donnffd:


No i ddnt...but your question is based on a faulty premise, "I was created"



No i ddnt, but then again 'Faulty premise'



I wasnt created...





!

donnffd:



Yes it does, if truly there was a God and he did create us with free-will, then i wonder why you would even ask that question!, are you forced into loving something or is it compulsory you love something because its just compulsory?, Do you choice to love something and if you do, what were the reasons for you loving that thing?


!

donnffd:


No, God can be anything he wants to be, it makes no difference to me, but if he wants my worship, he should be deserving of it...

donnffd:


Wrong Answer...
If the blacks in America during the Civil Rights Movement played by the rules, they would still be in segregation by now.
If our founding fathers played by the rules, Nigeria would still be a colony of Britain
If Europe allowed Germany played by their rules, all of Europe would have been enslaved, black and jews would have been killed in the millions.

Your ideology of play according to the rules in the face of tyranny is pathetic and you should be ashamed of yourself

donnffd:

Yes its not, Except if you dont, you would burn in Hell for all of Eternity...!

donnffd:


...what a loving God indeed!

HardMirror:

What is God's desire? That ALL men be saved. If god wants that so much why not make us all exist in heaven without coming to earth, why put us through the test?

Edybleketara:
Hello

HardMirror:

What is God's desire? That ALL men be saved. If god wants that so much why not make us all exist in heaven without coming to earth, why put us through the test?

honourhim:


Whatever you call it. The point remains that you didnt bring yourself here. It was by God's design so there is nothing like faulty premise. However if you want to debate on the issue of God and creation then you can do it on a separate thread with those who might be interested. My focus is on the title of this thread.




Which freewill? How free do you think your so called freewill is? You are quoting what preachers told you. Get this clear now- the freedom you have is not absolute. There is no absolute freedom anywhere in the world. The choice is restricted to two- its either you are on God's side or you are on the devil's side. Not being on God's side means you are on the devil's side No middle ground. If God wanted man to have absolute freedom he wouldnt have restricted it to two sides. Again he wouldnt have attached any punishment for those who choose not to serve him. You are free to make your choice but you are not free to opt out of the consequences of your choice so your so called freewill has limits.



And again i tell you that your position about God makes no change to his laid down rules- if you reject him it means you ve accepted the devil and the consequences attached to that decision.



Obviously you are looking at God as a human that people can team up to fight and make him change how he wants man to operate. If you have this belief in you then you should be ashamed of yourself that uptill now you have not been able to gang up against God in order to force him to wipe out death in this world. You ve not also been able to force him to make this world free of evil and perfect like heaven. Quite pathetic and shameful of you that you ve not been able to stand against God on this two issues i raised like America and Europe that you cited as example for me. I still maintain that there are things we dont have powers over and if you disagree with me simply prove your overwhelming power over God by forcing him to wipe out death and make the world a perfect place as heaven. At least start from there then we can proceed to other things.



If not for your mischievous mind that wants to do anything and get away with it, why would somebody choose to live a life that will make him burn in hell when there is a better option of spending eternity in heaven? And if you think our resistance to hell fire can make God can make God wippe out hell fire, then our resistance to death should have made him wipe out death and evil a very long time ago




God loves and can also hate. Its you and some of your preachers that have refused to accept this. When you read the bible from Genesis to Revelation you will clearly see that God did not pretend about his attributes. At some point he builds, at another he destroys. At one point he protects, at another he removes his protection. He does things as it pleases him and of course thats the primary reason he created us If God wanted to paint a picture of him as an all loving God who cannot harm anybody then the bible wouldnt have been written the way it is now.

Peacefullove:
Nice thread. But as the Op said only the deep thinkers can understand.

The Hell and Heaven theory doesn't make sense and in fact it makes Jesus himself appear as a Lie and Fraud . I will explain this from the fundamental christian perspective.

