MuttleyLaff:
Abraham was not under the Mosaic law
but Abraham gave tithe under a custom law of that prevailing society setting to give a tenth of war spoils to a king cum priest of considerable or worthwhile repute

I don't think there was any custom law. Read that verse carefully and you would realise that Melchizedek didn't want to take the tithe.
It was just a free will giving. Who knows, maybe he had a revelation of it.

Junia:
I don't think there was any custom law

I think you better start thinking and knowing there existed such custom then

Junia:
Read that verse carefully and you would realise that Melchizedek didn't want to take the tithe

You have mixed up personalities for each other.
Melchizedek, at no time, didn't want to take the tithe

Junia:
It was just a free will giving

I would love to have told you, it was a free will offering
but then, I will be lying like a Persian rug.

Junia:
Who knows, maybe he had a revelation of it

Brother, if it was a revelation, it will be transmitted, revealed as a dream or through angelic visitations, but none of either happened

Junia:

Good. The tithe you just mentioned was under the law (The law of Moses).
Now, no Christian is under the law of Moses.
So you can decide to pay tithes. Not because God is demanding it. But because you are grateful of His provisions.
An example is Abraham (Not under the Mosaic law)

Who says no Christian is under the law of moses, Remember Jesus said I have not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. The law of moses still stand.

Question: "What is the curse of the law?"
Answer: As opposed to the blessing, which is grace, the Law is a curse upon all mankind, none of whom can possibly fulfill its requirements. While the Law itself is perfect and holy, those who try to justify themselves before its holy Author bring not His blessing, but His curse upon themselves.
The Bible itself tells us what the curse of the Law is: “All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.’ Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, ‘the righteous will live by faith.’
The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, ‘The man who does these things will live by them.’
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree’” (Galatians 3:10–13).
What we must understand from this passage is that the curse is not the Law.
The curse is the penalty levied for not keeping the Law. The “Book of the Law” refers to the covenant laws that God made with His people during the time of Moses. The Law can point out where we fail and fall short of God’s will, but it cannot pronounce us righteous; that was not its purpose.
In Galatians 3 the apostle Paul is telling us that everyone who does not keep the Law perfectly is cursed by it (Deuteronomy 27:26; Galatians 3:10).
The reason is that no one can obey the Law perfectly. In fact, there were over 600 laws the Jews had to keep to be right in the eyes of God.
The breaking of even one commandment put a person under condemnation.
Trying to achieve salvation through obedience to the Law is futile. For example, we all regularly break the first and greatest commandment by failing to love God first with all our hearts, minds and strength (Matthew 22:37–38)
As a result, everyone has broken the commandments, and everyone is cursed.
The Law demands perfection—an impossibility because we’re all sinful (Romans 3:10, 23)
As a result, all who try to live by the Old Law were under a divine curse.
But the good news is that Jesus Christ “redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us” (Galatians 3:13)
Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice on the cross when He bore God’s curse. Paul explains how in his letter to the Romans: “God presented [Jesus] as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in His blood.
He did this to demonstrate His justice, because in His forbearance He had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—He did it to demonstrate His justice at the present time, so as to be just and the One who justifies those who have faith in Jesus” (Romans 3:25–26)
The curse of the Law fell on Christ on our behalf so that the righteousness of God could fall on us, though we did not deserve it
(2 Corinthians 5:21)
Not even the Jews are under Moses law-nor should you be tither..

samuelezekiel:


Who says no Christian is under the law of moses, Remember Jesus said I have not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. The law of moses still stand.

brocab:
Question: "What is the curse of the law?"
Answer: As opposed to the blessing, which is grace, the Law is a curse upon all mankind, none of whom can possibly fulfill its requirements. While the Law itself is perfect and holy, those who try to justify themselves before its holy Author bring not His blessing, but His curse upon themselves.
The Bible itself tells us what the curse of the Law is: “All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.’ Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, ‘the righteous will live by faith.’
The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, ‘The man who does these things will live by them.’
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree’” (Galatians 3:10–13).
What we must understand from this passage is that the curse is not the Law.
The curse is the penalty levied for not keeping the Law. The “Book of the Law” refers to the covenant laws that God made with His people during the time of Moses. The Law can point out where we fail and fall short of God’s will, but it cannot pronounce us righteous; that was not its purpose.
In Galatians 3 the apostle Paul is telling us that everyone who does not keep the Law perfectly is cursed by it (Deuteronomy 27:26; Galatians 3:10).
The reason is that no one can obey the Law perfectly. In fact, there were over 600 laws the Jews had to keep to be right in the eyes of God.
The breaking of even one commandment put a person under condemnation.
Trying to achieve salvation through obedience to the Law is futile. For example, we all regularly break the first and greatest commandment by failing to love God first with all our hearts, minds and strength (Matthew 22:37–38)
As a result, everyone has broken the commandments, and everyone is cursed.
The Law demands perfection—an impossibility because we’re all sinful (Romans 3:10, 23)
As a result, all who try to live by the Old Law were under a divine curse.
But the good news is that Jesus Christ “redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us” (Galatians 3:13)
Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice on the cross when He bore God’s curse. Paul explains how in his letter to the Romans: “God presented [Jesus] as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in His blood.
He did this to demonstrate His justice, because in His forbearance He had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—He did it to demonstrate His justice at the present time, so as to be just and the One who justifies those who have faith in Jesus” (Romans 3:25–26)
The curse of the Law fell on Christ on our behalf so that the righteousness of God could fall on us, though we did not deserve it
(2 Corinthians 5:21)
Not even the Jews are under Moses law-nor should you be tither..

