It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error.

ShiaMuslim:
Ibn Taymiyyah gang of perverts are having a jamboree in this thread. well, obviously Islam is not for superficial thinkers, or people who dont think at all. people who have made terrorism their religion. let me think for you a little. is there any wisdom in permitting sex change? yes, there are many good reasons for it to be permitted. Ibn Taymiyyah's gang are misquoting the Holy Quran.
there are many reason for sex change especially in modern times with advance medical practice. there are people born with DEFECTS. those defects are not what you can describe as "God's creation" or "God's decision". they are medical conditions. many of you know of hermaphrodites. what do you do to them? do you leave a woman with b r e a s t s to continue having a p e n i s hanging between her legs? or a man to continue having b o o b s like women? what do you do? what of males who have hormonal imbalances, and medical examination proves that he has more of the female than the male hormones?
the permission of sex change is not aimed at altering the "normal" but rectifying already existing medical problems or defects (which could have been as a result of environmental factors) that beg for solutions. of course, the look at these people would make it all seem "abnormal". but these are problems in society that cannot be escaped. same thing with homosexuality. you can bring all the laws and punishment to ban it, but what is the solution to it? in Iran, if a man is effeminate and has more female hormones than male hormones, and no therapy or prayer can cure him, except surgery, it is allowed. ipeople who are pretenders are the worse. look deep into your villages, your communities, your states, etc. and you will find them plagued with different vices. yet you want to lecture a scientifically and medically fast developing country like Iran. please take panadol for your own headache.
funnily, people with little brains are quick to raise the issue of mut'ah. well, whatever you say about mutah, remember that Sunnis are of the view that at a point in time the Prophet (s) approved of mutah and your highly esteemed sahabah were among those who practiced it before it was allegedly "banned" (by Umar). (in fact as per Sunni hadiths, the Prophet purportedly repeatedly banned and allowed it up to six times and in six different occasions). follow Islam, not your desires and emotions. you have Jihadun Nikah, Misyar and every innovation (bid'ah) and yet your headache and standard of morality is only "high" when your put on your fake morality lenses to "judge" iran or the Shia. clowns!

MrOlai:

Agent of shaytan! Always looking for an excuse to defend their evils!
On the issue of sex change, it completely haram in Islam! It is Allah(SWT) in His will and wisdom that makes a person either a male or a female. Nobody has the right before Allah(SWT) to change the sex of a person for whatever reason! There are men who are just like women in terms of thinking, attitude, physique, etc. That does not make them women! Also, there are women who are just like men in terms of thinking, attitude, physique, etc. Some women are naturally stronger than their male counterparts in terms of virtually everything. In fact, some women have higher amount of testosterone(male hormone) in their bodies and consequently, they are hairy and often grow beards! Does that make them real men?
On the issue of hermaphrodites, that is clearly an abnormal medical condition. It is exceptionally different from what shia are doing in Iran courtesy of the evil fatwa from your Ayatollah Khomeini. Medicine as a discipline is welcomed in Islam only to correct an anormaly, not to change Allah's creation.
On the issue of Homosexuality, it is a shear madness! The Prophet(SAW) recommends death penalty for the homosexuals. Nobody is born homosexual! I repeat nobody is born homosexual! Homosexuals give such a silly excuse just for them to be allowed to continue with the madness. Homosexuality is nurture and not nature. People acquire homosexuality through practice with time.
In Psychology, it is established that if a person repeats an act frequently enough, then, such an act becomes his habit! Bestiality is being gradually permitted in some parts of the world now! A time will come when those people having sex with animals will claim that they are born like that! Allah(SWT) destroyed the people of Lut because of homosexuality.
You shia people are among the people spreading homosexuality on the land! How?
- Your scholars allow sodomy with a woman(having sex with a woman through her anus).
- Your scholars gave fatwa allowing Sex Change.
- Prophet(SAW) gave severe punishments for the homosexuals; your scholars said NO!
- Your scholars consider Bestiality(having sex with animals) as Makruh and not Haram! Meanwhile the Prophet(SAW) said if anybody is caught having sex with an animal, both the person and the animal should be killed!
- You scholar, Ayatollah Khomeini, gave fatwa permitting zina/mut'ah sex even with prostitutes
And many more...
Your shia people are abuse to Islam(except the ignorant ones amongst you)! Even some non-muslims might be better than you before Allah(SWT)! Some Christians I know would not allow sodomy of a woman, they would not allow Sex Change, they hate homosexuality with passion; they would be ready to kill anybody that has sex with animal! These are non-muslims!
The terrible nature of shiism is the reason why Scholars of Islam consider you shia kufar!
Anybody Allah(SWT) created a man would always be a man and anybody Allah(SWT) created a woman would always be a woman! This is a fact even in Medicine! Ask the Doctors! This is a fact they might not tell the trangenders! I pray Allah(SWT) in His mercy to have mercy on the soul of your scholar, Ayatollah Khomeini, for all the evils he has created on the surface of the Earth!

