Jibril659:
okay whatever

You had better repented before it is too late. Jesus loves you.

truthmans2012:


You had better repented before it is too late. Jesus loves you.

Dude couldn't even save himself

Jibril659:
Dude couldn't even save himself

It is clear from the foregoing that you have no idea on God's plan of salvation, just like the princes of this world. For had they known that in Christ's death was the fulfilment of God's purpose, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. Face the OP's question, though it is clear you have no answer.

plappville:

Perform the pilgrimage and the pious visit forAllah. If you are forcibly prevented, make whatever sacrifice is feasible. But do not shave your heads until the sacrificial animal has reached the place of sacrifice. If any of you are ill or have ahead injury, the expiation is fasting or charity or sacrifice when you are safe and well again. And if you are secure, then he who takes advantage of a pious visit before the pilgrimage should make whatever sacrifice is feasible. For any one who cannot, there is three days’ fast on pilgrimage and seven on your return that is ten in all. That is for anyone whose family does not live near the Sacred Mosque (Masjid al-Haram). Have fear of Allah and know that Allah is fierce in retribution.(2:196)



Looking at this quranic verse, you will understand that Allah guaranteed Muslims safe retun home after pilgrimage in Mecca.

Ordinarily, I would ignore this, but for the sake of those who seek truth, I'll answer you.
First, I want to ask you, "do you know what a promise is?" maybe not, because from what you quoted, I don't see any promise of anything.

Why then history shows that many Muslims do not return home after pilgrimage as they die of stampede? Isn't the Stamped contradictory to Allah's promised for Muslims pilgrims who went for hajj and die there? Can someone help a sister to explain this please. Thank you in advance.

Let's assume you are right. So, let's apply your method of reasoning.
Jesus (peace be upon him) prayed to be saved from crucifixion.
Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. (John 26: 36)
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me. (John 26: 39)
…. He went away again, and prayed the second time and prayed, saying ……and prayed the third time, saying the same words. (John 26:42-44)

God answered his prayers
And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I think thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always. (John 11:41-42)

God even sent an Angel to strengthen him
And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. (Luke 22: 43-44)

But after all these, what was the result? According to you, he died a shameful death, he died a cursed man.
Here goes; Isn't the death of Jesus (peace be upon him) contradictory to Yahweh's promise to Jesus (peace be upon him) who prayed fervently to be saved from crucifixion, yet, died of crucifixion??Can someone help a brother to explain this please. Thank you in advance.

Wow! Your method of reasoning is really astonishing!

Salaam.

Haroun13:

Ordinarily, I would ignore this, but for the sake of those who seek truth, I'll answer you.
First, I want to ask you, "do you know what a promise is?" maybe not, because from what you quoted, I don't see any promise of anything.



Let's assume you are right. So, let's apply your method of reasoning.
Jesus (peace be upon him) prayed to be saved from crucifixion.
Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. (John 26: 36)
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me. (John 26: 39)
…. He went away again, and prayed the second time and prayed, saying ……and prayed the third time, saying the same words. (John 26:42-44)

God answered his prayers
And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I think thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always. (John 11:41-42)

God even sent an Angel to strengthen him
And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. (Luke 22: 43-44)

But after all these, what was the result? According to you, he died a shameful death, he died a cursed man.
Here goes; Isn't the death of Jesus (peace be upon him) contradictory to Yahweh's promise to Jesus (peace be upon him) who prayed fervently to be saved from crucifixion, yet, died of crucifixion??Can someone help a brother to explain this please. Thank you in advance.

Wow! Your method of reasoning is really astonishing!

Salaam.

Your observation is carnally right but spiritually wrong. Jesus knew he would die, and in fact, that is what he came to do.

If you are interested in the truth surrounding the death of Jesus read it here:

http://www.100prophecies.org/page4.htm

jchioma:


It is clear from the foregoing that you have no idea on God's plan of salvation, just like the princes of this world. For had they known that in Christ's death was the fulfilment of God's purpose, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. Face the OP's question, though it is clear you have no answer.

salvation my arse.

truthmans2012:


Your observation is carnally right but spiritually wrong. Jesus knew he would die, and in fact, that is what he came to do.

