Women! Women! Women! Your ability to put fantasy above fact is truly astounding. But don't take my word for it. Please read:

Sweden and the other Nordic nations always seem to lead the rankings of the world’s best countries for women. (Canada is lucky to crack the top 20.) So they’re an ideal laboratory for finding out what women really want. What choices will women make when the playing field is as level as social policy can make it?



I’m afraid the answers will disappoint a lot of people. That includes Sheryl Sandberg, the famous author of Lean In , who wrote, “A truly equal world would be one where women ran half our countries and companies, and men ran half our homes."




The trouble is that the world’s most liberated women aren’t leaning in – in fact, many are leaning back. They work fewer hours and make less money than men, just as Canadian women do. In fact, Swedish women are much more likely to have part-time jobs and far less likely to hold top managerial positions or be CEOs. On top of that, Scandinavian labour markets are the most gender-segregated in the developed world.

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/do-women-really-have-it-better-in-sweden/article15552596/



There is tons of research to support this assertion. TONS!!! The natural order always prevails. But, hey, feel free to scapegoat the evil patriarchy. Picture me saying that like a horror movie villian with enlarged eyeballs. .

Oh, to be in Sweden, a feminist paradise on Earth! Gender equality is baked into the nation’s DNA. Swedish women have advantages we can only only dream of – free universal child care, for example. Mothers and fathers get 480 (!) days of parental leave. An extensive welfare system makes it easy to balance work and family life.



The result is that nearly 80 per cent of Swedish mothers are in the work force. (In the United States and Canada, it’s about 73 per cent.) Women also make up 45 per cent of Sweden’s parliament, the Riksdag.



The country is zealously tearing down the barriers that hold women back. Preschools go to extraordinary lengths to encourage non-gendered play. One school is experimenting with a gender-neutral pronoun, “hen,” so that kids will think of one another not as boys or girls but as “buddies.” Gender-neutral toy catalogues show boys playing with dolls and girls playing with water guns. Some Swedish movie theatres have introduced a gender rating for films, called the Bechdel test. (To pass, a movie needs to have at least two female characters who talk to each other about something other than a man.)

Women do make up 25 per cent of Swedish corporate boards, but only because of quotas. The greatest concentration of senior managers, CEOs and other highly paid power women isn’t in Scandinavia. It’s here in North America, where working women’s lives are much tougher.



It turns out that all these family-friendly policies have an unintended impact on the gender gap, as Kay Hymowitz and many others have noted . By making it easy for women to drop out of the work force and work shorter hours, they make it harder for women to progress in their careers. Swedish men have these options too, but they don’t take them. So women don’t advance as far as men. And they are also considered less desirable by corporate employers who need people on the job 24/7.



In any event, only a small proportion of Nordic women choose to work as managers and professionals. Most choose lower-paid, highly gender-segregated work. As Alison Wolf has written in her excellent book The XX Factor , Scandinavian countries “hold the record for gender segregation because they have gone the furthest in outsourcing traditional female activities and turning unpaid home-based ‘caring’ into formal employment.”

In any event, only a small proportion of Nordic women choose to work as managers and professionals. Most choose lower-paid, highly gender-segregated work. As Alison Wolf has written in her excellent book The XX Factor , Scandinavian countries “hold the record for gender segregation because they have gone the furthest in outsourcing traditional female activities and turning unpaid home-based ‘caring’ into formal employment.”



Despite vigorous efforts to stamp out gender stereotyping, most Swedish girls would still rather be daycare workers and nurses when they grow up. And boys would rather be welders and truck drivers. And that’s not all. To the extreme chagrin of social engineers throughout Scandinavia, mothers still take the bulk of parental leave. Most men take parental leave only when a certain part of it is designated for fathers only.

Here’s an even more alarming possibility. What if people in the most developed countries are inclined to express greater gender differences, not less?



Studies of people in more than 60 countries around the world have found that much of gendered behaviour is culturally universal – men in all cultures tend to be more assertive and less emotionally expressive, while women are more nurturing and co-operative. But according to one startling research report , the divergence between male and female personality traits is more marked in highly developed countries.



The researchers believe the reason is that people in rich and educated societies are freer to be self-expressive. As writer Christina Hoff Sommers speculated a few months back in The Atlantic, “What if gender difference turns out to be a phenomenon not of oppression, but rather of social well-being?”



