Mudley313:

i actually witnessed the same scenario as a kid in benin city at the late benson idahosa's church. it was dec. 32 (new year's eve/watchnight) and this guy actually told everyone to empty out their pockets n if a kobo should mistakenly follow them into the new year they could loss their blessings. everyone started frantically shaking their pockets to make sure no kobo is left. i remember then, the tailor sewing our new years cloths was f.cking up with the time he was supposed to finish em n he promised to finish it b4 new year dat night n we should stop off on our way back from church. my mum actually gave all the tailor's balance payment to the church that night n had to beg to pay it to him later in the year. i remember that night when we were driving home how the streets was filled with people walking home because no transport fare. i wonder how many of those gullible people reaped their so-called blessings that year. i can never forget that year 1987 aka "ninety eighty success stretch". na wah o. i can see the new holy scam artist learnt well from the inovators.

You are very correct, Idahosa introduced scamming into mordern pentecostal christianity in Nigeria. This scam has now grown into a monster and now instituitionalized as doctrine in most pentecostal churches.

Lmao@ December 32.

@ poster. It is none of anybodys bussiness what people give in churches.No pastor will force anyone into giving. the bible is clear
2 Cor. 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
So if any pastor acts inapropriately its still none of anybodys business. leave him alone. A man of God does as he is led of God. the result will speak. carefully read the story bellow

1 Kings 17:11-15
And as she was going to fetch it, he called to her, and said, Bring me, I pray thee, a morsel of bread in thine hand. [12] And she said, As the Lord thy God liveth, I have not a cake, but an handful of meal in a barrel, and a little oil in a cruse: and, behold, I am gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that we may eat it, and die. [13] And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son. [14] For thus saith the Lord God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the Lord sendeth rain upon the earth. [15] And she went and did according to the saying of Elijah: and she, and he, and her house, did eat many days.

people give so that they can prosper ,not so that the pastor can prosper. if you dont like it just close your eyes and move on

@poster, Nothing is wrong if a Pastor is led of God to bless cheques and ask people to give. It is purely scriptural.
2 Cor. 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
so long as he didnt dip hands into anybodys pocket. Financial prosperity comes through giving. A man of God does not prosper by demanding money from people. A prophet may ask people to do some things that dont make sense. but there will be result. Consider the story of Elijah and the poor widow.
1 Kings 17:11-16
And as she was going to fetch it, he called to her, and said, Bring me, I pray thee, a morsel of bread in thine hand. [12] And she said, As the Lord thy God liveth, I have not a cake, but an handful of meal in a barrel, and a little oil in a cruse: and, behold, I am gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that we may eat it, and die. [13] And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son. [14] For thus saith the Lord God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the Lord sendeth rain upon the earth. [15] And she went and did according to the saying of Elijah: and she, and he, and her house, did eat many days. [16] And the barrel of meal wasted not, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the Lord, which he spake by Elijah.
IF you are uncertain if the man is led by God or not, well it not anybodys business, he has his judgement with God.

@joagabje
You are obviously one of those crooks parading themselves as men of God.

This also reminds me of an incidence that happened at Ife in the late 80s when Benson Idahosa came for a crusade on campus. After all the preaching about the blessings that is given to a cheerful giver, he asked everybody to put their hands into their pockets and purses, and bring out all the money they can lay their hands on, for a special blessing. He now told them to raise the money to the heavens, then he started blessing the money. After the blessings he told them not to lower their hands and then instructed the ushers to go around with the offering box. Everybody was told to drop the monies in their hands into the offering box, that the money now belongs to God, and that the money will be replenished by God, 1000 times over. That day, many students that came from town had to walk home.

wirinet:

This also reminds me of an incidence that happened at Ife in the late 80s when Benson Idahosa came for a crusade on campus. After all the preaching about the blessings that is given to a cheerful giver, he asked everybody to put their hands into their pockets and purses, and bring out all the money they can lay their hands on, for a special blessing. He now told them to raise the money to the heavens, then he started blessing the money. After the blessings he told them not to lower their hands and then instructed the ushers to go around with the offering box. Everybody was told to drop the monies in their hands into the offering box, that the money now belongs to God, and that the money will be replenished by God, 1000 times over. That day, many students that came from town had to walk home.

Classic idahosa fraud now being copied and modified in various forms by all sorts of charlatans that call themselves men of God in the penterascal fold.

