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How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? - Religion - Nairaland

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There Are Atheists Who Acknowledge the Existence of the Creator of the Universe / How Can Jesus Be GOD Almighty In The Light Of The Following Verses? / How Can Jesus Be Both God And God's Son? (1) (2) (3) (4)

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How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:02pm On Nov 15, 2016
The Firstborn Creator?

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made" (John 1:1–3).

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him" (Colossians 1:15–16).

"Yet I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, today I have begotten You" (Psalm 2:6, 7).

"For to which of the angels did He ever say: You are My Son, today I have begotten You? And again: I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son? But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: Let all the angels of God worship Him" (Hebrews 1:5, 6).

How could Jesus be the Creator (John 1:1–3) if He was the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15)?
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by KingEbukasBlog(m): 6:10pm On Nov 15, 2016
It means as an eternal God who is one with the Father (Yahweh) , He created the universe - this validates the trinity concept of GOD

1 Like

Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Freetech: 6:48pm On Nov 15, 2016
OLAADEGBU:
The Firstborn Creator?

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made" (John 1:1–3).

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him" (Colossians 1:15–16).

"Yet I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, today I have begotten You" (Psalm 2:6, 7).

"For to which of the angels did He ever say: You are My Son, today I have begotten You? And again: I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son? But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: Let all the angels of God worship Him" (Hebrews 1:5, 6).

How could Jesus be the Creator (John 1:1–3) if He was the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15)?


It is like asking how is it possible for a man to be a father of his children and also a husband to his wife.

Read John1:1-14 and Prv8:22-36. He is the Word of God, by Him all things were created. vs 14 of Jhn reveal He was made flesh through virgin birth because the Word need to have blood to save mankind from their sin. Without shedding of blood no remission of sins. Heb9:22.Just as we cannot separate your word from your person though you may be in Nigeria and your word continue to operate in far away UK. In the same vein Jesus cannot be separated from God.

1 Like

Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Freetech: 6:48pm On Nov 15, 2016
This is the mystery of the Cross and Christian faith
.

2 Likes

Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Scholar8200(m): 6:55pm On Nov 15, 2016
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Colossians 1:15-17

Take note of the colon that ends vs 15

No w a colon is used:

Use a colon between a grammatically complete introductory clause (one that could stand as a sentence) and a final phrase or clause that illustrates, extends, or amplifies the preceding thought. If the clause following the colon is a complete sentence, it begins with a capital letter
http://www.apastyle.org/learn/faqs/colon-use.aspx

Now that we have settled that, Christ is referred to as the First Born because He created all things as vs 16 shows. He is the Origin of all things and the Sustainer thereof as vs 17 shows.

But, there were no colons in the original manuscripts?

Note that the translators were doing exactly that, not transliterating. Now, in the greek as shown here - http://biblehub.com/interlinear/colossians/1-16.htm - we see that the vs 16 starts with the word, BECAUSE, meaning the reference to Jesus as FirstBorn is as a result of the points found in Vs 16.

The very fact that vs 16 starts with the word 'because' shows that it was a single sentence continuing (also bear in mind that the break down to chapters and verses was not part of the manuscripts.)

1 Like

Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by jossypet(m): 7:04pm On Nov 17, 2016
He was the first to be born-again.
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by jcross19: 8:13pm On Nov 17, 2016
In order to agree with all the terms in the bible we fall into the pit of confusion. Jesus said me and my father are one. John 1 vs 1 to 3 only indicate how in unity jesus is with God. Remember that jesus is our advocate to God then ask yourself can God be advocate to himself for us ? Does it make sense. John 6 vs 14 he said I am the way , the truth and life: no one come unto the FATHER except by ME now think there are persons in that sentence the father which is God and ME which is Jesus....

2 Likes

Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:21am On Dec 21, 2016
OLAADEGBU:


The Firstborn Creator?

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made" (John 1:1–3).

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him" (Colossians 1:15–16).

"Yet I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, today I have begotten You" (Psalm 2:6, 7).

"For to which of the angels did He ever say: You are My Son, today I have begotten You? And again: I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son? But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: Let all the angels of God worship Him" (Hebrews 1:5, 6).

How could Jesus be the Creator (John 1:1–3) if He was the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15)?

