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Hell Exists Because God Loves You - Religion (3) - Nairaland

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Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by DoctorAlien(m): 5:28pm On Dec 31, 2016
PastorAIO:
Nothing you have said contradicts my point that Ideas evolved in christianity.

Jesus is called the Son of GOD in Mark 5:7, Luke 8:28 and Matt. 8:29.

Jesus forgave sins in Matt. 9:5 and Luke 7:48. Forgiving sin is a prerogative of GOD.
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by DoctorAlien(m): 5:29pm On Dec 31, 2016
PastorAIO:

No they are not.
You can believe whatever you want.
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by PastorAIO: 5:32pm On Dec 31, 2016
DoctorAlien:


Scroll down to the part of the page that says "Early Writings".

I've done so. Still nothing to support your claim that Christianity haven't evolved it's ideas. If you can find an early manuscript stating that Jesus was God that was written by the earliest christians then you'll have a case.

Until then, please don't make me read entire webpages looking for a nonexistent needle in a haystack. Thanks in advance.

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Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by DoctorAlien(m): 5:33pm On Dec 31, 2016
On Peter's trance:

As a Jewish convert, Peter held the opinion that all Gentiles were unclean, and therefore unworthy of salvation. He would not preach to them or have any type of social interaction with them.

Peter received the vision just before messengers arrived at his Joppa home from Cornelius, a Gentile centurion. God had instructed Cornelius to send for Peter, and his servants were practically at Peter's door when the faithful apostle fell into a trance on the rooftop.

In that vision, Peter saw a great sheet descending from heaven, filled to overflowing with all kinds of beasts, birds, and creepy-crawly animals. Three times Peter was invited to eat the disgusting collection of creatures, and three times he refused. Each time a voice declared, "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." Acts 10:15. Finally, the sheet was lifted back into heaven with its cargo of wriggling varmints.

Cc: PastorAIO

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Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by PastorAIO: 5:36pm On Dec 31, 2016
DoctorAlien:


You can believe whatever you want.

It's not a matter of just belief. Paul is talking about animals sacrificed to idols in one letter and then about animals deems unclean by mosaic law in the other.

The same issue is treated in Acts. I see that you've chosen to duck from addressing the passage.

I'll give you another chance (cos I'm such a nice guy):

14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” 15 And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.”


There is no sacrifice involved here.
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by DoctorAlien(m): 5:37pm On Dec 31, 2016
At this point, we should make some crucial observations. Peter's response to the invitation to eat establishes a very important point. He said, "Not so, Lord, for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean." Acts 10:14. This proves that during his entire three and one-half years with Jesus, Peter had never seen or heard anything that made him accepting of unclean meats. In other words, Jesus had not changed the prohibition against eating the forbidden animals, because if He had, Peter would have known about it and would not have responded as
he did.


In fact, the context of Acts chapter 10 reveals that Peter at first did not understand the meaning of the perplexing vision. Verse 17 says that "Peter doubted in himself" what it meant. And again, verse 19 says that "Peter thought on the vision."

Cc: PastorAIO

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Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by DoctorAlien(m): 5:40pm On Dec 31, 2016
While he was trying to figure it out, the three servants sent by Cornelius knocked on Peter's door. He listened to their account of Cornelius' vision, then lodged the men. The next day Peter returned with them to Caesarea, where Cornelius had his family and friends gathered to welcome the apostle.

The crux of the entire narrative is found in verse 28, where the previously blinded fisherman-disciple tells how the vision had been explained to him. He addressed the Gentile assembly with these words: "Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean." Acts 10:28, emphasis added.

Cc: PastorAIO

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Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by DoctorAlien(m): 5:43pm On Dec 31, 2016
Here we plainly see that God had used the vision of the sheet to teach the prejudiced Peter that he should no longer shun the Gentiles. The vision had nothing to do with eating and drinking. It was addressing Peter's attitude toward people, not toward food.

What a dramatic lesson for that early church! And it's a lesson that all of us should learn, also. Let those be corrected who try to apply this vision to any cleansing of unclean animals. It actually proves the opposite, and then presses home one of the greatest lessons for Christians everywhere–count every individual of equal worth before God, and make every effort to win that one to Christ.

Cc: PastorAIO

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Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by Deicide: 5:43pm On Dec 31, 2016
Doctoralien why don't you Quote the Verse out instead of citing them out?
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by DoctorAlien(m): 5:45pm On Dec 31, 2016
You can find out more about the foods GOD wants us to eat here.
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by 4kings: 5:46pm On Dec 31, 2016
Wow, I've learnt something today.
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by DoctorAlien(m): 5:49pm On Dec 31, 2016
Deicide:
Doctoralien why don't you Quote the Verse out instead of citing them out?