∆ HEAVEN /HELL

Cain killed Abel, he dies and go to (Heaven/Eternal life)

David die and go to ( Heaven/Eternal life )



let me stop there : years after , Jesus came and said God love THE WORLD and gave his only beggoten son that if u believe in him you will have eternal life ( heaven )

but from the earlier examples given base on the heaven and hell theory, hasn't the world been making heaven and having eternal life without Jesus ? Its either Jesus is a liar , his death has no puprpose here or the heaven/hell theory is false aftrall Abel and David plus Daniel have eternal life without God giving his only begotten son



~~~~~~~~~~~

Talk about Hell.

Cain die and go to hell .

Christianity teaches that Jesus is the grand plan of salvation of the whole WORLD. Now, Cain and some Israelite kings are already in hellfire , how then can Jesus claim to save the whole world since Millions are already in hellfire ?

HardMirror:

?

Peacefullove:


This guy mentality is : my god is wicked , there is nothing you can do about it !

honourhim:


Between us and God who defines what is wicked and what is not about his act? Is it you the creature?

Peacefullove:


Another bizzare theory , if the definition of wickedness in the eyes of God is different from that of his creatures, Then I wonder what's the purpose of a conscience and commandments then, if it can't reflect properly the image and thoughts of the one who gave it. That means men are not made in Gods image

honourhim:


Obviously you think that God is your fellow man whom you can judge. Now listen.
For example, When God said we should not kill it means that you have no right to take away another person's life because you are not the owner of life. God is the owner of life..
When God takes back the life he has given to somebody then you want to classify him as a killer like your fellow man It doesn't add up.
God does not even permit suicide because you don't own your life.
He owns life. He gives it at will and takes it at will. nothing wicked about it pls.

The commandments that God gave to us is how we should relate with our fellow man and how we should relate to him. The commandment is not governing him.

Peacefullove:


Probably u didn't see this in your bible 'The Almighty doesnt act wickedly or unjustly ' this specify he won't act in a way that will make his creations pronounce him wicked or unjust .


That should tell u, you are not making any sense dude .



And besides, even the human society frowns at suicide. And its not every time you take a mans life that u are a killer. Even in this case, u kill and the person is dead! Thats the end . Let me go into the popular mosaic law, the average Jew before reaching the age of 40 will have stoned a lot of people to death including relatives, does that make him a Murderer ?



But how would you justify roasting billions in a fire forever because of a life of just 70 years in an imperfect body that's already prone to sin ?

honourhim:
.
I don't have time for useless argument. Since you choose to pretend not to see my point as usual of atheists then go ahead..

Peacefullove:
Nice thread. But as the Op said only the deep thinkers can understand.

The Hell and Heaven theory doesn't make sense and in fact it makes Jesus himself appear as a Lie and Fraud . I will explain this from the fundamental christian perspective.

∆ HEAVEN /HELL

Cain killed Abel, he dies and go to (Heaven/Eternal life)

David die and go to ( Heaven/Eternal life )



let me stop there : years after , Jesus came and said God love THE WORLD and gave his only beggoten son that if u believe in him you will have eternal life ( heaven )

but from the earlier examples given base on the heaven and hell theory, hasn't the world been making heaven and having eternal life without Jesus ? Its either Jesus is a liar , his death has no puprpose here or the heaven/hell theory is false aftrall Abel and David plus Daniel have eternal life without God giving his only begotten son



~~~~~~~~~~~

Talk about Hell.

Cain die and go to hell .

Christianity teaches that Jesus is the grand plan of salvation of the whole WORLD. Now, Cain and some Israelite kings are already in hellfire , how then can Jesus claim to save the whole world since Millions are already in hellfire ?

Peacefullove:


Like I said earlier, your mentality of there is nothing you can do about it that is- something there is no even evidence exist, is the reason you disregard Every sane point as useless argument, now from a fundamental christian perspective , assuming it exist , can u address this then :

Peacefullove:




Peacefullove:
Nice thread. But as the Op said only the deep thinkers can understand.

The Hell and Heaven theory doesn't make sense and in fact it makes Jesus himself appear as a Lie and Fraud . I will explain this from the fundamental christian perspective.

