TRYGO:


CASE STUDY

Ford Explorer 2004
8Cylinder inline engine
Automatic transmission
Car located at Ogbaku, in Imo state, Nigeria

CUSTOMER'S COMPLAINT

*car does not ascend hills,
*fuel pump replaced by a mechanic without any improvement
*some noises coming from the engine
*car is at Ogbaku, in Imo state.
*wants the vehicle fixed and driven back to Lagos

THE FIX. WHAT WE DID

*traveled to the East to asses the c the car, and further confirm what the customer's complaints were.
*troubleshooting of the car was done by physical checks of the various exhaust related components, and a test drive carried out.
Discovered the car can't ascend a hill; low exhaust back pressure; and rattling noises from underneath the engine/exhaust area.
*drove car to a workshop, and requested the panel beater to remove the exhaust system in segments so we could identify the suspect component.
Exhaust tailpipe and mufflers were removed, and inspected for blockages. They were all through.
*asked the panel beater to rip through the catalytic converters with his oxyacetylene flame, in order to see the state if the catalysts.
To our surprise, only one of the catalytic converters was clogged, and the other catalytic converter has got no catalyst even in it.
*removed all the disintegrated catalysts, [color=#006600]and stacked mesh wires in its place.[color] This was done temporarily to reduce the "buuuuuuu" noise, and to enable us drive the car to Lagos.
Drove the car to Lagos; handed it over to the owner, and engine got knocked some weeks after.
*plans are on the way to replace the engine, as at the time this article was being conceived.

A stitch in time saves 10(my own saying please).



Regards,
Joseph
oigonojoseph@yahoo.com
08066643532

Readonee35L:
My Trygo
I think you're the one who Knocked that Cars engine and you should be arrested .
You're no different than the other kazzemms on the street. Putting heater net like they call it in the engine.
Most of does things you put was sucked in the engine and it went kaboom and knocked .
Its all your fault .
An engine will never knock because of absence of catalyst. You should have left it empty after removing the broken catalyst particles in it , till the owner has money to buy a new catalytic converter .
Cc Gazzuzz diportivo kingreign e.t.c
If I'm wrong abeg correct me

TRYGO:


THE FIX. WHAT WE DID

*traveled to the East to asses the c the car, and further confirm what the customer's complaints were.
*troubleshooting of the car was done by physical checks of the various exhaust related components, and a test drive carried out.
Discovered the car can't ascend a hill; low exhaust back pressure; and rattling noises from underneath the engine/exhaust area.
*drove car to a workshop, and requested the panel beater to remove the exhaust system in segments so we could identify the suspect component.
Exhaust tailpipe and mufflers were removed, and inspected for blockages. They were all through.
*asked the panel beater to rip through the catalytic converters with his oxyacetylene flame, in order to see the state if the catalysts.
To our surprise, only one of the catalytic converters was clogged, and the other catalytic converter has got no catalyst even in it.
*removed all the disintegrated catalysts, and stacked mesh wires in its place. This was done temporarily to reduce the "buuuuuuu" noise, and to enable us drive the car to Lagos.
Drove the car to Lagos; handed it over to the owner, and engine got knocked some weeks after.
*plans are on the way to replace the engine, as at the time this article was being conceived.

A stitch in time saves 10(my own saying please).



Regards,
Joseph
oigonojoseph@yahoo.com
08066643532

TRYGO:
@gazzuzz. You de funny o! Could you explain why I shouldn't drive such cars, or even fix them?
Maybe because you thought the mesh wires for a temporal fix to the noise suppression was a permanent solution?

TRYGO:
@gazzuzz. No sir. Didn't kill that engine.

Probably your conclusions based on the point I raised about engine damage, I think. Well, brother, that's your own point of view.

TRYGO:
Emmmm, if you're I'm the support that I was responsible for that car's engine failure, say Yeah. If you're not in support, say Nay. Mind you, na me be the speaker here. I can overrule all your decisions. Problem is, you can't impeach me. I refuse to accept responsibility for it sirs. Set a technical inquiry, would attend.
I meant to say a straight engine. Shikenan. Wasalam.

