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Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri - Religion - Nairaland

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Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by DeathStroke007(m): 4:47pm On Aug 30, 2016
Salam alaykum warahmatullahi wabarakahtuhu my brother's and sister's in Islam.




Like we all know, in Islam, before you can say anything in Islam, you must back it up with proofs from Quran and Sunnah...




I do listen to jabata lectures very well and he explained everything about takfir and its conditions in Islam.




Before you can call someone a kufar, all the 3 conditions must be considered..




Before you accuse Jabata for takfiri or so, listen to his lectures first, do not listen to "them say he say"... Hear it for yourself..




If you call a Muslim a kufar, the kufar is on you....
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 4:54pm On Aug 30, 2016
Answer these questions;

1.) Who is a takfiri?

2.) Does jabata say kullu bid'atin kufr?

3.) And emm, who called him a kafir?



Note: I do listen to his lectures too to confirm if what they say about him is true.
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by DeathStroke007(m): 5:08pm On Aug 30, 2016
lexiconkabir:
Answer these questions;
1.) Who is a takfiri?
2.) Does jabata say kullu bid'atin kufr?
3.) And emm, who called him a kafir?
Note: I do listen to his lectures too to confirm if what they say about him is true.




If you do truly listen to his lectures... Then you will know all that calls him imam takfiri or so are lairs. Some people who call themselves sunnah followers even do say people shouldn't listen to his lectures again that he's misguided
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 5:13pm On Aug 30, 2016
DeathStroke007:





If you do truly listen to his lectures... Then you will know all that calls him imam takfiri or so are lairs. Some people who call themselves sunnah followers even do say people shouldn't listen to his lectures again that he's misguided

Will you answer the questions i asked?
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by DeathStroke007(m): 5:14pm On Aug 30, 2016
lexiconkabir:
Answer these questions;

1.) Who is a takfiri?

2.) Does jabata say kullu bid'atin kufr?

3.) And emm, who called him a kafir?



Note: I do listen to his lectures too to confirm if what they say about him is true.



Takfiri is a Muslim calling a Muslim kufar...


Yes... All bidia is kufr... Kulu bidia tun dolala.. EVERY INNOVATION IS MISGUIDANCE .. ACCORDING TO SUNNAH, BIDIA IS KUFR



A kafir is someone is follows his or her desire after proofs from Quran and sunnah have been clear to him or her..nor does he or her is forced to do any act of kufr nor he or she is ignorant about the kufr act he or she is doing nor he or she does kufr act by mistake....the punishment of a kafir is to boycott such person.. To cut all ties with him or her.
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 5:18pm On Aug 30, 2016
DeathStroke007:




Takfiri is a Muslim calling a Muslim kufar...

Complete the definition.


Yes... All bidia is kufr... Kulu bidia tun dolala.. EVERY INNOVATION IS MISGUIDANCE .. ACCORDING TO SUNNAH, BIDIA IS KUFR

Hmm, have you heard about the bid'ah of marwaan and the bid'ah of Abu israeel?



A kafir is someone is follows his or her desire after proofs from Quran and sunnah have been clear to him or her..nor does he or her is forced to do any act of kufr nor he or she is ignorant about the kufr act he or she is doing....the punishment of a kafir is to boycott such person.. To cut all ties with him or her.

This is not what i asked, i asked, who called jabata a kafir?

1 Like

Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by DeathStroke007(m): 5:21pm On Aug 30, 2016
lexiconkabir:


Complete the definition.




Hmm, have you heard about the bid'ah of marwaan and the bid'ah of Abu israeel?





This is not what i asked, i asked, who called jabata a kafir?





Brother, you don't do listen to jabata lectures.... If you truly do, you would have hear his reply to what you have just said... And it is people of bidia that do use that proofs
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 5:23pm On Aug 30, 2016
DeathStroke007:






Brother, you don't do listen to jabata lectures.... If you truly do, you would have hear his reply to what you have just said... And it is people of bidia that do use that proofs

What did he say? That marwaan did ijtihad? And Abu israeel was ignorant? Is that not what he said?
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 5:27pm On Aug 30, 2016
And you said its people of bid'ah that make use of that proof, so according to you;

1) i am a kafir

2) Albani is a kafir

3) ibn uthaymeen is a kafir

4) ibn baaz is a kafir

5) all the ulama are kafirs except you, your people and your shaykh?

