@paddy_lo,

The audience may not be stupid,but it is obviously lazy. Are you suggesting that we need to have events we have just watched repeated to us twice in the space of 15 minutes? Your saying that the movie is tailored to the audience simply reinforces the position being put forward.

I have travelled to many parts of Africa myself and am pleasantly surprised to see how much people take to those movies. In fact I've seen French dubbed over versions of Nigerian home videos where only one voice is used for all the characters in the whole 1 1/2 hr "blockbuster", from start to finish. Better believe it. And they simply love it. Does the fact that people love them automatically make them top quality work? All we are simply saying is they should just try a little harder to be convincing that's all.

With regards to subtlety and our culture, I seem to recall a common Yoruba saying with words to the effect that, you don't have to say some things with "all of your mouth". If that is not a cultural allusion to subtlety, then please tell me what it is.

@paddy_lo

I think I get your point but that will be more subjective from the individual posters than a general perception. My opinion is shaped by the era that preceded the home video rush;the more expensive and professional celluloid era where The Ogunde's and Eddie Ugboma help sway. If they can be that disciplined to accomodate subtlety and other rationale disposition that makes films watchable, the people in our age should do more. Now, I am not talking of format-whether celluloid of digital- here cos that will be another issue altogether but pure artistic imagination.the type we read in our plays, where 'suspension of disbelief' is expected in works of art.

I do not belief that the movies are created for cultural reasons.It sound like a very convenient excuse.At the level of editing, even takes that are otherwise okay have been known to be taken off to give the 'work' (and this is how any finished work of creativity should be seen) a wholesome look and appeal.

I think that much of the films that are the subject of this discourse have been produced and put together by people lacking in this skills.WE have taught much of west and sub saharan Africa that we dont wait on granst from the EU to produce celluloid based films and we can take over with videos that are more effective given the economy of our region.My point and cry is that we make some impact with the cotent too!

IN the university, I watched loads of plays and I am friends with many performers.I am familiar with teh amount of work that goes into a production.What I see most times when I am forced to watch is a mockery of true acting.


Many Nigerians love to watch their Home video out of nostalgia raher than a pure desire to see a great film.I may be wrong but that is what I have noticed.The point is that we are able to do much more.We have given the world great people in literature and other forms of art, we have enough from our rich minds to generate contents for our films, if we start by telling ourselves that we are not there yet!

it is then and only then that our films can reach more people and earn several times what is earned now.

@paddy_lo
you hit the nail on the head
we tend to watch for nostalgia


The real issue is that a minority of us apppreciate subtlety, the rest are perfectly fine with how most films are produced now. Even the works (including stage plays) that are good, are not as popular as the mass market productions. Marketers are interested in volumes of sales not in critics

Honestly, I feel there's more subtlety when we stick to our local language

Competition in business naturally leads to improvement in the quality of the product or service beng rendered. If the industry is not improving, then competition must have been stiffled somewhere along the line. Let's monitor the various trade bodies, labor unions and government regulators closely and we would find the source of the problem. Example: sometime ago, some actors were banned. Instead of being busy improving, they were busy sitting at home.

The actors were not banned because tehy were poor?
And how can they even improve in nigeria its not like they can go back to some drama school in nigeria after all their experience

Its the directors and producers/writers thats should improve! most of the actors are good enough for nigeria films

I have faith in our capacity to do more. yesterday, I Stayed up late to watch a Nigerian musical programme and I was so impressed with the improvement that has occurred in that sub sector of our entertainment industry.The videos that I saw can compete with so many we see on channel o and MTV.Simply because they used those channels as benchmark.

Seun said something about the absence of competition and I couldn't agree more. We only need the people who have done these wonders to musical videos to take their skill into the movie genre and we will see improvement.Me think that is what is going to happen soonest, when bright and intelligent creative people will take over our film/home video industry deploying quality thoughts and personnel that all of us Hollywood buffs will have to take notice.

I definitely do.