I know that the epistle that Paul wrote can be very confusing at time, you think this is what Paul is Saying but when you get to the end you start to ask yourself again what is he trying to say and you get confused. But please I want you to read these passages carefully to the end. In summary there are two types of law)( permit me to say that), the law of sin and death, the law of God (Spirit of life)
Romans 9:13-23 '... For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace... For the wages of sin is death,.... "
Romans 7:1-25" Or do you know, brethren(for I speak to those under the law) the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?... What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not!... Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment, holy and just and good... For we Know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. "
Romans 8:1-10"... For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death... That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit... "

Junia:

Good. The tithe you just mentioned was under the law (The law of Moses).
Now, no Christian is under the law of Moses.
So you can decide to pay tithes. Not because God is demanding it. But because you are grateful of His provisions.
An example is Abraham (Not under the Mosaic law)

Just for clarification, what law are we under?
And are you saying that the law is given by Moses not God?

Junia:


They were still under the law at that time
Christians are not under the law
Tithing was not money but agricultural products
Jesus didnt pay tithe neither did His disciples because they had no agricultural products
The tithe was for the levites .. priests .. widows etc
Now we Christians are the royal priesthood
Who are we paying tithes to ??

Anything Jesus said is final, anything He upheld, applies to us now. For example, when Jesus spoke on divorce, what were they under? Is His teaching on divorce relevant till now? So since Jesus, said "you should tithe, yes" (Matt 23: 23 NLT) it is expected of us to tithe. The tithe originally was for God, not priests. The bible said, the Levites paid tithe to Melchizedek (Heb 7:9). Your tithes are for God, if any pastor is eating the tithe, he/she is stealing from God.

joshnes:
Anything Jesus said is final, anything He upheld, applies to us now. For example, when Jesus spoke on divorce, what were they under? Is His teaching on divorce relevant till now? So since Jesus, said "you should tithe, yes" (Matt 23: 23 NLT) it is expected of us to tithe. The tithe originally was for God, not priests. The bible said, the Levites paid tithe to Melchizedek (Heb 7:9). Your tithes are for God, if any pastor is eating the tithe, he/she is stealing from God.

No. Jesus preached the law to those under the law.
And He preached grace too.
When reading the bible, consider these things so that you do not confuse yourself.
Concerning divorce, didn't you realise Jesus preached grace instead of law ? Didn't you see him setting aside the law of Moses and establishing a new message concerning divorce ?


Please read and understand the word of God

samuelezekiel:

Just for clarification, what law are we under? And are you saying that the law is given by Moses not God?

The law was given to Moses by God. Now Christ has fulfilled that law. Therefore we are under grace. So we are under the law of Christ not the law of Moses.

samuelezekiel:


Who says no Christian is under the law of moses, Remember Jesus said I have not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. The law of moses still stand.

Please read your bible before you come here.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 3:24 - 25
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

I guess you do not understand grace. Humble yourself and let me teach you.

MuttleyLaff:
I think you better start thinking and knowing there existed such custom then

You have mixed up personalities for each other.
Melchizedek, at no time, didn't want to take the tithe

I would love to have told you, it was a free will offering
but then, I will be lying like a Persian rug.

Brother, if it was a revelation, it will be transmitted, revealed as a dream or through angelic visitations, but none of either happened

You just contradicted yourself.
You established that such custom existed though the bible didn't talk about it.
Then you concluded that it wasn't a revelation because the bible didn't record anything as such.


So you see, you established your fact apart from the bible (it wasn't recorded) and i did the same but kine is wrong because you want me to believe what you said.

Also, if it wasn't a free will offering then show me where he was commanded to do so or the custom that demanded tithe fron war booty.


Thanks

Junia:

No. Jesus preached the law to those under the law.
And He preached grace too.
When reading the bible, consider these things so that you do not confuse yourself.
Concerning divorce, didn't you realise Jesus preached grace instead of law ? Didn't you see him setting aside the law of Moses and establishing a new message concerning divorce ?


Please read and understand the word of God

Who did He preach grace to?