TRYGO:
@erico. I think I like your style of response here.
I know catalysts are not repaired. You have to replace them with a new or used one.
What you referred to as stacking it, was not a permanent fix to that stuff.
We did that to:

*reduce the loud noise you hear when a catalyst is removed. I guess you know that sound is.

*to by all means bring the car down to Lagos and get all the necessary parts required for the fix.

If you had peradventure read through all the article, I started in it that the scope of the job was to rescue the car, and do the fix in Lagos (that's the car owners TOR to us). He wanted parts bought only in Lagos. Option of way billing whatever part required was presented.

TO YOUR CONCLUSIONS THAT THE WIRE MESH MIGHT HAVE CHOKED THE ENGINE, let's do it this way. Let me so my best to explain technically what I think happened.

*There is no way the mesh wires could block or choke the engine.
If those mesh wires stayed for long, and got rusted in that system, I may perhaps somewhat agree with you, but not totally.

* if you look at the mesh size of that wire, it is of more diameter than even a normal catalyst.
Take a look at the pictures of the catalyst and the mesh wires I posted in the article. You'll notice that the catalyst pores are little bit very tiny, while that of the mesh wires are extremely large.
So, now. If car makers use materials of such tiny diameter, to try to achieve emissions control, and noise suppression on exhaust systems, and such cars work perfectly, except of course the catalyst material (made up of platinum or palladium) gets degraded, it would choke(clog) the free exit of emissions from the combustion chamber. Have you ever wondered, Erico!, why is it that when you try to start your car to no avail, and probably your mechanic comes around, and discover that the catalytic converters were the culprit, has it ever occurred to you to like figure out what the "heavens" could have caused that clogging? Catalyst degrade with time, and usage. The transition metals used as catalytic converters are substrates and when they degrade, and like powdery stuff.
Catalytic converters don't react with corrosion causing agents, and that's why they're used.

*Let me say mesh wires are not transition metals, and can never be used as a substitute for a catalyst. And if in your view, and that of others in this platform, I inserted those in the catcon, as a permanent solution, don't you think my engineering certificate should be withdrawn from me, and maybe, as someone on this platform said that, "hey, Joseph. You should be arrested and put in prison"?
I do understand the dynamics of these things. I don't just work on cars, just to get the bucks.

*Let's even reason this way, Erico. If this was a permanent fix, I don't think I would come on this platform and spew out maybe what I think would impugn on my reputation na. Engine got knocked not on the basis of mesh wires inserted in the catalyst. If that's your reasoning, it is wrong. Putting mesh wires wasn't as inserting it to CHOKE the engine, in such a way to prevent back pressures. Take a look at the mesh wires on the ground at the panel beaters workshop. Those stuffs can't clog the two catalytic converters converters. Except maybe we insert say, a lorry load of those stuffs in it.

*ANOTHER VERY IMPORTANT POINT IS that the during combustion process in any internal combustion engine applications, all end products of the combustion EXITS the exhaust system, and NOT returning back in to the engine.

*I have drawn out a sketch, to support what I mean in the above point.

I do appreciate your positive criticism here.
But I would want you to present to me in tour next response, a counter engineering reason(s) why you think the MESH WIRES caused the problem.


Good morning


Regards,
Joseph

PS: I know the CATCON is an expensive part, which had degraded and caused the problem to the vehicle while it was at the East.
PLEASE GET ME WELL. THE SCOPE IF THE JOB IS "DON'T FIX THAT CAR IN THE EAST. DO WHAT YOU CAN TO DRIVE THE CAR BACK TO LAGOS". SO, are you and others saying with the catalyst bad already, I should drive the car back to Lagos with the attendant noise from the exhaust system? Sorry, if that's what you meant, I can't.