I have no idea if this is correct, but it is extremely suggestive. It would, for example, account for the flowering of gay culture across the Western world. It would also explain why highly educated women – ones who have an infinite variety of choices – hardly ever choose to be mechanical engineers.



So, then. Where do women have it better? That probably depends on how you define “better.”
If you define it as “high female pay and occupational success,” you’d choose North America. If you define it as “achieving work-life balance, with broad social supports and plenty of time for family and personal development,” you’d probably choose Sweden. There is no one right answer, only different ones.



As for how you get more women to lean in, I honestly don’t know. It’s hard to make them if they don’t want to.

Xiadnat:
This is true on some many levels - and complicated at that.

Sheryl Sandberg talked about it in her book: Lean In. Great read. I urge everyone woman who want to climb the ladder to get one.

It was extremely beneficial for me when I needed it. And, I intent to climb to CEO of some health care organization or my own sometime in the future, God willing.

Steep climb though, cause it's a vicious game at times--and women can be their own worse enemies even, not just men.

NB: Sheryl Sandberg is COO or CFO or Google and all its subsidiaries. In her book, she talked about her journey and how she balanced family life, and her career along with all these other "stereotypical" and "obstacles" women face in the workplace.

I saw that book with a senior colleague and it definitely looked like a must read.

Goodluck on your desire.

Timbuktou don finish work

Women were not allowed to aspire to a big fulfilling career, they were only meant to nurture and be family oriented - what was responsible? Patriarchy

Now that women have been enfranchised and gender equality is winning in many countries, most of these women still don't want to aspire to that big CEO placement - what is responsible? Mental conditioning as a result of Patriarchy.


The thing be say, some of these women never still know wetin dey worry dem..daz why.
Neither here nor there, but everywhere at the same time.

crackhaus:
Timbuktu don finish work

As always, of course.

Women were not allowed to aspire to a big fulfilling career, they were only meant to nurture and be family oriented - what was responsible? Patriarchy

That evil thing. Sheesh!! Patriarchy just makes me shudder.

Now that women have been enfranchised and gender equality is winning in many countries, most of these women still don't want to aspire to that big CEO placement - what is responsible? Mental conditioning as a result of Patriarchy.

That just goes to show how eviiiiiillllll the patriarchy is. The Scandinavian/Nordic axes have been practising(or attempting to practice) equality for 110 years and their women haven't got any more equal than Messi and Pius Ikedia. My brother, there's no escaping the evil effecys of this monstrous thing called the patriarchy.

The thing be say, some of these women never still know wetin dey worry dem..daz why.
Neither here nor there, but everywhere at the same time.

The simple diagnosis is Peniis Envy. They want to be men. Everything about them is about showing that they can also do what men do. A problem men do not have. Men don't try to prove that whatever a woman can do a man can do better.. . We, generally, just respect the doer and do what we consider propensitious to our nature.

@Timbuktou:

You seem very passionate about This subject.

First, I agree with Simone's Blog that not every woman is interested in becoming the CEO or CTO of an organization or anything so no amount of push would make them 'lean in' e.g. my colleagues.

Some others are not interested in the corporate world and rather do their own thing; by career standards, an Omotola, a Tiwa or a Tara is a 'success' in their space even though they might never have worked in a 'corporate' organization.

Also, having access to something without working for it is counterproductive that's why a Rich kid might not be motivated to push extra hard and a woman having access to the 'top' might not 'value' it.

I would appreciate you keep the sacarsm off the thread.

Re: Career over family...

Building a career as I know it take years to build ( it is called building for a reason) and it is not what you pause building a family for.

Some senior roles require certain age brackets and I will wonder at a person who waits till 50 before marriage because.

I also think we equate working stressful hours due to traffic/ demonic bosses/ proximity to homes to building a career . A person building a career as an Ambassador might work better hours than a cleaner at the bank.

I honestly don't get the choice part I see all over NL.

bukatyne:


I would appreciate you keep the sacarsm off the thread.

Does feminism or your brand of it abhor sarcasm? I would appreciate your not telling me how to talk.


BTW: I'm passionate about life.

Lord have mercy ... I know what this thread will turn into. Do you derive pleasure from dragging me into a potential war zone? For the sake of an interesting conversation and fun (the purpose of my life ), let me share some of my thoughts.

crackhaus:
Mindfulness oya show face, make we pick each other brain.