I hope this will give you a better understanding what law you have chosen to obey, to be honest a true Christian in the love of Christ is a natural giver-we give until the sun go's down, this is the law of Christ, the law of Moses is this, we give God 10%.
If I was to walk into a Church and after the tithes were handed over to the Pastor, and after the sermon, the Pastor said: now all those in need, stand up and be given 10% on top of the 10% you have given to the Church. Could this be called God's Church.
{John 1:17} For the law was giving through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

The Mosaic Law of Tithing.
Read and Listen Moses finally came to the conclusion that a tithing system was necessary for the nation of Israel. This occurred at the beginning of the second year of the Exodus. He told the Israelites that they should henceforth give a tenth part of their seed crops and fruit trees plus every tenth animal to the treasury in the newly erected Tabernacle (Leviticus 27:30-33) One should notice three points about this initial law that are commonly overlooked today.
At first, Moses discouraged Israelites from giving tithe in money though Moses reluctantly allowed it.
For example, if anyone insisted on retaining any increase of the crops for personal use, Moses demanded an extra fifth part premium
(Leviticus 27:31)
Moses did not mind them paying in money for crops, but they had to give the extra premium for the privilege.
It is strange, but Christian ministers today would rather have the money than the foodstuffs that Moses ordained. Preachers in demanding the tithe are magnanimous and they usually don’t ask for the one-fifth premium for the privilege of paying in money rather than in kind.
Secondly, since the tithe was only required on agricultural crops and herds, little produce would have been given to the treasury while Israel was in the desert of Sinai. Israel had little agricultural crops produced in that desolate wilderness to tithe
(Deuteronomy 29:5–6)

Thirdly, Moses did not say in the Book of Leviticus how the tithe was to be spent or to whom it was to be given.
He simply said that Israelites were required to pay the tithe. Obviously, the monies were placed in the Tabernacle (the Temple) treasury and this limited amount of produce was placed in storage bins.
Let us now examine the tithing system. "What Products Were Tithed?
Many people have been hasty in assuming that all the income earned by Israelites was subject to the laws of tithing. This was not the case. Any Jewish rabbi can inform a person what items were to be tithed because the Bible makes the matter plain. This point should be noted very carefully.
There were only two types of income that were tithable: One was from agricultural production. "All the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord’s" (Leviticus 27:30)
This meant that a tenth of all agricultural produce of the land of Israel, whether fruits or vegetables, had to be tithed.

The second type of tithable income was the increase of animals. "All the tithe of the herd or flock, whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord" (verse 32) Only these two specific income producers were subject to the tithe.
There is only one exception to this rule. {Leviticus 27:31} reads: "If a man will redeem ought of his tithe, he shall add unto it the fifth part thereof." In other words, if a man for various reasons did not wish to pay his tithe in kind (and he wished to give money as a substitute), he was penalized a fifth part.
Such a law was obviously not intended to encourage payment of the tithe in money. Monetary redemption, on the other hand, was not allowed for the tithe of animals. Moses declared: "It shall not be redeemed" (verse 33)
This means that the tithing law of the Bible prohibited cattle ranchers from paying money at all.
They were required to give the tenth animal no matter if they wanted to keep it for some reason to themselves.

Who Did Not Tithe?
Since farmers and ranchers were responsible for paying the tithe, we now come to an equally important question: Who was not required to tithe?
It is often surprising to people to find that a large segment of people in Israel did not tithe!
The owner of a farm had to tithe, but his hired hands were exempt. Was a hired hand required to tithe on his salary? Not at all!
There was no law that required a tenth of one’s salary to be tithed (which was earned for services rendered).
Only the crops and animals of those who owned them were subject to the tithe.
After all, the crops and the animals did not belong to the hired hand and only the increase from one’s land or animals was subject to the tithe.

And note this. Fishermen did not tithe, though this industry is mentioned in the law (Leviticus 11:9–12)
Likewise, the mining industry is referred to (Deuteronomy 8:9) but the tithe of minerals extracted from the earth was never called for.
The lumber business is mentioned (1 Kings 5:7–12) and construction work on buildings (1 Kings 5:13–18) but tithes were not extracted from people who worked in those trades. {Not like how they claim the tithe today}
The same held true for those earning an income from weaving, handicrafts, or from any form of manufacturing or merchandising. They all were immune from tithing including all those in the military and government workers.
And though the Levites were commanded to pay a tenth of the tithe they received from the farmers and ranchers to the Priests, those Priests themselves were totally exempt from paying any tithe.

To make it plain and simple, only the owners of farms and flocks were required to tithe. Indeed, the Israelite who had fewer than ten cattle did not have to tithe on nine of them because the requirement stated that only the tenth animal that passed under the rod was to be tithed (Leviticus 27:32) Looking at this matter of the tenth animal being tithed from our present monetary point of view, a rancher could have many thousands of dollars invested in nine cattle, but unless he had a tenth he was not required to tithe a penny of his assets.

