Scholar8200
Let's also not forget that the individualistic nature of today's society makes a lot of dangerous people in the society. People no longer take words, oaths and promises seriously. Not even marriage. So parents have to be extra careful.

Muafrika2:
Scholar8200
Let's also not forget that the individualistic nature of today's society makes a lot of dangerous people in the society. People no longer take words, oaths and promises seriously. Not even marriage. So parents have to be extra careful.

How careful can we get? Even a marriage that comes after long courtship and full parental caution and involvement still fails! Why not therefore make the main thing, the main thing (Divine Guidance) and leave the extraneous that adds no real advantage? Once there are 3 witnesses namely couple and a spiritual leader regarding leading, that should be all. If long courtships fail, why waste time thereon?

Besides, these days, that courtship time is usually spent in giving a false assurance that you finally found the angelic sister/''jim-jim"brother of your dreams, no thanks to the pretence and hypocrisy. You know what? This might increase divorce cases because after the journey to the altar alters the alter egos into their true selves hence the expectations and fantasies, intensified by courtship, crashes suddenly and , in some cases, may never be restored.

If God is truly leading you, and there are witnesses, wanting a period of hanging on, except if HE leads you so to do, sounds like Moses wanting to send spies after he had been told to move in, the result was a fall from faith to sight!

Scholar8200
I do agree on the importance of divine guidance and it's superiority to other considerations. Though I would not advice on dependence on any third parties for the same. People should train their spirits to distinguish right from wrong and to hear from God.

Muafrika2:
Scholar8200
I do agree on the importance of divine guidance and it's superiority to other considerations. Though I would not advice on dependence on any third parties for the same. People should train their spirits to distinguish right from wrong and to hear from God.

By 3rd party what I meant was the couple being convinced first then having a confirmation from God as He may seem fit on the basis of every word being confirmed in the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses the use of 3 here being a safeguard to the couple being deceived by emotion or sight.

Muafrika2:
Scholar8200
Let's also not forget that the individualistic nature of today's society makes a lot of dangerous people in the society. People no longer take words, oaths and promises seriously. Not even marriage. So parents have to be extra careful.

If you look at the content of marriage vows, you will conclude that even Christians don't take the vows seriously

Would you......take .......to be your lawful wedded wife

Version A: I, ____, take you, ____, to be my wife (or husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy law, and this is my solemn vow.


Version B: Groom: I,____, take thee,_____, to be my wedded Wife, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I plight thee my troth.

We concentrate on the ceremony and forget that we made a vow before God.

It is better not to make a vow than to make one before God and then break it.

I guess the problem is that we don't know the definition of Love or Submission!

shadeyinka:



If you look at the content of marriage vows, you will conclude that even Christians don't take the vows seriously

Would you......take .......to be your lawful wedded wife

Version A: I, ____, take you, ____, to be my wife (or husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy law, and this is my solemn vow.


Version B: Groom: I,____, take thee,_____, to be my wedded Wife, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I plight thee my troth.

We concentrate on the ceremony and forget that we made a vow before God.

It is better not to make a vow than to make one before God and then break it.

I guess the problem is that we don't know the definition of Love or Submission!

Very true. Now this leads us to something much overlooked: most Christians know nothing about Divine Guidance and the need for continual recourse to God along the way. Why? The only time some take Divine Guidance serious is when they get to marriage. Anyone who knows about Divine Guidance will realise that once you get God's mind on something, there is need for commitment therein else there will be repercussions. Meaning, its almost like a vow that demands commitment has been taken when you seek and receive God's guidance.

If this was understood, courtship wont be necessary! We will realise that only God matters and difficulties externally or in the other person would always be taken back to Him!

Scholar8200:
How careful can we get? Even a marriage that comes after long courtship and full parental caution and involvement still fails! Why not therefore make the main thing, the main thing (Divine Guidance) and leave the extraneous that adds no real advantage? Once there are 3 witnesses namely couple and a spiritual leader regarding leading, that should be all. If long courtships fail, why waste time thereon?

Besides, these days, that courtship time is usually spent in giving a false assurance that you finally found the angelic sister/''jim-jim"brother of your dreams, no thanks to the pretence and hypocrisy. You know what? This might increase divorce cases because after the journey to the altar alters the alter egos into their true selves hence the expectations and fantasies, intensified by courtship, crashes suddenly and , in some cases, may never be restored.

