https://www.nairaland.com/1362494/yoruba-origin-history-canaanland-connection/16#45818849

As a contribution to the thread above, I made the following comment.



One thing is that the Yoruba came from Ile Ife or Ife. Maybe the original Ife is in Asia, Europe or South America may be debatable but it is Ife. We have spoken many languages in the past, the penultimate ones being Akokoid languages still in Ondo and Northern Edo stateS. The language we now speak is of Egyptian origin adopted the way we are now adopting English, maybe 2 to 3 thousand years ago. Ptahhotep the most ancient recorded philosopher with a published work used that language. I will say a large number of Egyptians relocated back to where they consider home 2 to 3 thousand years ago and we adopted their language same way the Spanish, the French, Italian, Portuguese adopted Romance languages and Britain adopted a Germanic language. The exact same way. The early Jews were Egyptians. Moses, David, Miriam were Egyptian origin names and the ancient Jews spoke an ancient form of Yoruba language before adopting Phoenician which is the ancestor of Hebrew, Arabic and etc.


Alleluya obviously means same as Eriwoya which as someone pointed out, means 'Get out of the way if you are not an intiate!' Aya gbo Aya to Aya je means Anyone that gets out of the way will grow old, will grow right and will get answers. Alleluya, I believe is a variation of it learnt by the Hebrews in Kemitic Egypt and it was said in order to bring down the wall of Jericho or enter the town in exactly thesame way as the Ogboni would say it today. Ya means fall, give way or divide even in modern Yoruba. Some try to say the Ya in Alleluya means Yahweh but I do not believe that as Yahweh is from the Phoenician culture, meaning 'I am what I am' (used to shut up strangers asking the Phoenicians the name of their God) and the Jews were still Kemitic Egyptians as at the time they took Jericho.


Eriwoya is the Ogboni cry. Ogboni belongs to Obatala. Oba patapata lode Iranje! Iba o! I will posit that when the irunmales landed on Earth, Obatala was the first Olu Awo while Ogun Laakaye was the first Olu of Ife or Olofin Aye. The Ogboni was the only political party in Yoruba domains. A monarchy can not succeed without the Ogboni. The US is successful because the CIA operates like the Ogboni. The rule of the Ogboni. 'Igba omo ile ki e gbo o. Eni ba se ka ko ma lao, irinwo omo ile ki e gbo o, eni ba se ka ko mo la. Gbogbo omo ile ki e gbo o. E ma ma se ka ki e le la o. In an Ogboni assembly, if any resolution is unfair to anybody anywhere on Earth it will be rejected. So the Ogboni and the Eriwoya cry is as old as government in Yoruba land and Ife Ooyelagbo was inaugurated 10060 years ago as the first on Earth after Ife Oodaye was destroyed. Israel was inaugurated maybe around 4000 years ago by Egyptian monotheists who spoke an ancient Yoruba language hence the similarities in Eriwoya and Alleluyah as victory cries or sounds made when entering a city , Peter and Apata meaning rock. Daodu as David, Moremi as Miriam. I will say all were derived from Egypt and the Ife people later adopted an Egyptian language. That is where it ends. Judaism is descended from Pharaoh Akhenaten's religion in Kemitic Egypt that was banned after his demise. The Yoruba adopted the Kemitic Egyptian language 2 to 3 thousand years ago, hence the overlap. Our old language was Akokoid. Ife Ooyelagbo was in existence over 5 thousand years before Egypt and over 6000 years before Israel.

To buttress the position of those who offered the meaning of Eriwoya, I will add a saying 'Ile je irin ma je oje. Oje di Eriwo'
.
All Ogboni are omo ile ie children of the Earth. Iba ile o! Ile otete Langbua! Aterere kari aye. tooto. Je a gbo, Je a to. Ase. The Earth is the mother of all. Our Iya and we are all going to end up in its belly. We are Omo iya. So the Ogboni call themselves Omo ile or Omo iya. Everything rots when buried but Oje does not. Oje is lead. Iron rots, humans rots but Oje does not hence the saying 'Ile je irin ma joje. Oje di eriwo'. Which is saying that ile does not eat Oje and that Oje is Eriwo which is distinct from Omo ile. Oje represents the uninitiated who are not Omo ile. Oje di Eriwo. I think that seals the meaning of Eriwoya the Ogboni cry.