The problem with Naija home videos is not only a lack of subtlety, its a lack of (i) imagination (ii) originality and (iii) believability ( I believe I just created a new word) , its like, does it work?- ok lets use it then,

I once had a conversation with Sam Kargbo (a lawyer turned scriptwriter/movie producer) - myself and some friends were at some bar having drinks while rubbishing Nigerian home videos and he happened to overhear. His comment was that funding is the major deterrent, you want to hire X but the Sponsors say no hire Y instead cos he's cheaper, significant parts of your script get slashed/rewritten because it would be too expensive to film/produce what you originally wrote, etc

That being said he recommended a film he just directed (Blood Diamonds, I think - filmed in Sierra Leone) and gave us copies, we were supposed to watch it and come back there the next day to critique it but he didn't show up,

Good thing he didn't anwyay, cos we still thought it was pretty weak stuff,

I don't buy that whole idea that moives are made for house wives so there is no economic need for improvement. I think we need to subscribe to the Las Vegas philosophy: "If you build it they will come". Balogun used to be the house wife's choice for shopping but since The Palms has been opened, house wives flood Shoprite everyday buying the same things they have been buying for years. The fact that a standard is accepted does not mean it should not be improved; it just means you can continue to exploit consumers until someone shows them better.

I don't think you should even ask if Nigerians appreciate subtlety in Movies. As human beings, we appreciate subtlety everyday in communication with our fellow people so why do you think that will not translate to the movies?

Having said this, I read down the responses and it seems someone has said some part of what I am saying in some different way but that only proves the point. Maybe if we repeat ourselves over and over again we would finally hear.

Subtlety is not valued in our culture. That doesn't mean we can't appreciate good movies, but it means that our definition of what is good in a movie is different. Different, not inferior. Some good Nigerian movies are being produced, but they are not being promoted especially well. The movie buyer can't differentiate between good movies and bad ones: the producers can't even be bothered to write the synopsis on the jacket!! But why?

neva understood why they dont write the synopsis on the jacket

because if you read the synopsis, you'll get the not so subtle message the film is about, basically they write the whole story on the jacket most of the time!
even the synopsis is well spelt out you wont need to watch the film

synopsis?
You guys are crediting the home video industry-which is comprised of some informed professionals and loads of uninfromed people- with a great of knowledge.
At the risk of sounding crude, the industry is still being seen by the people who have given themselve the right to be its leaders more as a commodity market than marketing highly creative and well thought out projects.

Come to Folwuyo Bankole Street in surulere where the popular winnis Hotel( Home viedo personnel hangout) is and you will have an idea why our home video industry really needs truly creative people in all its ramifications.

gidig:

@paddy_lo

I think I get your point but that will be more subjective from the individual posters than a general perception. My opinion is shaped by the era that preceded the home video rush;the more expensive and professional celluloid era where The Ogunde's and Eddie Ugboma help sway. If they can be that disciplined to accomodate subtlety and other rationale disposition that makes films watchable, the people in our age should do more. Now, I am not talking of format-whether celluloid of digital- here because that will be another issue altogether but pure artistic imagination.the type we read in our plays, where 'suspension of disbelief' is expected in works of art.

I think the major difference between well-known Nigerian playwrights and the guys churning out Nollywood scripts is the lack of well-developed film
departments in Nigeria. People like Soyinka went to British universities to learn their craft; they have an artistic lineage and real training in what it takes to develop a world-class standard. The guys that make most Naija movies today are just video camera jockies who would be filming weddings and birthday parties if this industry hadn't blown up. We can't blame them for taking advantage of an opportunity; man must chop somehow. It's a good question to ask whether Naija people (and other Naija movie fans) want subtle, thought-provoking movies with beautiful lighting and scenery etc. though--if they did, why aren't they watching stuff like Ousmane Sembene's movies or the stuff that comes out of FESPACO? I think most of our people would say that kind of cinema "na big grammar" and not something to be enjoyed.

Many Nigerians love to watch their Home video out of nostalgia raher than a pure desire to see a great film.I may be wrong but that is what I have noticed.The point is that we are able to do much more.We have given the world great people in literature and other forms of art, we have enough from our rich minds to generate contents for our films, if we start by telling ourselves that we are not there yet

This is true, and I'm guilty of it. I watch Nigerian films with plotting and acting that I wouldn't tolerate in American or European movies. But I'm a realist; most Nigerian viewers are not interested in those kinds of movies, so it would be overly hopeful to expect producers to serve such a small market.

I think there is something to the whole argument that our culture promotes brashness--if you ask other Africans about Naijas, they always say we're loud, boisterous, confident etc. Our movies are about ostentatious wealth and how to get it; in real life, our careers are focused on the pursuit of money and we want to show it off when we have it. Subtlety might be appeciated as a deep, 'back-in-the-day' proverbial value, but while we're spraying each other during parties, buying new lace and ankara for every event, driving the most expensive cars on the road (couldn't believe the Hummers etc. I saw in VI this Christmas), shutting down a street for an all-night party etc, we've got to admit that subtlety is not our strong suit

By the way, a lot of new Naija movies do have synopses on the covers now. It's usually in small lettering on the back. We're making progress.

