solite3:

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear[b]: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; [/b]yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Mark 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

The fire of hell does not quench neither does its worm dies
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The torments never ends!

The shame and regrets never ends!

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


You are warned Hell is real!



Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Wilgrea7:


i didn't modify any word... if u claim Yahweh is trying to modify the bible then why are there still many of his followers who believe in this doctrine? the false doctrine was introduced by the roman Catholic church. their biggest mistake was letting us have our own bible

Wilgrea7:

this is very nice... what u said about protestants is very true.. too much bigotry.. everyone pointing fingers... that's d main reason I'm not fused with denominations....so the Catholic isn't the Antichrist?? its still a question on my mind that I've not clarified..

I've read some books like the book of Enoch sha.. I'll continue reading others at my spare time. i consider myself a lost sheep
but i sincerely do not think today's church is my home

Peacefullove:


So devil and his angels will have everlasting life too ?

Genesis2000:


Welcome sir. I have been following this thread. And i don't know what else to add, you have said it all. Infact i have even learn more from you today.

You remember i told you last time on the other thread. That i decided to reserve my comments on some of the issues like this, that otherwise they will thought i am encouraging iniquity.

All what you said here is what i have always hold on to right from the onset.

I will use the reply button later later when am through.

Thank you.

TheSixthSense:

There has been many people, mostly dedicated ministers that have converted to catholicism in spite their experience and years in protestant/pentecostal ministry. It is extremely difficult not to if one reads the early church fathers, history and the writings of the early Saints.
Right from the 16th century reformation, if you read early works of reformers they have always called the Roman catholic pope the anti-christ, and believe it or not protestantism puts that in the subconscious of their adherents.
What led me to christianity was related to catholicism so I wasn't judgemental about them, for one I knew their priests were more open to questions about what they do that protestants don't understand and disagree with. A business man who converted to catholicism said ''As a business man and I would say that any business that has lasted for 2000 years has to be the real deal. It is the real deal.' One has to critically think why as a christian one condemns the catholic church and the catholics? and if you look for answers you may find that you follow men in their bigotry and trace it back to the 16th century reformers.

Another thing is that Rome is known for adding to their creeds what breeds suspicion like centuries after the reformation, it added papal infallibility ie. The decree of the Pope is amen and final. They also have the pope as the head of the church and vicar of Christ (remember the pope is a bishop of Rome like others in say Alexandria which do not add these infallibility and vicar privileges) which the orthodox and protestants oppose saying Christ is the head of the church. However, no catholic or even the pope would admit to and say the pope is the head of the body of Christ but it is in their creed that he is the head of the Church.

I had a discussion with a priest who said the accusations of anti-christ have come from both sides over the centuries, the orthodox and protestants, however he said the closest anyone fit the description of anti-christ was Mohammed, appearing as an angel of light.
The Catholic church isn't the anti-christ and I don't think it can be. There has been scandalous popes and decent popes but christians have always worshipped God as catholics since its inception. It is even the catholic church that always tries to lead the ecumenical movement to unite christians as one as Jesus prayed in John 17 but the protestants almost instantly reject and are too many to even begin with. The Orthodox also would not accept unless the church of Rome changes it's creed. But fundamentalist Islam is clearly what is anti-christianity and anti-christ especially with the rise of extreme these groups of terror and death.

There is no Enoch in the Orthodox or Catholic bible. I still watch what I read but it's all good as long as you know why you are reading it.

solite3:

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear[b]: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; [/b]yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Mark 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

The fire of hell does not quench neither does its worm dies
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The torments never ends!

The shame and regrets never ends!

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


You are warned Hell is real!



Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Wilgrea7:


if they tell you that you're promoting iniquity, tell them that that they're promoting the false image of a wicked god.

for the fact someone doesn't agree with the truth doesn't make it false..

God bless

Genesis2000:


can you imaging?

I told a preacher here that can you put your son in a hot oven or fire for just twenty four (24) hrs and watching him tormented there and you're there staring at him, just because he disobeyed you?
He was speechless. Can you imaging? He then trying to corner it and said God can not do it to his son. Can you see? he doesn't want to answer strait question. Are we not all children of God? I was saying can you? But he was saying a different thing. Now if man who is wicked can not be able to do it, for just 24 hrs without changing his mind how on earth will our heavenly, merciful, gracious, and righteous father now do it for everlasting life. Which is more that trillion and trillion years. Does it make any sense atall?

What this individual were also saying is that man is more loving merciful, and than God.

There was a place where Jesus was teaching in Matthew, he said if you who were evil can give good gift to your children how much more will your heavenly father give to those who asked from him. Matthew 7;11 and Luke 11; 13.

Scholar8200:

Now ,sir, compare your explanation with what Jesus said here:

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched
Mark 9:47,48

Do you notice any correlation or contradiction?