"i, MrOlai of nairaland, have no solutions to humanity's problems but i feel talk is free, and lying is cheap and to defend my blindness, sectarian hatred, ignorance and fanaticism i must talk and lie. therefore i must REPLY and talk as if i know about issues better left for mature and learned minds to discuss, even though i know not. please i am DUMB. i just want to reply".

ShiaMuslim:

you sound mad...you are stupid...

ShiaMuslim:

please show where any of our scholars said categorically that "bestiality or s e x with animals" is not haram. not what to do to the person or the animal if people are caught in the act. (there is a difference). but that the act itself is not haram. expose your ignorance.
[/b]

sino:
Mr. ShiaMuslim, I want to believe you watched the videos, and I want to also believe that Ayatollah Khomeini was trying to solve one of humanity's problems with his fatwa, which I would say is a good idea i.e solving humanity's problems. Be that as it may, in one of the videos, one of the transgender was said to have been tested, and found to be 100% male, but still went ahead to go for a sex change. Also these set of people are not really recognized in their communities, they are victimized, shunned and humiliated. They have regretted going for a sex change, and it seems that the problems these fatwa is causing, is far greater than what it was trying to solve in the first instance. From the foregoing, wouldn't it be appropriate if such fatwa is reviewed, and possibly expunged for a more humane, and Islamicaly legitimate verdict for these kinds of humanity's problems?!

ShiaMuslim:


At least you are making some sense for the first time and you are not lying.

In every law, there are people who try to beat the gun and abuse the intent of the law. If you look at Islamic practices, you can find everyone that has been exploited for the wrong purpose by mischievous people.

Secondly, to us, the sharia is not holy. The sharia was not revealed. The Quran is holy. The sharia is based on interpretation of laws by fallible scholars, via the Quran and authentic Hadith, be they Sunni or Shia scholars. Those scholars are neither holy/infallible imams of the Ahlul Bayt (as) nor prophets. So these laws can be reviewed, annulled or adjusted if the bad is weighted to be more than the good. I'd leave that for the Iranians and their leaders/scholars to decide for themselves and what is good for them in sex change.

Further it is very possible to find another Shia ayatollah who views the permission by Ayatollah Khomeini on sex change to be invalid and haram. In Shia Islam, our scholars are mujtahids. The concept of ijtihad did not stop as it stopped in Sunnism with the four scholars of the four Sunni schools of thought. That is why in Shia Islam, the highest scholars can and are permitted to hold different views and opinions in interpretation. That will keep the religion fresh, dynamic, for all times and progressive. So there is no question about whether the fatwa of Ayatollah Khomeini can be wrong. It can. That is why in Shia Islam, based on the open concept of ijtihad among the highest scholars (marjaiyyah) who issue fatwas, the ordinary Shia (laity) can choose any among the 80 to 100 of them in the world to follow. You as a Shia can follow any of these scholars opinion and interpretation of Islamic laws and practices and you can also disagree with any of them. The concept of the marjaiyyah is for the laity to choose one of the ayatollahs and make him his source for emulation, as Sunnis follow one of the founders of the four Sunni schools only, and those four have died about a thousand years ago. We follow scholars that must be alive in terms of marjaiyyah or source of emulation called Taqlid. This means our scholars are not infallible and we accept criticism and improvement, as far as the criticism is of their legal opinion and interpretation and not of the fundamentals of the religion expressed unequivocally in the Holy Quran or the authentic Hadith.