If you are interested in the truth surrounding the death of Jesus read it here:

http://www.100prophecies.org/page4.htm

I do not want any unnecessary arguments, or unnecessary prolongation of discussions, so, let's leave it at that.

But here is my point, if the method of reasoning of the OP is used, it shows that Yahweh failed in his promise, because there was definitely a promise there, except that it was not fulfilled. Coming to the verse of the Qur'an quoted by the OP, any intellectual person would see that there is no promise there.

Salaam.

Jibril659:
Yes, that and more, Islam is still the world's fastest growing religion.

Fastest growing religion in terms of what?

Converts

Or

Number of kids you guys gave birth to?


Fools! Spewing thrash since time immemorial...

Haroun13:

I do not want any unnecessary arguments, or unnecessary prolongation of discussions, so, let's leave it at that.

But here is my point, if the method of reasoning of the OP is used, it shows that Yahweh failed in his promise, because there was definitely a promise there, except that it was not fulfilled. Coming to the verse of the Qur'an quoted by the OP, any intellectual person would see that there is no promise there.

Salaam.

But when Muhammad was dying, Gabriel prayed for him and promised allaah would heal him, which was not fulfilled. Again, the quran you call a miracle was recited on him but no miracle happened, he died eventually.

truthmans2012:


But when Muhammad was dying, Gabriel prayed for him and promised allaah would heal him, which was not fulfilled.

Well, Jibrail is not God. Besides, if the Prophet of Allah (peace be upon him) had chosen to live for more years, when he was asked to choose between this life and the next, he would be healed, but he chose heaven.

Again, the quran you call a miracle was recited on him but no miracle happened, he died eventually.

OK.

Haroun13:

Well, Jibrail is not God. Besides, if the Prophet of Allah (peace be upon him) had chosen to live for more years, when he was asked to choose between this life and the next, he would be healed, but he chose heaven.


OK.

If Gabriel is not Allah and therefore his word or promise should not be taken seriously, it means the quran he brought is not credible.

Was Gabrie not aware as an angel that Muhammad chose heaven before praying for his healing and still promised Allah would heal him? Where did he say he chose heaven?

truthmans2012:


Yes, islam must be retrogressing. God hates islam but loves repented muslisms. Islam is anti-God and Antichrist.

A war is coming that will consume more than 50% of the muslim world and it is not going to be long. The UN on the 24th December, 2016 had passed a Resolution for Israel to handover the land in dispute to the muslim Palestinians. Israel will not obey the Resolution and the result will be world war as predicted by the Bible. God is at work, he purposely made Donald Trump to win the US presidential election against Obama and Hillary Clinton. Obama is an enemy to Israel being a muslim.

Donald Trump had declared his intention to fight the muslims in support of Israel and as God would have it, Putin, the Russian President is already fraternizing with Donald Trump and in fact, they are good friends now.For this, Obama has threatened to sue Trump for treason.The way is clear for world war against muslims nations.

I smell WW3 everywhere. Its quite interesting the UN are validating biblical prophecy. We know that the bible is the book of life. The life we live today tell that. Look at clear prophecy fulfilling in our own eyes. As Christians, we ought to watch world news. It helps us appreciate the bible more. Things are happening accurately. May God open some blind eyes to understand prophecy.

The way i am seeing things, Obama will have high blood pressure because of Donald Trump if care is not taken..

Jibril659:
accidents how, Hajj attracts millions of people from different parts of the world.

Millions and more than 2k died in 2015. Hajj always provoke death. A place where allah claimed if you visit you will return back home safely. Think with ur head and start asking all.ah questions before its too late

Haroun13:
[s]
Ordinarily, I would ignore this, but for the sake of those who seek truth, I'll answer you.
First, I want to ask you, "do you know what a promise is?" maybe not, because from what you quoted, I don't see any promise of anything.