{Some Christian ministers commonly teach that the tithe is God’s and that he must get his money first. But the Bible says it is the tenth animal (the last one) that passes under the rod that is God’s, not the first.}

These clear biblical teachings present some real dilemmas for Christian ministers today who want to use the tithe for their church activities. If a minister wanted his members of his church to abide by the tithing laws, why doesn’t he teach them to perform them the way the Bible instructs?
If church members who live in a city wanted to tithe according to biblical law, they would be paying a tenth of their garden produce (if they had gardens) or a tenth of their chickens (if they had chickens) Even if they earned $2,000 a month in other income, that’s all they would be required to tithe. This would hardly be enough to support normal church activities today. Yet this is the precise law of tithing which was ordained for Israel by God.

samuelezekiel:

I know that the epistle that Paul wrote can be very confusing at time, you think this is what Paul is Saying but when you get to the end you start to ask yourself again what is he trying to say and you get confused. But please I want you to read these passages carefully to the end. In summary there are two types of law)( permit me to say that), the law of sin and death, the law of God (Spirit of life)
Romans 9:13-23 '... For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace... For the wages of sin is death,.... "
Romans 7:1-25" Or do you know, brethren(for I speak to those under the law) the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?... What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not!... Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment, holy and just and good... For we Know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. "
Romans 8:1-10"... For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death... That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit... "

joshnes:
Who did He preach grace to?

Those who humbled themselves to learn

Junia:

Those who humbled themselves to learn

so in essence Jesus preached two messages; The Law & Grace. Sir, if that's what you're saying I beg to differ "for the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." (John 1:17). Whatever He said is the truth, even if it was in the law, it became the truth immediately He uttered it. Jesus fulfilled the law, and then left us with grace, He did not preach the law He preached truth.

brocab:
I hope this will give you a better understanding what law you have chosen to obey, to be honest a true Christian in the love of Christ is a natural giver-we give until the sun go's down, this is the law of Christ, the law of Moses is this, we give God 10%.
If I was to walk into a Church and after the tithes were handed over to the Pastor, and after the sermon, the Pastor said: now all those in need, stand up and be given 10% on top of the 10% you have given to the Church. Could this be called God's Church.
{John 1:17} For the law was giving through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

The Mosaic Law of Tithing.
Read and Listen Moses finally came to the conclusion that a tithing system was necessary for the nation of Israel. This occurred at the beginning of the second year of the Exodus. He told the Israelites that they should henceforth give a tenth part of their seed crops and fruit trees plus every tenth animal to the treasury in the newly erected Tabernacle (Leviticus 27:30-33) One should notice three points about this initial law that are commonly overlooked today.
At first, Moses discouraged Israelites from giving tithe in money though Moses reluctantly allowed it.
For example, if anyone insisted on retaining any increase of the crops for personal use, Moses demanded an extra fifth part premium
(Leviticus 27:31)
Moses did not mind them paying in money for crops, but they had to give the extra premium for the privilege.
It is strange, but Christian ministers today would rather have the money than the foodstuffs that Moses ordained. Preachers in demanding the tithe are magnanimous and they usually don’t ask for the one-fifth premium for the privilege of paying in money rather than in kind.
Secondly, since the tithe was only required on agricultural crops and herds, little produce would have been given to the treasury while Israel was in the desert of Sinai. Israel had little agricultural crops produced in that desolate wilderness to tithe
(Deuteronomy 29:5–6)

Thirdly, Moses did not say in the Book of Leviticus how the tithe was to be spent or to whom it was to be given.
He simply said that Israelites were required to pay the tithe. Obviously, the monies were placed in the Tabernacle (the Temple) treasury and this limited amount of produce was placed in storage bins.
Let us now examine the tithing system. "What Products Were Tithed?
Many people have been hasty in assuming that all the income earned by Israelites was subject to the laws of tithing. This was not the case. Any Jewish rabbi can inform a person what items were to be tithed because the Bible makes the matter plain. This point should be noted very carefully.
There were only two types of income that were tithable: One was from agricultural production. "All the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord’s" (Leviticus 27:30)
This meant that a tenth of all agricultural produce of the land of Israel, whether fruits or vegetables, had to be tithed.

The second type of tithable income was the increase of animals. "All the tithe of the herd or flock, whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord" (verse 32) Only these two specific income producers were subject to the tithe.
There is only one exception to this rule. {Leviticus 27:31} reads: "If a man will redeem ought of his tithe, he shall add unto it the fifth part thereof." In other words, if a man for various reasons did not wish to pay his tithe in kind (and he wished to give money as a substitute), he was penalized a fifth part.
Such a law was obviously not intended to encourage payment of the tithe in money. Monetary redemption, on the other hand, was not allowed for the tithe of animals. Moses declared: "It shall not be redeemed" (verse 33)
This means that the tithing law of the Bible prohibited cattle ranchers from paying money at all.
They were required to give the tenth animal no matter if they wanted to keep it for some reason to themselves.