Suggested answer:

https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-christ/jesus-is-god/the-firstborn-creator/
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Wilgrea7(m): 2:36pm On Dec 21, 2016

Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:43am On Dec 22, 2016
OLAADEGBU:


Suggested answer:

https://answersingenesis.org/jesus-christ/jesus-is-god/the-firstborn-creator/

Off the cuff, the first thing that needs to be established is that Christ is the Creator God as these passages reveal. Otherwise, Christ would have been the uncreated creator of the resultant created being, which is obviously illogical!

The alleged contradiction results from an improper understanding of the phrase "firstborn over all of creation" and the meaning and date of the "begetting." Do these really mean the "first created entity" at a time near Creation, which some claim is implied here? Absolutely not. A Christian apologist has even pointed out that there is a Greek word for "first created," and it was not used in this instance.1

The context of the Psalms and Hebrews passages is clearly of the time of Jesus' ministry on earth, indicating his incarnation some 2000 years ago, not the Beginning or not an alleged beginning to His actual existence.

To be continued...
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:42pm On Dec 23, 2016
OLAADEGBU:


Off the cuff, the first thing that needs to be established is that Christ is the Creator God as these passages reveal. Otherwise, Christ would have been the uncreated creator of the resultant created being, which is obviously illogical!

The alleged contradiction results from an improper understanding of the phrase "firstborn over all of creation" and the meaning and date of the "begetting." Do these really mean the "first created entity" at a time near Creation, which some claim is implied here? Absolutely not. A Christian apologist has even pointed out that there is a Greek word for "first created," and it was not used in this instance.1

The context of the Psalms and Hebrews passages is clearly of the time of Jesus' ministry on earth, indicating his incarnation some 2000 years ago, not the Beginning or not an alleged beginning to His actual existence.

To be continued...

And consider this passage:

"I have found My servant David; With My holy oil I have anointed him. . . . Also I will make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth" (Psalm 89:20, 27).

Take notice how David has been allotted the position of firstborn! However, David was the youngest—and not the firstborn—of Jesse, his father; the firstborn was Eliab as indicated in 1 Samuel 17:13. Take notice in Psalm 89:27 how God assigns this title. Consider also Ephraim's inheritance of the title of firstborn (Jeremiah 31:9), even though he was the younger (Genesis 41:51–52).

Like David and Ephraim, Jesus also received this title. David and Ephraim were obviously not the first created entities, and so it would be illogical to make the claim that Jesus was created due merely to the endowment of this titleship. Hence, there is no contradiction. Jesus is both the Creator and the One who inherited this elite title.
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Ahmed445: 6:53am On Sep 14
OLAADEGBU:
The Firstborn Creator?

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made" (John 1:1–3).

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him" (Colossians 1:15–16).

"Yet I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, today I have begotten You" (Psalm 2:6, 7).

"For to which of the angels did He ever say: You are My Son, today I have begotten You? And again: I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son? But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: Let all the angels of God worship Him" (Hebrews 1:5, 6).

How could Jesus be the Creator (John 1:1–3) if He was the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15)?

Then this is in contradiction with many passages in the Bible: (Deuteronomy 4:39): “... that the Lord, He is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath; there is none else”; (Deuteronomy 6:4): The first commandment “Hear, O’ Israel: The Lord our God is One Lord”; (Isaiah 43:10-11): “... that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He; before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside Me there is no saviour”; (Isaiah 44:6): “Thus saith the Lord.... I am the first, and I am the last; and beside Me there is no God”; (Isaiah 45:18): “For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited. I am the Lord; and there is none else.” From Isaiah 45:18, alone we can conclusively say that God alone was the Creator and no one else, not even Jesus, participated in the creation. See further: Deuteronomy 4:35; Exodus 8:10; Il Samuel 7:22; 1 Kings 8:23; I Chronicles 17:20; Psalms 86:8,89:6 and 113:5; Hosea 13:4; Zechariah's 14:9. still have alot to say about it ... so let's assume again that the bible has many contradicting verses is either one is write or we assume both are wrong... if u need more back up from the bible to back it up... thanks
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by OLAADEGBU(m): 7:52am On Sep 14
Ahmed445:


Then this is in contradiction with many passages in the Bible: (Deuteronomy 4:39): “... that the Lord, He is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath; there is none else”; (Deuteronomy 6:4): The first commandment “Hear, O’ Israel: The Lord our God is One Lord”; (Isaiah 43:10-11): “... that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He; before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside Me there is no saviour”; (Isaiah 44:6): “Thus saith the Lord.... I am the first, and I am the last; and beside Me there is no God”; (Isaiah 45:18): “For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited. I am the Lord; and there is none else.” From Isaiah 45:18, alone we can conclusively say that God alone was the Creator and no one else, not even Jesus, participated in the creation. See further: Deuteronomy 4:35; Exodus 8:10; Il Samuel 7:22; 1 Kings 8:23; I Chronicles 17:20; Psalms 86:8,89:6 and 113:5; Hosea 13:4; Zechariah's 14:9. still have alot to say about it ... so let's assume again that the bible has many contradicting verses is either one is write or we assume both are wrong... if u need more back up from the bible to back it up... thanks

Let me show you how the Word of God does not contradict itself taking Isaiah 43:10-11 that you brought up into consideration.

"You are My witnesses, says the LORD, and My servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He: before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after MeI, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no saviour," (Isaiah 43:10,11).

This is the question:

Is God the Saviour of the world?

If you study this verse I quoted above objectively, you will discover the following:
 
There always has been and always will be only one true God.

There is no Saviour of the world except for this one true God.

Therefore, the Saviour of the world must be the one true God.

This leads to another question:

Is Jesus the Saviour of the world?

I do not think that anyone who has read the New Testament would dispute this.  The Bible refers to Jesus as the Saviour: "and of the Saviour of us, Christ Jesus" --Titus 2:13.

Therefore, since:

The one true God is the only Saviour of the world (Isaiah 43:10,11), and

Jesus is the Saviour of the world (Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1),

Jesus must therefore be the one true God. No contradiction.

To deny that Jesus is the one true God, one would either have to deny that Jesus is the Saviour, or say that God is lying to us in Isaiah 43:11.  Neither alternative fits with Scripture.

Does Titus 2:13 teach that Jesus is God our Saviour?

In Titus 2:13 it states the following:

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify to Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

It is clearly stated from the Holy Scriptures quoted here that it is Jesus who is our great God and Saviour. There is no contradiction.
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Ahmed445: 9:59am On Sep 14
OLAADEGBU:


Let me show you how the Word of God does not contradict itself taking Isaiah 43:10-11 that you brought up into consideration.

"You are My witnesses, says the LORD, and My servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He: before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after MeI, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no saviour," (Isaiah 43:10,11).

This is the question:

Is God the Saviour of the world?

If you study this verse I quoted above objectively, you will discover the following:
 
There always has been and always will be only one true God.

There is no Saviour of the world except for this one true God.

Therefore, the Saviour of the world must be the one true God.

This leads to another question:

Is Jesus the Saviour of the world?

I do not think that anyone who has read the New Testament would dispute this.  The Bible refers to Jesus as the Saviour: "and of the Saviour of us, Christ Jesus" --Titus 2:13.

Therefore, since:

The one true God is the only Saviour of the world (Isaiah 43:10,11), and

Jesus is the Saviour of the world (Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1),

Jesus must therefore be the one true God. No contradiction.

To deny that Jesus is the one true God, one would either have to deny that Jesus is the Saviour, or say that God is lying to us in Isaiah 43:11.  Neither alternative fits with Scripture.

Does Titus 2:13 teach that Jesus is God our Saviour?

In Titus 2:13 it states the following:

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify to Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

It is clearly stated from the Holy Scriptures quoted here that it is Jesus who is our great God and Saviour. There is no contradiction.
so u are telling me that the old testament is not part of the Bible or what ... cos jesus him self said am a messanger of God ... u can see that there are many contradiction in the Bible ... cos Jesus can't deer himself by calling him self God... all dis u are quoting is the preaching of Paul a man who never saw Jesus christ.... I believe u know that cos u know the Bible very well... and the verses have proof to u are u still insinuating that jesus his God? still have a lot of prove from the Bible and the NOBLE QURAN also testify to it... thanks
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Ahmed445: 10:04am On Sep 14
OLAADEGBU:


Let me show you how the Word of God does not contradict itself taking Isaiah 43:10-11 that you brought up into consideration.

"You are My witnesses, says the LORD, and My servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He: before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after MeI, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no saviour," (Isaiah 43:10,11).