Reference


http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_jehovah01.htm





Oje di Eriwo


https://mobile.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1104537469606188&id=228355400557737&refid=17&ref=pymk&_ft_=top_level_post_id.1104537469606188%3Atl_objid.1104537469606188%3Athid.228355400557737%3A306061129499414%3A2%3A0%3A1464764399%3A-9093036757644877524&__tn__=%2As





Ancient Egyptian as a Yorubic language.


http://obamaandpeace..com/2010/03/oduduwa-and-yoruba-revolution-in-world.html

Any evidence that 'Kemitic' Egyptians used the word 'Alleluia' in their rituals?

Also, I do not know how you arrived at the conclusion that Yahweh is Phoenician in origin. The best theory right now is that Moses learnt of Yahweh from the Midianites or Kenites (whom evidence suggests were the original worshippers of Yahweh), and then introduced the god to the Hebrews. So that, by the time the Hebrews stood before the walls of Jericho, they already knew and worshipped Yahweh, thanks to Moses.

There is zero evidence for Phoenicians worshipping Yahweh. If you happen to have any, produce it.

Hallelujah (what we now spell as Alleluia) is quite easily broken down into it's component-words:

Hallel: praise in song/praise through song

Jah : pronounced Yah (Jahveh/Yahweh/God).

Hallelujah: Praise God (through songs)

AjaanaOka:
Also, I do not know how you arrived at the conclusion that Yahweh is Phoenician in origin. The best theory right now is that Moses learnt of Yahweh from the Midianites or Kenites (whom evidence suggests were the original worshippers of Yahweh), and then introduced the god to the Hebrews. So that, by the time the Hebrews stood before the walls of Jericho, they already knew and worshipped Yahweh, thanks to Moses.

There is zero evidence for Phoenicians worshipping Yahweh. If you happen to have any, produce it.

Hallelujah (what we now spell as Alleluia) is quite easily broken down into it's component-words:

Hallel: praise in song/praise through song

Jah : pronounced Yah (Jahveh/Yahweh/God).

Hallelujah: Praise God (through songs)

If people were coming from Egypt after spending centuries there, then they would have been speaking Egyptian. That is why Alleluyah definitely is Egyptian in origin. Moses is an Egyptian name same as Tutmoses. Yahweh is not a name but a Canaanite terminology to hide a deity's name. That is a Canaanite and not Egyptian in origin

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_jehovah01.htm

lawani:



If people were coming from Egypt after spending centuries there, then they would have been speaking Egyptian. That is why Alleluyah definitely is Egyptian in origin. Moses is an Egyptian name same as Tutmoses. Yahweh is not a name but a Canaanite terminology to hide a deity's name. That is a Canaanite and not Egyptian in origin

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/biblianazar/esp_biblianazar_jehovah01.htm

1. There are an unlimited number of Ancient Egyptian inscriptions and even books. Point to one them that says "Hallelujah" or "Alleluyah". You can't. No one can. Because it is quite simply not an Egyptian word.

2. Yes, I agree that Moses is a shortened version of an Egyptian name. (Scholars have never been quite satisfied with the etymology of 'Moses' offered in the Bible.) It wasn't necessarily 'Tutmoses/Thutmose'. It could have been any of a long list of Egyptian names that end with -mose/moses: Ahmose, Ramose etc. There is a very persuasive argument that a good number of Levite names (Aaron, Miriam, Phinehas, Hophni, etc) have Egyptian etymologies. So yes; the upper echelon of Hebrew society did have some elements of Egyptian influence, but you haven't been able to show what that has to do with 'Alleluia' or 'Hallelujah', since Alleluia does not occur in any Egyptian literature that anybody knows of.