Who Did Not Tithe?
Since farmers and ranchers were responsible for paying the tithe, we now come to an equally important question: Who was not required to tithe?
It is often surprising to people to find that a large segment of people in Israel did not tithe!
The owner of a farm had to tithe, but his hired hands were exempt. Was a hired hand required to tithe on his salary? Not at all!
There was no law that required a tenth of one’s salary to be tithed (which was earned for services rendered).
Only the crops and animals of those who owned them were subject to the tithe.
After all, the crops and the animals did not belong to the hired hand and only the increase from one’s land or animals was subject to the tithe.

And note this. Fishermen did not tithe, though this industry is mentioned in the law (Leviticus 11:9–12)
Likewise, the mining industry is referred to (Deuteronomy 8:9) but the tithe of minerals extracted from the earth was never called for.
The lumber business is mentioned (1 Kings 5:7–12) and construction work on buildings (1 Kings 5:13–18) but tithes were not extracted from people who worked in those trades. {Not like how they claim the tithe today}
The same held true for those earning an income from weaving, handicrafts, or from any form of manufacturing or merchandising. They all were immune from tithing including all those in the military and government workers.
And though the Levites were commanded to pay a tenth of the tithe they received from the farmers and ranchers to the Priests, those Priests themselves were totally exempt from paying any tithe.

To make it plain and simple, only the owners of farms and flocks were required to tithe. Indeed, the Israelite who had fewer than ten cattle did not have to tithe on nine of them because the requirement stated that only the tenth animal that passed under the rod was to be tithed (Leviticus 27:32) Looking at this matter of the tenth animal being tithed from our present monetary point of view, a rancher could have many thousands of dollars invested in nine cattle, but unless he had a tenth he was not required to tithe a penny of his assets.

{Some Christian ministers commonly teach that the tithe is God’s and that he must get his money first. But the Bible says it is the tenth animal (the last one) that passes under the rod that is God’s, not the first.}

These clear biblical teachings present some real dilemmas for Christian ministers today who want to use the tithe for their church activities. If a minister wanted his members of his church to abide by the tithing laws, why doesn’t he teach them to perform them the way the Bible instructs?
If church members who live in a city wanted to tithe according to biblical law, they would be paying a tenth of their garden produce (if they had gardens) or a tenth of their chickens (if they had chickens) Even if they earned $2,000 a month in other income, that’s all they would be required to tithe. This would hardly be enough to support normal church activities today. Yet this is the precise law of tithing which was ordained for Israel by God.

First of all, it wasn't Moses' law it's God's law for Moses wasn't the one that came to the conclusion( John 1:17)
The levite are also expected to give( Num 18:29)
The Israelite occupation was Agriculture they are to tithe out of their produce.

Deuteronomy 14:22-29.
They are to tithe year by year
The tithe is to be eaten by them in the place that the LORD in the place where He choose to make His name abide (why) so that they may learn to fear the LORD always.
They can change the exchange the tithe for money if the place the LORD chooses is too long, then they are to go with the money to the place and buy whatever their heart desires, they are to eat it their before the LORD and rejoice they and their household.
The Levite are not to be forsake for the have no inheritance, therefore at the end of every third year they are to bring out the tithe of the produce of that year and store it so that the Levite and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow may come and eat and be satisfied, that the LORD may bless you in the work of their hands.

God doesn't need or have want for their money, the tithe was for their sake that's why money was been discouraged. And it's to encourage them to rejoice in God's presence. It's when you eat and you're satisfied that's when you can make merry, besides God loves celebrations and merriment.

joshnes:
so in essence Jesus preached two messages; The Law & Grace. Sir, if that's what you're saying I beg to differ "for the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." (John 1:17). Whatever He said is the truth, even if it was in the law, it became the truth immediately He uttered it. Jesus fulfilled the law, and then left us with grace, He did not preach the law He preached truth.

To those under the law, Jesus preached the pure and unadulterated Law of Moses. When religious people came to trap him with theological puzzles, Jesus would respond with, “What did Moses command you?” (Mk 10:3). If someone asked, “What is the greatest commandment in the law ,” Jesus would provide an answer from the law (Mt 22:36). In His law-keeping ministry, Jesus honored the Law of Moses: The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. (Mt 23:2-3)
Jesus esteemed the law and the purpose for which it was given. The law was given to silence every mouth and hold the whole world accountable (Rms 3:19). The purpose of the law is to make us conscious of sin and reveal our need for a Savior.

So you see, Jesus preached the law and revealed grace and truth afterwards.