This is the question:

Is God the Saviour of the world?

If you study this verse I quoted above objectively, you will discover the following:
 
There always has been and always will be only one true God.

There is no Saviour of the world except for this one true God.

Therefore, the Saviour of the world must be the one true God.

This leads to another question:

Is Jesus the Saviour of the world?

I do not think that anyone who has read the New Testament would dispute this.  The Bible refers to Jesus as the Saviour: "and of the Saviour of us, Christ Jesus" --Titus 2:13.

Therefore, since:

The one true God is the only Saviour of the world (Isaiah 43:10,11), and

Jesus is the Saviour of the world (Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1),

Jesus must therefore be the one true God. No contradiction.

To deny that Jesus is the one true God, one would either have to deny that Jesus is the Saviour, or say that God is lying to us in Isaiah 43:11.  Neither alternative fits with Scripture.

Does Titus 2:13 teach that Jesus is God our Saviour?

In Titus 2:13 it states the following:

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify to Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

It is clearly stated from the Holy Scriptures quoted here that it is Jesus who is our great God and Saviour. There is no contradiction.
It is clearly stated from the Holy Scriptures quoted here that it is Jesus who is our great God and Saviour. There is no contradiction.[/quote]so u are telling me that the old testament is not part of the Bible or what ... cos jesus him self said am a messanger of God ... u can see that there are many contradiction in the Bible ... cos Jesus can't deer himself by calling him self God... all dis u are quoting is the preaching of Paul a man who never saw Jesus christ.... I believe u know that cos u know the Bible very well... and the verses have proof to u are u still insinuating that jesus his God? still have a lot of prove from the Bible and the NOBLE QURAN also testify to it... thanks
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by MightySparrow: 10:06am On Sep 14
This is a very serious question. However this is where the Christian faith really stands. This is also the triumph of believers and doom of unbeliers.

14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. 16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
Isaiah 8: 14 - 16

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
ICor 1: 22 -24
This is the reason why certain sect misinterprete some scriptures wrongly like Col. 1: 18; Rev 3: 14

And unto the angel of the church of the
Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; Rev 3: 14


This is also what is known as the mystery of Christ.2

That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; Cok .2:2

And

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph ,3: 4

What actually happened in garden of Eden is known only to God and Satan in detail. Man has not known it and may never know it. This calls for God becoming man

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. I To 3: 16.
It is actuality God reincarnation in Christ, leading a new race, regeneration, in man; while this race goes to an end. The other is being formed and Christ is the first to be born again, the first begotten of the dead or among many brethren.
There is no contradiction at all.
So many things to write about I could continue God willing.
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Ahmed445: 10:22am On Sep 14
Freetech:


It is like asking how is it possible for a man to be a father of his children and also a husband to his wife.

Read John1:1-14 and Prv8:22-36. He is the Word of God, by Him all things were created. vs 14 of Jhn reveal He was made flesh through virgin birth because the Word need to have blood to save mankind from their sin. Without shedding of blood no remission of sins. Heb9:22.Just as we cannot separate your word from your person though you may be in Nigeria and your word continue to operate in far away UK. In the same vein Jesus cannot be separated from God.
before we can start commenting on the this proposition of urs .... let consider that the bible contradict itself and if we have a verses contradicting one anoda den one must be right and anoda must be wrong or both are wrong... there are many firstborn in the bible... even before jesus was sent to deliver the his message...
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Ahmed445: 10:28am On Sep 14
OLAADEGBU:
The Firstborn Creator?

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made" (John 1:1–3).

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him" (Colossians 1:15–16).

"Yet I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, today I have begotten You" (Psalm 2:6, 7).

"For to which of the angels did He ever say: You are My Son, today I have begotten You? And again: I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son? But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: Let all the angels of God worship Him" (Hebrews 1:5, 6).

