Nonsense as usual, i wonder what has saudi got to do with how we dress islamically, nobody is exempted from the punishment of Allaah, funny enough his own books are even scarier on the matter, so much nonsense.

Newnas:


Nobody is a fan of garbage shia books here. Well maybe your Sufi friend!

Let's Read (again!) :

A number of our companions, from Sahl b. Ziyad, from Muhammad b. Isa, from Yunus b. Ya'qub, from Abdullah b. Ya'qub, from Abdullah b. Hilal, who said: "Abu Abdullah (as) ordered me to buy an "izar" (lower garment) for him." So I said to him: "I could not get but a large one." So Imam (as) said: "Cut from it and stitch it." Imam (as) further continued: "Indeed my father had said: Whatever extends beyond the ankles is in the fire."

I can't believe any reasonable student of knowledge will ever consider this kind of chain for research. The weakness is super obvious.

Interestingly and unsurprisingly, Mr Majlisi the shia reverend of Hadith calls it RELIABLE.

Haba!

While your brother failed to copy-past the source for the hadith, I can forgive he only copy-paste. No verification.

Anyway there is Sahl ibn Ziyad in this first chain. Most Shi'a scholars consider him weak. Al-Najashi even called him a liar.

For Sahl, the reference is:

Muhammad al-Jawahiri, al-Mufid min Mu'jam Rijal al-Hadith, p. 273, no. 5630

# As per your ignorance, Sheik Kulayni defines clearly those he tagged "A number of our companions". You only need to read introduction to his al-Kafi or Allamah al-Majlisi's Mir'at ul-huqul which grades all the ahadith in al-Kafi.

lexiconkabir:
Nonsense as usual, i wonder what has saudi got to do with how we dress islamically, nobody is exempted from the punishment of Allaah, funny enough his own books are even scarier on the matter, so much nonsense.

A coward dog usually bites the hand that fed him.

# If you have eyes at all, I clearly posted their pictures within a context. However are those Shuyukh not your Wahabi Shuyukh? The famous Quranic reciter, Sheik Abdur-Rahman as-Sudais is among faah

# Kindly show us how Shia ahadith are more scarier o. What you guys don't know about Shia is that we aren't fools that take "all" ahadith robotically like the so-called Ahl al-hadith. We investigate ahadith (not only through their chains) especially on their matn (content). And we have specific ahadith and strict guidelines which say any hadith that contradict Quran, mutawattir ahadith and Aql (intellect), is not from Nabi or the Aimmah.

# You want to go back: The first hadith is weak, while the second is sahih.

Keep'em coming

Newnas:


Nobody is a fan of garbage shia books here. Well maybe your Sufi friend!

Let's Read (again!) :

A number of our companions, from Sahl b. Ziyad, from Muhammad b. Isa, from Yunus b. Ya'qub, from Abdullah b. Ya'qub, from Abdullah b. Hilal, who said: "Abu Abdullah (as) ordered me to buy an "izar" (lower garment) for him." So I said to him: "I could not get but a large one." So Imam (as) said: "Cut from it and stitch it." Imam (as) further continued: "Indeed my father had said: Whatever extends beyond the ankles is in the fire."

I can't believe any reasonable student of knowledge will ever consider this kind of chain for research. The weakness is super obvious.

Interestingly and unsurprisingly, Mr Majlisi the shia reverend of Hadith calls it RELIABLE.

Haba!

AlBaqir warned me never to quote narrations from shi'a sources without the chain and grading, as he proudly presents such from the ahlu sunnah's collections, especially when the narration seems to favour his arguments. ..So i decided to take his warning seriously and then tried to get my hands on authentic narrations with their chains. Alas! What i found was and is scandalous! Well to be fair, their earliest scholars didn't care about the isnad, but still, what was reported in some of these narrations believed to be authentic by these scholars are "CRAZY". This has been a major challenge for the modern day shi'ah, so they would rather spend a whole lifetime finding faults in sunni collections and still quote from them trying to prove their beliefs which cannot be found in the Quran.

The modern day proselytizproselytizing shi'a has been equipped to bypass the above mentioned challenge by stating this anthem :"any narration that goes against the Qur'an is rejected". Unfortunately for them, this atempt to safe face, portends more problems, part of which is the fact that their earliest scholars were clueless as to this method of authenticating narrations which they compiled and acted upon as being true, also, how do they even use this method to check narrations with different scenarios and issues, for example, a narration having a donkey in the isnad talks about another donkey committing suicide, I wonder how they apply this method on this narration to determine its authenticity!