I know it is hard for you to accept bro, but now you are arguing over Word of God, the truth is starring at you, but if you aren't willing, the truth will be hidden from you.
We have all been down this same road, it was the Lord that directed us out from the wolves, If you choose not to believe "The Old Covenant is the Law of Moses. than what can I do? you may believe you are still under the Laws of Moses-but I assure you, Christians are not obligated to keep “the law of Moses.”When Paul discussed “the law,” he was often concerned with the entire law of Moses, and he wrote that Christians were not under the authority of that law.
But if you are seeing the bible written some other way, then let it be, your choice.
Our obligation to obey God is defined by a different law, a spiritual law, which in some cases overlaps Old Testament laws but in other cases supersedes them.
The New Testament is consistent. First, the matter of covenants. They are discussed in detail in the book of {Hebrews 8} There, the High Priesthood of Jesus Christ is contrasted with the Levitical high priesthood.
The ministry Jesus received is far superior to the Levitical ministry, and his covenant is far superior to the old covenant (verse 6).
But there was a problem with the first covenant—the people were not faithful and were not able to obey it fully. (verses 7-9). God therefore promised a new covenant, and “by calling this covenant `new,’ he has made the first one obsolete” (verse 13) The old covenant is obsolete—ended-finished.
The agreement and its terms of relationship no longer have authority.
The writer of Hebrews says that the old covenant “will soon disappear,” and indeed most of its operations ceased in A.D. 70 when Roman armies destroyed the Temple. "But sadly enough Churches today have rebuilt the temple for financial gain."
Even though elements of the old covenant system continue to be observed in Judaism, the New Testament declares that the old covenant itself is obsolete. "Now, we must ask, just what was the old covenant? What laws are we talking about here? First, the core of the old covenant is the Ten Commandments (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13).
As part of the old covenant, the people at Mt. Sinai also agreed to obey all the laws in {Exodus 20, 21, 22 and 23} These additional laws became part of the covenant God made with Israel, and the covenant was then ratified with blood (Exodus 24:6-.
This is the covenant that has been declared obsolete. It has no legal authority. Further, we cannot assume that any part of the contract is valid when the entire contract has been declared obsolete. We cannot assume that any particular group of laws must remain together. The old covenant included much more than {Exodus 20-23}
{Hebrews 9:1} tells us that it also included directions for the tabernacle. Instructions for the altar, Levitical priests and animal sacrifices were given in {Exodus 25-31} These were part of God’s original plan for Israel.
He knew very well that the people would sin and would need a tabernacle and regular burnt offerings. It was all part of the plan, part of his relationship with his people, part of his covenant.
You in the other hand sounds you are trying to reinstate the old covenant law, tithing or burnt offerings doesn't belong to us, and It doesn't matter which way you turn, God have brought believers from all walks of life, to witness the truth, we have all been deceived by the tithing lie.
These wolves of prosperity, are men who have caused disputes and arguments, men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth who suppose that godliness, is their means of financial gain. Jesus said: from such withdraw ourselves. {1 Timothy 6:3-5}
Thanking you for sharing a little history, but tithing is not for us..

samuelezekiel:


First of all, it wasn't Moses' law it's God's law for Moses wasn't the one that came to the conclusion( John 1:17)
The levite are also expected to give( Num 18:29)
The Israelite occupation was Agriculture they are to tithe out of their produce.

Deuteronomy 14:22-29.
They are to tithe year by year
The tithe is to be eaten by them in the place that the LORD in the place where He choose to make His name abide (why) so that they may learn to fear the LORD always.
They can change the exchange the tithe for money if the place the LORD chooses is too long, then they are to go with the money to the place and buy whatever their heart desires, they are to eat it their before the LORD and rejoice they and their household.
The Levite are not to be forsake for the have no inheritance, therefore at the end of every third year they are to bring out the tithe of the produce of that year and store it so that the Levite and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow may come and eat and be satisfied, that the LORD may bless you in the work of their hands.

God doesn't need or have want for their money, the tithe was for their sake that's why money was been discouraged. And it's to encourage them to rejoice in God's presence. It's when you eat and you're satisfied that's when you can make merry, besides God loves celebrations and merriment.