Let's assume you are right. So, let's apply your method of reasoning.
Jesus (peace be upon him) prayed to be saved from crucifixion.
Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. (John 26: 36)
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me. (John 26: 39)
…. He went away again, and prayed the second time and prayed, saying ……and prayed the third time, saying the same words. (John 26:42-44)

God answered his prayers
And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I think thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always. (John 11:41-42)

God even sent an Angel to strengthen him
And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. (Luke 22: 43-44)

But after all these, what was the result? According to you, he died a shameful death, he died a cursed man.
Here goes; Isn't the death of Jesus (peace be upon him) contradictory to Yahweh's promise to Jesus (peace be upon him) who prayed fervently to be saved from crucifixion, yet, died of crucifixion??Can someone help a brother to explain this please. Thank you in advance.

Wow! Your method of reasoning is really astonishing!

Salaam[/s].

Try harder next time . Answer the OP or you walk out.

truthmans2012:


But when Muhammad was dying, Gabriel prayed for him and promised allaah would heal him, which was not fulfilled. Again, the quran you call a miracle was recited on him but no miracle happened, he died eventually.

Haroun13:

Well, Jibrail is not God. Besides, if the Prophet of Allah (peace be upon him) had chosen to live for more years, when he was asked to choose between this life and the next, he would be healed, but he chose heaven.


OK.

Check my signature. ..

Stop diverting. Allah said you will return back home after the hajj. Yet history shows there have been numerous stampedes and other deadly incidents during hajj since 1975, thousands of pilgrims have lost their lives when they were supposed to return back home safely according to all.ah. You are here ranting, spewing garbage thinking you are making sense.

Again, Did alla.h failed or not?

truthmans2012:


If Gabriel is not Allah and therefore his word or promise should not be taken seriously, it means the quran he brought is not credible.

Was Gabrie not aware as an angel that Muhammad chose heaven before praying for his healing and still promised Allah would heal him? Where did he say he chose heaven?

GBAM....this Muslims confuse themselves anytime they try so hard to defend a lie in the Quran.

Haroun13:

Well, Jibrail is not God. Besides, if the Prophet of Allah (peace be upon him) had chosen to live for more years, when he was asked to choose between this life and the next, he would be healed, but he chose heaven.


OK.

Remember that in any second Allah say to the death angel bring my anime to my in the next second you will be with him ..

Really the Quran and you will blieve in it
Become Muslim and save yourself from a dark hill .. zillions and zillions of zillions of suffering

plappville:


GBAM....this Muslims confuse themselves anytime they try so hard to defend a lie in the Quran.

He choose havens when the Angel of death came to him and make him choose life untell the dead people become live again or be with Allah
He choose Allah

truthmans2012:


If Gabriel is not Allah and therefore his word or promise should not be taken seriously, it means the quran he brought is not credible.

I most definitely said that Jibrail is not Allah, because he is not, but I never said his words shouldn't be taken seriously. Rather, what I implied is that Angel Jibrail (peace be upon him) can not heal anyone. He can certainly pray as he did, but it is ultimately Allah Almighty that decides what takes place and what not.

Was Gabrie not aware as an angel that Muhammad chose heaven before praying for his healing and still promised Allah would heal him?

Volume 005, Book 059, Hadith Number 713.
Narrated By Ibn Abbas : 'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to let Ibn Abbas sit beside him, so 'AbdurRahman bin 'Auf said to 'Umar, "We have sons similar to him." 'Umar replied, "(I respect him) because of his status that you know." 'Umar then asked Ibn 'Abbas about the meaning of this Holy Verse: "When comes the help of Allah and the conquest of Mecca..." (110.1)
Ibn 'Abbas replied, "That indicated the death of Allah's Apostle which Allah informed him of." 'Umar said, "I do not understand of it except what you understand."
This means that the prophet of Allah (peace be upon him) was informed of his death, but whether Angel Jibrail knew or not, I do not know. But one thing that is certain is that the Angels do not know, except what Allah has permitted them to know, as shown in the garden when Adam named that which the Angels couldn't name.