Your opinion on the OP, and of course, on my first post addressed to Tim.

On the OP: From my personal experience, many women are not interested in top positions. It's true as far as I can say and I don't believe that patriarchy is to blame but know that there are several reasons that explain this phenomenon. I am not of the nature or nurture school. It's ALWAYS a combination of both.

On your post:

Would you also say that Blacks are genetically less predisposed to be wealthy since they are underrepresented in the Forbes list of the wealthiest people?

Timbuktou:


Does feminism or your brand of it abhor sarcasm? I would appreciate your not telling me how to talk.


BTW: I'm passionate about life.

Post/Talk how you like; just take it far from my thread.

I opened it for healthy debate and the unnecessary sarcasm was almost a stumbling block. .

At least, your 5 consecutive posts made up for it.

Mindfulness:
Lord have mercy ... I know what this thread will turn into. Do you derive pleasure from dragging me into a potential war zone? For the sake of an interesting conversation and fun (the purpose of my life ), let me share some of my thoughts.



On the OP: From my personal experience, many women are not interested in top positions. It's true as far as I can say and I don't believe that patriarchy is to blame but know that there are several reasons that explain this phenomenon. I am not of the nature or nurture school. It's ALWAYS a combination of both.

On your post:

Would you also say that Blacks are genetically less predisposed to be wealthy since they are underrepresented in the Forbes list of the wealthiest people?

This thread is covered; no war

Interesting thoughts you have.

I would like the answer to your question.

Quick one: why do you think women are not interested in top positions?

bukatyne:


This thread is covered; no war

Interesting thoughts you have.

I would like the answer to your question.

Quick one: why do you think women are not interested in top positions?

Women are not interested in top positions for different reasons - natural and enviornmental.

I know that many women want to have it all and by all I do not only mean a family, a career but also time to themselves (whatever it means individually) and most women do so.

Only very few human beings can have top positions without focusing most of their attention, time and energy on this job.

I don't believe these at all.

Everyday more women are rising up to protest this discrimination and the "BLOOMBERG" says we never wanted it.

We need to start making declarations of non discrimination backed with facts.

How does a public company justify an all white male Board of Directors. I'm sure all the first class black ladies been declared everyday are simply not qualified.

There is definitely racial and gender discrimination.

Most women who have had opportunities to get very senior end up with remarkable results.

The richest woman in Africa is a very good example

bukatyne:


Post/Talk how you like; just take it far from my thread.

I opened it for healthy debate and the unnecessary sarcasm was almost a stumbling block. .

At least, your 5 consecutive posts made up for it.

Let's not be presmptious. I will speak, or write, anyway I please in spite of how it makes you feel or in your land. This is your land right?

Your inability to appreciate the finer points of sarcasm is not my fault. You can certainly try to appreciate it or resign yourself to your disability not try to henpeck a time-tested mode of expression. Furthermore, I have provided more health to this thread than anyone else, you should be kissing my feet for administering CPR to it.

You're welcome Mz. Tyne. I ask for no payment in return.

Timbuktou:
As always, of course.

That evil thing. Sheesh!! Patriarchy just makes me shudder.

That just goes to show how eviiiiiillllll the patriarchy is. The Scandinavian/Nordic axes have been practising(or attempting to practice) equality for 110 years and their women haven't got any more equal than Messi and Pius Ikedia. My brother, there's no escaping the evil effecys of this monstrous thing called the patriarchy.



The simple diagnosis is Peniis Envy. They want to be men. Everything about them is about showing that they can also do what men do. A problem men do not have. Men don't try to prove that whatever a woman can do a man can do better.. . We, generally, just respect the doer and do what we consider propensitious to our nature.

I kinda understand the problem of women who always make it all about patriarchy - it's quite noticeable that the high achieving women of substance in Nigeria and even in the world, hardly complain about what society might be responsible for. They navigate through all uncertainties and/or societal expectations and head straight to the top.

It may not be smooth sailing all through, but is it ever that easy for anyone - male or female?

Origin:
I don't believe these at all.

Everyday more women are rising up to protest this discrimination and the "BLOOMBERG" says we never wanted it.

We need to start making declarations of non discrimination backed with facts.

How does a public company justify an all white male Board of Directors. I'm sure all the first class black ladies been declared everyday are simply not qualified.

Is it a first class degree that qualifies anyone to become a member of the Board of Directors in a company?