brocab:
I know it is hard for you to accept bro, but now you are arguing over Word of God, the truth is starring at you, but if you aren't willing, the truth will be hidden from you.
We have all been down this same road, it was the Lord that directed us out from the wolves, If you choose not to believe "The Old Covenant is the Law of Moses. than what can I do? you may believe you are still under the Laws of Moses-but I assure you, Christians are not obligated to keep “the law of Moses.”When Paul discussed “the law,” he was often concerned with the entire law of Moses, and he wrote that Christians were not under the authority of that law.
But if you are seeing the bible written some other way, then let it be, your choice.
Our obligation to obey God is defined by a different law, a spiritual law, which in some cases overlaps Old Testament laws but in other cases supersedes them.
The New Testament is consistent. First, the matter of covenants. They are discussed in detail in the book of {Hebrews 8} There, the High Priesthood of Jesus Christ is contrasted with the Levitical high priesthood.
The ministry Jesus received is far superior to the Levitical ministry, and his covenant is far superior to the old covenant (verse 6).
But there was a problem with the first covenant—the people were not faithful and were not able to obey it fully. (verses 7-9). God therefore promised a new covenant, and “by calling this covenant `new,’ he has made the first one obsolete” (verse 13) The old covenant is obsolete—ended-finished.
The agreement and its terms of relationship no longer have authority.
The writer of Hebrews says that the old covenant “will soon disappear,” and indeed most of its operations ceased in A.D. 70 when Roman armies destroyed the Temple. "But sadly enough Churches today have rebuilt the temple for financial gain."
Even though elements of the old covenant system continue to be observed in Judaism, the New Testament declares that the old covenant itself is obsolete. "Now, we must ask, just what was the old covenant? What laws are we talking about here? First, the core of the old covenant is the Ten Commandments (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13).
As part of the old covenant, the people at Mt. Sinai also agreed to obey all the laws in {Exodus 20, 21, 22 and 23} These additional laws became part of the covenant God made with Israel, and the covenant was then ratified with blood (Exodus 24:6-.
This is the covenant that has been declared obsolete. It has no legal authority. Further, we cannot assume that any part of the contract is valid when the entire contract has been declared obsolete. We cannot assume that any particular group of laws must remain together. The old covenant included much more than {Exodus 20-23}
{Hebrews 9:1} tells us that it also included directions for the tabernacle. Instructions for the altar, Levitical priests and animal sacrifices were given in {Exodus 25-31} These were part of God’s original plan for Israel.
He knew very well that the people would sin and would need a tabernacle and regular burnt offerings. It was all part of the plan, part of his relationship with his people, part of his covenant.
You in the other hand sounds you are trying to reinstate the old covenant law, tithing or burnt offerings doesn't belong to us, and It doesn't matter which way you turn, God have brought believers from all walks of life, to witness the truth, we have all been deceived by the tithing lie.
These wolves of prosperity, are men who have caused disputes and arguments, men of corrupt minds destitute of the truth who suppose that godliness, is their means of financial gain. Jesus said: from such withdraw ourselves. {1 Timothy 6:3-5}
Thanking you for sharing a little history, but tithing is not for us..

It seems you think am arguing with you, but am only trying to make you understand how what I understood from reading the word of God. But it seem you feel you are right and that's all you care about. Since you feel this is an argument well I want to let you know that you've won the argument. Thanks.

It's always the case, when its time to learn the scriptures, you may have learnt something, but you haven't learn it all, arguing you call it,
I call it helping a bro in Christ.
No bro I haven't won, the Word of God wins..
And if you are not open to reason, then at least study the scriptures to find reason and let us know the hidden secrets you have found..

samuelezekiel:


It seems you think am arguing with you, but am only trying to make you understand how what I understood from reading the word of God. But it seem you feel you are right and that's all you care about. Since you feel this is an argument well I want to let you know that you've won the argument. Thanks.

Junia what you call preaching was referencing. Jesus kept the law so we won't have to. The scripture in Mk 10, Jesus actually changed what the law said on divorce after referencing the law. All the epistles reference the law and explain the significance or otherwise, Jesus was not a preacher of the law, a doer, yes, but not a preacher.

ilynem:

Exactly. Jesus condemned the manner it was paid but never said it was wrong to pay it. Two different things.

Did Jesus outrightly condemned sabattat day, but he changed it by working on sabattat day. He resurrected on Sunday, and Apostles recieved holy spirit (Pentecost)on Sunday hence we worship on Sunday. Jesus is a jew, he cannot condemn the Pratice of his people outrightly.

joshnes:
Junia what you call preaching was referencing. Jesus kept the law so we won't have to. The scripture in Mk 10, Jesus actually changed what the law said on divorce after referencing the law. All the epistles reference the law and explain the significance or otherwise, Jesus was not a preacher of the law, a doer, yes, but not a preacher.

You can call it referencing. But i will call it preaching. He preached it to those under the law who thought they could be saved by the law.

BERNIMOORE:
you think you are talking to a reasonable person, No! its not personal but These people have chosen a different way of life, you think he doesnt know what you are talking about? He actually Knew but Hell Bent Determined like those termed by paul as 'superfine' to ''present a lie persistently to such an extent that it will begin to look like a True'' Thats hitler's philosophy pls note that, stop treating people like Gombs as a normal christian No. i have engaged him and joeagbaje and snowwy for 4-5yrs now, even joeagbaje and co are tired because the last time joeagbaje featured on this thread was i think ten pages away, he simply left it for Gombs because they have all ran out of ideas but rather 'they will be making you turn round tables repeating the same thing to get you upset, just keep-up spilling the truth on their faces

Are you kidding, Bernimoore of 2012?

BERNIMOORE:
@Snnowy





Snowwy quote;

If the Lord ordained this, why would Paul even be talking about it in the first place?

