gearcoin:

Since bidiah is bidiah, all bidiah is the same no matter how small it is. No strong sunnatic evidence from both hadith and Quran to support a notion that one bidiah is shirk or not shirk. In fact for every one to categorising bidiah into types is not encouraging. Leave it like that since Allah did not categorise it like he did for shirk.

Tawheed is categorized into 3, show us where Allaah categorized it into 3.

blantyre:

I am very wary of all these talks about bid'a this and bid'a. It is one subtle way salafists and wahabist brainwash people and gradually introduced their violence and intolerance. I celebrate maulid and it cannot be bid'a because the prophet used to fast on Mondays because according to him he was borne that day. So I see no harm if I celebrate his birth. Salatil fatih on the other hand is salatil nabiy like many other salawats. So pls let's be wary of this so called salafists because is just a name there is nothing salaf about them rather the preach hatred, violence and intolerance. I keep them at arms length

U raised two issues,
1. Celebrating maulud
2. Reciting salat fatih.

The prophet said, he fasts on mondays and thursdays bcuz that is d day malaaikas ascend to heaven wif deeds..and coincidentally, monday was d day he(rasullullaah) was born. So my question to you is, Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, and oda sahabas do not like d prophet ba? By not celebrating him, it is you dat is in d 14th century of Islaam dat really love him, thus ur doin maulud. Did u know dat Maulud started like 3 centuries ago?! When the best of generations of muslims have all died. If u want to engage in bidia, no one is stopping u bro, allaah knows best, but do not justify ur engaging in it, it has no basis.
On salatul fatih, rasullullaah gave us salatul ibrahimiya to recite upon him, salatul fatih was not in existence during d lifetime of d companions(who were d best of generations of muslims) and dos dat follow dem in guidance...salatul fatih started like dis maulud..not long ago, which started as a small thing, until it blossom to engaging in acts of disbelief... And from d hyping of salatul fatih, if u read one, it is tantamount to reciting d whole Qur'an 70 times, waiyadhubillah. A rule of thumb for muslims, if d best of generation of muslim do not engage in an act of worship den, it is not worth doing now!
To nutshellize it, no one is stopping u frm engaging in bidia( which is sinning on its own), but justifying ur claim. That is wrong, one might not knw wen one falls into kufr wif what we say, wallaahu allaam.

lexiconkabir:


Tawheed is categorized into 3, show us where Allaah categorized it into 3.

Bro ! Pls don't dwel into another topic. Infact that topic is a separate topic worth of our times.

The bottom line is that the Prophet (pbuh), companions, and the salaf did not divide tawheed into three categories.. the first person to make this division was Ibn Taymiyya who lived in the 14th century, so why should we be obliged to accept it to be only 3 ? the only tawheed we are obliged to follow is all the tawheed that can be proven and supported from the Quran and mutawatir hadiths.. anyways the whole purpose of the bid'ah of dividing tawheed into three, is to declare Muslims who believe in the permissibility of tawassul/tabarruk as mushriks..

Remember , I love ibn Tamiya very well, I agree with him that those 3 types hav strong evidence from Qur'an and hadith. I only disagree with him to categorise it into only three. I believe it is not limited to ONLY 3. Do you know that some even categorise it to 4 now.

Suratul iklas has even told us the whole thaoheed it is not limited to 3 .

That I why I said , since there is no single verse or hadith that categorise bidiah or support the fact of bidiah types ,just leave it like that. We can't know more than our creator . just avoid any bidiah simple as ABC.

lexiconkabir:


Doing wudhu and washing 4times instead of 3 is bidah, does that take you out of Islam?

If that person is adamant on it and Ready to continue doing it and count it as ibadah

gearcoin:

Bro ! Pls don't dwel into another topic. Infact that topic is a separate topic worth of our times.

The bottom line is that the Prophet (pbuh), companions, and the salaf did not divide tawheed into three categories.. the first person to make this division was Ibn Taymiyya who lived in the 14th century, so why should we be obliged to accept it? the only tawheed we are obliged to follow is the tawheed mentioned the Quran and mutawatir hadiths.. anyways the whole purpose of the bid'ah of dividing tawheed into three, is to declare Muslims who believe in the permissibility of tawassul/tabarruk as mushriks..

Remember , I love ibn Tamiya very well, but on this , I disagree with him to categorise it into three.
Do you know that some even categorise it to 4 now.

Suratul iklas has even told us the whole thaoheed it is not limited to 3 .

Mr, it is ijma' that there are three categories of tawheed, the prophet said ijma' is infallible.

That I why I said , since there is no single verse or hadith that categorise bidiah ,just leave it like that. We can't know more than our creator . just avoid any bidiah simple as ABC.