Good topic.

Touche!

i had 2 movies, a local and a foreign one. i chose to watch the nigerian one because i was tired. i didnt want to think. i knew even if i fell asleep in the middle and woke up at the end, i'ld still undertsnad the whole movie. and, i was right. they are very predictable and it doesnt take a genius to figure out the next scene.

we need a total overhauling in the industry.

correct me if i'm wrong. . . I'VE NOT SEEN A NIGERIAN MOVIE THAT GOT ME THINKING.!!!! have you?

Nigerian movies get me thinking. They get me thinking about how unrealistic on every level their plots are!

I've not really had the time to check all what everybody had to say. Seun, from what I've read, it seems to me like you have a lot of faith in the fate of Nollywood. It's all I can do not to totally give up hope. When sometimes I find myself in the position to watch one of those abominable movies, thinking that something better might crop up, I find out that it's worse than the last time. So much for faith.

Te problems these film makers have here can be summarised thus, in my opinion at least;

-They actually think it's an eternity to input 3 months for a project-I actually heard Shan George complaining that a movie was taking too long. What's too long? 2 weeks! Unbelieva f**king ble!!!!!

-The freaking pirates are better marketers than the makers of the crap themselves! How do explain a movie made and copies are being made before the movie's 'officially' out!

-They're solely content with making 'Home Videos'. That can never be good for any industry. But I guess even the nollywood advocates will not be willing to pay a couple of hundred bucks for any movie. Therefore they don't input anything. Garbage in, garbage out!

-They claim to be 'smart' when you confront them with the question why do you seem to target the dumbest of senile people with your screenplay, they'll retort the majority brings in the doe.

-Nobody's asking for a giant leap into sci-fi or amazing special effects. All we're asking is for a good story. Is that too much to ask for?

-Their stories seem to always be a recycled story formerly told or a remake (lowly budget) of a simple Hollywood movie they saw and thought 'I can do that'

-There is this little annoying fact! They think this industry is supposed to be a preaching media or a moral instruction class. Nobody's averse to a morally inclined story but you don't have to rub it in our faces all the time. The point is entertainment, not minitrainment.

-The most valid reason is probably the fact that these movies come out virtually at 30 per week, averaging like 4 per day. And it's not like there are many producers, it's just that each one makes too many, too quick. How then, I ask, can they be any good, huh?

-I could go on and on, but the bottomline is that these people don't cut it, but unfortunately they rule this business. I await a revolution similar to what I see in the Music scene, which really makes me proud to be a Nigerian. As for nollywood, I'm shamed!

Nigerian actors always have to open their eyes wide, wag their heads like there's no tomorrow, beat their chests like its a tom tom drum and speak out loud even when alone. The one that i hate most is when housemaids eavesdrop. Its painful to watch. The wide open mouth while peeping through the keyhole, exaggerated tip toeing and the clapping of hands. AAAAAARRGHHHHHH!

to me, i think its a matter of time and age that would make the difference,
what we have now, is not what we had then (a lot better in terms of picture quality but not story)
so if we would all learn from the humble critics in nairaland and make do with their suggestions more improvement can be made (to the stories) the bone of contention in nollywood,
everything else being equal


but they have been a couple of
good quality + and good story
bad quality + good story
good characterization + bad picture -(+) good story
e t c . . . .

According to his friends, "if you don't tell them what you mean, they'll miss the message."

Tell them is understating it, you have to hit them over the head with it, hoping the head will break open and you can now stuff it in there. It used to piss me when I'm watching a movie and they are doing this expositions soooo gba gba like that. I'm thinking in my head. . .

"Okay, they know we're not stupid right? They have got to know when we see a gunshot wound, we know it's from a gun and we don't need them to tell us it's from a gun".


Then one day, I sat through a Nigerian movie with some older Nigerian women and I finally understood why the actors have to say

"I will open this door now and enter it. This door, not that one. . . this particular one I'm standing in front of and touching now"

Guess they know their audience and that's a good thing I suppose.

Then one day, I sat through a Nigerian movie with some older Nigerian women and I finally understood why the actors have to say "I will open this door now and enter it. This door, not that one; this particular one I'm standing in front of and touching now"

Hehehe.