It was because of people 'examining him', men like a lot of people today who are against giving to support those that work full-time in the gospel, that was why he supported himself. Paul preferred to boast in the Lord. It did not make it wrong.




MAY I USE THE WORD NOW, THAT YOU 'L I E D' ABOUT PAUL ABOVE (in blue). YOU MANUFACTURED A REASON 'WHY PAUL WAS TALKING ABOUT 'THE QUOTE'.WITHOUT SHOWING ANY BIBLE VERSE IN THE CORINTHIANS TO BUTRESS THAT 'CERTAIN PEOPLE ARE EXAMINING HIM'

IF YOU ARE SURE OF IT THAT IT WAS BECAUSE SOMEONE IS EXAMINING HIM, SHOW US IN THE BIBLE WHO THEY ARE STRAIGHT AWAY. IM WAITING,DONT DODGE THIS IF YOU EVER WANT ANYBODY TO TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY.

Snowwy:


1 Corinthians 9:3
3Mine answer to them that do examine me is this

May be you should study the word before you post. It was in verse 3. I just did not add that scripture.
You are really trying so so hard. Anyway, you do not need to fight me, it is plainly written in scripture.
Who is the 'L I A R' now?
*shake my head*

https://www.nairaland.com/863724/tithes-offerings-first-fruits-apply/11

Come on Bernimoore, you should be better than this by now.

They prefer Malachi to Deuteronomy because Malachi is a more recent revelation than Deuteronomy

2018 is the time to pray for the Church, pray also for those who haven't received the spirit of the Lord, pray for those who haven't yet been called, that one day they will find the truth in Christ.
Pray for our nations, that someday, everybody will turn from their evil ways and worship the only true God-Jesus Christ is Lord.
Pray for our Church that the Lord will help us to seek after the kingdom of God, pray for us-the Lord will give us wisdom and knowledge how to recognise the truth, Pray for those who have been taught the unscripted tithing message, and all the other religious man made gospels..
Pray for the Pastors to give back the tithes {Money} they have stolen from the stranger the poor the needy and the hungry, Pray for the lost in Church and out on the streets, Pray for those who are hungry spiritually and fleshly, Pray for those who are thirsty, poor and in need, that the Lord will give the Christians strength to seek after them, find them, love them, and teach them the Word of God.
Pray for me, and you and everybody, that God will choose each and everyone of us, when He returns, that we will enter into His kingdom and glory forever and forevermore..

This is a great video-for you viewers out there!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf4pXHWwYCM

CecyAdrian:
While reading through the scripture one day, I came across rules and regulations concerning tithe in Deuteronomy , I was shocked because I never knew that the issue of tithe was talked about anywhere else excerpt in Malachi 3:8. Now, when you take a look at Deuteronomy 14 when God was giving the children of Israelite rules and regulations, God explained the concept or reason for tithe to them and gave them rules to abide in regards to it, from verse 22 downwards explains it so well.

Then you also go to Deuteronomy 26:12 downwards, the same rule was also repeated, and an very sure that the reason why God said that we should bring our tithes and offering in Malachi 3: 10 was for the actualization of his rules and regulation in Deuteronomy, which is feeding the Levites, poor, widows and the needy in the society

So, now I ask, why do pastors prefer Malachi even to the extent of twisting it to favour their aims instead of giving their church members the full concept, rules and regulations regarding tithing which the Lord commanded in Deuteronomy.

Don't mind them the pastors & priests collecting tithes are criminals and they will be destroyed when Yahawashi Hamasciach comes back on earth to render heavy damages on them.

ISAIAH 24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.

3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.

4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.

5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

NUMBERS 18:1 And the LORD said unto Aaron, Thou and thy sons and thy father's house with thee shall bear the iniquity of the sanctuary: and thou and thy sons with thee shall bear the iniquity of your priesthood.

2 And thy brethren also of the tribe of Levi, the tribe of thy father, bring thou with thee, that they may be joined unto thee, and minister unto thee: but thou and thy sons with thee shall minister before the tabernacle of witness.

3 And they shall keep thy charge, and the charge of all the tabernacle: only they shall not come nigh the vessels of the sanctuary and the altar, that neither they, nor ye also, die.

4 And they shall be joined unto thee, and keep the charge of the tabernacle of the congregation, for all the service of the tabernacle: and a stranger shall not come nigh unto you.

5 And ye shall keep the charge of the sanctuary, and the charge of the altar: that there be no wrath any more upon the children of Israel.

6 And I, behold, I have taken your brethren the Levites from among the children of Israel: to you they are given as a gift for the LORD, to do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

7 Therefore thou and thy sons with thee shall keep your priest's office for every thing of the altar, and within the vail; and ye shall serve: I have given your priest's office unto you as a service of gift: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death

THE TITHES HAS BEEN CANCELLED PLEASE SEE HEBREWS 7: 11- 22 11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.