∆ HEAVEN /HELL

Cain killed Abel, he dies and go to (Heaven/Eternal life)

David die and go to ( Heaven/Eternal life )



let me stop there : years after , Jesus came and said God love THE WORLD and gave his only beggoten son that if u believe in him you will have eternal life ( heaven )

but from the earlier examples given base on the heaven and hell theory, hasn't the world been making heaven and having eternal life without Jesus ? Its either Jesus is a liar , his death has no puprpose here or the heaven/hell theory is false aftrall Abel and David plus Daniel have eternal life without God giving his only begotten son cheesy



~~~~~~~~~~~

Talk about Hell.

Cain die and go to hell .

Christianity teaches that Jesus is the grand plan of salvation of the whole WORLD. Now, Cain and some Israelite kings are already in hellfire , how then can Jesus claim to save the whole world since Millions are already in hellfire ?

Peacefullove:




Peacefullove:
Nice thread. But as the Op said only the deep thinkers can understand.

The Hell and Heaven theory doesn't make sense and in fact it makes Jesus himself appear as a Lie and Fraud . I will explain this from the fundamental christian perspective.

∆ HEAVEN /HELL

Cain killed Abel, he dies and go to (Heaven/Eternal life)

David die and go to ( Heaven/Eternal life )



let me stop there : years after , Jesus came and said God love THE WORLD and gave his only beggoten son that if u believe in him you will have eternal life ( heaven )

Peacefullove:





but from the earlier examples given base on the heaven and hell theory, hasn't the world been making heaven and having eternal life without Jesus ? Its either Jesus is a liar

Peacefullove:





Its either Jesus is a liar , his death has no puprpose here or the heaven/hell theory is false aftrall Abel and David plus Daniel have eternal life without God giving his only begotten son cheesy

Peacefullove:







~~~~~~~~~~~

Talk about Hell.

Cain die and go to hell .

Peacefullove:


Now, Cain and some Israelite kings are already in hellfire , how then can Jesus claim to save the whole world since Millions are already in hellfire ?

AnonyNymous:
A little boy was born into a small tribe in the heart of central Africa. He obeyed his elders, worked on the farm with his dad, and fetched water from the stream for his mom. He also joined them to perform their clan's sacred ritual dance every night. One day, when he was about 10 years old, he went down with tuberculosis after staying up all night in the cold, trying find his beloved pet dog. Having no access to medicine, he dies and is sent to a realm of eternal torment for not knowing Jesus Christ.

honourhim:


Before Jesus came God already made provisions for the forgiveness of sins for the old testament generation. The death of Jesus put a stop on the sacrifice of animals for atonement which was obtainable then. The atonement of Christ replaced it once and for all and made it possible that you dont need to sacrifice an animal again to atone for your sins..You dont need to go to a priest before your sins are forgiven. You dont even need to be in church before you receive forgiveness. Just pray to God anywhere you are and he saves you from your life of sin. The sacrifiice of Jesus made our access to God very easy. Before Christ came people accessed God only through the priests but now just stay anywhere and pray to God and he hears you. The coming of Christ removed a lot of religious protocols involved in the worship of God in the old testament because he is the highest sacrifice. No other sacrifice can be better and higher than him. You have read it in the bible but wants to pretend you dont know this.

Pls where in the bible did Jesus say that those who died before he came are doomed? Even the John 3;16 you quoted did not condemn those who died before Jesus came.

I have already explained what surrounds the death and resurrection of Christ and the old testament practice. Christ came to complement the process that started in the old testament. I have listed some of the benefit's of Christ's coming so i dont need to repeat it again. The teachings of Christ in the bible was for the people living at that time and those of us who were yet to be born at that time. It wasnt for those who were already dead then biko

You took him to hell? How did you know that he didnt repent after God punished him?

I have already told you how atonement for sin was done in the olden days so your claim here has no grounds.
Again the 3 days that Jesus spent in the grave have some positive implication on some of the old testament people. You read this in the bible and failed to acknowledge it just because you want to condemn Christianity.