@kunleoshob , well seem very obvious youre not born again there will be no need to give any response since you may not have the facility in you to understand. But if you ask intelligent question , I will gladly enlighten you.
2 Tim. 2:23
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
but Im not a crook parading as man of God and i dont know why some of you guys have such passionate hatred for men of God in a generation like this where millions are being blessed by them and coming out of darkness to light

@jOAGBAJE

WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO BE BORN AGAIN, IS IT GULLIBILITY OR BAPTISM

Joagbaje:

@kunleoshob , well seem very obvious youre not born again there will be no need to give any response since you may not have the facility in you to understand. But if you ask intelligent question , I will gladly enlighten you.
2 Tim. 2:23
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
but Im not a crook parading as man of God and i dont know why some of you guys have such passionate hatred for men of God in a generation like this where millions are being blessed by them and coming out of darkness to light

I won't argue with you since you have assumed a position of self righteousness but i would live with with these warnings in the bible of false prophets using the religion to extort money from people. If you have any brains you might learn a thing or two.

2 Peter 2:3:
3 In their greed these false teachers will make up clever lies to get hold of your[b] money[/b]. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

Titus 1:11:
11 They must be silenced, because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching. And they do it only for money.

Titus 1:14:
14 They must stop listening to Jewish myths and the commands of people who have turned away from the truth.

@kunleOshob,
Well from what you wrote, it seem you have some level of exposure to the Bible. But i don’t think any true minister of God will use public means to tear the church apart in public eye like youre doing. 1cor 6:1-3.
The scriptures you quted were taken out of context.

Titus 1:11 “Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. [/b]

For you to understand it properly you need to back up a little to vs 10.
[b] Titus 1:10
    For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: [11] Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
You can see that it was talking about jewish leaders  that are mixing Judaism with Christ.
Verse 14 still confirms that.

[b]Titus 1:14
    Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 

There are 2 reasons why giving is important in Gods kingdom.
[b]1. It is Gods nature in us to give
2. We run the ministry by our support
3. We receive only by our giving.

It is satans plan to attack the church by discrediting of ministers and prosperity by attacking giving and making them poor by not giving.Jesus said “ give and it shall be given” When a man of God ask for cheques ,was it for his pocket or for the work of God. Jesus had people that were giving him money to run the work.

Luke 8:2-3
    And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, [3] And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.
Paul had people that sow into the ministry too and into his personal need.

Philip. 4:14-16
   “ Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction. [15] Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only. [16] For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity”, [i][/i]

Pastor has the right to tell people to give for church projects but not for his personal needs. He deals with his needs by his faith and by giving also. But the members have responsibility of taking care of their pastor too even if he doesn’t demend it, they do it for their prosperity. Read vs 17

, 17] “Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. [18] But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God. [19] But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
T
here is giving to God (out love and worship), there is giving to the church project . The church money is not for the pastor. There is giving to the pastor too.

Galatians 6:6-8
    Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. [7] Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. [8] For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.


Matthew 10:41
    He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
If you are not comfortable with how a church is run, focus on your own assignment of you have one not to shame ministry work of those who are busy doing something for God.

@Joagabje
It is evidient that you subscribe to the twisitng of God's word if it can be justified by usingthe the filthy lucre obtained from it for the "work of the gospel". Titus 1:11 was not quoted out of context becos the same principles it is talking about abound today. Are christian leaders not mixing Judaism [ tithes, seed sowing and first fruits] with christianity today for the sake of money If you have read your bible well and it's proper context you would realize that most of the scriptures that teach on christian giving in the bible are directed towards giving towards the poor and the needy and not primarily the church or ministers of God as most preachers wrongly claim. It is very unfortunate that even church offerings that was originally meant for the poor and the needy within the church has now been hijacked by greedy men of God claiming they need it to spread the gospel without adequately taking care of the poor and the needy as instructed in the bible. You might need to learn a thing or two from the examples of apsotle Paul below:

Acts 20:29-30:
29 I know that false teachers, like vicious wolves, will come in among you after I leave, not sparing the flock. 30 Even some men from your own group will rise up and distort the truth in order to draw a following.