So when your fellows want to turn this thread into a bashing exercise of Shia and they want to use it as launch pad to lie and talk nonsense, I simply laugh at what you do not know. You guys are used to anyone who knows some verses of the Quran and had memorized few fatwas with a long beard as worthy of being a scholar. And usually their views are put on par with the Quran and disagreeing with them can lead to Takfir. That's why you see Wahhabis can kill even themselves. Shia on the other hand do not go to such extremes and we view differences of opinions as healthy for our faith and progress as Muslims. And only the marjaiyyah-scholars with the title of ayatollah- that can issue fatwa for Shia. Not even our sheikhs issue fatwa!

In this way we are more organized and our scholars cannot become fatwa machines or government employees calling themselves muftis who make political fatwas to serve governments or tyrants as witnessed many times in the Sunni countries or even by terrorist groups. That is also why I'm Shia Islam not anyone calling himself scholar can call for jihad. Our scholarly system is based on the Imamate. When the ghaibatul kubrah of the 12th Imam (as) started, we are instructed to follow the fuqaha (plural of faqih). The scholar with title of ayatollah is the highest faqih we follow.the marjaiyyah gets its legitimacy from the Imamate and learning in the hawza and not through appointment.the Imamate is a divine station like prophethood.it is a reflection and successorship of prophethood. And both gain legitimacy from Allah (swt).

Both prophethood and Imamate are understood as political and spiritual leadership. The Sunni caliphate on the other hand doesn't get legitimacy from prophethood because you believe the Prophet left without any successor or system to choose a caliph and he left it for the people. Caliphate gets legitimacy from the people. And the Quran says Allah's choice is above ours and the Prophet has more right over us than we have over ourselves since the Shia believe the Prophet appointed a successor. We obey secular authorities on taqiyyah and for the sake of peace where do not have numbers and power (means) for the establishment of Islamic law. We were created on earth as khulafa of Allah and all authority must obey Allah and follow the line of prophethood and imamate to have divine approval/legitimacy for us to listen to and abide by. For a scholar to become an ayatollah or marja taqlid who can issue fatwa, he must have the approval of two existing and living ayatollahs in the hawza ilmiyyah (Islamic seminary in Qom or Najaf, the highest center of Shia learning equivalent to al azhar for Sunnis).

sino:

I have always been reasonable, and even with you people's outright dissimulation and deceits, I still maintain my open-mindedness and reasonableness in addressing all of the (sometimes) illogical attacks you people bring forth on a regular basis.
Anyway, what I intend to establish here is the problems associated with the strange fatwa of Khomeini, which you seem not to be against from your submissions thus far (you may correct me if I'm wrong).

Now what I would have expected, with such evidences which clearly shows the dangers and problems this fatwa in question portends, is a strong proof against the videos, such as what the fatwa entails, and how people had abused it, or other Ayatollahs going against this fatwa as not Islamic.

For the avoidance of doubt, it is haram to change what Allah has created, even drawing a tattoo isn't allowed or giving yourself a gap-tooth to look more beautiful etc. Well, perhaps such restrictions do not exist in your books, but we know for sure Allah (SWT) stated clearly in the Qur'an: "Verily, We have created man in the best of stature (image)" (Q95:4).

This fatwa is problematic, I wonder how comfortable anyone can be with a man, who has turned to a woman or vice versa. This process defies nature, even with the surgery, the new transgender cannot function appropriately i.e the man who turned woman cannot ovulate, while the woman turned man cannot produce sperm. One would then ask, what is the essence of sex change in the first place? What problems was it trying to solve? Is this sex change about hating your body or as a result of thoughts brought about by society, especially, the west? Are there alternative solutions?!