I can go on and on, but any reasonable person would know that something is not right with how the shi'ah have been changing what is believed to be true and authentic and what is not. If we analyse this drastic change, we can easily say that the earliest shi'a were misguided, and made lots of mistakes, that wouldn't fly, because the Imams were much closer to them unlike these modern day shi'a whose imam is absent to guide them. This is a real dilemma! Well I'llleave that for the shi'a to sort out themselves. ..

May Allah make us see the truth, accept it and work with it ameen.

sino:


The modern day proselytizproselytizing shi'a has been equipped to bypass the above mentioned challenge by stating this anthem :"any narration that goes against the Qur'an is rejected". Unfortunately for them, this atempt to safe face, portends more problems, part of which is the fact that their earliest scholars were clueless as to this method of authenticating narrations which they compiled and acted upon as being true, also, how do they even use this method to check narrations with different scenarios and issues, for example, a narration having a donkey in the isnad talks about another donkey committing suicide, I wonder how they apply this method on this narration to determine its authenticity!

..

@underline, haven't I gave you Shia ahadith that said that? Your problem is you are never ready to play by Shia ilm rijal but you want others to play by your Wahabi rules. That's pathetic.

# Do you have problem Having modern rijaali scholars?!

^^^

This is one out of many Shi'i ahadith that Sino hate to see and will never copy-paste wherever he used to copy-paste:

Muhammad b. Qulawayh and al-Husayn b. al-Hasan b. Bandar al-Qummi – Sa’d b. ‘Abd Allah – Muhammad b. ‘Isa b. ‘Ubayd:

One of our companions asked Yunus b. ‘Abd al-Rahman, while I was present, saying, “O Abu Muhammad, why are you strict concerning ahadith, and why do you frequently reject what our companions narrate? What is your reason for rejecting ahadith?” So, he replied, “Hisham b. al-Hakam told me that he heard Abu ‘Abd Allah, peace be upon him, saying: ‘Do not accept any hadith which is attributed to us except what agrees with the Qur’an and the Sunnah, or except if you find corroboration for it from our earlier ahadith This is because al-Mughirah b. Sa’id, may Allah curse him, has interpolated into the books of my father’s companions ahadith which my father never narrated. Therefore, fear Allah, and do not accept anything which is attributed to us if it contradicts the Word of our Lord, the Most High and the Sunnah of our Prophet, peace be upon him and his family, for we, whenever we narrate, we say: {Allah, the Almighty, the Most Glorious, said} and {the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him and his family, said}.’”

Yunus said: “I came to Iraq and found some of the companions of Abu Ja’far, peace be upon him, and I also found that the companions of Abu ‘Abd Allah, peace be upon him, were numerous. So, I heard (ahadith) from them and also collected their books; and I later presented them to Abu al-Hasan al-Rida, peace be upon him, and he rejected a lot of their ahadith, stating that they were not ahadith of Abu ‘Abd Allah, peace be upon him. And he said to me, ‘Verily, Abu al-Khattab lied upon Abu ‘Abd Allah, peace be upon him. May Allah curse Abu al-Khattab and the companions of Abu al-Khattab. They are interpolating these ahadith, up till this day of ours, in the books of the companions of Abu ‘Abd Allah, peace be upon him. Therefore, do not accept anything attributed to us which contradicts the Qur’an, because whenever we speak, we speak what agrees with the Qur’an and the Sunnah. We narrate from Allah and from His Messenger. And we never say {so-and-so said}; otherwise our words would contradict. Verily, the words of the last of us is the same as the words of the first of us, and the words of the first of us confirm the words of the last of us. So, whenever anyone comes to you with a hadith which contradicts this, reject it from him and say {You know, and what you have brought}. This is because with every statement from us there is reality, and upon it is light. As such, whatsoever has no reality with it and no light upon it, then it is from the words of Shaytan.”

Shi'a are not Ahl al-hadith who follow every single hadith written centuries after Nabi robotically. This, let it sink to your skull, O wahabiyyah!

@ Empiree, username: You guys talk earlier on the hygienic part of these ahadith (though you seem to be dragging differently). I quite agree on this.

# However, Sino "forgot" to copy-paste this Sahih Shia hadith:

From him, from his father, from Nudhr b. Suwaid, from Yahya al Halabi, from Abdul Hamid al Tai, from Muhammad b. Muslim who said: "Abu Abdullah (as) looked at a man who was dressed in a shirt (long Arabic shirt) that was touching the ground. So he said: [size=14pt]That dress is not tahir (ritually pure)[/size]."


