? So why are we crying over spilled milk when collectively, we created the conditions for social insecurity and instability and now, we say it is militancy?

We have to now look at these things and be sincere with ourselves. What type of society do we want? Do we want a society where the law is supreme or a society where there is law of the jungle? We have hard decisions to make to correct these problems. And I think the leadership from the centre has a very long way to go in trying to achieve the type of society that we need. We will continue to have militancy and hooliganism as long as we continue to have political and social traits that are anti-social and unacceptable as normative values in our political system.

Leaders of the region have always accused the Federal Government of insincerity in handling the affairs of the Niger Delta, why can’t they dissuade the militants from further attacks?
Everything I said above encapsulates the fact that there is insincerity. You can’t have governors elected by the barrels of the gun and then expect the youths that carry those guns to drop them immediately after the elections and then start to behave as if everything is normal. This is a continuum of what happened in those elections where they shot themselves into offices, drove everybody away, and carried all the ballot boxes away and shot as many people as they could, went and thumb-printed ballot papers and released false results.

Nobody in the state voted and then they have a government in place. If that is how you elect government, what do you expect from the restive youths? That is the cause of this problem. Resolve this issue of non-elections and then you produce result. Allow the franchise of the people to speak. Allow them to choose their leaders and they will be the police of their society.

The attack on Atlas Cove in Lagos by MEND has been widely condemned while the group says it was symbolic and strategic. Is that not insincerity on the part of militants in the face of peace talks?
It is reprehensible that such a thing could happen now especially when we are talking about the amnesty; whether it is of substance or not. I don’t believe that what has happened now should happen at all. I have never believed that the quest for the better life must come about through militancy. The constitution of our country has made it clear, if what they are asking for is increased revenue, that it is not less than 13 per cent for derivation.

If you want more money, go and lobby. If some of these South-South governors use part of the money they are using to rig elections and defend phoney elections and ransom being paid to militants to lobby groups, they would be able to get what we are looking for. Instead, they get more money and they got poorer.
Some people are of the view that the real militants have not surrendered their arms and will not and that those who have so far surrendered are cheap criminals who think that government will reward them financially. How do you react to this?

This may be true but I have never believed that we have militants in the first place. I just believe that we have criminals who are using ransom, kidnap and what have you as a way of living and they disguise all of these kidnap activities by targeting oil installations.

If they indeed were after social progress, social development, political gains, why have you not asked members of the House of Assembly how they got there? Why have you not asked your local government chairman what they did with your money? Why have you not questioned your governors how they got into office without elections? If they indeed are militants, then they should have questioned these ills. After all, charity must begin at home but you sit down with iniquity in your own home and you expect the man from outside to believe that you are crying for social justice. There is a contradiction here and I think the weight of evidence is strongly against them and they must be condemned and that is rightly so.

Your friend, Major Saliba Mukoro has reconciled with Gen. Ibrahim Babangida in the aftermath of the April 1990 coup. When are you going to reconcile with Babangida or you will never?
I haven’t got any problems with Gen. Babangida. Our relationship is cordial. As to the reconciliation between himself and Major Mukoro, I have no comment.

Some people say that Major Mukoro’s reconciliation is a betrayal of his colleagues who were killed after the coup failed. What do you say?
Once again, I say, I have no comment.

But, people say that the so-called reconciliation is a political calculation for him to become governor of Delta State.

Well, the only thing I can say is that I do not understand how Babangida translates into the electorate of the people of Delta State. There is an electorate there. If you want to be governor, you go and campaign and do what is required to get support and vote. So, I can’t comment beyond that and that is because I know that Babangida does not vote in Delta State.

Some people have been campaigning for Gen. Babangida to contest the Presidency. Would you want to see him come back to power?
I think that Babangida will be the first person to tell you that age is not on his side at this stage. In any case, he is an adult. He is a Nigerian. He is above 18 years old. He can vote and be voted for. That decision is his and those who will vote for him. As for me, we wait and see.

Some critics say that the 7-point agenda of the government is a failure hence President Yar’Adua should narrow it down to one or two. What do you think?
The question is the 7-point agenda has not been communicated to anybody. It has no real meaning, substance and fruits on Nigerians. The agenda has not translated to better life. What then does it stand for?.
I only know that the House of Representatives was threatening to impeach Mr. President for lack of performance but that should have been expected because Yar’Adua did not take concrete steps to become President of Nigeria when he came to power.

If he had planned for it, sought the support of the Nigerian people for it and not this military conscription which the PDP gave to Nigeria, I’m sure he would have done a better job. I believe he is a decent man. I believe he loves this country. He is very patriotic. I believe that he is a good man and in fact, that he preaches the rule of law but all these do not equate the credentials of being the president of this country.

You need to know what you want to do and must be a hands-on-situation on this board. That is, you already have a clear-cut agenda of what you are going to do and how you are going to do it and the type of people. It is not just leadership by management. There has to be leadership by followership and I want to believe that the support for PDP and of Mr. President today, is dwindling. You have to lead by a strong conviction and followership must be committed, knowing what you stand for.

Is the re-branding Nigeria project necessary?
The people to re-brand Nigeria are not the people who destroyed Nigeria. To bring Prof. Dora Akunyili who of course, we know is a great achiever and think that just putting her beautiful face and voice there will change the concept of what Nigerians have of their society and their leaders is not true.

Charity must begin at home. We must lead by example. You want to re-brand Nigeria and what do we see? Look at what happened in Ekiti. You want to re-brand Nigeria? Look at the high handedness they used to dismantle the people, which is almost genocidal, in the Ijaw community. You want to re-brand Nigeria? This is 2009, you are supposed to have elections in two years time. There’s nothing that shows that we are departing from the past.

You want to re-brand Nigeria, election petitions are still all over the place. Where is the leadership coming from? The people to re-brand Nigeria are not leading yet. They are elsewhere. The PDP-led government from what we have seen can’t re-brand Nigeria. When Mr. President came with his rule of law mantra, I thought he could but of course, the forces in that party must have overwhelmed him and I don’t see the ruling party as capable of changing Nigeria for good.