Weldone grin
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 5:27pm On Aug 30, 2016
grin grin
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by DeathStroke007(m): 5:30pm On Aug 30, 2016
lexiconkabir:


Complete the definition.

What else you want to hear about the definition. That's what I know.



Hmm, have you heard about the bid'ah of marwaan and the bid'ah of Abu israeel?



Marwan and the khutubah before salat on Eid is not bidia. He only did ijtihad. He made a mistake. He did what he thought was right. Sahabahs can never go against rasululah intentionally.. And if eventually one of them mistakenly did, we will not follow him on that issue. We will follow rasuls proof. What one sahabah do as act of ibadah is not classified as proof in Islam, its what all sahabhs did or agree upon that it's proof. As long as what any sahabah did goes against what other sahabahs did or what rasul did, WE WILL NOT USE IT AS PROOF. Do you understand?




This is not what i asked, i asked, who called jabata a kafir?

Many ahlu bidiah did...
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by DeathStroke007(m): 5:32pm On Aug 30, 2016
lexiconkabir:
And you said its people of bid'ah that make use of that proof, so according to you;

1) i am a kafir

2) Albani is a kafir

3) ibn uthaymeen is a kafir

4) ibn baaz is a kafir

5) all the ulama are kafirs except you, your people and your shaykh?

Weldone grin



Laughing... What exactly do you mean. Why would I call any of those people you listed and you... When I didn't see any reason to call you or them a kafir... All the conditions laid down by Quran and sunnah is not in any of those people you listed
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 5:32pm On Aug 30, 2016
@Deathstroke what is ijtihad?
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 5:38pm On Aug 30, 2016
DeathStroke007:




Laughing... What exactly do you mean. Why would I call any of those people you listed and you... When I didn't see any reason to call you or them a kafir... All the conditions laid down by Quran and sunnah is not in any of those people you listed

All the people i mentioned hold on to these proofs to show that not all bid'ah leads to kufr, and you say people of bid'ah are the only ones that make use of that proof therefore we are kafirs according to your shaykh.

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Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by DeathStroke007(m): 5:46pm On Aug 30, 2016
lexiconkabir:
@Deathstroke what is ijtihad?


Means excuse or mistake ... For example, the issue of using prayer beads, some eminent scholars supports it and some didn't. And there are just 3 ways we do select proofs for every single thing in Islam. QURAN. HADITH, WHATEVER ALL THE SAHABAHS AGREED UPON.


All our imams do say something, WE MUST NEVER FOLLOW THEM IN ANYTHING THEY SAY OR GIVE AS FATWA IF THEY DIDN'T GIVE US PROOFS ..


scholars can't know it all, when some gave fatwa of using tasbeeh while prophet, sahabahs never used it.. Although some hadith's came on tasheeh but ahlu hadith's said they are weak. The scholars might not know it's weak or they made a mistake.. In such fatwa given by anybody that goes against Quran. Hadith's and ijamh sahabah..we will not follow their fatwa on that issue... Because they can't knowingly go against sunnah...



Bidia means worshiping Allah with what Allah didn't command us to worship him with...


Whoever does bidiah due to mistake or ignorance or he was forced or due to shubha(misunderstanding) is not a kufar.......Kufar comes in when it is clear to someone that what he's worshipping Allah with is not sanctioned by Allah and still insists that that is what he will be doing.. In short, following ones desire ...good example is moulud nabiy..
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by DeathStroke007(m): 5:48pm On Aug 30, 2016
lexiconkabir:


All the people i mentioned hold on to these proofs to show that not all bid'ah leads to kufr, and you say people of bid'ah are the only ones that make use of that proof therefore we are kafirs according to your shaykh.