3. Your last sentence is ambiguous. I don't quite get what you are trying to say there. But going back to your point about language. You forget that the Hebrews, after leaving Egypt, spent 40 years in Semitic-speaking Asia, South of Judah. There, they also incorporated a large number of Semitic nomads who had never been in Egypt to begin with. After 40 years, a significant percentage of the Egypt-born Hebrews were probably dead, and that generation had already given way to a new generation of Hebrews born in Asia.

The men who took down the walls of Jericho were therefore most likely to be predominantly Asian-born, and re-Semiticized nomads. They had also already taken up the cult of Yahweh and its rituals from their Semitic brothers in the region south of Judah (i.e., the Midians, Canaanites, etc).

4. In addition to this, there is no reason to assume that the Hebrews lost their Semitic language in Egypt. The Hebrews in Egypt had their own 'tribal' territory and maintained their own insular community (in Goshen, in the Nile Delta) where the essence of their ethnic identity, including their language could have survived, albeit influenced by Egyptian norms. After all, the Olukumi have been an enclave in Aniocha, Delta for hundreds of years and have not lost their tongue.

AjaanaOka:


1. There are an unlimited number of Ancient Egyptian inscriptions and even books. Point to one them that says "Hallelujah" or "Alleluyah". You can't. No one can. Because it is quite simply not an Egyptian word.

2. Yes, I agree that Moses is a shortened version of an Egyptian name. (Scholars have never been quite satisfied with the etymology of 'Moses' offered in the Bible.) It wasn't necessarily 'Tutmoses/Thutmose'. It could have been any of a long list of Egyptian names that end with -mose/moses: Ahmose, Ramose etc. There is a very persuasive argument that a good number of Levite names (Aaron, Miriam, Phinehas, Hophni, etc) have Egyptian etymologies. So yes; the upper echelon of Hebrew society did have some elements of Egyptian influence, but you haven't been able to show what that has to do with 'Alleluia' or 'Hallelujah', since Alleluia does not occur in any Egyptian literature that anybody knows of.

3. Your last sentence is ambiguous. I don't quite get what you are trying to say there. But going back to your point about language. You forget that the Hebrews, after leaving Egypt, spent 40 years in Semitic-speaking Asia, South of Judah. There, they also incorporated a large number of Semitic nomads who had never been in Egypt to begin with. After 40 years, a significant percentage of the Egypt-born Hebrews were probably dead, and that generation had already given way to a new generation of Hebrews born in Asia.

The men who took down the walls of Jericho were therefore most likely to be predominantly Asian-born, and re-Semiticized nomads. They had also already taken up the cult of Yahweh and its rituals from their Semitic brothers in the region south of Judah (i.e., the Midians, Canaanites, etc).

4. In addition to this, there is no reason to assume that the Hebrews lost their Semitic language in Egypt. The Hebrews in Egypt had their own 'tribal' territory and maintained their own insular community (in Goshen, in the Nile Delta) where the essence of their ethnic identity, including their language could have survived, albeit influenced by Egyptian norms. After all, the Olukumi have been an enclave in Aniocha, Delta for hundreds of years and have not lost their tongue.

If you read the link I provided, you would have seen where the authour explained the meaning of Yahweh as meaning mind your business. The example I always use is Germans call themselves Deutschlanders, the French call them Allemagne, the English call them Germans. So what are they? 'They are what they are' ie Yahweh or Jehovah. I hope you get it now? and it is Phoenician language not Egyptian. Yahweh is not a name. It is a Phoenician practice the Jews adopted after settling in Canaan.