Mindfulness:


Women are not interested in top positions for different reasons - natural and enviornmental.

I know that many women want to have it all and by all I do not only mean a family, a career but also time to themselves (whatever it means individually) and most women do so.

Only very few human beings can have top positions without focusing most of their attention, time and energy on this job.

But then getting to the top is very gradual and will not be always demanding. Swift rise to the top of any career is an exception.

I so agree with the having it all part. It is not only about family & career.

Mindfulness:
Lord have mercy ... I know what this thread will turn into. Do you derive pleasure from dragging me into a potential war zone? For the sake of an interesting conversation and fun (the purpose of my life ), let me share some of my thoughts.



On the OP: From my personal experience, many women are not interested in top positions. It's true as far as I can say and I don't believe that patriarchy is to blame but know that there are several reasons that explain this phenomenon. I am not of the nature or nurture school. It's ALWAYS a combination of both.

On your post:

Would you also say that Blacks are genetically less predisposed to be wealthy since they are underrepresented in the Forbes list of the wealthiest people?

Institutional Racism is still very much a reality in the so-called most liberal countries on earth whether they like to admit it or not, but we can't say the same for women who are supposedly living in these countries where gender equality and women's rights are enforced.

Of the three women represented on the forbes list of billionaires, only Oprah is American and still not married.
The other two are Africans who are married, and living in a continent that subdues/subjugates women - talk about an irony.



Point of correction Mindfulness:
I never said women are genetically less predisposed to be wealthy, read that comment again for complete and total assimilation.

crackhaus:

I kinda understand the problem of women who always make it all about patriarchy - it's quite noticeable that the high achieving women of substance in Nigeria and even in the world, hardly complain about what society might be responsible for. They navigate through all uncertainties and/or societal expectations and head straight to the top

The lie they've been told is that they can have it all and will by just trying. Dem never hear say people dey fail. The men they are so desperately competing against do not have it all. Look at Messi and Ronaldo, as good as they are, they don't have it all. . When these women see how much it takes to achieve that desire, they step back and analyse and see that it's not worth the price, they move on. But instead of admitting to their limitations, they push the blame to someone else, you guessed it, the pat...let me stop there.

It may not be smooth sailing all through, but is it ever that easy for anyone - male and female combined?

One of them will soon come and squeal "it's a man's world" because she's been cooking since 13 while her brothers played football. All the while forgetting that life balances it all in the end.

Origin:
I don't believe these at all.

Everyday more women are rising up to protest this discrimination and the "BLOOMBERG" says we never wanted it.

We need to start making declarations of non discrimination backed with facts.

How does a public company justify an all white male Board of Directors. I'm sure all the first class black ladies been declared everyday are simply not qualified.

There is definitely racial and gender discrimination.

Most women who have had opportunities to get very senior end up with remarkable results.

The richest woman in Africa is a very good example

The bold actually buttresses the point in the OP.

The women who want the 'promotion' go for it, get it and perform well.

The 1st class black ladies might not be the first qualified; they might be book wise but not street wise or social wise... 1st class is actually not enough to make someone sit on a board.

Bloomberg is not denying the discriminations where they exist; they are saying in addition, some women are not getting it because they don't want it... consciously/ unconsciously.

Origin:
I don't believe these at all.

So?

Everyday more women are rising up to protest this discrimination and the "BLOOMBERG" says we never wanted it.

Bloomberg is reporting on a research carried out by Harvard Unversity. Surely, you read that part. *gasp* Don't tell me you stormed in to comment having only perused the thrrad title.

We need to start making declarations of non discrimination backed with facts.

Harvard is making this declaration based on facts from research they embarked upon.

How does a public company justify an all white male Board of Directors. I'm sure all the first class black ladies been declared everyday are simply not qualified.

Merit over quotas and tokenism.

There is definitely racial and gender discrimination.

Prove it. Surely, you must have proof of these.

Most women who have had opportunities to get very senior end up with remarkable results.

The richest woman in Africa is a very good example

This is anecdotal at best. Are you saying women who aren't rich lacked the opportunity to acquire personal wealth, and if so, can the same not be said of poor men? Unless, of course, you're asserting there are no poor men.




Aunty Origin, I'm curious, were you ever the best student in your any of the classes in any of the schools you attended at any period in or length of time? Were you ever the best female student anywhere you attended school?