I have been asking one question, if all bidah is kufr, why didn't the prophet invalidate Abu israil fasting?

gearcoin:

If that person is adamant on it and Ready to continue doing it and count it as ibadah

How bout Uthman ibn madhun case? When he asked the prophet if he should refrain from sexual activity to serve Allaah, and the prophet told him no, yet he still went ahead to refrain by deserting the bed of his wife, then the wife complained to Aaishah, what did the prophet do ya akh?

lexiconkabir:


Mr, it is ijma' that there are three categories of tawheed, the prophet said ijma' is infallible.



I have been asking one question, if all bidah is kufr, why didn't the prophet invalidate Abu israil fasting?

About thaoheed, read my post again , I already modified the post before you quoted it.

Abu israil didnot adamant to it and even u can't even use that point to judge that.

gearcoin:


Abu israil didnot adamant to it and even u can't even use that point to judge that.

Yes Abu Israil was not adamant, but why was his fasting still valid? Once act of kufr enters a deed it invalidates it, why was his fasting still valid?

lexiconkabir:


How bout Uthman ibn madhun case? When he asked the prophet if he should refrain from sexual activity to serve Allaah, and the prophet told him no, yet he still went ahead to refrain by deserting the bed of his wife, then the wife complained to Aaishah, what did the prophet do ya akh?

Does he continue to act like that till his death?

gearcoin:

Does he continue to act like that till his death?

Was he called a kafir for being adamant ya akh?

lexiconkabir:


Yes Abu Israil was not adamant, but why was his fasting still valid? Once act of kufr enters a deed it invalidates it, why was his fasting still valid?

At first, tell me where some one said his fast is valid to talk more on it. Thanks

lexiconkabir:


Was he called a kafir for being adamant ya akh?

He did not called kafir because he Did not adamant to it and he quickly changes once he was corrected. Thanks

gearcoin:

At first, tell me where some one said his fast is valid to talk more on it. Thanks

The prophet told the companions to tell Abu israil to leave the sun, he should sit and he should talk but he should continue his fasting, what did the prophet, the prophet rejected only his bidah and asked him to continue the legitimate act of worship.

According to your belief, you agree that some bidiah is shirk. Now , u need to tell us the verse or hadith that confirm the one that does not lead to shirk. Simple question !

lexiconkabir:


The prophet told the companions to tell Abu israil to leave the sun, he should sit and he should talk but he should continue his fasting, what did the prophet, the prophet rejected only his bidah and ask him to continue the legitimate act of worship.

Good! The fasting is valid becos he yieded to correction and the rational behind who he fasting for has been change to good one.

gearcoin:

He did not called kafir because he Did not adamant to it and he quickly changes once he was corrected. Thanks

No no no, he was told once but he was adamant, if we are to take your argument, the prophet would've declared him a kafir for doing the bidah he asked him to leave, the prophet didn't rather he told him again.

A piece of advice brother, leave this useless aqeedah you are upon, it goes against the manhaj of the salaf, the ijma' of ulama, the ijma' of the sahabas, the understanding they had about bidah is, not all is kufr, marwan did bidah on the day of eid, he was called to order but he did not listen, did they declare him a kafir? Aaishah was still alive then, none of the sahabas declared marwan a kafir, are you better than them ya akh, are you? Leave this haddadiyyoon aqeedah, its a dangerous part to thread.

Salaam.

[quote author=gearcoin post=50402316]
The question is not about Jabata thinking. Are u telling me that it is only Jabata that preaches it. You need to see other sunni imam that said the same thing.
/quote]

Even shaytan will say he's a sunni muslim na?!

gearcoin:

Good! The fasting is valid becos he yieded to correction and the rational behind who he fasting for has been change to good one.

Lol, you don't understand do you? ONCE ACT OF KUFR ENTERS A DEED, IT CANCELS WHATEVER GOOD DEED YOU ARE DOING, to you bidah is an act of kufr, so even though he can't be called a kafir, atleast the fasting will be invalidated, don't you understand?

Allaah says;

And nothing prevents their contributions from being accepted from them except that they disbelieved in Allaah and in His Messenger (Muhammad), and that they came not to As-Salaah (the prayer) except in a lazy state, and that they offer not contributions but unwillingly”

[al-Tawbah 9:53-54]

As you can see, act of kufr cancels good deeds.

lexiconkabir:


No no no, he was told once but he was adamant, if we are to take your argument, the prophet would've declares him a kafir for doing the bidah he asked him to leave, the prophet didn't rather he told him again.

A piece of advice brother, leave this useless aqeedah you are upon, it goes against the manhaj of the salaf, the ijma' of ulama, the ijma' of the sahabas, the understanding they had about bidah is, not all is kufr, marwan did bidah on the day of eid, he was called to order but he did not listen, did they declare him a kafir? Aaishah was still alive then, none of the sahabas declared marwan a kafir, are you better than them ya akh, are you? Leave this haddadiyyoon aqeedah, its a dangerous part to thread.

Salaam.