I dont know how a people can manage to spend 40 years trekking from Egypt to Palestine. I dont understand that. You can not spend a year to trek from Johannesburg to Cairo. So it remains a mystery but even if they spent 40 years, the records in the Bible does not show them absorbing other people, so it is reasonable to say they retained their language. Then the language Abraham spoke was Sumerian, closest relative is Tamil in India today and it was still used in South Arabia as at 1000AD. Possibly Jacob understood the language but definitely as a language used at home and not for business, on moving to Egypt, it would have been lost within 50 years as the Hebrews worked for the Egyptians and were physically thesame as them since Moses was able to pass for an Egyptian. You can not compare them to Olukunmis who are sovereign on their own land and were not servants to others or colonised by others. The Hebrews were under the Egyptians, all of them worked for Egyptians everyday and it is safe to assume they used thesame lingua franca. Sumerian would have been lost. There were many languages in the area but Egypt which spoke an ancient Yoruba language was the US of the area back then and their language would have dominated. It was later replaced by the language of the Phoenicians whom the Egyptians called Punt but that was centuries after the Hebrews settled in Canaan which was historically part of Egypt as at the time. My own theory is that the Hebrews were expelled from Egypt in a way but given that place to settle under Egypt's protection as compensation.

lawani:



If you read the link I provided, you would have seen where the authour explained the meaning of Yahweh as meaning mind your business. The example I always use is Germans call themselves Deutschlanders, the French call them Allemagne, the English call them Germans. So what are they? 'They are what they are' ie Yahweh or Jehovah. I hope you get it now? and it is Phoenician language not Egyptian. Yahweh is not a name. It is a Phoenician practice the Jews adopted after settling in Canaan.

I did check out the link. I was already familiar with the major points raised in the article: about how the whole Exodus story may not be historical truth; about how Yahweh may have been worshipped together with a consort, the goddess Ashtaroth; about how Yahweh means "I AM" or "I exist" in Hebrew. There is no where in the article where any connection was made between Yahweh and the Phoenicians, so I'll still say I don't know what you're talking about there.

I am sensing that your point here is that the Hebrews borrowed their language from the Phoenicians. It is true that there was a great deal of cultural overlapping there. The Phoenicians, the Hebrews, the Edomites, the Moabites all spoke dialects of the same language, and could communicate quite effectively among themselves. But to regard the Phoenicians as the originator of the language that these people shared is just pure guesswork on your part. They were simply all West Semitic people and shared many things in common.

I dont know how a people can manage to spend 40 years trekking from Egypt to Palestine. I dont understand that. You can not spend a year to trek from Johannesburg to Cairo. So it remains a mystery but even if they spent 40 years, the records in the Bible does not show them absorbing other people, so it is reasonable to say they retained their language.

It's not like they left Egypt and just sped straight to Palestine. If you read Exodus, Numbers and Deuteronomy closely, you'll realise there were long stretches of time (years, decades even) in which the Israelites just set up camp and lived in tents out in the wilderness. Some of their first attempts to take Palestine failed. Palestine was, after all, already well-settled and dotted with well-fortified cities. So the Hebrews lived in camps south of Palestine and bid their time. In the meantime they had extensive contact with the Semitic nomads already in the wilderness, such as the Midianites, Moses' in-laws, as well as some Edomite tribes.

Also, the Bible does drop strong hints that the Israelites absorbed other people. Reading through Exodus and Numbers, you encounter references to 'a mixed multitude' among the Israelites. Some of them had left Egypt with the Israelites, probably one of the many Semitic nomad populations that were constantly going in and out of Egypt. Others were encountered in the wilderness. Caleb, one of the spies sent to spy out the land of Canaan actually came from one of the absorbed populations, the Kenizzites an Edomite tribe absorbed into the Israelite tribe of Judah.

Then the language Abraham spoke was Sumerian, closest relative is Tamil in India today and it was still used in South Arabia as at 1000AD. Possibly Jacob understood the language but definitely as a language used at home and not for business, on moving to Egypt, it would have been lost within 50 years as the Hebrews worked for the Egyptians and were physically thesame as them since Moses was able to pass for an Egyptian.