Grading


Baqir Majlisi (Miratul Uqul, Volume 22, Page 339) : Sahih (authentic)
Bahboodi (Sahih al Kafi, Volume 3, Page 210): Sahih (authentic)
Ayatullah Hadi al Najafi (Mausu'ah ahadith ahlulbait, Volume 10 Page 16): Sahih (authentic)

Here's the website he copied from:

http://realtashayyu..com.ng/2012/06/trousers-above-ankles-wahabi-thing.html

So, the intent on nifsu sak according to Shi'i are:

# To limit arrogance, pride and conceit

# To avoid dirt esp najis (impure)

^

There is no way of knowing someone possessed this criteria {arrogance, pride and conceit} since they are something in the heart. We have not been granted authority to judge what's in man's heart.

However, the second reason (To avoid dirt esp najis (impure) is something obvious. It looks like this is missing from Sunni text though. Sunni text focuses only on the former. I am thinking there is more to just "pride and conceit" since that's only known to Allah. Far as I am concern the later is a strong evidence. I once listened to Sheikh Akindele's friend. I mean "Baba" as you called him. He emphasized on the najis than pride and conceit. I wonder why that part is missing though.

Indeed, agree with usermane. There are sisters whose garment drag. There is no way of knowing it could have picked up impure substance and they gonna enter masjid and pray like that.

Empiree:
^

There is no way of knowing someone possessed this criteria {arrogance, pride and conceit} since they are something in the heart. We have not been granted authority to judge what's in man's heart.

However, the second reason (To avoid dirt esp najis (impure) is something obvious. It looks like this is missing from Sunni text though. Sunni text focuses only on the former. I am thinking there is more to just "pride and conceit" since that's only known to Allah. Far as I am concern the later is a strong evidence. I once listened to Sheikh Akindele's friend. I mean "Baba" as you called him. He emphasized on the najis than pride and conceit. I wonder why that part is missing though.

Indeed, agree with usermane. There are sisters whose garment drag. There is no way of knowing it could have picked up impure substance and they gonna enter masjid and pray like that.

# Truly those characteristics are things of heart but they surely manifest out through talking, walking, behaviour, dressings etc. So, they could be apparent as well.

# Arabs are generally known to be arrogant and very tribal. Thanks to Islam. What do you expect then when the likes of Abu Jahl, Abu Lahb, Abu Sufyan et al walks through the earth exultantly with their robes dragging the floor? We have same here in Yoruba land especially among the rich class with their expensive clothes of Agbádá and sòkòtò dragging the floor - an obvious expression of arrogance and pride.

# Islam establishes libasu taqwa - adornment of those who fear Allah in an apparent very simple dressings (apart from taqwa in the heart which should radiate through limbs). Such very simple dress even make you to lower your wings since you will blend like commoners.

# On the other hands, nifsu sak could also be practice smear with arrogance. You see some brothers today with their jumpy trousers walking gallantly with pride "we are the people of sunnah". And also there are Michael Jackson's nifsu sak among the modern western fashions today.

In short, we can never put aside this first intent of the hadith. Both points are sahih!

AlBaqir:


# On the other hands, nifsu sak could also be practice smear with arrogance. You see some brothers today with their jumpy trousers walking gallantly with pride "we are the people of sunnah". And also there are Michael Jackson's nifsu sak among the modern western fashions today.

In short, we can never put aside this first intent of the hadith. Both points are sahih!

Because some people boast with the size and price of their ram is a reason for rich and sincere believers to avoid buying the best ram their money can get to seek closeness in this festival?!

You see the falsehood in your point?!

The most irrational thing a person can do is to put his reasoning above the texts of the Quran and sunnah. This is what destroyed Iblees.

Of course reasoning is allowed in our religion but it shouldn't be given preference over texts.

Well, reasoning should in itself be within parameters of shari'a.

Anyways, if we talking about "below the ankle", shouldn't be like this one. This one is a sign of irresponsible man. It conforms pretty much with what I said about picking up impure substance. EXACTLY SHOWN

^In fact the person might be humble and responsible but obviously a dirty person. So, here there is no 1/2. It should be 2/2.

AlBaqir:
^In fact the person might be humble and responsible but obviously a dirty person. So, here there is no 1/2. It should be 2/2.

Could be true. That's why we have got to re-visit and ponder over the hadith rather a mere literal face value of it.

Let's assume this man is a very humble person (which in some cases do happen with these homeless people). You would be surprised at how humble they can be when you converse with them. But obviously, except by Allah's Mercy, his salat is null and void if he prays in this condition. I was walking behind him yesterday morning and took it. It stinks from couple of feet away.

This thread again.

Resurrected by tola9ja