How could Jesus be the Creator (John 1:1–3) if He was the firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15)?

before we can start commenting on the this proposition of urs .... let consider that the bible contradict itself and if we have a verses contradicting one anoda den one must be right and anoda must be wrong or both are wrong... there are many firstborn in the bible... even before jesus was sent to deliver the his message...
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Ahmed445: 10:33am On Sep 14
jcross19:
In order to agree with all the terms in the bible we fall into the pit of confusion. Jesus said me and my father are one. John 1 vs 1 to 3 only indicate how in unity jesus is with God. Remember that jesus is our advocate to God then ask yourself can God be advocate to himself for us ? Does it make sense. John 6 vs 14 he said I am the way , the truth and life: no one come unto the FATHER except by ME now think there are persons in that sentence the father which is God and ME which is Jesus....
hello Mr jcross , like ur write up but if u see contradicting verses in the bible do u still believe in it... or is it still holy?
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Ahmed445: 11:07am On Sep 14
OLAADEGBU:


Let me show you how the Word of God does not contradict itself taking Isaiah 43:10-11 that you brought up into consideration.

"You are My witnesses, says the LORD, and My servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He: before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after MeI, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no saviour," (Isaiah 43:10,11).

This is the question:

Is God the Saviour of the world?

If you study this verse I quoted above objectively, you will discover the following:
 
There always has been and always will be only one true God.

There is no Saviour of the world except for this one true God.

Therefore, the Saviour of the world must be the one true God.

This leads to another question:

Is Jesus the Saviour of the world?

I do not think that anyone who has read the New Testament would dispute this.  The Bible refers to Jesus as the Saviour: "and of the Saviour of us, Christ Jesus" --Titus 2:13.

Therefore, since:

The one true God is the only Saviour of the world (Isaiah 43:10,11), and

Jesus is the Saviour of the world (Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1),

Jesus must therefore be the one true God. No contradiction.

To deny that Jesus is the one true God, one would either have to deny that Jesus is the Saviour, or say that God is lying to us in Isaiah 43:11.  Neither alternative fits with Scripture.

Does Titus 2:13 teach that Jesus is God our Saviour?

In Titus 2:13 it states the following:

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify to Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works."

It is clearly stated from the Holy Scriptures quoted here that it is Jesus who is our great God and Saviour. There is no contradiction.
from the passage above its stated that MY SERVANT... who is the servant JESUS... now u said it ur self and are u still insisting that he is God or son of God?
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:37pm On Sep 14
MightySparrow:


This is a very serious question. However this is where the Christian faith really stands. This is also the triumph of believers and doom of unbeliers.

14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. 16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
Isaiah 8: 14 - 16

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
ICor 1: 22 -24
This is the reason why certain sect misinterprete some scriptures wrongly like Col. 1: 18; Rev 3: 14

And unto the angel of the church of the
Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; Rev 3: 14


This is also what is known as the mystery of Christ.2

That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; Cok .2:2

And

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph ,3: 4

What actually happened in garden of Eden is known only to God and Satan in detail. Man has not known it and may never know it. This calls for God becoming man

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. I To 3: 16.
It is actuality God reincarnation in Christ, leading a new race, regeneration, in man; while this race goes to an end. The other is being formed and Christ is the first to be born again, the first begotten of the dead or among many brethren.
There is no contradiction at all.
So many things to write about I could continue God willing.

Way to go! cheesy

Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:42pm On Sep 14
Ahmed445:


from the passage above its stated that MY SERVANT... who is the servant JESUS... now u said it ur self and are u still insisting that he is God or son of God?

Jesus is the Servant King. Check it out here: ===> www.NeedGod.com


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBd3ThCResI
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by 9inches(m): 3:38pm On Sep 14
The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is not the Father; but the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God.

Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by BIBLESPEAKS(m): 8:02pm On Sep 14
The Truth About the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit





PEOPLE who believe the Trinity teaching say that God consists of three persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each of these three persons is said to be equal to the others, almighty, and without beginning. According to the Trinity doctrine, therefore, the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet there is only one God.
Many who believe the Trinity admit that they are not able to explain this teaching. Still, they may feel that it is taught in the Bible. It is worth noting that the word “Trinity” never occurs in the Bible. But is the idea of a Trinity found there? To answer this question, let us look at a scripture that supporters often cite to uphold the Trinity.