So that you can read it for yourself. You can access parallel verses of the Bible online on Biblehub.com or Biblegateway.com.
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by Deicide: 5:52pm On Dec 31, 2016
DoctorAlien:


So that you can read it for yourself. You can access parallel verses of the Bible online on Biblehub.com or Biblegateway.com.
This is an open forum that's why I asked no one has the time to be going to their bible app and what not and also it would look as if you are hiding something and it also makes ur explanation "Not Clear"

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Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by DoctorAlien(m): 5:53pm On Dec 31, 2016
Deicide:

This is an open forum that's why I asked no one has the time to be going to their bible app and what not and also it would look as if you are hiding something and it also makes ur explanation "Not Clear"

I understand what you're trying to say. I'll try as much as possible to type out the Bible verses I cite from now on.
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by Deicide: 5:56pm On Dec 31, 2016
DoctorAlien:


I understand what you're trying to say. I'll try as much as possible to type out the Bible verses I cite from now on.
Thank ya..
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by PastorAIO: 6:07pm On Dec 31, 2016
DoctorAlien:


Jesus is called the Son of GOD in Mark 5:7, Luke 8:28 and Matt. 8:29.

Jesus forgave sins in Matt. 9:5 and Luke 7:48. Forgiving sin is a prerogative of GOD.

Son of God was a common enough term in Judaism that has been used for various characters. especially Kings.

Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn

When Jesus admits to being the son of God how did the Jewish leaders interprete it? :


"Then they all said, "Are you then the Son of God?" And he said to them, 'You rightly say that I am.' And they said, 'What further testimony do we need? For we have heard it ourselves from his own mouth.' Then the whole multitude of them arose and led him to Pilate. And they began to accuse him, saying, 'We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to pay taxes to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ, a King.' So Pilate asked him, saying, 'Are you the king of the Jews?' And he answered him and said, 'It is as you say.'" (Luke 22:70 -23:3)


Did the Sanhedrin say: This is blasphemy and religious perversion that Jesus called himself Son of God. ?

Or did they see it as a political problem instead: He is refusing to pay taxes and calling himself a King. ?

You see, in judaism, calling yourself the Son of God is a claim to be the Messiah which is a political position. The Kings are Messiahs from Saul down to the last one.

Not only God can forgive sins.

Forgive us our Sins as we forgive those that sin against us. Jesus fully expects that humans are capable of forgiving sins.

14For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, 15but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


The notion that only God can forgive sins was considered a fallacy that Jesus corrected when the leaders accused him of blasphemy. In that very Matt 9 passage that you are quoting Jesus later says:

6But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...”

Note that he upholds the distinction between God and Man and asserts that the Son of Man too, as well as god, has the authority to forgive sins.

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Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by PastorAIO: 6:11pm On Dec 31, 2016
Sir, I know the passage. Afterall I'm the one that quoted it. All you've done is narrate what is in the passage to me. My point still stands. There are things that were considered unclean that subsequently were no longer to be considered unclean. This includes Other humans (gentiles) but also foodstuffs.




DoctorAlien:
On Peter's trance:

As a Jewish convert, Peter held the opinion that all Gentiles were unclean, and therefore unworthy of salvation. He would not preach to them or have any type of social interaction with them.

Peter received the vision just before messengers arrived at his Joppa home from Cornelius, a Gentile centurion. God had instructed Cornelius to send for Peter, and his servants were practically at Peter's door when the faithful apostle fell into a trance on the rooftop.

In that vision, Peter saw a great sheet descending from heaven, filled to overflowing with all kinds of beasts, birds, and creepy-crawly animals. Three times Peter was invited to eat the disgusting collection of creatures, and three times he refused. Each time a voice declared, "What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." Acts 10:15. Finally, the sheet was lifted back into heaven with its cargo of wriggling varmints.

Cc: PastorAIO
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by PastorAIO: 6:18pm On Dec 31, 2016
DoctorAlien:
Here we plainly see that God had used the vision of the sheet to teach the prejudiced Peter that he should no longer shun the Gentiles. The vision had nothing to do with eating and drinking. It was addressing Peter's attitude toward people, not toward food.

What a dramatic lesson for that early church! And it's a lesson that all of us should learn, also. Let those be corrected who try to apply this vision to any cleansing of unclean animals. It actually proves the opposite, and then presses home one of the greatest lessons for Christians everywhere–count every individual of equal worth before God, and make every effort to win that one to Christ.

Cc: PastorAIO

I see that it would suit you to limit that vision to refer only to cornelius and gentiles and not other unclean things.