I WOULD RATHER PREFER PEOPLE PRESENT TECHNICAL BACKINGS OR REASONS WHY THAT MESH WIRES WAS RESPONSIBLE.
IN OUR RESPONSES TO THIS ?s, let's all understand what CATALYSTS do in the first place, their CHEMICAL COMPOSITION, and which DIRECTION EXIT GASES FROM COMBUSTION leaves the combustion chamber. IS IT BACKWARDS RETURNING TO THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER, OR OUTWARDS AWAY FROM THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER, and then COMPARE IT WITH THE MESH WIRES.
If we can get all these facts ready, I think our for/again the circumstances of the engine problem would be more productive.

*****Sorry, if the sketch is blurred.
Legends:
dotted arrows rep direction of " inlet" gas stream
plain arrows rep direction of exit gases from combustion chamber

I just want to make it really more explicit.

Its better for me to drive a car stashed with mesh wires, than to drive it with a degraded catalyst in it.******

erico2k2:

Just to point out some mistake you are making
1.the cat converter has nothing what so ever to do with the sound of your car thats the JOB of the Back BOX (Re-sounder)
2 your best bet was to remove the cat converter totally from the exhaust system until you can get a new replacement.
3 The only physical effect you will get by removing the content of you cat converter would be increased fuel consumption and failure in emission responsibilities
Let us get back to basics
I don't know how far back your Education goes but the concept of OXIDATION REDUCTION is what this is all about .
Main function of the cat converter in chemistry language
this is for the 2 way converter

oxidation of carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide 2CO + O2 → 2CO2
Oxidation of Hydrocarbon this is the fuel not burnt or partially burt to carbon dioxide and water you see out of your tail pipe.
THIS IS THE CHEMICAL EQUATION FOR COMBUSTION : CxH2x+2 + [(3x+1)/2] O2 → xCO2 + (x+1) H2O

[b][/b]However the three way type adds a third reaction which is Reduction of nitrogen oxides to nitrogen and oxygen: 2NOx → xO2 + N2
On a final note the cat converters where put in cars due to Emission regulation of teh state as a compulsory component rather than and improvement to the car as a whole.

nurey:


see chemical equation and reaction, plus confirm balancing, but you didnt show us enthalphy and entrophy. come join am with confirm ogbonge Redox reaction. where were thou, when i was a back bencher in school. better late than never, how do i enroll as your second apprentice after trygo?

2H2O + 4CO2 + HEAT - 638hp + Energy

TRYGO:
@erico. You're taking me back to my chemistry lessons now o! Mainly organic chemistry.
Now you're delving into theoretical stuff. Like those backgrounds you've got. That's cool brother!

But it seems you've not really answered my concern.
CAN YOU USE THOSE REDOX REACTIONS TO PROVE HOW WOULD MESH WIRES STALKED IN A CATCON, CAUSE "ENGINE DAMAGE".

I really need technical answers to this.
For the noise levels, have you ever tried this experiment. Remove the catalyst and close back the catcon, and check the noise levels. Would you hear the same kind of of noise? It still depends on the kind of noise you're taking about. Are you saying there won't be any noise or it would still be the same? Or, are you saying if for instance you've got any part of your car's exhaust system that's RUPTURED, are you still saying there won't be any noise, or the noise you'll be hearing would only come from the tailpipe?

I do understand those REDOX and COMBUSTION reactions you're talking about na. I don't think I need to put those reactions in there.
If you read through that article, you'll know that I had emphasised that you'll get poor gas mileage, without a catalyst. So, you saying there won't be noise highs, isn't OK. Just try it out and see.

I would suggest Erico, why not present me with technical proves of all these na.
I must admit there must have being mistakes in some if the use of maybe technical jargons in my write-ups, well, not to worry, would accept your corrections though.

WHAT I IS STILL NEED IS DO A COMPARATIVE CHEMICAL AND PHYSICAL ANALYSIS OF A CATALYST SUBSTRATE (vis-à-vis the transition metals) AND THE MESH WIRE. You would find out that mesh wires can't be a permanent fix.
You may want to refer to "Kazeem", now. Ask the Kazeemites about what mesh wires do in catcons, and perhaps they'll be glad to tell you.
Let's not underrate KAZEEM people too o! They know what they're doing sometimes; its just some of them lack basic understanding of the dynamics of operations of some of those stuffs.