If you ever weren't or only scarcely so, would you say this is because of some discrmination against or were you simply not afforded the sort of opportunity that would make you so distinguished?

Timbuktou:

The lie they've been told is that they can have it all and will by just trying. Dem never hear say people dey fail. The men they are so desperately competing against do not have it all. Look at Messi and Ronaldo, as good as they are, they don't have it all. . When these women see how much it takes to achieve that desire, they step back and analyse and see that it's not worth the price, they move on. But instead of admitting to their limitations, they push the blame to someone else, you guessed it, the pat...let me stop there.




One of them will soon come and squeal "it's a man's world" because she's been cooking since 13 while her brothers played football. All the while forgetting that life balances it all in the end.

That there in bold is the summary of it all - Limitations.
Not the making of anyone else, but of ourselves...male and female alike.

Yea, maybe one will really come and squeal "its a man's world" as the reason why it may be easier for men, but the truth is that it will not stop being a man's world for a very long time...till rapture takes place even.

I do have a feeling though that it will become a woman's world right after this earth is rolled away and the New Jerusalem descends from heaven - if you believe that sort of thing.
Until then, women better learn how to navigate themselves in this man's world cos that's the only one they gonna have.

crackhaus:

That there in bold is the summary of it all - Limitations.
Not the making of anyone else, but of ourselves...male and female alike.

Yea, maybe one will really come and squeal "its a man's world" as the reason why it may be easier for men, but the truth is that it will not stop being a man's world for a very long time...till rapture takes place even.

I do have a feeling though that it will become a woman's world right after this earth is rolled away and the New Jerusalem descends from heaven - if you believe that sort of thing.
Until then, women better learn how to navigate themselves in this man's world cos that's the only one they gonna have.

Now you're just being callous. Don't deprive these women of hope. They can still take over before Jesus comes. Don't condition them to think all they'll amount to is nothing.

Timbuktou:


Now you're just being callous. Don't deprive these women of hope. They can still take over before Jesus comes. Don't condition them to think all they'll amount to is nothing.

You said that, not me.



That it's a man's world doesn't mean anyone who's not a man will amount to nothing - stated for the benefit of those that may read another meaning.

crackhaus:

You said that, not me.



That it's a man's world doesn't mean anyone who's not a man will amount to nothing - stated for the benefit of those that may read another meaning.

I swear, you be politician

crackhaus:

Institutional Racism is still very much a reality in the so-called most liberal countries on earth whether they like to admit it or not, but we can't say the same for women who are supposedly living in these countries where gender equality and women's rights are enforced.

And laws against racism and discrimination have not been enforced in the said countries? Abeg!

Of the three women represented on the forbes list of billionaires, only Oprah is American and still not married.
The other two are Africans who are married, and living in a continent that subdues/subjugates women - talk about an irony.


Point of correction Mindfulness:
I never said women are genetically less predisposed to be wealthy, read that comment again for complete and total assimilation.

[/quote]

But they are naturally less inclined and environment has nothing to do with it, aight?

bukatyne:


But then getting to the top is very gradual and will not be always demanding. Swift rise to the top of any career is an exception.

I so agree with the having it all part. It is not only about family & career.

Getting to the top is very time-consuming. Most top leader positions require you to be available for more than just eight hours at work every day. You have to be available and you have to be flexible. How can you manage to do it when you have kids at home, especially when motherly duties very much differ from what is expected of fathers, even in developed countries.

Have you ever seen a TV ad for diapers showing men?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H3URJ4GqaI

Origin:
I don't believe these at all.

Everyday more women are rising up to protest this discrimination and the "BLOOMBERG" says we never wanted it.

We need to start making declarations of non discrimination backed with facts.

How does a public company justify an all white male Board of Directors. I'm sure all the first class black ladies been declared everyday are simply not qualified.

There is definitely racial and gender discrimination.

Most women who have had opportunities to get very senior end up with remarkable results.

The richest woman in Africa is a very good example

Crackhaus claims that there is racial discrimination even though it has been outlawed but there is no gender discrimination because it has been outlawed.

Objective reasoning, it's called.

Crackhaus, diaris God ooo.

crackhaus:

You said that, not me.



That it's a man's world doesn't mean anyone who's not a man will amount to nothing - stated for the benefit of those that may read another meaning.

It's a man's world because there are more men in the Forbes list of wealthiest people?

It's MY world! Now what?