Acts 20:33-35:

33 “I have never coveted anyone’s silver or gold or fine clothes. 34 You know that these hands of mine have worked to supply my own needs and even the needs of those who were with me. 35 And I have been a constant example of how you can help those in need by working hard. You should remember the words of the Lord Jesus: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

[our pastors would today would rather receive than give, i wonder if they believe the bible they preach at all]
Whilst there is nothing wrong in giving offerings to assist in the spread of the gospel, there is every thing wrong in a preacher manipulating the congrgation to give to the church. So stop trying to justify what is wrong. Another example paul gave to preachers which they conviniently ignore can be found in :
2 Thessalonians 3:6-9:
6 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we give you this command in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from all believers[a] who live idle lives and don’t follow the tradition they received from us. 7 For you know that you ought to imitate us. We were not idle when we were with you. 8 We never accepted food from anyone without paying for it. We worked hard day and night so we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We certainly had the right to ask you to feed us, but we wanted to give you an example to follow.

@ kunleOshob
youre best described in Heb12:8.  I gave you few scriptures which you completely ignored. well you just proved to everyone your insincerity.
I would have love to expound certain things to you but your display of pride will not allow you to admit where youre wrong, did jesus not recieve money for his work? did Paul not recieve. he even recommended double honour for some
1 Tim. 5:17-18
   Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. [18] For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is
worthy of his reward.

was he refering to poor people here? if Paul worked with his hand in Corinth he did it by choice  because of many KunleOshobs there  and he recieved support in other Churches like Philipians because people like us were  there

The post we are contributing to is talking about a pastor raisng money for church project but you gradually shifted it to glutony etc
You know, ignorance is not lack of knowledge but IGNORING KNOWLEDGE. Investing time to correct you is waste .even if you see the truth arrrogance will not allow you to admitt.
People like you dont have a pastor which means  youve not been well raised or raised at all. all those campus interdenomination gatherings . You grew up as critics in Gods house. youre best described in Heb 12:8. 
People like you cant stay under a Pastor You end up starting a rebellous church which wont last. and finally get to a place you dont go to any church again  claiming CHURCH IS IN THE HEART".or" i HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE CHURCH "ETC
Any sincere person should have understood those scriptures i quoted for you.
Calling  Idahosa thief and Chris Oyakhilome , and others names. because you secretely admire them  and wish you have what they have.Poor people criticise successful people. But if the poor man listen to successful  pwople ,he will soon be rich.

@joagbaje
Evidently you are a pastor who induldges in the twisting of God's word for the sake of filthy lucre and your livelyhood probably depends on this scam thus you constantly search the bible to find scriptures you can twist to support your craft so you can sleep soundly at night. My only advice to you is that you repent from your evil ways re-dedicate your life to christ and stop scamming the flock in the name of God. It is a very grevious sin to use the name of God to extort money from innocent people. the so called church projects these pastors claim to be raising money for, is it God that sent them or they are trying to build empires for themsleves like your criminally motivate idols oyakhilome and the demon that as gone to be with the devil Idahosa who contributed a lot to the destruction of genuine christianity in Nigeria. Jesus clearly stated how you can give to him in matthew 25:31-40. How many of you crooks emphasize giving to God through that means in your churches? Yes i don't have a pastor and i don't need one since i have my bible and i can read the inherent truths myself without a manipulator like you to twist it for me. Also the heresy you stated, where deed christ ever receive money for work done that is even is you can compare christ to these deluded heretics that claim to be men of God today.

Lastly for point of emphasis i detest oyakhilome, Idahosa and other criminals who claim to be men of God but deny him by their actions by continously and routinely fleecing the flock in their care and i would rather not be rich than distort the word of God to reap people off and make money. The gospel my lord and saviour Jesus christ preached was that of a heaveny kingdom and heavenly rewards not the earthly ones you and other greedy propesrity preachers are twisting the scriptures to say. A word is enough for the wise, you seriously need to repent. i live you with the scriptures below if your heart is not too hardened by the devil you might leard a thin or two from it.

1 Timothy 6:5-11:
5 These people always cause trouble. Their minds are corrupt, and they have turned their backs on the truth. To them, a show of godliness is just a way to become wealthy.
6 Yet true godliness with contentment is itself great wealth. 7 After all, we brought nothing with us when we came into the world, and we can’t take anything with us when we leave it. 8 So if we have enough food and clothing, let us be content.

9 But people who long to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows.
11 But you, Timothy, are a man of God; so run from all these evil things. Pursue righteousness and a godly life, along with faith, love, perseverance, and gentleness.