If God is truly leading you, and there are witnesses, wanting a period of hanging on, except if HE leads you so to do, sounds like Moses wanting to send spies after he had been told to move in, the result was a fall from faith to sight!

My experience is that people rarely do proper courtship this days!

My wife and I stumbled on the principle while we were courting. It gave us a very deep foundation. Honestly, I still give thanks for it. We read between ourselves over 30 different christian marriage books within the 2 years of our engagement.

shadeyinka:


My experience is that people rarely do proper courtship this days!

My wife and I stumbled on the principle while we were courting. It gave us a very deep foundation. Honestly, I still give thanks for it. We read between ourselves over 30 different christian marriage books within the 2 years of our engagement.

that's much, do you still read those books in the same manner today?

Muafrika2:
Scholar8200
I do agree on the importance of divine guidance and it's superiority to other considerations. Though I would not advice on dependence on any third parties for the same. People should train their spirits to distinguish right from wrong and to hear from God.

Divine guidance is a must! There are some devils agent whose duty is to frustrate a child of God from doing his will. If the foundation is destroyed, what can the righteous do?

Although sometimes, we over-spiritualize marriage. Successful marriage is hardwork consisting of the foundations of
1. Love and Submission
2. Forgiveness
3. Friendship
4. Third Party minimisation
5 . Communication
6. Transparency and Trust
7. The God Factor

When any of the above is weak, the marriage will have problems

shadeyinka:
The second question:



Kiss!
That's another culture we have imported and it is part of us now.

However, there are several kinds of kissing:
1. Peck on the cheek or hand or forehead
2. Peck on the lips
3. Prolonged kiss on the cheeks, hand or forehead
4. French kiss

Now, there is what we call boundary rules.
1 or 2 may be safe even for unmarried believers in courtship ALTHOUGH, I totally discourage it. Because, it makes your resistance to 3 and the 4 weak. A peck lasts a max of 2 seconds any other contact more than that is "haram" forbidden. Whatever you cannot do in the presence of other believers is definitely a sin.

When it comes to fornication, the Bible did not say wait and cast out the devil. The Bible says FLEE!



Even as a married man, I flee and I am NOT ashamed to say it.

Of course 3 and 4 are totally off limits. It is impossible to do 3 & 4 without waking up the sleeping Giant (Your God given Hormones).


Maintain the discipline of NOT engaging in any form of kissing. Trust me when you get married, you will have too much of it. Satan wants you to break the hedge so that the serpent can come in and bite.

Ok, i get it. Whatever we cant do in the presence of other believers, we shd not do behind closed doors. Right.

Scholar8200:
that's much, do you still read those books in the same manner today?

Unfortunately not. We are now much more busy! Work, Children, Church, etc.

But the basics are already deeply ingrained.

shadeyinka:



If you look at the content of marriage vows, you will conclude that even Christians don't take the vows seriously

Would you......take .......to be your lawful wedded wife

Version A: I, ____, take you, ____, to be my wife (or husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy law, and this is my solemn vow.


Version B: Groom: I,____, take thee,_____, to be my wedded Wife, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I plight thee my troth.

We concentrate on the ceremony and forget that we made a vow before God.

It is better not to make a vow than to make one before God and then break it.

I guess the problem is that we don't know the definition of Love or Submission!

Definitely. Covenants are dangerous things as they have angels assigned specifically to protect the integrity of their purpose.

shadeyinka:



Seriously speaking, marriage really takes place ONLY when ALL the required activity for the wedding has been done.

That is, if ALL that is required in your community and Society is Payment of the Bride Price, then don't fool others that you want to do church wedding. Because, it implies that ALL about the wedding is Not Concluded until the church wedding is done and thisbmakes it a sin.

Don't forget that God respects Marriage institution of societies:
In Nigeria, we have :
1. Traditional Marriage
2. Civil or Court Marriage
3. Religious Marriage

God respects ALL.
If a Christian Goes for Traditional wedding let him fulfill ALL the requirements
If they decided for Christian Church wedding let them fulfill ALNthe requirements.

It is a lie of the devil to defile the Bed before Marriage.