MrMystrO:

But if you really wanna Know the REAL TRUTH about the deep questions in your Heart, Go do your research very well bro And you will find out that through Knowing the Real TRUTH, You gain True Freedom.

Before you start your research, (That is if you want to, and if indeed you have an open mind) You can start by examining the writings and revelations of a 20th century clairvoyant named edgar cayce about 15 important topics we all seek answers to, and his writings might serve as a Good start to understanding the fundamental Truths of the universe and Help you in your search for Real TRUTH.

solite3:

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear[b]: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; [/b]yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Mark 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

The fire of hell does not quench neither does its worm dies
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The torments never ends!

The shame and regrets never ends!

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


You are warned Hell is real!



Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

I will quote the same write up i just did to a fellow brother not so long ago, and i think you deserve to hear it too.

My friend, that was not Jesus Or any of his apostles talking, that was the work of the Early roman Christians sect in association with the roman government at that time to alter the words of an enlightened man to promote the concept of eternal damnation through hell fire, In a bid at establishing Christianity as the only or dominant religion in the world, thereby keeping all men in the line of the christian religion using the fear of hell as the ultimate weapon to achieve this feat. The bible you place all of your faith in is a thoroughly edited and over manipulated manuscript devised by the decaying roman empire, through the combinations of books, some being historical writings of enlightened men of old, and some mere formulated myths, coined together solely for the means of global domination through mental slavery for all men. That was why for 1,400 years they persecuted anyone who said or believed in anything contrary to the beliefs of Christianity, By gruesome torment or burning to a stake, Ushering in a time known as the Dark Ages, just for the sake that all men are mentally enslaved by the belief of the choice of either Christianity or eternal fire and torment for all Eternity. Jesus did not teach and NEVER taught about hell fire or eternal damnation. Go and read the old, raw and untouched book of the apostles about the life of Jesus which was recently discovered by archeologists in recent times, and you will discover a whole other story my friend. Jesus even taught extensively about re-incarnation(being born again) as the means of repayments of ones sins and evil deeds in his lifetimes, by coming on other lifetime journeys to the earth again to re pay back his negative deeds and cleanse his negative karma, and through multiple lifetimes of repayment, through suffering, misfortune and horrible events caused by the effects of the the negative karma surrounding such an individuals soul, Eventually the negative karma of that soul will be fully cleared, thereby achieving redemption and the soul will then be allowed to move into a higher state of consciousness/existence (which u can also call heaven). This is the Destiny of all Souls. NO SOUL IS DESTINED FOR ETERNAL DAMNATION, BECAUSE ALL SOULS ARE FRACTIONAL MANIFESTATIONS OF THE ULTIMATE SOUL, THE ETERNAL MULTIDIMENSIONAL CONSCIOUSNESS AND CREATOR OF ALL THINGS WHICH IS GOD, THEREFORE ALL SOULS EXISTED PRIOR TO CREATION ITSELF AND IN THE PLAN LAID DOWN FOR ALL SOULS BY THE ULTIMATE MULTIDIMENSIONAL CONSCIOUSNESS OF THE CREATOR, NO SOUL IS GIVEN MORE THAN IT CAN BEAR AND IN THE END WILL AND MUST ACHIEVE REDEMPTION FROM THE SOUL TRAP OF THE EARTH REALM, THEREBY RETURNING TO ITS ORIGINAL PURE STATE PRIOR TO CREATION, AND BECOMING ONE AGAIN WITH THE ETERNAL CREATOR. These teachings of Jesus about the doctrine of re-incarnation was thoroughly erased by the roman christian founders working with the ceaser to further Strengthen and solidify their own doctrine of an eternal state of fiery torment for the payment of ones evil deeds and which there is no Redemption or pardon for the whole of eternity just for the sins committed in just one lifetime. This is the BIGGEST LIE of all ages and people need to be aware of it. The message of Jesus, and every other enlightened Clairvoyant that came as, Jesus, Mohamed, Buddha, Zoroaster and all the rest of them was just a very simple but extremely powerful message which they all shared in common. And this message was the GOOD Message of LOVE, and You only need to Honestly with all your heart, keep doing just three things to clear your negative karma and eventually achieve redemption which is through THINKING GOOD THOUGHTS, DOING GOOD DEEDS AND SPREADING LOVE TO EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING AROUND YOU, EVERYWHERE YOU GO. LOVE is the strongest force in the universe because it was the Force the universal multidimensional consciousness in which we all call God, Used to bring all of existence and creation into being, It is the Only Force that can be used to erase the negative karma of the soul and that Force reveals itself through TRUTH. We have all been misled into thinking we know the truth, when really we are just trapped by group of people, who want us exactly where we are by taking advantage of the inner powerful force in all humans that drives us towards search for the truth about our existence, And enslaving us through that thought by making us think we know the truth, when really we have all just been misled for some selfish global world domination purposes. I Know all your bases of belief has always been in the bible which is still in all fairness not a bad manuscript to base your beliefs on, But if you really wanna Know the REAL TRUTH about the deep questions in your Heart, Go do your research very well bro And you will find out that through Knowing the Real TRUTH, You gain True Freedom.