Peacefullove:
REPLY :



Okay, David and other considered righteous make heaven when they died with the blood of goats and sheep's ?



Don't derail, here is what u quote

"
Peacefullove:

but from the earlier examples given base on the heaven and hell theory, hasn't the world been making heaven and having eternal life without Jesus dying for their sins ? Its either Jesus is a liar"

As u can see, the factor in consideration here is considering that David and other righteous ones die and go to heaven , hasn't the world been making heaven and having eternal life without Jesus ?



Calm down man , who talks about the teachings of Jesus ?

The point is what exactly is the purpose of Jesus death and claiming to die for the whole world if people like David, Isaac died and go to heaven when they died without Jesus dying for their sins ?



Whichever way, u can't escape it!


Supposing he didn't repent, if he died as a sinner, he go to hellfire ! How can Jesus claim to save the whole world , if people like Cain are already in hell ?

Assuming he repents, he died and go to Heaven having eternal life , ! Then how Can Jesus claim to be the saviour of Cain and the world , if he go to heaven without Jesus even dying for his sins ? That means Cain make heaven without God giving his only begotten son , u agree ?



You don't mean it , they were able to die and make heaven/eternal life with the blood of goats and sheep used for atonement ?

honourhim:


[s]
You are just confusing yourself. I am actually replying you for the sake of some innocent minds who may be reading and may not reply you again after this if you continue showing your mischievous approach to the discussion.
[/s]

I told you that the death of Jesus had impact on some of those people who died in the old testament yet you are still pretending as if you didnt see it. When Jesus died he went and set the spirits of some of the dead free. Thats part of the things that happened within that 3 days before his resurrection.

I also told you that the teachings of Jesus was for those who were alive then and still you are asking me who talks about the teachings of Jesus. So why are you mentioning Jesus in this conversation if you aint talking about his teachings? So what are you driving at?

You mentioned John 3;16. let me quote that portion for you- "for God so loved the world that he gave his only beggotten son, that whosever believeth in him will not perish but have everlasting life".
Now pls tell me, this statement was made in the new testament, does it look like something referring to those who were already dead and buried long time ago before it was made? Does this english spoken here resemble a statement referring to the generations gone before the coming of Jesus? Was this place telling those who died to believe Jesus?

I also told you that in the past sacrifice of animals were used to atone for sins. Kind of used to plead with God. There were also other reasons that people made burnt sacrfices/offerings in the old testament. Sometimes its done for thanksgiving, for other supplication to God and you are here telling me about blood of goat and sheep. Is it only blood that they lay on the altar for the burnt sacrifice? Then i said that because those sacrifice for sin were not worthy enough more than Jesus, thats why it was important that Jesus came to be sacrificed once and for all. Instead of people sacrificing animals each time they sinned, the death of Jesus became a one off sacrifice. God created the animals, God requested that it be used as sacrifice pending the coming of Christ so whats your own about it? Will you dictate to God how he will run his affairs? I dont get what you are blabbing about.

I ve outlined some of the benefits of the coming of Jesus to mankind and you are still asking me whats the point of his coming. Its obvious you are not reasoning over my points, you are just interested in blabbing.

If you go through my profile you will see that i attend to people's questions when they ask me but it appears you lack some level of sincerity and i may not reply you again if you continue to show such insincerity.

Peacefullove:



What am driving at is revealing how the heaven/hell theory expose the teaching that Jesus is the grand plan of Salvation as an hoax.



Read the underlined, God love the world. The world here refer to every single human that has ever lived on this planet. That's why they say Jesus takes away the sin of the World . so therefore, its necessary to examine his death in relation to those who lived in the past because they also constitute the world

honourhim:


Why are you trying so hard to twist the meaning of this simple statement? Let me make it clearer for you.

For God so love the world- Yes he does.

That he gave his only begotten son- And i ask when did he send the son? In the old testament or in the new testament?