If an individual has both sex organs, then that is a different case entirely, it is not a case of sex change, but rather correcting an anomaly, which is reasonable. This cannot be used as an excuse for allowing sex change.

If you do have one sex organ, a male or a female, that is what Allah (SWT) wants you to be. If a man or woman feels strange in his/her own body, then such people need a psychiatrist, not surgery to change their body to fit their desires, for a man can wake up tomorrow, and wants to be a bird! Yeah! to fly and fly away!

Isn't it funny how you guys can paint Salafist/Wahabist with the same brush being terrorists and takfiris, Saudi Arabia the home and supporters of these terrorists etc. But when the same is said about your sect and Iran, you all become philosophical, that is hypocrisy if you do not know.

ShiaMuslim:
in Iran, there is much opposition to homosexuality. i believe this fatwa was made on the basis that it is a corrective measure to homosexuality; either to dissuade young people from homosexuality, or to correct it. if you are a man and you want to sleep with another man, then change your sex. if you wont change your sex, then do not sleep with the same sex. it sounds like a deterrent.

sino:
@ShiaMuslim
The concept of Ijtihad is fully understood in Sunnism, and there happens to be adequate materials in regards to this. That you are indifferent to this issue is unsettling, saying just 300 out of the whole population is insignificant shows your level of empathy to your fellow man, not to even talk of to your fellow Muslim brother. So if just one person in your hood is made to suffer, you are indifferent right, it is just one person right?! Even for the fact that it is Iran, and they are shi'ah, I do feel empathy for them, I believe they were ill informed and were somewhat coerced into making such a choice by the fatwa.
In sunni, such a fatwa would have been addressed by scholars and properly put in its right place, i.e in the trash. But it seems your Ayatollahs can get away with anything, no one dares ask questions...
Having two heads is an anomaly, and science being able to provide a machine to fly with, is quite different from growing wings out of my back...If Allah (SWT) want's human beings to fly, he would have created us with wings. Do you believe in scientist more than Allah (SWT)? Are you saying Allah (SWT) didn't know what he created and why he created us so?! (Subhanallah!)
If what one of your highest religious personality says does not concern you as a member of that religion, you might as well say you do not belong to the religion in the first place.
The above reason is not a corrective measure and deterrent to homosexuality, and it is not funny either. It reminds me of a group of people who want to eat their cakes and have it, or people looking for ways to bend the rules, something peculiar to people who lack faith, people when Allah (SWT) forbids something, they look for ways to still do that which is forbidden, by calling it other names or changing its form, like calling usury, business, and now homosexuality, by transgender/sex change, I also know you do not frown at anal intercourse...Well what can I say, we are truly in the end times...
May Allah (SWT) safeguard us. Ameen.

ShiaMuslim:


your opinions and those of mine really do not matter as to the reasons the Iranians allow this. but now you are putting words into my mouth and adding pepper and maggi to the story, as the sole purpose of this thread was for that. i fail to see how i lack empathy over the decision someone make to change his sex. if a fatwa says the act is not forbidden, it may still be deemed makruh, then how is that coercion? no one send you and you choose to do it. save your fake sympathy. Shias get massacred weekly and you have not shown that sympathy. i havent read a post or thread of yours showing us your sympathy. our scholars are custodians of our faith. whatever decisions they reach is best known to Allah and to them. however, on such an issue which is not binding upon me, and scholars can differ on and it does not affect me anyhow, i am indifferent.

sino:

Oga Ade! I did not put words in your mouth, I only responded to your statement of "300 being insignificant" accordingly. I used somewhat coerced, you even opined that the basis of this fatwa was due to the strict law on homosexuals in Iran, and if you had watched the videos, one of them actually said he wouldn't have gone for the sex change, there was even an argument in the video number 4 about the fatwa. The fatwa was the propelling force to go ahead with the surgery, if the fatwa wasn't there, these guys would still be guys!
Anyways, I pray innocent people would understand Islam more and not fall into this horrible trap called fatwa, people with homosexual tendencies or other issues pertaining to their sex and sexuality should rather go to a psychiatrist and seek professional help, instead of compounding their woes...