However it doesn't change my argument. The fact still remains that Ideas evolved in Christianity. First you couldn't fraternise with unclean Gentiles, and then things changed and you could. Christianity evolves it's ideology.
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by Deicide: 6:21pm On Dec 31, 2016
PastorAIO there was a Time Jesus called himself God in the Gospel of John... And I don't mean "God" as in a Title I mean he referred to himself as "Yahweh" and you know the Jews don't play with their God so they took stone and threw it at Him,But Jesus ran for his life o if not they would have killed him like they did Stefan in the bible

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Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by PastorAIO: 6:25pm On Dec 31, 2016
Deicide:
PastorAIO there was a Time Jesus called himself God in the Gospel of John... And I don't mean "God" as in a Title I mean he referred to himself as "Yahweh" and you know the Jews don't play with their God so they took stone and threw it at Him,But Jesus ran for his life o if not they would have killed him like they did Stefan in the bible

Yes, the Gospel of john was written about 100AD, 30 years after hte other gospels. That's my point. It shows a more evolved theology.

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Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by Deicide: 6:26pm On Dec 31, 2016
Paul also talked about sacrificial foods and he said eating it is not a sin Jesus also talked about this somewhere in the bible...
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by Deicide: 6:29pm On Dec 31, 2016
PastorAIO:


Yes, the Gospel of john was written about 100AD, 30 years after hte other gospels. That's my point. It shows a more evolved theology.
I know this and it was because the Christian believes was evolving and there was a debate about if Jesus was God or not this was because there were so many scriptures and so many christian groups with different believes.
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by DoctorAlien(m): 6:29pm On Dec 31, 2016
PastorAIO,

"I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins." Isa. 43:25

While we can forgive sins committed against us, only GOD can forgive sins generally. If I wrong someone, I apologise to the person and to GOD for offending my fellow man. So sins are ultimately committed against GOD. Jesus forgave the paralytic all his sins. The Jews knew that only GOD could forgive sins and so they persecuted Jesus in Mark 2:7.

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Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by PastorAIO: 6:31pm On Dec 31, 2016
Deicide:
Paul also talked about sacrificial foods and he said eating it is not a sin Jesus also talked about this somewhere in the bible...

I agree that Paul did. Jesus though, never said it's okay to eat food sacrificed to idols.
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by DoctorAlien(m): 6:31pm On Dec 31, 2016
PastorAIO:


I see that it would suit you to limit that vision to refer only to cornelius and gentiles and not other unclean things.

However it doesn't change my argument. The fact still remains that Ideas evolved in Christianity. First you couldn't fraternise with unclean Gentiles, and then things changed and you could. Christianity evolves it's ideology.


You can believe whatever you want, okay?

GOD is not bigoted: He is the GOD of mankind, and not the GOD of the Jews alone. Everybody is entitled to salvation, if they will.

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Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by Deicide: 6:34pm On Dec 31, 2016
PastorAIO:


I agree that Paul did. Jesus though, never said it's okay to eat food sacrificed to idols.
No he didn't there was a time Jesus was eating and drinking in a bar with sinners...I still can't remember the way he put those words when he tried to explain himself
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by PastorAIO: 6:35pm On Dec 31, 2016
DoctorAlien:
PastorAIO,

"I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins." Isa. 43:25

While we can forgive sins committed against us, only GOD can forgive sins generally. If I wrong someone, I apologise to the person and to wrong for offending my fellow man. So sins are ultimately committed against GOD. Jesus forgave the paralytic all his sins. The Jews knew that only GOD could forgive sins and so they persecuted Jesus in Mark 2:7.

So Jesus must have misunderstood the Jewish leaders when he went on to show them that the Son of Man had power to forgive sins, and even went further to give his disciples the power to bind and unbind on earth and in heaven.

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Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by PastorAIO: 6:36pm On Dec 31, 2016
Deicide:

No he didn't there was a time Jesus was eating and drinking in a bar with sinners...I still can't remember the way he put those words when he tried to explain himself
It wasn't food sacrificed to idols though.
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by Deicide: 6:37pm On Dec 31, 2016
DoctorAlien:


You can believe whatever you want, okay?

GOD is not bigoted: He is the GOD of mankind, and not the GOD of the Jews alone. Everybody is entitled to salvation, if they will.

1 Like

Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by PastorAIO: 6:37pm On Dec 31, 2016
DoctorAlien:


You can believe whatever you want, okay?

GOD is not bigoted: He is the GOD of mankind, and not the GOD of the Jews alone. Everybody is entitled to salvation, if they will.

No, he probably isn't. But Humans sure are. And Humans wrote the bible.

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Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by Deicide: 6:38pm On Dec 31, 2016
PastorAIO:

It wasn't food sacrificed to idols though.
Yeah I know that my first statement was separate
Re: Hell Exists Because God Loves You by DoctorAlien(m): 6:40pm On Dec 31, 2016
PastorAIO:
So Jesus must have misunderstood the Jewish leaders when he went on to show them that the Son of Man had power to forgive sins, and even went further to give his disciples the power to bind and unbind on earth and in heaven.

I don't know what you're driving at but Matthew and Mark reported that Jesus stated unambiguously that He has power to forgive sin on earth, something only GOD can do.

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