That whosoever believeth in him- and i ask again how does the word "believe" in this context apply to the dead? Can a dead man come to believe something going on in the physical? Can he believe something happening in the physical world while dead? So how then will people who were dead years before Christ came be part of the 'whosever believeth in him" that is written in this scripture?


How does this statement and its meaning resemble the meaning you are trying to give it? You are just trying to twist the meaning of the statement to suit your mockery whereas you are actually making a mockery of yourself.

Peacefullove:


The BLUE is a very good question, and I will answer you



John 3:16 says God love THE WORLD . the world here isn't just some people in the new testament,

Peacefullove:


the christian bible made emphasize that all the descendant of Adam inherit an original sin and for that, they ALL need Jesus the second Adam .

Peacefullove:

, now are u saying those who died in times past don't need Jesus dying for them ? Are u saying they ain't part of those who inherit the so called original Sin ? Or when it said Jesus die , it isn't for all the sons of the Genesis Adam ?

honourhim:


KINDLY READ WHAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN HERE WITH A SANE MIND THIS TIME AROUND AND SEE HOW SHAMEFUL AND PATHETIC YOU SOUND.

You have failed to tell me how the word "believe" should be applicable to people who were dead years ago before Jesus came so as to show that the meaning you are attaching to this is correct. You dont just cook up any meaning that suits your crooked mind and flash it before me.. Is this shallow reasoning of yours part of what atheists call intelligent reasoning?. Quite a shame on how insincerity has eaten deep inside you.

Pls show where this is written in the bible so that we can take a look at it together.

I will answer you this when you answer the question i asked you in the last post. I paste it again below for you. Kindly answer so that we can proceed or you bear the shame of your insincerity. you tactfully dodged the question and jumped to the last among them to continue with your insincerity. Here is it-


"and i ask again how does the word "believe" in this context apply to the dead? Can a dead man come to believe something going on in the physical? Can he believe something happening in the physical world while dead? So how then will people who were dead years before Christ came be part of the 'whosever believeth in him that is written in this scripture?" (new testament)

I also asked you when did Jesus come to die? Old or new testament? Answer or bear the Shame of your insincerity.

honourhim:


KINDLY READ WHAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN HERE WITH A SANE MIND THIS TIME AROUND AND SEE HOW SHAMEFUL AND PATHETIC YOU SOUND.

You have failed to tell me how the word "believe" should be applicable to people who were dead years ago before Jesus came so as to show that the meaning you are attaching to this is correct. You dont just cook up any meaning that suits your crooked mind and flash it before me.. Is this shallow reasoning of yours part of what atheists call intelligent reasoning?. Quite a shame on how insincerity has eaten deep inside you.

Pls show where this is written in the bible so that we can take a look at it together.

I will answer you this when you answer the question i asked you in the last post. I paste it again below for you. Kindly answer so that we can proceed or you bear the shame of your insincerity. you tactfully dodged the question and jumped to the last among them to continue with your insincerity. Here is it-


"and i ask again how does the word "believe" in this context apply to the dead? Can a dead man come to believe something going on in the physical? Can he believe something happening in the physical world while dead? So how then will people who were dead years before Christ came be part of the 'whosever believeth in him that is written in this scripture?" (new testament)

I also asked you when did Jesus come to die? Old or new testament? Answer or bear the Shame of your insincerity.

Peacefullove:
REPLY:




I can see you deliberately cut out John 1:29 part of my post , I catch ya ! You know that bible verse has finish you already .


John 1:29 Jesus takes away the sin of the world ! Are this so called old testament people part of this world that inherit the sin ? Answer that first, and you will know if the believe aspect apply to them or not !

Peacefullove:
REPLY:





Romans 5 verse 12

12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned "

Peacefullove:
REPLY:






John 3:16 God loves the WORLD

John 1:29 Jesus takes away the sin of the WORLD

So how can the dead ones put faith in Jesus sacrifice ? Or they don't need it since they are already in heaven without Jesus sacrifice sef ?