What I meant by bidiah people in that sentence are all those torika people who truth is understand by them but still go against the Truth
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by DeathStroke007(m): 5:53pm On Aug 30, 2016
lexiconkabir:


All the people i mentioned hold on to these proofs to show that not all bid'ah leads to kufr, and you say people of bid'ah are the only ones that make use of that proof therefore we are kafirs according to your shaykh.



Like i said. We will only follow our imams on whatever they say that they gave us proofs from sunnah...




Now rasul said, EVERY BIDIA LEADS TO HELL.

Please explain how "EVERY" can be divided into 2 or more.



Do you belief that whoever rejects a single verse from Quran is a kufar?

Allah said in Quran that HE has completed our religion and HE named it Islam..


If you believe that not all bidia is kufr... Explain by using Quran and hadith..



Anything that has to do with ibadah means Islam. And Allah said Islam is complete. Rejecting Quran verse leads to kufru..

ALL BIDIA IS KUFR. NO MATTER HOW SMALL OR BIG
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 6:10pm On Aug 30, 2016
DeathStroke007:



Means excuse or mistake ... For example, the issue of using prayer beads, some eminent scholars supports it and some didn't. And there are just 3 ways we do select proofs for every single thing in Islam. QURAN. HADITH, WHATEVER ALL THE SAHABAHS AGREED UPON.

Actually, Ijtihaad in Islam means striving to understand the shar’i ruling on the basis of shar’i evidence, but once there is clear cut proof, then no more ijtihaad.

Now marwaan did two bid'ahs;

1.) He climbed the mimbar;

2.) He made khutbah when he is not supposed to

Now a sahabi made it CLEAR to him that the prophet didnt do it that way, yet marwaan didnt listen, does ijtihad still count? No! Because clear proof came to him. Ok lets agree he did ijtihad on the case of khutbah, did he also do ijtihad in the case of climbing the mimbar?



Bidia means worshiping Allah with what Allah didn't command us to worship him with...


Whoever does bidiah due to mistake or ignorance or he was forced or due to shubha(misunderstanding) is not a kufar.......Kufar comes in when it is clear to someone that what he's worshipping Allah with is not sanctioned by Allah and still insists that that is what he will be doing.. In short, following ones desire ...good example is moulud nabiy..

Well, marwaan was told that what he did is bid'ah and he did not listen, does that make him a kafir?

Even in the Quran Allaah tells us about the bid'ah of the companions of eesa(a s) yet Allaah(azza wa jal) did not call them kuffar, HE just didnt accept the bid'ah from them.
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 6:30pm On Aug 30, 2016
While the Prophet (ﷺ) was delivering a sermon, he saw a man standing, so he asked about that man. They (the people) said, "It is Abu Israil who has vowed that he will stand and never sit down, and he will never come in the shade, nor speak to anybody, and will fast.'' The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Order him to speak and let him come in the shade, and make him sit down, but let him complete his fast."{sahih bukhari no. 6704}

1.) This man was standing under the sun with the belief that he is worshipping Allaah.

2.) What he did was clearly bid'ah!

3.) The prophet didnt call him a kafir

4.) The prophet just rejected his bid'ah and told him to continue his fasting.

5.) The prophet himself has made it clear that not all bid'ah takes you out of Islam

Do you now see your shaykh's error Deathstroke007?

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Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 6:43pm On Aug 30, 2016
I wonder why you opened this thread here, why not islam section?
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 6:58pm On Aug 30, 2016
Again, proofs that shows that kufr dismantle good deeds:

Say: Spend (in Allaah’s Cause) willingly or unwillingly, it will not be accepted from you. Verily, you are ever a people who are Faasiqoon (rebellious, disobedient to Allaah).”

And nothing prevents their contributions from being accepted from them except that they disbelieved in Allaah and in His Messenger (Muhammad), and that they came not to As-Salaah (the prayer) except in a lazy state, and that they offer not contributions but unwillingly” [al-Tawbah 9:53-54]

As we can see Allaah says he wont accept the disbelievers good deeds because of their kufr.

Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Nothing cancels out good deeds except kufr, because the one who dies as a believer will inevitably enter Paradise, and he will be brought out of Hell if he does enter it, but if all his good deeds are cancelled out, he will never enter Paradise. Good deeds can only be cancelled out by that which is their opposite, and nothing can be the opposite of all good deeds except kufr. This is well known from the principles of Sunnah.{ Al-Saarim al-Maslool (p. 55) }

1.) I have shown that Abu israil did bid'ah

2.) If his bid'ah was kufr,then the prophet would've told him that his good deed(which is fasting) has been destroyed

3.) But the prophet did not, rather he rejected only the bid'ah and asked him to continue.

4.) Quran says All kufr destroys your good deeds and this is the aqeedah of salafis.

5.) So if Abu israil bid'ah was kufr, the good deed he was doing(i.e fasting) would've been destroyed.

Your shaykh should really change his aqeedah, advice him!
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 9:47pm On Aug 30, 2016
@DeathStroke007 you and your shaykh believe scholars should not be followed, that we should just go to kitab wa sunnah direct?! Listen to this beautiful refutation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL75WHzERVL8zmR7OXSO5EKbwUVJtVY7sn&v=M23ud2t1OhE
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Empiree: 12:48am On Aug 31, 2016
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Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by DeathStroke007(m): 5:05pm On Nov 02, 2016
For you to know who Muhammad Ali Jabata is...... Visit voiceofthesalaf dot com and download his lectures
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by DeathStroke007(m): 5:07pm On Nov 02, 2016
Empiree:
.



You are a Sufi.. you need to listen to Jabata lectures and know what mess you really in
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by DeathStroke007(m): 5:09pm On Nov 02, 2016
https://voiceofthesalaf.com/audios/
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 5:09pm On Nov 02, 2016
DeathStroke007:
For you to know who Muhammad Ali Jabata is...... and download his lectures

I know him, i live in Ilorin, so i perfectly know him, i have told you and proven that he is takfiri, khalas!
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 5:12pm On Nov 02, 2016
DeathStroke007:
https://voiceofthesalaf.com/audios/

Readers for your own good, do not download anything from this site EXCEPT YOU'VE PERFECTLY UNDERSTOOD THE SUNNAH ON THE MANHAJ OF THE RIGHTEOUS SALAFS, then you can download to see his(and students) takfiri kind of preaching.
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by DeathStroke007(m): 5:13pm On Nov 02, 2016
lexiconkabir:


I know him, i live in Ilorin, so i perfectly know him, i have told you ane proven that he is takfiri, khalas!



You called a Muslim a kufar?? Do you even know what you have just said ? Do you even know the implication? Am very sure that you know nothing about him even though you live in Ilorin...... Visit the site I posted. Download takfir 1-3....

Am sure you wil thank me later...
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by DeathStroke007(m): 5:16pm On Nov 02, 2016
lexiconkabir:


Readers for your own good, do not download anything from this site EXCEPT YOU'VE PERFECTLY UNDERSTOOD THE SUNNAH ON THE MANHAJ OF THE RIGHTEOUS SALAFS, then you can download to see his(and students) takfiri kind of preaching.




You are blocking the call to Sunnah... Tell me the title of lectures of Jabata that you have listened to and tell me what he said wrong..


As long as you are listening to them say he said.. you will hate him with passion..

Before your hatred for him goes further, please and please download and listen to his lectures..
Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 5:17pm On Nov 02, 2016
DeathStroke007:




You called a Muslim a kufar?? Do you even know what you have just said ? Do you even know the implication? Am very sure that you know nothing about him even though you live in Ilorin...... Visit the site I posted. Download takfir 1-3....

Am sure you wil thank me later...

I called him a TAKFIRI not a KAAFIR, I know nothing about him and I know about his stance? grin

2 Likes

Re: Muhammad Alee Jabata Is Never A Takfiri by Nobody: 5:19pm On Nov 02, 2016
DeathStroke007:





You are blocking the call to Sunnah... Tell me the title of lectures of Jabata that you have listened to and tell me what he said wrong..


As long as you are listening to them say he said.. you will hate him with passion..

Before your hatred for him goes further, please and please download and listen to his lectures..







I am not blocking the call to sunnah, i am blocking the da'wah of Ahl takfiriyyoon.

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