So, in other words, if a christian couple do not have money for the wedding but does the traditional, they must not consummate the marriage until the white wedding is done?

Oyibo people no dey do Traditional oo. na only white or court.

Scholar8200:

...



If this was understood, courtship wont be necessary! We will realise that only God matters and difficulties externally or in the other person would always be taken back to Him!

Courtship is a must o!
However, it is a time to plan the Architecture of your future home. You plan everything. Children upbringing and discipline, in-laws, finance, third parties, conflict management, spiritual activities etc.

You may not agree bon everything but you will understand and respect your spouses position about certain issues.

Before we got married, I knew my wife would hardly spank our children and she knew that I will not spare the rod. We discussed it. So, when I discipline the children, she leaves the scene and doesn't interfere even when it hurts her because we came to an understanding. And she calls me to order when she feels I have overdone it.

In courtship, you decide how to treat your properties: do you want a fully jointly owned everything or you want daddy's car and mummies car. Courtship is the time to design how you want your home to look like.

The more issues ulyou deal with before marriage the less hassles you will have. The problem with most marriages is that, they only planned the wedding and do not have any script prepared for their marriage.

Marriage is the time to start implementing your design:

shadeyinka:


Wow, a tough question:

A sinner is a sinner!
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

NOTE:
The consequence of sins here on earth may differ greatly however. That is for God to judge and the effect of the spiritual laws that had been broken!

Fornication also involve the implication of soul ties AnD the risk of contracting "Spiritual HIV". That does not absolve the person who watches porn...their are also demons unleased! The future implications may be bad for both cases

What brings demons into Masturbation sir?

If demons are unleashed during Masturbation, aren't they suppose to also be unleashed during fornication?

analice107:

Ok, i get it. Whatever we cant do in the presence of other believers, we shd not do behind closed doors. Right.

Perfect!

No one is above falling when it comes to fornication. Those who succeeded do so because they put a strict limitation in what they allow themselves to do.

1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

shadeyinka:


Perfect!

No one is above falling when it comes to fornication. Those who succeeded do so because they put a strict limitation in what they allow themselves to do.

1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

I dey fear fornication.

Muafrika2:


Definitely. Covenants are dangerous things as they have angels assigned specifically to protect the integrity of their purpose.

That is very true. A vow is like a bank bond with consequence. Satan has a legal ground to hold usnto Ransome when we break a vow.

That is why the Lord says: I hate divorce!

analice107:

So, in other words, if a christian couple do not have money for the wedding but does the traditional, they must not consummate the marriage until the white wedding is done?

Oyibo people no dey do Traditional oo. na only white or court.

If they decide that they want only the traditional wedding, then they are free to live together as husband and wife.
BUT
If they plan to do church wedding after that, then it means that it is the church wedding that defines the final rite of their wedding. If they sleep together before this, it is a sin of fornication.

A christian couple can even choose to do court wedding alone andbit is a valid wedding as long as they would not put a church wedding or blessing after they have consummated the court wedding. That would be a spiritual fraud and fornication.

shadeyinka:
Most times young Christians find it difficult confiding in people close to them about LOVE, Sex, Dating, Marriage, Romance in relation to Purity and Godliness. Unfortunately, the world is setting a new standard that by the day is becoming more popular.

The aim of this post is for Christians to post Questions or ask for clarifications concerning this.

God willing, you will get an unbiased, godly Christian response that will help you to survive in this perversed generation.

Note: I will only comment on issues that seeks answers that lead to better godly lifestyles.

Stay Blessed

NB:All matured Christians are welcomed to contribute!

If I have a fiancée... Is it alright to allow her do them laundry and chores and kitchen?


NB:
No "the other room" stuff

shadeyinka:


If they decide that they want only the traditional wedding, then they are free to live together as husband and wife.
BUT
If they plan to do church wedding after that, then it means that it is the church wedding that defines the final rite of their wedding. If they sleep together before this, it is a sin of fornication.

A christian couple can even choose to do court wedding alone andbit is a valid wedding as long as they would not put a church wedding or blessing after they have consummated the court wedding. That would be a spiritual fraud and fornication.

Why then does the church recognize traditional marriage?


Any ideas?

Ranchhoddas:
Hmmmm...