Or Jesus died for not the world but only people of his era

Peacefullove:
REPLY:


I cancelled that new testament cos its a term coined by you people not By bible itself . its funny how you guys break bible into two versions and still claim all scripture is inspired of God.

Peacefullove:
REPLY:


Let me remind you that when Jesus come to die is not important here , because all evidences present him has the one who will liberate mankind from sin. That bible claim is the basis of this discussion not when he was born!

Unless u are telling me Jesus didn't die for the world of john 1:29 , only those born in his era

honourhim:


Your foolishness rings to the high heaven.So any sentence that is made with the word "world" means that the dead and the living are partakers of it? If i invented something this year and say its for the world to use does it mean that those who died right from Adam till now are part of those that will make use of it? Can we say that the first and second world war was fought by everybody in the world (including those who died right from Adam, since the word "world" is there? And if it doesnt mean that why are you bending the bible statement just to suit your stupldity?

Now this statement is different from what you said. I never said that all have not sinned. Below was what you said which is different from the bible portion you quoted.
"the christian bible made emphasize that all the descendant of Adam inherit an original sin and for that, they ALL need Jesus the second Adam" .





Was this not the question i asked you when you were trying to twist the bible statement. And i told you that since the dead cannot believe what is going on in the physical that the word "world" in those bible portions wasnt talking about those who died since Adam but your foolishness did not allow you to understand my point. I earlier told you that God made provision for atonement for sin for those who lived before Jesus came.

And let me also make it clear to you that salvation, which is the benefit of the death and resurrection of Jesus is strictly for "whosoever believeth "
If you like continue giving the word "world" in those biblical statements twisted meanings.

See how foolish you are. You want to judge us with the bible and you are cancelling what you dont like and accepting what you like in the same bible. If you want to judge us with the bible be sincere enough to carry see it as written. We dont need your stupld cancellation of what you dont like,Old testament and new testament is simply timeline. I mean everything in the bible did not happen in one day or one year or even one century except your stupldity is telling you ao. What i was driving at when i mentioned new testament was that several years have passed between the creation of Adam and the birth of Jesus and many people had died within these years, and i was asking you how a statement made about the world believing Jesus should include those who died several years before he came. You silly brain refused to get my point.

When Jesus came to die is not important? It is your brain that have refused to understand a statement made in the bible.you keep describing the world in those statements as comprising both the dead and the living. Thats why i didnt need to say anything about John 1;29 because its the same world as mentioned in John 3; 16. When you answer the questions i asked you yesterday then you will understand the two biblical portions you quoted in the book of John.'I repeat the question for you again below-

"and i ask again how does the word "believe" in this context apply to the dead? Can a dead man come to believe something going on in the physical? Can he believe something happening in the physical world while dead? So how then will people who were dead years before Christ came to be part of the 'whosever believeth in him that is written in this scripture?" (new testament)

The statement is John 3;16 does not mean those who died before Christ came. If those who died since Adam were involved, the phrase-"whosoever believeth in him" wouldnt have been there. Again God wouldnt have needed to make earlier provision for those who lived and died before Christ came if the statement included them. What the bible said is that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. The bible also told that before the death of Christ people lived under the law but now we live in the time of grace. And of course the difference is clear. Does people die as soon as they commit sin as it used to be in the old testament? NO. Thats because of grace.

Also combine it with the question i asked in my earlier response to this post. Let me repeat the question below-


If i invented something this year2016 and say its for the world to use does it mean that those who died right from Adam till now are part of those that will make use of it? Can we say that the first and second world war was fought by everybody in the world (including those who died right from Adam), since the word "world" is there? And if it doesnt mean that why are you bending the bible statement just to suit your stupldity?

Peacefullove:
Calm down, don't give yourself high blood pressure because I can see you replied with anger . lol u have only succeeded in telling that the concept of original sin made no sense



[/b]

Peacefullove:

REPLY:



" Sin of the World " John 1:29 , what is this sin ? and are this old testament folks part of those who inherit this sin ?