ShiaMuslim:
Maybe now the topic can be changed to "the Tragedy of Sex Change in Nigeria" after reading the below!!!! As if the thing is unique to Iran

"ANOTHER YORUBA MAN TRANSFORMS TO WOMAN (see unbelievable photos) "

https://www.naij.com/904730-another-yoruba-man-transforms-woman-see-unbelievable-photos.html

usba:
u

Sir, if I got you right Iran gets it's interpretation of shariah from the acts of any random Yoruba man on the streets?

My oga, you never see anything o. He even claimed sex-change is deterrent against homosexuality.

Demmzy15:
My oga, you never see anything o. He even claimed sex-change is deterrent against homosexuality.

MrOlai:


Agent of shaytan! Always looking for an excuse to defend their evils!

On the issue of sex change, it completely haram in Islam! It is Allah(SWT) in His will and wisdom that makes a person either a male or a female. Nobody has the right before Allah(SWT) to change the sex of a person for whatever reason! There are men who are just like women in terms of thinking, attitude, physique, etc. That does not make them women! Also, there are women who are just like men in terms of thinking, attitude, physique, etc. Some women are naturally stronger than their male counterparts in terms of virtually everything. In fact, some women have higher amount of testosterone(male hormone) in their bodies and consequently, they are hairy and often grow beards! Does that make them real men?

On the issue of hermaphrodites, that is clearly an abnormal medical condition. It is exceptionally different from what shia are doing in Iran courtesy of the evil fatwa from your Ayatollah Khomeini. Medicine as a discipline is welcomed in Islam only to correct an anomaly, not to change Allah's creation.

On the issue of Homosexuality, it is a sheer madness! The Prophet(SAW) recommends death penalty for the homosexuals. Nobody is born homosexual! I repeat nobody is born homosexual! Homosexuals give such a silly excuse just for them to be allowed to continue with the madness. Homosexuality is nurture and not nature. People acquire homosexuality through practice with time.

In Psychology, it is established that if a person repeats an act frequently enough, then, such an act becomes his habit! Bestiality is being gradually permitted in some parts of the world now! A time will come when those people having sex with animals will claim that they are born like that! Allah(SWT) destroyed the people of Lut because of homosexuality.

You shia people are among the people spreading homosexuality on the land! How?
- Your scholars allow sodomy with a woman(having sex with a woman through her anus).
- Your scholars gave fatwa allowing Sex Change.
- Prophet(SAW) gave severe punishments for the zoophiles; your scholars said NO!
- Your scholars consider Bestiality(having sex with animals) as Makruh and not Haram! Meanwhile the Prophet(SAW) said if anybody is caught having sex with an animal, both the person and the animal should be killed!
- You scholar, Ayatollah Khomeini, gave fatwa permitting zina/mut'ah sex even with prostitutes
And many more...

Your shia people are abuse to Islam(except the ignorant ones amongst you)! Even some non-muslims might be better than you before Allah(SWT)! Some Christians I know would not allow sodomy of a woman, they would not allow Sex Change, they hate homosexuality with passion; they would be ready to kill anybody that has sex with animal! These are non-muslims!

The terrible nature of shiism is the reason why Scholars of Islam consider you shia kufar!

Anybody Allah(SWT) created a man would always be a man and anybody Allah(SWT) created a woman would always be a woman! This is a fact even in Medicine! Ask the Doctors! This is a fact they might not tell the trangenders! I pray Allah(SWT) in His mercy to have mercy on the soul of your scholar, Ayatollah Khomeini, for all the evils he has created on the surface of the Earth!

vedaxcool:
^^^


Sharap and try comprehending a second time.

tintingz:
In a sectarian sect?

Kaytixy:
Tintinz ur foolishness can't be solved here.