Where did he say he chose heaven?

“Allah has given a slave the choice between immortality in this world for as long as Allah wills, or meeting his Lord, and he has chosen to meet his Lord.” [Mishkat al-Masabih, 2/546]
This is what he said at the end of his life. Abu Bakr wept, and the people were surprised that Abu Bakr wept at these words. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was the one who was given the choice, and Abu Bakr knew the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) better than any of the people.

plappville:


Check my signature. ..

Stop diverting. Allah said you will return back home after the hajj. Yet history shows there have been numerous stampedes and other deadly incidents during hajj since 1975, thousands of pilgrims have lost their lives when they were supposed to return back home safely according to all.ah.

I'm not going to waste time repeating myself because it seems like you don't read. I already gave an answer, go back to the post you canceled, my answer is on the first paragraph. After reading that, then answer my question which comes in the second paragraph, if you are truthful.

You are here ranting, spewing garbage thinking you are making sense.

OK

Again, Did alla.h failed or not?

If you read my post, you will know that you should be asking yourself if Yahweh failed or not.
But I guess you are not here to seek truth, just to throw baseless accusations in a desperate attempt to fault Islam, which mind you, is perfect.

Salaam.

Haroun13

I most definitely said that Jibrail is not Allah, because he is not, but I never said his words shouldn't be taken seriously. Rather, what I implied is that Angel Jibrail (peace be upon him) can not heal anyone. He can certainly pray as he did, but it is ultimately Allah Almighty that decides what takes place and what not.

Muhammad could not heal anyone, Gabriel could not heal anyone, Allah could not heal anyone, even his jihadists who ate poison, but they could take lives, na wa o !!! You should believe now that allaah is not God. God cannot be that weak. You know what, I haven't heard of Muhammad praying for anybody as a prophet, not even for his jihadists who ate poison. Did the jihadists also choose to go to heaven?

Volume 005, Book 059, Hadith Number 713.
Narrated By Ibn Abbas : 'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to let Ibn Abbas sit beside him, so 'AbdurRahman bin 'Auf said to 'Umar, "We have sons similar to him." 'Umar replied, "(I respect him) because of his status that you know." 'Umar then asked Ibn 'Abbas about the meaning of this Holy Verse: "When comes the help of Allah and the conquest of Mecca..." (110.1)
Ibn 'Abbas replied, "That indicated the death of Allah's Apostle which Allah informed him of." 'Umar said, "I do not understand of it except what you understand."
This means that the prophet of Allah (peace be upon him) was informed of his death, but whether Angel Jibrail knew or not, I do not know. But one thing that is certain is that the Angels do not know, except what Allah has permitted them to know, as shown in the garden when Adam named that which the Angels couldn't name

This is not credible. Firstly, the speaker in that hadith was not in a position to know that Allah had informed Muhammad of his death, even Jubril as an angel didn't know. Secondly, Muhammad was said to be receiving messages from Jubril and not directly from allah. Then, from who did Muhammad receive the message of his death when Jubril didn't know? If Jubril had known Muhammad was going to die, he would not pray for him and promise allah would heal him.


“

Allah has given a slave the choice between immortality in this world for as long as Allah wills, or meeting his Lord, and he has chosen to meet his Lord.” [Mishkat al-Masabih, 2/546]
This is what he said at the end of his life. Abu Bakr wept, and the people were surprised that Abu Bakr wept at these words. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was the one who was given the choice, and Abu Bakr knew the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) better than any of the people.

This must be false. How did Muhammad know "Allah has given a slave the choice between immortality in this world for as long as Allah wills, or meeting his Lord, and he has chosen to meet his Lord.” [Mishkat al-Masabih, 2/546]" when Jubril didn't tell him so? Did he have other sources of revelations other than Jubril?

.

truthmans2012:


Muhammad could not heal anyone, Gabriel could not heal anyone,

Except by Allah's permission.