Why the long hmmm? That is a man who is sold out to Christ.

Gombs:




No "the other room" stuff

No not in "Zaa oza room"

The other room
Where a woman pretends
To be weak,
So that a man
Can believe he is strong.

Where a woman pretends
To be foolish,
So that a man
Can say he is wise.

Where a woman stoops
So that a man can conquer.

The other room,
Where gods of men
Become worshippers of women,
Where leaders of thought
Become minions
Of the bleeders of blood.
Where wielders of power
Succumb to power.

The other room,
Where the brashness of testosterone
Yields to the bra straps of estrogen.

Where the bravado of masculinity
Is tamed by the wiles of femininity.
Where the turgid
Becomes the flaccid.

Three rooms
In a house
One in which a man
Believes he is king
Two in which
He realises
A woman is god!

No, not in Zaa rum

analice107:




No not in "Zaa oza room"

The other room
Where a woman pretends
To be weak,
So that a man
Can believe he is strong.

Where a woman pretends
To be foolish,
So that a man
Can say he is wise.

Where a woman stoops
So that a man can conquer.

The other room,
Where gods of men
Become worshippers of women,
Where leaders of thought
Become minions
Of the bleeders of blood.
Where wielders of power
Succumb to power.

The other room,
Where the brashness of testosterone
Yields to the bra straps of estrogen.

Where the bravado of masculinity
Is tamed by the wiles of femininity.
Where the turgid
Becomes the flaccid.

Three rooms
In a house
One in which a man
Believes he is king
Two in which
He realises
A woman is god!

No, not in Zaa rum

an ode to the other room!

Scholar8200:
an ode to the other room!

Yeah, An Oze to zaa oza rum?

analice107:



No not in "Zaa oza room"
The other room Where a woman pretends To be weak, So that a man Can believe he is strong.
Where a woman pretends To be foolish, So that a man Can say he is wise.
Where a woman stoops So that a man can conquer.
The other room, Where gods of men Become worshippers of women, Where leaders of thought Become minions Of the bleeders of blood. Where wielders of power Succumb to power.
The other room, Where the brashness of testosterone Yields to the bra straps of estrogen.
Where the bravado of masculinity Is tamed by the wiles of femininity. Where the turgid Becomes the flaccid.
Three rooms In a house One in which a man Believes he is king Two in which He realises A woman is god!
No, not in Zaa rum

*applause*

shadeyinka:


Even in the Bible times, culture changes. Eleazer gave out his daughter to a complete "stranger" based on an introduction (I am sure they never saw Abraham). Should we follow this model?


Don't forget that God recognized the Marriage of Portipher and his wife. Even though, they were Egyptians shoes marriage culture would be different.

Pick the Marriage between Boaz and Ruth, look at how it was conducted. How about the culture of kinsmen marring each others widow.

I strongly believe in the invariance of sin with location or culture. That is anything that is a sin in Nigeria, must be a sin in the remote part of China irrespective of the cultural difference.

So, the problem is not about culture it is about the presence of sin in the activities of some cultures.

Wow. Marriage lesson 101. Am happy i came in here. thank you.

analice107:




No not in "Zaa oza room"

The other room
Where a woman pretends
To be weak,
So that a man
Can believe he is strong.

Where a woman pretends
To be foolish,
So that a man
Can say he is wise.

Where a woman stoops
So that a man can conquer.

The other room,
Where gods of men
Become worshippers of women,
Where leaders of thought
Become minions
Of the bleeders of blood.
Where wielders of power
Succumb to power.

The other room,
Where the brashness of testosterone
Yields to the bra straps of estrogen.

Where the bravado of masculinity
Is tamed by the wiles of femininity.
Where the turgid
Becomes the flaccid.

Three rooms
In a house
One in which a man
Believes he is king
Two in which
He realises
A woman is god!

No, not in Zaa rum

You didn't answer the kweshun na.

The Bible says that we are meant to be living epistles read of men. Is it not better to take the words of of God found in the Bible out of it and make it our everyday life especially in Marriage and create a culture through it same as we have cultures in every tribe? We as believers are a tribe in itself because as Jesus said "we are in the world but we are not of the world".

I say this because there are many who do not want to bother about getting the details of marriage procedure from the Bible and would rather just be either shown or told without reverence to scriptures. Perhaps from those whom they look up to and respect.