So far they also inherit it , then it applies to them
since Jesus is the so called saviour of the world , the WAY .

[/b]

Peacefullove:




in other words , Jesus didn't die for the sin of Abel, Isaac, Enoch , Joshua , Samson whom are also sons of the Genesis Adam ?





[/b]

Peacefullove:




all those who inherit Adamic sin , need Jesus sacrifice ? YES or NO



emphasis on " Sin of the world " not just world , And all who inherit the adamic sin need Jesus ransom sacrifice , YES OR NO ?


probably the blood of goats and sheep were able to give Abel a space in heaven when he died, only for some bible writers to later say the blood of goats and sheep can't wash away sin,

" For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins. " Hebrew 10 vs 4



[/b]

Peacefullove:


that means many old testament folks don't need Jesus to make heaven , wow for them , Jesus is not THE WAY , he is not the LIFE , blood of goats and sheep gives them the needed life . wow

honourhim:


TRASH




We inherited the adamic nature. The nature that yields to sin. And since Adam human has been committing sin till now so I dont understand what else you are driving at differently. Those in the old testament sinned and God made provision for atonement for them which was called sin offering. See a few verses here-

Exodus 29;14 But the flesh of the bullock, and his skin, and his dung, shalt thou burn with fire without the camp: it is a sin offering.

Exodus 30;10
10 And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offering of atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it is most holy unto the Lord.

Leviticus 4;20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them.


Since the time of old testament God has been forgiving sin and Jesus said it clearly that he and God his father are one(united). They work hand in hand towards the same purpose.

Here is a prayer of David who lived in the old testament too-

Psalm 51;1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

God forgives sin. God and Jesus are one. It was God that sent Jesus to come and complete the work of salvation by making it easy for us so that we wont need to sacrifice animals again for atonement and forgiveness.




The work of salvation of man took processes which was completed when Jesus came.

but Old testament


The sin of the world as stated in the book of John that you quoted does not include the sin of those who died before Jesus came because those who atoned as God prescribed for them had been forgiven. It does not also mean the sin of everybody in the world now. It simply means the sins of "whosoever believeth in him"



[size=27]
Jesus didnt die for them o this boy.
[/size] John 3;16 was talking of those who are living from when Jesus cames till when he will come again and thats why the phrase "whosever believeth in him" is there. The dead cannot believe what is happening while they are dead. Its the simple truth which you have foolishly pretended not to understand.

Jesus didn't die for them but he completed the work of their Salvation right ?

You failed to show me the biblical portion that you said that the bolded statement was made. Pls show me lets look at it together.

And of course the purpose of the sacrifice of the old testament wasnt for the blood of animals to take away their sins rather it was to plead with God to forgive them their sins and he did each time they sacrificed sin offering. It is only the blood of Jesus that can take away sins because Jesus and God are one. Here is what Hebrews 9 says-

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

And like i said before- the statement that Christ takes away the sins of the world doesnt also mean that he takes away everybody's sins. Its only the sins of "whosoever believeth in him" that he takes away so stop confusing yourself.
Read what Hebrew 9 says-
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

If you have sense you can understand this but if you dont then you can continue in your senselessness for all i care.




TRASH. I VE ALREADY ANSWERED YOU SO YOU CAN MAKE SILLY CONCLUSIONS AS YOU LIKE.


God and Jesus are one(united) and everything about the redemption of man goes according to the plan of God which Jesus Christ is part of so i dont get your blabbing+. The old testament people would have believe Jesus if they saw him. The fact that they obeyed the atonement plan that God made for them shows they would have also believed the sacrifice of Jesus. The atonement of those days were a pointer to what Jesus was coming to do. It was a shadow of things to come and the redemption at the cross was the thing. God runs the universe as he pleases. When Jesus came he spoke words to us, he wasnt speaking to Adam and the people that were already dead. If you check the statements of Jesus about salvation and about spreading the gospel it was mostly in present tense and future tense. hardly past tense. Keep messing yourself up.