"THE WORD WAS GOD”
John 1:1 states: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” ( King James Version ) Later in the same chapter, the apostle John clearly shows that “the Word” is Jesus. ( John 1:14 ) Since the Word is called God, however, some conclude that the Son and the Father must be part of the same God.
Bear in mind that this part of the Bible was originally written in Greek. Later, translators rendered the Greek text into other languages. A number of Bible translators, though, did not use the phrase “the Word was God.” Why not? Based on their knowledge of Biblical Greek, those translators concluded that the phrase “the Word was God” should be translated differently. How? Here are a few examples: “The Logos [Word] was divine.” ( A New Translation of the Bible) “The Word was a god.” ( The New Testament in an Improved Version ) “The Word was with God and shared his nature.” ( The Translator’s New Testament ) According to these translations, the Word is not God himself. * Instead, because of his high position among God's creatures, the Word is referred to as “a god.” Here the term “god” means “mighty one.”

GET MORE FACTS
Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example: A schoolteacher explains a subject to his students. Afterward, the students differ on how to understand the explanation. How can the students resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better. Similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1 , you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus’ position. Learning additional facts on this subject will help you to draw the right conclusion.

For instance, consider what John further writes in chapter 1, verse 18 : “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” ( John 1:14 , KJ ) How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God? John also states that the Word was “with God.” But how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person? Moreover, as recorded at John 17:3 , Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.” ( John 20:31 ) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.

CONFIRM THE FACTS
Think again about the example of the schoolteacher and the students. Imagine that some still have doubts, even after listening to the teacher’s additional explanation. What could they do? They could turn to another teacher for further information on the same subject. If the second teacher confirms the explanation of the first one, the doubts of most students may be put to rest. Similarly, if you are not sure what the Bible writer John was really saying about the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God, you could turn to another Bible writer for further information. Consider what was written by Matthew, for example. Regarding the end of this system of things, he quotes Jesus as saying: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” ( Matthew 24:36 ) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?
Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?

As you continue your Bible studies, you will become familiar with many more Bible passages that have a bearing on this subject. They confirm the truth about the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit.— Psalm 90:2; Acts 7:55; Colossians 1:15

1 Like

Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Ahmed445: 10:53pm On Sep 14
OLAADEGBU:


Jesus is the Servant King. Check it out here: ===> www.NeedGod.com


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBd3ThCResI
No! Mr olaadegbu what is servant king again? but u said Jesus is the creator and he is God... and God cannot be a servant again .... u are mixing things up and I wish to learn and convince that Jesus is God or he is the creature of the earth... am still asking a question ... there are many contradicting verses in the Bible ... the two verses cannot be correct at the same time or shld we consder the two verses wrong and it won't be holy book again or what... I will be happy if u answer me with dis ... threre are still alot in the bible wish I will like to everyone on this group to know... until u answer my question ... is bible holy or a book of history... thanks
!
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Ahmed445: 10:57pm On Sep 14
9inches:
The Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is not the Father; but the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God.
how can son be father .... can ur son be u... and can god be born by human...
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Ahmed445: 11:00pm On Sep 14
BIBLESPEAKS:

The Truth About the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit





PEOPLE who believe the Trinity teaching say that God consists of three persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each of these three persons is said to be equal to the others, almighty, and without beginning. According to the Trinity doctrine, therefore, the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet there is only one God.
Many who believe the Trinity admit that they are not able to explain this teaching. Still, they may feel that it is taught in the Bible. It is worth noting that the word “Trinity” never occurs in the Bible. But is the idea of a Trinity found there? To answer this question, let us look at a scripture that supporters often cite to uphold the Trinity.

"THE WORD WAS GOD”
John 1:1 states: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” ( King James Version ) Later in the same chapter, the apostle John clearly shows that “the Word” is Jesus. ( John 1:14 ) Since the Word is called God, however, some conclude that the Son and the Father must be part of the same God.
Bear in mind that this part of the Bible was originally written in Greek. Later, translators rendered the Greek text into other languages. A number of Bible translators, though, did not use the phrase “the Word was God.” Why not? Based on their knowledge of Biblical Greek, those translators concluded that the phrase “the Word was God” should be translated differently. How? Here are a few examples: “The Logos [Word] was divine.” ( A New Translation of the Bible) “The Word was a god.” ( The New Testament in an Improved Version ) “The Word was with God and shared his nature.” ( The Translator’s New Testament ) According to these translations, the Word is not God himself. * Instead, because of his high position among God's creatures, the Word is referred to as “a god.” Here the term “god” means “mighty one.”

GET MORE FACTS
Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example: A schoolteacher explains a subject to his students. Afterward, the students differ on how to understand the explanation. How can the students resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better. Similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1 , you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus’ position. Learning additional facts on this subject will help you to draw the right conclusion.