Before you start your research, (That is if you want to, and if indeed you have an open mind) You can start by examining the writings and revelations of a 20th century clairvoyant named edgar cayce about 15 important topics we all seek answers to, and his writings might serve as a Good start to understanding the fundamental Truths of the universe and Help you in your search for Real TRUTH.

This is the site here: http://www.near-death.com/paranormal/edgar-cayce.html

(only read the 15 NDEs and afterlife index of edgar cayce himself first, before the other articles)
Have a great and wonderful day bro, Remain Enlightened and blessed.

TheSixthSense:

Isn't this the bestl advice? "...Go do your research with an open mind BUT before you start your research read..."

Genesis2000:


@schoola8200
thanks for the bolded.
I was about to comment on it.

And back to you. Read the bolded again God never promise Devil an everlasting life. May be is a typo error.

Yea, according to that very passage. Prepared for the devil and his angels. This this show that that place was not ment for man originally? Can you see that? Why was that kind of punishment made for devil? The answer is that the Satan was not made with sand (dust) but with fire. So Satan will return to where he came from while man will return to dust. There is no other truth that is greater than this.
Read what God told Adam after their disobedient. In Genesis.

Because you have done this, dust you are and to dust shall you return. My dear no be me talkam, na God use him mouth talkam.

But to those who has met his requirement. (Jesus) he will raise them from dust and grant them everlasting life as he originally planed for Adam. Jesus is the requirement of God. That is the only things that you need to have or get access to eternal life.

Did you understand my gospel?

Genesis2000:


@schoola8200
thanks for the bolded.
I was about to comment on it.

And back to you. Read the bolded again God never promise Devil an everlasting life. May be is a typo error.

Yea, according to that very passage. Prepared for the devil and his angels. This this show that that place was not ment for man originally? Can you see that? Why was that kind of punishment made for devil? The answer is that the Satan was not made with sand (dust) but with fire. So Satan will return to where he came from while man will return to dust. There is no other truth that is greater than this.
Read what God told Adam after their disobedient. In Genesis.

Because you have done this, dust you are and to dust shall you return. My dear no be me talkam, na God use him mouth talkam.

But to those who has met his requirement. (Jesus) he will raise them from dust and grant them everlasting life as he originally planed for Adam. Jesus is the requirement of God. That is the only things that you need to have or get access to eternal life.

Did you understand my gospel?

TheSixthSense:
.

TheSixthSense:

About Bibles, the Orthodox bible contains books that are not even in the Roman catholic bible and it's old testament is translated from the Septuagint (LXX). Most of the Bibles in circulation and on apps and the internet have old testaments translated from the Masoretic texts (MT).

The Catholics and Orthodox document every doctrine and decision on dogma and even sermons(catechisms) even from the early centuries and their teachings are based on interpretations of early Saints and apostles, the people that knew the first apostles that Christ chose. Sorry for the long post I just had to share.

Peacefullove:


and how many of those who died and come to life in your bible claim to visit heaven or hell when they died ?

Some versions of the bible translates Sheol or hades as GRAVE . KJV inclusive , so which means the richman lifted up his eyes in the grave hehehehe. only a fool will believe this really happened .


moreover in that Mark 9:44 u earlier affirm , some verses of that chapter mentioned the founder of the Christian religion , Jesus saying eyes , hands go to hell . to finalise it he said at Mark 10 vs 28 that Body go to hell too, DO YOU BELIEVE THIS ? and how many bodies have have u seen disappeared from mortuary to hell in recognition of Matthew 10:28 ? or is Jesus lying here ?

many of you can't answer this things .


am surprised at Revelation 20 vs 10 , wow solite3 pls in simple English what is everlasting life . will the devil also have it ? define it first and let's see if the devil burning in a fire for everlasting doesn't prove the guy have everlasting life

solite3:

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear[b]: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; [/b]yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Mark 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

The fire of hell does not quench neither does its worm dies
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The torments never ends!

The shame and regrets never ends!

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


You are warned Hell is real!



Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

concerning this your fire quenched worm dieth... i have adressed this issue in Isaiah 66:24 which says the same thing but points out that they'll[b] be carcasses(dead)[/b] and they will waste away

concerning Daniel verse... see below

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

again... the rich man and Lazarus is a PARABLE and i can prove it.. if you want to know then just say so... also.. do well to explain all these verses below in the light of everlasting torment

Wilgrea7:





if the worms cannot die and the fire cannot be quenched it only tells me that the fire cannot be put out.. and also talks about the immortality of the worms that will eat the person [b]until he/she is nothing [/b]and not the immortality of the person being destroyed... does that answer your question?? rather, tell me where it is written that the people will burn and the fire will not consume them..
your worms not dying is clearly proven by Isaiah when he said the carcasses will be burnt and their worms will not die.. carcass means something dead, without life.. it also means the body of a SLAIN animal

Isaiah 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

as you can see... the slain of the lord that was the carcass Isaiah was referring to
.. before u start quoting out of context.. also the second verse shows they will be CONSUMED together... so your carcass burning logic has failed there

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

all these verses above talk of eternal judgement eternal redemption.. you won't agree that the judgment continues for all eternity or that the redemption continues for all eternity... but u imply that the punishment goes on for eternity.. its called punishment not punishing.

as you can see , eternal/ everlasting punishment/judgement/redemption is the one in which its results are eternal... when you are judged, the result of the judgement is eternal/everlasting.. so also the punishment.. so please stop twisting d scriptures

so please stop deceiving yourself that the punishing will go on for eternity

also.. concerning your forever and ever... i dunno why u choose to ignore facts staring at you in the face... i showed u that for ever and ever has been used 56 times in relation to things that has already ended... you didn't agree... i showed u the case of jonah as proof... u didn't agree

Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

i showed u the case of edom which uses the exact same structure and yet in later verses it was shown that edom was a wasteland for vultures.. yet you didn't agree... I've given you all evidence right in the face that even a normal unbiased person reading them will see the truth in what I'm saying.. yet you disagree... I've told you twice to explain the anhilation verses in the picture i sent in the light of eternal torment .. yet u disagree.. why?

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and
the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch ." Malachi 4:1.

concerning the rich man and lazarus... i will post it very soon

solite3:
i av addressed these issues.
@bold those are you words not what the bible says.

Look at what the bible says,

Revelation 14:11 And the [b]smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, [/b]who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Wilgrea7:



In the case of Revelation 14:9-11, this passage is solely referring to those who have chosen to worship the beast and receive his mark during the 7-year tribulation period. This is apparently a heinous sin to God and therefore these people will be punished very severely.

The second reason we can’t take Revelation 14:9-11 as a reference to never-ending conscious torment is because this passage has a “sister text” which uses the very same terminology where the meaning can’t possibly be mistaken. This sister text is from the Old Testament and is therefore the foundation upon which Revelation 14:9-11 rests. Let’s go ahead and observe this passage:

Isaiah 34:9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. 34:10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Observe how Isaiah 34:9-10 and Revelation 14:10-11 use the same terminology:

her dust [will be turned] into burning sulfur
He will be tormented with burning sulfur

its smoke will rise forever
 the smoke of their torment rises forever

It will not be quenched night and day
There is no rest day or night

Reading this passage we get the strong impression that the kingdom of Edom will burn forever and ever without end but the entire rest of the chapter renders this interpretation impossible. The rest of the chapter shows that Edom will become a desolate desert inhabited by owls, jackals and hyenas. Verses 5 & 6 state that the people of Edom will be “totally destroyed” and slaughtered, and Obadiah 10 & 18 back this up, stating that Edom will “be destroyed forever” — consumed by the fire of God’s judgment and wrath


Isaiah 34:11 But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness. 34:12 They shall call the nobles thereof to the kingdom, but NONE SHALL BE THERE, and all her princes shall be nothing. 34:13 And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, and a court for owls.

as you can see above edom was turned into a wasteland..... none shall be there... also like revelation

raphieMontella:
Morning sire...

bros i dont understand this your *wayo* style....
By catholic,i mean the practices/rituals of the early church inline with today...
Also..the rcc was not created in 1054...thats pure bullshvt...(forgive the words)
Its like saying if biafra separates from nigeria today...then nigeria started existing today...
The bishop/church of rome was the authority of the churches in early christianity to a great extent and its ''popes'' are apostolic successions of peter up till todays Rcc..it was because of papal supremacy and some theological beliefs of the church then..that made the
The east separate from the west and not the other way round
They only took up Rcc for better indenntification as the eastern orthodox still called themselves catholic at that time before they changed it to orthodox...

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see ehn..i can give you bishops of the church of rome and alexandria and their beliefs...and see if its not in rhythm with the rcc..like the veneration/worship/honour of mary
Better still..
Read up second century apologist;Justin Matyr's description of the sunday mass..
When the apostles creed and nicence creed was made...
What the Council of ephesus in 431 was about..

solite3:
i av addressed these issues.
@bold those are you words not what the bible says.

Look at what the bible says,

Revelation 14:11 And the [b]smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, [/b]who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

achorladey:
I feel this issue had been over flogged in an earlier thread. The question left on that thread begging for answers is.... What goes into the eternal fire meant for torment, the body the spirit or the soul? Those on that thread are still here with blind argument. Please provide answers.