I think this discussion is opening us all to new horizons. Don't you think so, Erico?
Let our responses be cordial without insults. How about that? This platform is a " democratic" one. You choose what you want read, hear, and see. But you've got no control over what other peoples responses should be.

TRYGO:
@erico. You're taking me back to my chemistry lessons now o! Mainly organic chemistry.
Now you're delving into theoretical stuff. Like those backgrounds you've got. That's cool brother!

But it seems you've not really answered my concern.
CAN YOU USE THOSE REDOX REACTIONS TO PROVE HOW WOULD MESH WIRES STALKED IN A CATCON, CAUSE "ENGINE DAMAGE".

I really need technical answers to this.
For the noise levels, have you ever tried this experiment. Remove the catalyst and close back the catcon, and check the noise levels. Would you hear the same kind of of noise? It still depends on the kind of noise you're taking about. Are you saying there won't be any noise or it would still be the same? Or, are you saying if for instance you've got any part of your car's exhaust system that's RUPTURED, are you still saying there won't be any noise, or the noise you'll be hearing would only come from the tailpipe?

I do understand those REDOX and COMBUSTION reactions you're talking about na. I don't think I need to put those reactions in there.
If you read through that article, you'll know that I had emphasised that you'll get poor gas mileage, without a catalyst. So, you saying there won't be noise highs, isn't OK. Just try it out and see.

I would suggest Erico, why not present me with technical proves of all these na.
I must admit there must have being mistakes in some if the use of maybe technical jargons in my write-ups, well, not to worry, would accept your corrections though.

WHAT I IS STILL NEED IS DO A COMPARATIVE CHEMICAL AND PHYSICAL ANALYSIS OF A CATALYST SUBSTRATE (vis-à-vis the transition metals) AND THE MESH WIRE. You would find out that mesh wires can't be a permanent fix.
You may want to refer to "Kazeem", now. Ask the Kazeemites about what mesh wires do in catcons, and perhaps they'll be glad to tell you.
Let's not underrate KAZEEM people too o! They know what they're doing sometimes; its just some of them lack basic understanding of the dynamics of operations of some of those stuffs.

I think this discussion is opening us all to new horizons. Don't you think so, Erico?
Let our responses be cordial without insults. How about that? This platform is a " democratic" one. You choose what you want read, hear, and see. But you've got no control over what other peoples responses should be.

erico2k2:

you already answered teh question above,why did you replace the materials inside teh catcon with mesh in the first place?
Answer Sluggishness right? blockade right?
Now same thing will happen when you fit in mesh and it will suffocate the engine, just imagine you are on a thread mill and someone close one of your nose

RIP engine

TRYGO:
@gazzuzz! I'm just tied of this pendulum comments.
OK. Burial would be in heaven.
Well, still your opinion.
Closing one nostrils? That analogy doesn't hold "ruwa". If you close a nose with a material with a diameter of say, 100mm, and a diameter of 30mm, which do you think would choke the person, and even result to death? Choking, in my view, should depend on the texture and structure of that material. Don't you think so? So, if your response is in the positive, compare that to a mesh wire, and a catalyst. Do their diameters measure up?

TRYGO:
Gazzuzz. We have not buried the engine. We would resurrect it. Burying that engine, as you suggest depicts we've given up on it. We don't just give up on stuffs like that.

Can you just give technical backings to your justification that the mesh wires was intended to choke the engine in your words, and leading to its eventual failure? Its that simple. Layman's analogies isn't helping here.

OK. To the main issue now. The "nose" choking analogy won't work.
This is why. You'll have to know the diameter of the material you're using to Chike that nose you talked about; understand if there's a motive for that nose to be choked; determine the diameters of the material used for choking that nose. What's the texture, and structural makeup of the materials to meet up with your objectives of "choking" example you gave. If your answers are OK, then try to apply the points above to the mesh wire and catalyst substrate analogy. I just hope we come to a consensus somehow on this.