For instance, consider what John further writes in chapter 1, verse 18 : “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” ( John 1:14 , KJ ) How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God? John also states that the Word was “with God.” But how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person? Moreover, as recorded at John 17:3 , Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.” ( John 20:31 ) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.

CONFIRM THE FACTS
Think again about the example of the schoolteacher and the students. Imagine that some still have doubts, even after listening to the teacher’s additional explanation. What could they do? They could turn to another teacher for further information on the same subject. If the second teacher confirms the explanation of the first one, the doubts of most students may be put to rest. Similarly, if you are not sure what the Bible writer John was really saying about the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God, you could turn to another Bible writer for further information. Consider what was written by Matthew, for example. Regarding the end of this system of things, he quotes Jesus as saying: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” ( Matthew 24:36 ) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?
Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?

As you continue your Bible studies, you will become familiar with many more Bible passages that have a bearing on this subject. They confirm the truth about the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit.— Psalm 90:2; Acts 7:55; Colossians 1:15
I love quoting the bible just that there a lot of contradicting verses in the bible and am confused...
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Ahmed445: 11:06pm On Sep 14
jossypet:
He was the first to be born-again.
thanks jossypet it means that Jesus was born again abi? in the bible if I show u someone that no father, no mother , no uncles, aunt, or linage as no beginning nor end in the bible. will u still consider Jesus a first born or last born or born again?... thanks
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by 9inches(m): 8:05am On Sep 15
Ahmed445:
@9inches really like ur post and write up ... we gum together like chewing gum

Praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Ahmed445: 8:21am On Sep 15
OLAADEGBU:


Jesus is the Servant King. Check it out here: ===> www.NeedGod.com


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBd3ThCResI
Mr olaadegbu all you doing is sending link and is not genuine enough... all what am asking, u couldn't answer... and I believe u brought up the topic base on what u know and understand...
firstly, is bible holy or not and show me the verses in bible where jesus said I am a Christian.
secondly, who is Jesus? messenger, god, or what?. will be glad if u can give me a nice response from the bible that doesn't contradict any verses... thanks
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by 0temAtum: 8:35am On Sep 15
Yeshua was the first born of Mother Earthus. See the Doctufos passage here:
Doctufos: Adspiramen 7:11-21
11. Murmoh wept and trembled as he entered in with Mother Earthus and slept with her, thereby taking away her long-kept virginity.

12. Murmoh was cold after doing it and he wept as he felt great power had gone out of him. He told it to us and we all laughed.

13. How was the taste of it? Yahweh asked playfully.

14. I felt I have lost some of my powers, Murmoh complained.

15. What use is power to you, O Murmoh? Yahweh raised up his voice. You only store power without using them.

16. Murmoh kept silent for a week in sorrow for he felt guilty doing it with Earthus.

17. Earthus soon began to have her womb rise up and we feared that the liquid released into her body by Murmoh was only a poison to her soul.

18. We were all amazed when a giant homo with furs arose. Earthus had given birth.

19. The furs were dark like scarlet and the creature seemed too ugly for our liking. He had some resemblance to Murmoh who was black in complexion too(the only one among us who was having a dark complexion).

20. Thus we had the first homo to be born by flesh and not by the impact of the bang. He is called Faulkin(Yeshua), the firstborn of all creatures.

21. Faulkin(Yeshua) was of great stature as he grew. Soon we began to see Mother Earthus' womb rise again after a while.


This is very vivid, makes me wonder why people would ever think of Faulkin as God Almighty even when Murmoh his father and Yahweh his adopted father are only qualified to be called the gods and not GOD ALMIGHTY in its entirety. The world has been deceived. Hmmm.
Re: How Could Jesus Be The Creator If He Was The Firstborn Of All Creation? by Ahmed445: 10:46am On Sep 15
0temAtum:
Yeshua was the first born of Mother Earthus. See the Doctufos passage here:


This is very vivid, makes me wonder why people would ever think of Faulkin as God Almighty even when Murmoh his father and Yahweh his adopted father are only qualified to be called the gods and not GOD ALMIGHTY in its entirety. The world has been deceived. Hmmm.
who is mother Earthus... and tell me why Jesus was not call yeshua in the Bible?

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