Allah could not heal anyone, even his jihadists who ate poison,

Yet he (Muhammad, peace be upon him) lived for 3-4yrs after eating the poison, whereas the other companion, Bishr died immediately. THAT CAN ONLY HAPPEN BY DIVINE INTERVENTION

but they could take lives, na wa o !!!

OK.

You should believe now that allaah is not God.

OK.

God cannot be that weak.

You are right, just like Yahweh promised Jesus (answered his prayers) to save him from crucifixion but failed. So, you should realize now that Yahweh is not God, God cannot be that weak.
What is the point of the above statement? To show you that anyone can make rules also.

You know what, I haven't heard of Muhammad praying for anybody as a prophet,

Please do your research very well.

not even for his jihadists who ate poison.

OK.

Did the jihadists also choose to go to heaven?

If you've been following, you'll realize that it's only a privilege accorded to Messengers of God.

This is not credible.

That's your business.

Firstly, the speaker in that hadith was not in a position to know that Allah had informed Muhammad of his death, even Jubril as an angel didn't know.

That's like saying that Adam was not in a position to know the names of what was asked by God, because the Angels were not aware.

Secondly, Muhammad was said to be receiving messages from Jubril and not directly from allah. Then, from who did Muhammad receive the message of his death when Jubril didn't know?

From my previous post, the message was in form of a verse, therefore, it is possible that Jibrail conveyed the verse, not knowing the meaning, because Allah had not given him knowledge of it.

If Jubril had known Muhammad was going to die, he would not pray for him and promise allah would heal him.

From the above, it's obvious that he couldn't have known.
But, let's assume for a second that he did, that doesn't change anything. Drawing a similitude on a lower level, it's like saying that because the doctor has confirmed that your mother will die, and your mother has knowledge of it, then you shouldn't pray for her and even assure her that she will be well, or healed.

“This must be false.

Again, that's your business

How did Muhammad know "Allah has given a slave the choice between immortality in this world for as long as Allah wills, or meeting his Lord, and he has chosen to meet his Lord.” [Mishkat al-Masabih, 2/546]" when Jubril didn't tell him so? Did he have other sources of revelations other than Jubril?

Allah gives his servant knowledge of whatever He wills. Your statement is like asking how Adam knew the names of what was presented before him, when he wasn't told by an Angel. Like I said, Allah informs his servant of whatever he wills.
But even if Jibrail was the one Allah sent to give Muhammad (peace be upon him) the message, it still doesn't change anything, because, like I said, he (Jibrail) conveying the message doesn't mean he understands the meaning of it.
Again, drawing a similitude on a much lower level, it's just like you being sent on an errand, to pass and envelope to someone. You do not know what it contains, but the sender and receiver most definitely have knowledge of it.

Salaam.

Haroun13:

Except by Allah's permission.


Yet he (Muhammad, peace be upon him) lived for 3-4yrs after eating the poison, whereas the other companion, Bishr died immediately. THAT CAN ONLY HAPPEN BY DIVINE INTERVENTION


OK.


OK.


You are right, just like Yahweh promised Jesus (answered his prayers) to save him from crucifixion but failed. So, you should realize now that Yahweh is not God, God cannot be that weak.
What is the point of the above statement? To show you that anyone can make rules also.


Please do your research very well.


OK.


If you've been following, you'll realize that it's only a privilege accorded to Messengers of God.



That's your business.


That's like saying that Adam was not in a position to know the names of what was asked by God, because the Angels were not aware.


From my previous post, the message was in form of a verse, therefore, it is possible that Jibrail conveyed the verse, not knowing the meaning, because Allah had not given him knowledge of it.


From the above, it's obvious that he couldn't have known.
But, let's assume for a second that he did, that doesn't change anything. Drawing a similitude on a lower level, it's like saying that because the doctor has confirmed that your mother will die, and your mother has knowledge of it, then you shouldn't pray for her and even assure her that she will be well, or healed.