Bro which aqeeda pls. So it is now wrong for someone to ask for genuine facts from both Quran and hadith to support your claim.

It is better for me to stick to what sharia preaches not what someone just thinking without facts. Thank you.

[quote author=RABIUSHILE04 post=50408725][/quote]
Does shaitan obey the teaches of shariah?

gearcoin:


Bro which aqeeda pls. So it is now wrong for someone to ask for genuine facts from both Quran and hadith to support your claim.

It is better for me to stick to what sharia preaches not what someone just thinking without facts. Thank you.

The sunnah has clearly shown that not all bidah is kufr, many cases has shown that. You just want to be adamant.

lexiconkabir:


Lol, you don't understand do you? ONCE ACT OF KUFR ENTERS A DEED, IT CANCELS WHATEVER GOOD DEED YOU ARE DOING, to you bidah is an act of kufr, so even though he can't be called a kafir, atleast the fasting will be invalidated, don't you understand?

Allaah says;

And nothing prevents their contributions from being accepted from them except that they disbelieved in Allaah and in His Messenger (Muhammad), and that they came not to As-Salaah (the prayer) except in a lazy state, and that they offer not contributions but unwillingly”

[al-Tawbah 9:53-54]

As you can see, act of kufr cancels good deeds.

Yes kufr cancle good deed . no doubt about that.
In your story narration, the abu lsrail left the sun . the fasting is not for sun again. The motive behind it has change. Pls understand it. Don't twist that good narration.

lexiconkabir:


The sunnah has clearly shown that not all bidah is kufr, many cases has shown that. You just want to be adamant.

All sunnah u claimed to prove that are not genuine . bring the genuine one. I will accept it. I need genuine facts . Islam is about facts .

gearcoin:

Does shaitan obey the teaches of shariah?

He believes the oneness of Allaah, also there are shayateens amongst men and jinn. Also, there are some muslims who obey teaches of sharia but still engage in major and minor sins.

gearcoin:

Yes kufr cancle good deed . no doubt about that.
In your story narration, the abu lsrail left the sun . the fasting is not for sun again. The motive behind it has change. Pls understand it. Don't twist that good narration.

SubhanAllaah, you have a hard understanding, I'm not twisting the narration, since you've agreed that act of kufr cancels good deed, the bidah Abu israil did was mixed with the good deed that he was doing which is fasting, since he has mixed "act of kufr" which is bidah(according to you) with his good deed which is fasting, then the fasting should've been invalidated.

gearcoin:


All sunnah u claimed to prove that are not genuine . bring the genuine one. I will accept it. I need genuine facts . Islam is about facts .

I have brought genuine one, which is the same proofs scholars of salafiyyah use, clearly you are not on the path of salafiyyah.

RABIUSHILE04:


He believes the oneness of Allaah, also there are shayateens amongst men and jinn. Also, there are some muslims who obey teaches of sharia but still engage in major and minor sins.

So u tink believe in oneness of Allah is the only way?
Does shaitan obey Allah and commands or does he like people to worship Allah. Let start from there.

lexiconkabir:


SubhanAllaah, you have a hard understanding, I'm not twisting the narration, since you've agreed that act of kufr cancels good deed, the bidah Abu israil did was mixed with the good deed that he was doing which is fasting, since he has mixed "act of kufr" which is bidah(according to you) with his good deed which is fasting, then the fasting should've been invalidated.

The fasting would have been invalid if he has not standed from the sun. Try to understand it.
Yes , I have hard understanding of practise without genuine shariah backing.

lexiconkabir:


I have brought genuine one, which is the same proofs scholars of salafiyyah use, clearly you are not on the path of salafiyyah.

So everybody that did not subscribe to your notion that bidiah cannot be categorised is not salafiyah?
Continue...
That is your own opnion sir.

And beside not all salafiyah suncribed to you points. Just believe the one that have strong facts from shariah.

gearcoin:

The fasting would have been invalid if he has not standed from the sun.

Oga o, you just agreed that act of kufr cancels good deeds, to you bidah is act of kufr, now his bidah was to stand under the sun, then what act would that bidah cancel?

lexiconkabir:


Oga o, you just agreed that act of kufr cancels good deeds, to you bidah is act of kufr, now his bidah was to stand under the sun, then what act would that bidah cancel?

I can now see u did not understand it at all. Well I cant force you understand my points.

The quesion to answer and clarify is,, give strong evidences from hadith or Quran that categorise bidiah after all, shirk can be. Categorise from shariah.
If you categorise bidiah, who categorise it ? Is it from people thinking

gearcoin:

So everybody that did not subscribe to your notion that bidiah cannot be categorised is not salafiyah?
Continue...

Yes, the thing that makes you a salaf follower, is following every single understanding of the deen that they had, once you deviate from one, you are not on the path any longer.

Who is your uztadh? Rosheed Mustopha or Muhammad Ali Janata?