Who told you Abraham spoke Sumerian? Abraham was clearly a nomadic Semite. The Bible called him 'a wandering Aramaen' and 'a Hebrew'. The Aramaens were a Semitic people living roughly in what is now northern Israel and Syria. 'Hebrew' or 'Habiru' was once a generic term for Semitic nomads before it came to solely designate the Israelites. Abraham's primary language therefore must have been a Semitic language, one from which the language of the Israelites descended. If he spoke Sumerian, then it must have been as a second language.

But I have reason to doubt that he could have spoken Sumerian at all. Abraham is estimated to have lived in Sumer around 1850 BC. At that time, Semites like the Amorites were in charge in Sumer, and there Semitic language had already displaced Sumerian as the spoken language of the ordinary people. Sumerian only survived as a minor language spoken here and there in tiny pockets.

So in all probability, the Israelites went into Egypt already speaking a Semitic language and not Sumerian.

You can canot compare them to Olukunmis who are sovereign on their own land and were not servants to others or colonised by others. The Hebrews were under the Egyptians, all of them worked for Egyptians everyday and it is safe to assume they used thesame lingua franca.

The Olukunmi resembled the Hebrews in Egypt in one key aspect: they lived in their own territory, their own tribal land if you will - which was in the Nile Delta. It is true that unlike the Olukunmi, they were a subject people who slaved for their masters. You could compare the Hebrews in Egypt to Bantus in Apartheid South Africa. Like the Hebrews in Egypt, the Bantus had their own tribal territories (Bantustans). Like the Hebrews, the Bantus had to leave their tribal lands to go work (or slave) in the white areas, under white masters - doing all sorts of lowly work on construction sites and mines, etc. The Bantus learnt Afrikaans and English in order to communicate with their masters, but kept their ties with their own language and culture. I fail to see how the Israelites in Egypt could not have been able to do exactly the same.

If the Hebrews lived on Egyptian plantations, like African slaves in the Americas, it would be easier to see how they could have lost their language. But they lived together in their own communities, like the Bantus in their Bantustans. They COULD have - and probably did - keep their language.

Sumerian would have been lost. There were many languages in the area but Egypt which spoke an ancient Yoruba language was the US of the area back then and their language would have dominated. It was later replaced by the language of the Phoenicians whom the Egyptians called Punt but that was centuries after the Hebrews settled in Canaan which was historically part of Egypt as at the time. My own theory is that the Hebrews were expelled from Egypt in a way but given that place to settle under Egypt's protection as compensation.

I just want to point out here that Punt was not Phoenicia, but somewhere in Africa south of Egypt. Probably the Somali Coast. As for Egypt speaking an ancient variant of Yoruba.... LOL.

There is a well known Ptahhotep saying rendered in modern letters from the hieroglyphics Bu nfr du bw bn meaning where we loved became an evil place. In Yoruba today, it is Ibi a fe di ibi bi. You dont need too much sense to know that Ptahhotep spoke Yoruba. I think you have heard Fela's song Suegbe Pako? In Ptahhotep's language Sueg means fool as rendered in modern letters. Ika means wicked, Ibudo means dwelling place, lareja means knowledge. So more than half of modeRn Yoruba vocab was used in exactly same way in Egypt 5 thousand years ago. So LOL as much as you want, it means you have abandoned the use of your common sense and that is wrong.