Again, that's your business


[b]Allah gives his servant knowledge of whatever He wills.[/b]Your statement is like asking how Adam knew the names of what was presented before him, when he wasn't told by an Angel. Like I said, Allah informs his servant of whatever he wills.
But even if Jibrail was the one Allah sent to give Muhammad (peace be upon him) the message, it still doesn't change anything, because, like I said, he (Jibrail) conveying the message doesn't mean he understands the meaning of it.
Again, drawing a similitude on a much lower level, it's just like you being sent on an errand, to pass and envelope to someone. You do not know what it contains, but the sender and receiver most definitely have knowledge of it.

Salaam.

The sum total of your post.is that Muhammad knew allaah's revelations better than Jubril who brought them. How reasonable? Hummmm !!!

We are told in islam that Jubril was coming to rehearse the quran with Muhammad to avoid him making mistakes, but you are here saying Jubril didn't know the meaning of the message he was carrying. How reasonable?

You are yet to say anything about why Muhammad wasn't praying for anyone for healing, not even for his jihadists who were dying of poison.

For your information, there were many prophecies about Jesus coming and dying. God of the Bible does not change his prophecies like Allah.was changing his revelations calling the change the better ones (Quran 2:106).

Jibril659:
Yes, that and more, Islam is still the world's fastest growing religion.

U say yes? u mean we kill pple, re u a true muslim?

AlamienDagash:

U say yes? u mean we kill pple, re u a true muslim?

I do not have to respond to every thing on this forum

plappville:


Waoh, some of you Muslims are so proud of Allah's army eliminating the infidels. How does Islam grow in your eyes? Do you know how many Muslims dies in the Middle East each passing day? Sunningdale killing Shia is this not reducin your population ? Keep deceivin urself..

look.. in bible jesus say "kingdom will rise againts kingdom. nd he also say "an eye fo an eye. hvnt u learn sometin 4rom dis? hvnt u heard "u shud be ur broda keeper. why conflict? i luv jesus as much as u do. buh jesus has neva say u shud insult, or did he? pls u truly luv jesus christ stp dis

Jibril659:
Dude couldn't even save himself

now u re lieyin, iz pple like u whu makes muslim bad in d eye of d world. how could a prophet nt save himself? if nt 4 prophet muhammad(saw) i whud hve call u illitrate

AlamienDagash:

now u re lieyin, iz pple like u whu makes muslim bad in d eye of d world. how could a prophet nt save himself? if nt 4 prophet muhammad(saw) i whud hve call u illitrate

guy free me

truthmans2012:


The sum total of your post.is that Muhammad knew allaah's revelations better than Jubril who brought them. How reasonable? Hummmm !!!

We are told in islam that Jubril was coming to rehearse the quran with Muhammad to avoid him making mistakes, but you are here saying Jubril didn't know the meaning of the message he was carrying. How reasonable?

Seems like you are not getting me. I said that Allah gives knowledge of what He wills to whom He wills. Therefore, it was possible that Jibrail did not know the meanings of some of the Revelations, whereas Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He) gave Muhammad (peace be upon him) the capacity to understand them, as shown in the garden, when Adam named that which the Angels couldn't. This doesn't mean that the Angels didn't have knowledge of anything at all.

Also, if you've been following my posts, I gave 2 conditions; assuming that he (Jibrail) knew, and assuming that he didn't. So, either way, you've been answered.

You are yet to say anything about why Muhammad wasn't praying for anyone for healing,

Like I said, do your research very well.

not even for his jihadists who were dying of poison.

OK.

For your information, there were many prophecies about Jesus coming and dying.

OK. But he prayed, his prayer was answered, yet he was betrayed.

God of the Bible does not change his prophecies like Allah.was changing his revelations calling the change the better ones (Quran 2:106).

Sorry to burst your bubble, here's your quote:
"Such of Our revelations as We abrogated or cause to be forgotten, We bring (in place) better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things?" (Qur'an 2:106)
First, you should go and check your dictionary for the meaning of "abrogation".
Second, show me a single prophesy in the Quran that has been abrogated.
Please, make arguments that count, not baseless claims.

Salaam.