I commend the discussion in here, I loved it, very matured. I am a lover of Naija home videos too, and each time I summon enough courage to watch one, my usual sense of trying to figure out what is wrong with the movies always come in play. By the time I spend around 30 minutes on the movie, I must have seen one or two things that will pissed me off, sometimes, I let it go and proceed to finish watching the movie, sometimes, I ran out of gas to finish it.
Truth is, as long as the fate of our home videos is in the hands of people who are out to make profit without thinking of bringing good product out of their movies, we are in for a long shoddy movie business. I keep wondering when the people who loved movie business will take over the reign of the industries, by then, to me, would be the time when movies will be produced in this country with great finesse.
How many of ou rproducer has time to sampled the opinion of viewers before producing movies? How many of our producers have time to research into movies they want to produce? Little, We all witnessed the way Seun solicit consumers views on films in here, and how he seeks opinions, has there been any of our producers doing same? There is no even an avenue to do that? I am still waiting for the time when movie business will be in the hands of those who love movies, producing it for the love of it. Someone said earlier on about bright chaps with good vision who had taken over the music industry, it is because they love what they do, and I can see that, before long same will happen to movie business.
I hate to add two and two together while watching movies, no wonder I love to watch most of my American movies fully subtitled, so I know what exactly they are talking about, I love to know what everyone said words for words, by that way, I know what the movie is all about. Does that means a Nigerian like me appreciate Subtlety In Movies?

i agree with you that the hope of nigerian film is in the hands of the professionals
and am sure it wont be long when that would happen
lets keep our hands crossed

I quite agree wit u guys dat d movies been produced now in Nigeria are nothing 2 write home about. Apart from d display of non-professionalism in their productions, their story line (plot) is also poor in which u can always predict d ending even @ d very start of d film. Repetition of storyline is d order of d day as almost all movies ve d same concept, plot, theme, subjects & story base. Most of them as u guys said earlier are there just 4 d money and not 4 d love n passion for d work. The list is endless n it is obvious 2 everyone including d layman dat Nollywood has a long way 2 go. Even, lets talk about d impact n effect d films ve on d general audience. It is so apparent dat deir movies has succeeded in promoting & adding more 2 d societal decay in many ways i won't like 2 go into now.
The real issue now is, who are dose 2 revive dis dying industry? Already, we ve great filmmakers who ve stand dier ground n maintained dier Professionalism despite d odds in d industry. This great filmmakers include d greatest cinematography, Tunde Kilani of Mainframe Productions and d best filmmaker not only in Nigeria, but d whole of Africa, talking of d man who sustains d record of winning awards in almost all his film productions, talkin of Tade Ogidan of OGD Pictures. Both have succeeded in proving a point n making movies dat will install moral values n b of immense benefit to d society n d world @ large.
To cut d long story short, dis two great men has showcased 2 d world dat dis is wat dey enjoy doing n ve passion 4 not 4 d sole purpose of moneymaking. And as Princesa has said, it definately won't b long for d real professionals 2 come on board n take over.

well spoken T

Example of the Professionals (in Hollywood) in action

one day they shall be professionals in Nigeria

I've long stopped watching Nigerian movies. Well, apart from Tunde Kelani's. For one thing there aren't that many good Nigerian actors. The point's been made that home videos target a certain audience, and I guess Nigerian actors  figure method acting as too hard to learn, and too subtle for us to appreciate. I watch a movie for its dialogue, its beauty and the power of its performances. That's why The English Patience remains my most affecting movie experience. The more intelligent Nigerian actors employ their intelligence in carrying a role, but they've no passion for their art, and with art, passion is everything. That's why foreign actors starve themselves, change their diet, undergo a rigorous physical regimen, for the sake of their art. They would do almost anything for it. Here, it's all about the pay packet. I watched Rinko Kikuchi's performance in Babel (That year's best supporting actress oscar should have gone to her or Adriana Barraza). She portrayed a deaf-mute, and managed to convey a myriad of complex emotions, without saying a word. When are Nigerian actors going to give us that pleasure? And the stuff's in us. They harp on about how Nollywood is the third largest film industry in the world. What the hell does that  mean? Nigerian films are poor in almost every respect. If there were good dialogue I'd take the poor sound,editing and technical production- a good movie costs megabucks to produce- but there's no incentive to watch them at all. So I don't. Except for Kelanis.