The languages referred to as Semitic languages today are descended from Phoenician whom the Egyptians called Punt. Abraham came from Ur of the Chaldees a Sumerian city. Not debateable and they spoke Sumerian. He can not infact be called a Semite in the modern sense. South Arabia took up that id relatively recently. Do you know the meaning of nomad? It means you are not attached to land, you continue roaming with cattle till you die. That is a nomad. Maiduguri to Jos to Ilorin to Ibadan to Lagos to Calabar to Potiskum to Maiduguri again to Niamey and all over again till you die but Abraham was not like that. Ur of the Chaldees was a bronze age sedentary culture. Abraham's God asked him to exile himself from the place and go to a new land that the God will show him. Abraham believed his God destroyed the Earth with flood while his King Nimrod believed the God who did such must be arrested and executed and Abraham's father Terah worked for Nimrod according to Jewish accounts. On account of this and to protect his life, he left Sumeria and settled in Palestine where he was buried. He was a nomad for a short term but he came from a sedentary culture. His descendants up to Jacob were semi nomadic but not like the Nigerian Fulani. Palestine is a plain good for grazing and they never left the place. They settled in Egypt, a small number of them. 12 brothers and their wives, father, mother and workers, then children. At most 200 people. A small tribe and Egypt was in millions back then. So to think they spoke Sumerian as lingua franca outside their home in that area, so far from Sumeria is not academic in my opinion. All that area used the Egyptian language as lingua franca alongside any other language of theirs and any family speaking Sumerian at all would do so mainly to themselves at home and to visitors from Sumeria. On passing into Egypt and spending ten generations with thousands of Egyptians and etc joining them, they would have become a people speaking an ancient Yoruba language, the language of Egypt. They were Egyptians and Judaism's monotheism is Egyptian in origin not Sumerian where all had Guardian deities like Abraham as did all original Earthlings.


The Exodus still remains a mystery but I believe Egypt aided them to set up the first state of Israel as Persia aided them to set up the second and Britain aided them to set up this current one. That is my reasoning. Canaan was part of the Egyptian empire as at the time in history outside the Bible because there is history outside the Bible. Outside the Bible Canaan is Phoenicia. Persia is the Achaeminid empire and etc. The names in the Bible are Hebrew names.


Due to reasons hard to understand, there were thousands of languages in that area in the past, totally unrelated languages and they were not Semitic languages and the people were not Semitic. They would today be described as pagans. They were awake people. Not followers. Research the language of Sumer from where Abraham came. It was first considered a total isolate but now some researchers say it is an ancestor of Indian Tamil. Tamil is spoken today by over 70 million people in India while Sumerian has been lost to Arabic a Semitic language.


This was the language of South Arabia during Abraham's time

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_language

Lemme make something clear to you. Go to the British isles, you have various languages over short distances: They are Celtic languages mutually unintelligible. Come to Nigeria, Edoid languages, Nupoid languages are mutually unintelligible. Totally different languages over a short distance, though related. What it means is that they have lived separately without interaction for thousands of years after starting off together. On the other hand. Yoruboid languages are mutually intelligible, Igboid languages are mutually intelligible. Those two languages are relatively new languages because their dialects are still thesame YEAI Yoruba Edo Akoko Igbo were one in the past but are now different groups. Akoko is the smallest but just as important. Spoken in Ondo and Edo. Mutually unintelligible, then Edoid, mutually unintelligible in Edo, Delta, Bayelsa. Igboid and Yoruboid are mutually intelligible pointing to a recent introduction.


So Semitic languages are many and are very similar like Aramaic, Hebrew, Arabic, pointing to a recent introduction. You may want to say they are all Semites but we know that the first important state to use a Semitic language was Phoenicia and they were seafarers travelling all over. So it is reasonable to say the language came from them just like the Romance languages came from Rome. Phoenicia is Canaan is Carthage. So the Phoenicians may have come from anywhere but their hqs were places like Carthage, Tyre and etc. North Africa and Palestine. The people that most represent them today may be the Lebanese. It is their language. Not the language of South Arabia. Sumerian is the language of South Arabian. Arabic just like Hebrew and Aramaic is a descendant of Phoenician that came from South Arabic. Just like French is a descendant of Latin that came from France. France's original language is not French. They speak French because they were conquered by Rome. Representative of Rome today are the Italians. Representative of Phoenicians are the Lebanese but before all those were the Egyptians. Who best represents the Egyptians? I would say the Yoruba people not the present people of Egypt. If a Pharaoh wakes up today, he will communicate more easily with a Yoruboid speaker than with anyone. Though gene wise, it will not be so just like the British are Celts who speak a Germanic language. If they were the only speakers of a Germanic language left with the ancient Germans disappeared, then they will be the closest representative or relative of ancient Germans today. The British are around 30 percent Germanic by DNA