Men some pages in my Bible must be missing?
DID JESUS RECIEVE ANY MONEY FOR HIS WORK? CHAI you people seff

@tbaba83
Men some pages in my Bible must be missing?
DID JESUS RECIEVE ANY MONEY FOR HIS WORK? CHAI you people seff

I didnt mean jesus recieve salary for healing the sick. but that he received supports for the work of ministry.
The missing page of your bible is the book of luke.
Luke 8:3
   ,  And  Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.
or where did you think Judas got the money from by which he was helping himself with?. Jesus had solid and heavy partners that were signing cheques for him! ( come on now!) so tey   some KunleOchops called him crook.
John 7:12b (amplified)
, "some said he's a wonderful man while (KunleOshob and co) others said "No, he's duping the public

@tbaba83
Sorry , living bible translation for john 7:12 not amplified bible as stated above

While the world economy is experiencing meltdown and bearish, church economy is highly fruitful and bullish! I love these men of God god!

@Joagabje
Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand.

Repent of what?, Im a partner with TBN,Crefflo Dollar, Chris Oyakhilome and benny Hinn, and im stupendously blessed. i am a giver and I look for opportunity to sow. why should i repent of my giving. You guys eat you tithe , you dont give , you look for scriptures to justify your greed and covetousness.You are chasing money , but money is chasing me.
Economy melt down is not a new thing , it is a period of wealth transfer for we the givers its comes from time to time even in the bible days. But we have been blessed by the mesages of Men of God who warned us ahead of time about this crisis. for your information it will last for seven years!. I have a pastor over me unlike you guys and i will continue to sign BIG FAT CHEQUES for men of God. By the time MELTDOWN show you finish you will believe in giving.
2 Chron. 20:20 b
, believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.

Joagbaje:

Repent of what?, Im a partner with TBN,Crefflo Dollar, Chris Oyakhilome and benny Hinn, and im stupendously blessed. i am a giver and I look for opportunity to sow. why should i repent of my giving. You guys eat you tithe , you dont give , you look for scriptures to justify your greed and covetousness.You are chasing money , but money is chasing me.
Economy melt down is not a new thing , it is a period of wealth transfer for we the givers its comes from time to time even in the bible days. But we have been blessed by the mesages of Men of God who warned us ahead of time about this crisis. for your information it will last for seven years!. I have a pastor over me unlike you guys and i will continue to sign BIG FAT CHEQUES for men of God. By the time MELTDOWN show you finish you will believe in giving.
2 Chron. 20:20 b
, believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.

Evidently you have some of the most notorious scammers parading themselves as men of God as your so called partners if they are indeed your partners that you give to. Cos i am almost certain that you are a receiver and not a giver. I suspect you are one of those criminally motivated greedy pastors who depend on twisting God's word for a living.[a previous post gave you away]. When it comes to blessings i am also certain that there is absolutely no way you can be half as blessed as some of us who have decided to speak the truths of God's word without the love off filthy lucre. As per believing his prophets i do believe his true prophets but not crooks like the agaents of satan you listed above who are your mentors and are training you in evil deeds. As i said earlier you seriously need to repent, a word is enough for the wise.

UKGC or whatever they are called these days, they pry on single mothers, illegal immigrant etc. they have branches in north london, u will find d members @ big supermarkets i.e morrison, tesco singing xmas songs n asking u to contribute in these bloody cold whether, one of the pastors drives a bently and lives in a million pound hse, y d heck is he drving a bently, all they (pastors) sem to do these days i line their pockets, d church i use to attend in north london, when i suggested we set up a trust fund and help people whenevr they need finaicial help plus ask wealthy members to donate food or new clothes to a couple of our members that were refugee or asylum seekers (asylum seekers get about £35 a wk) the pastor was dead against, he said they were bogus and were economic migrants, the church i attend presently, we all help out with jobs, food and new clothes, i love my new church, its predominantly white, i have one of our female members living with me cos she's a failed asylum seeker, christianity is about helping out the needy not buying private jets or buying properties in miami

@kunleOshob
when i say im a partner to a man of God. i mean I partner with them by sowing finacially ,I didnt say they are my partner in bussiness.Well im not surprise you are not used to such language because you dont give. Anyway anybody can be a partner to any ministry by giving. TBN is not a person it is a tv ministry. You can start your partnership through them and see how your finances move up.

thameamead:

UKGC or whatever they are called these days, they pry on single mothers, illegal immigrant etc. they have branches in north london, u will find d members @ big supermarkets i.e morrison, tesco singing xmas songs n asking u to contribute in these bloody cold whether, one of the pastors drives a bently and lives in a million pound hse, y d heck is he drving a bently, all they (pastors) sem to do these days i line their pockets, d church i use to attend in north london, when i suggested we set up a trust fund and help people whenevr they need finaicial help plus ask wealthy members to donate food or new clothes to a couple of our members that were refugee or asylum seekers (asylum seekers get about £35 a wk) the pastor was dead against, he said they were bogus and were economic migrants, the church i attend presently, we all help out with jobs, food and new clothes, i love my new church, its predominantly white, i have one of our female members living with me cos she's a failed asylum seeker, christianity is about helping out the needy not buying private jets or buying properties in miami

May God bless you for the testimony you gave above and may he reward his works you are doing in your new church in Jesus name.

_{PS: I hope the charlatans defending pastors fleecing their flock can read and learn from the christ inspired example above.}

Amen, thanks Bro,

Joagbaje:

@kunleOshob
when i say im a partner to a man of God. i mean I partner with them by sowing finacially ,I didnt say they are my partner in bussiness.Well im not surprise you are not used to such language because you dont give. Anyway anybody can be a partner to any ministry by giving. TBN is not a person it is a tv ministry. You can start your partnership through them and see how your finances move up.

I fully understand what is meant by partnership in the pentescostal movement. It is basically a term used to delude people like your self to believe that you are actally participating in God's work whilst what you are actually doing is giving to expand the business coast of a vermin who claims to be doing God's work. It is basically a one way partnership that has the mugun giving and the pastor receiving whilst claiming that God would replenship you a thousand fold. This practise is highly un-scriptural but then again i know you guys are skilled in the art of twisting scriptures to suit your excesses. If you truly want to partner in God's work, then carry out his instructions has Jesus explicitly directed in matthew 25:31-40 and not the way these charlatans have twisted it to be.

@Joagbaje
we want the so -called pastors to help build schools not private schools, schools for the poor, hospitals for the poor, food for the poor not private jet or holy night on a cruise ship sailing from florida to miami to the antigua, we need MRI scans in nigerian hospitals,

thameamead:


[size=26pt]@Joagbaje
we want the so -called pastors to help build schools not private schools, schools for the poor, hospitals for the poor, food for the poor not private jet or holy night on a cruise ship sailing from florida to miami to the antigua, we need MRI scans in nigerian hospitals,[/size]

Abeg help me tell am o, he should also extend the message to his so called partners that, that is what God's money [church collections] is meant for and not enriching themselves in the false claim that God is the one blessing them after they have finished fleecing the flock.

@KunleOshob and co
if you claim that financial partnership is unscriptural its unfortunate. people who always advocate for the poor are the real crooks because they have hidden agenda. Deny scriptures and focus only on the twisted ones that you dont even understand.
In the OT every man had a specific amount apart from the tithe they bring to Gods house, they all give money to support the work and maitainance in the temple and also for repairs and service. i wont borther to give you scriptures because you will not read it as usual . But people that ignore truth like you guys always have something up in your sleves. there are different kinds of givings in the bible. every church has their different outreaches to the poor . every  one of us give to poor. why are you offended that we give to a man of God. is it not my money. and most importanltly the primary way to help the poor is through teaching and also for the poor to give. Elijah made the widow give her last. If Arch bishop Idahosa made people give their last kobo it is based on the same principle i believe. It is carnal for you guys to think Idahosa made people do it so he could posses their money because you feel he has same greedy tendency like you. church money does not belong to the pastor to eat. He will die before his time, and if that happens it is between him and God. im still bessed anyhow even if e chop my money
everybody must give. thats why the poor widow had to give even her last mite and jesus commended her. but it is crooks that attacks others for giving in church and giving to pastors. how can you say partnership is unscriptural. people that get angry at giving are crooks and covetous people because . Remember what happened between jesus and KunleOshob, sorry i meant Judas. when the woman poured designer perfume on Jesus feet
John 12:5-7
   Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? [6] This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein. [7] Then said Jesus, Let her alone,
SO LET US ALONE! WE ARE NOT COMPLAINING.

Joagbaje
Obviously you have sold your soul to these agents of the devil parading themselves as men of God, I live you to your delusions but don't say you weren't warned.

So if the bible says give and it shall be given unto you, and I decide to support somebody's television ministry, am I being robbed?
I'm beginning to think that in these matters, it is best to leave to each his/her own. The person that wants to hear will hear and vice versa. And I am a firm believer that God will judge every man according to their intentions because He is merciful.