I am of the opinion that we can create a culture of our own which honours scripture in totality and over time it would become a norm and because Man is wired to reject God, whenever we make scriptural references when talking about marriage to youths or would be couples they often imagine things like, "These Christians have come again" or "All this spiri spiri people" not because we are not saying the truth but the delivery is often wrong.

What do we think is the best way to package marriage info and teaching so it can be interesting to intended couples and youth and not like some burden especially when we always have to make reference to scripture when doing so?

#justasking

Scholar8200:
Very true. Now this leads us to something much overlooked: most Christians know nothing about Divine Guidance and the need for continual recourse to God along the way. Why? The only time some take Divine Guidance serious is when they get to marriage. Anyone who knows about Divine Guidance will realise that once you get God's mind on something, there is need for commitment therein else there will be repercussions. Meaning, its almost like a vow that demands commitment has been taken when you seek and receive God's guidance.

If this was understood, courtship wont be necessary! We will realise that only God matters and difficulties externally or in the other person would always be taken back to Him!

But, in a case where Brother is seeking guidance and Gods guides him to me, and brother finds me, don't you think the period that we use in putting stuff in order or we use in arranging for the marriage can be termed as courtship?

analice107:


What brings demons into Masturbation sir?

If demons are unleashed during Masturbation, aren't they suppose to also be unleashed during fornication?

Wow!
Demons may latch on to acts of masturbation. I don't think that it is in every case that demons take advantage of the act of masturbation. But it does happen and a person becomes addicted.

People think of demons in terms of hideous possessions that afflict an individual but no! Some demonic afflictions are relatively mild looking in their activities But act as door openers to more powerful demonsbof destructions.

Check out Peter who just finished declaring through the Holy Spirit that Jesus was the Son of God five minutes after , Jesus referee/called the same Peter (or actually the spirit speaking through him) "Satan"! get thee behind Me.

Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

However, today, we are not discussing demonic afflictions.

In the case if formication, the Bible says;

1Cor6:15-16
15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

The way I see it is transfer of spirits from one person to the other. Like spiritual HIV. Becoming one signifies sharing a part of your spiritual nature. If one of the parties harbour some demons, a few may relocate to their new house.

If guys hear some of this kind of confessions exposed during deliverance, when that see a free of charge. They will pick race. They are destiny destroyers.

I expect that demonic infection which could take place in fornication can be more terrible and dangerous in their activities.

Flee! Fornication!
Your bright destiny may be at stake

Scholar8200:
Very true. Now this leads us to something much overlooked: most Christians know nothing about Divine Guidance and the need for continual recourse to God along the way. Why? The only time some take Divine Guidance serious is when they get to marriage. Anyone who knows about Divine Guidance will realise that once you get God's mind on something, there is need for commitment therein else there will be repercussions. Meaning, its almost like a vow that demands commitment has been taken when you seek and receive God's guidance.

If this was understood, courtship wont be necessary! We will realise that only God matters and difficulties externally or in the other person would always be taken back to Him!

My opinion is this...Courtship is sometimes involuntary and unconsciously done whether we want to or not. Courtship does not neccessarily mean the marriage would not hold as that is not the purpose of it but as long as both of you did not meet today and get married today there will always be a period of FRIENDSHIP which is said to be COURTSHIP.

It could also be that both persons have already known each other and have been friends and by inner conviction got to know that they are meant to be together then by all means nothing stops you from tying the knot.

I once read here on Nairaland about a man who proposed and got married to a lady same day so nothing is impossible. However a lot of wrong emphasis has been placed on seeking the mind of God and praying about your partner if he or she is the right one and this process can drag for a month or 2 according to whoever gave the instruction but to me this is wrong as the only condition given in scripture for a union to occur is that both of you must be believers...as long as that is the case then that is the mind of God for you. This is not saying that God cannot speak to you directly about whom your spouse is...He does but my point is this...why seek for more when you can already see?

Courtship should be the decision of both intended couples and not imposed by any one. These days we see more cases of divorce even in the face of courtship while in the days of our fathers there was no courtship as some did not even know their spouses before marriage and their marriages lasted till death parted them but today wrong values and has eroded such realities.