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Demographics Of Kogi State by Probz(m): 12:08am On Mar 09, 2017 |
Kogi State probably stands out more than any other Nigerian state in its own unique way. I know it borders 9 states (10 including Abuja/F.C. territory), represents the main kind of ethnic groups in the whole of Nigeria (the northern/Hausa-inclined, Yoruba and Igbo + the likes of Idoma) and that the main three tribes are Igala, Okun (a Yoruba subgroup) and Igbira/Ebira. Anyone know if the case of Okun is similar to Ika/Ukwuani/Ikwerre (mere subgroups of an overarching tribe who have dissociated and don’t see themselves as Yoruba or Igbo) and what’s the case of Igala people speaking Yoruba in addition to their Yoruboid language, etc.? |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by zykson(m): 12:39am On Mar 09, 2017 |
Am from Kogi and an Okun person... We're 100% Yorubas 13 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by Probz(m): 12:48am On Mar 09, 2017 |
zykson:Fair-enough. And what about Aworos? Subgroup of Okun? 1 Like |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by zykson(m): 1:17am On Mar 09, 2017 |
Probz:'Oworos'? They ain't really Okuns they just speak a language similar to Yorubas and are in the western part of the state alongside Okuns. 3 Likes |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by 9jakool: 2:26am On Mar 09, 2017 |
zykson:I thought they identify as Okun. 1 Like |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by Nobody: 2:35am On Mar 09, 2017 |
Idomas are igbos? |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by Probz(m): 2:42am On Mar 09, 2017 |
Ersan:Is that what I said? 1 Like |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by 9jakool: 2:47am On Mar 09, 2017 |
Probz: Yes I see where you are coming from. The name "Okun" comes from the way Yoruba groups in Kogi greet each other. Okun is an umbrella term term for Yagba, Bunu, Owe, Ijumu, and Oworo people and yes they are Yoruba through the dialect continuum and the shared origin/mythology. As for a comparison with Ika/Ukwani/Ikwerre, I can only think of the Itsekiri. Although their dialect is similar to the Ilaje and Ikale dialects of Ondo state, they've maintained their distinction from Yoruba people. Some of their culture bear resemblance to Bini due to proximity/history similarly to Ika and others. Yes Igala people are distinct, even though there are similarities between the two languages. 5 Likes |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by Probz(m): 2:56am On Mar 09, 2017 |
9jakool: That's right. How mutually intelligible are Igala and Yoruba languages? |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by 9jakool: 2:59am On Mar 09, 2017 |
Probz:I have spoken to a few Igala before. I don't know the exact percentage or if it varies by different Yoruba groups. I can understand about a third of an Igala speech if I listen carefully enough. 2 Likes |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by seunny4lif(m): 3:29am On Mar 09, 2017 |
Educative |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by Nobody: 3:36am On Mar 09, 2017 |
Probz: No need to come at me like that. Im just curious. Whats the connection? |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by Probz(m): 3:44am On Mar 09, 2017 |
Ersan:Some Enugu communities border with Idoma and have a little Idoma and Igala mix up and dialect (Enu-ugwu-Ezike/Nsukka peeps) but that's as far as it goes. They're their own tribe. |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by Nobody: 3:46am On Mar 09, 2017 |
Probz: Good to know. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by 9jakool: 3:50am On Mar 09, 2017 |
Probz:Ok this is starting to seem educational. I have a question about the Ika, Anioma, Ikwerre, and ukwani people? Are they Igbo (honest question) and is there a level of mutual ineligible with Southeastern Igbo? 1 Like |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by Probz(m): 3:59am On Mar 09, 2017 |
9jakool: The Anioma-Igbo relations have already been discussed to death on one of my threads. Check it out - https://www.nairaland.com/3539543/delta-rivers-igbos Anioma's just a blanket political term for not just Ukwuanis and Ikas but also Enuanis (Asaba/Igbuzo/Ogwashu-Ukwu environs). The latter are indisputably Igbo and the dialect of Igbo they speak (Enuani) is just like general Onicha Igbo. Ikas and Ukwuanis speak Igboid languages but their culture and dialect's mixed with Bini and so they're still trying to figure out whether they're Igbo, Edo or just plain Delta. I wasn't sure myself until very recently but most people see them as Igbo. The Edo intonation they speak with is what makes their languages sound foreign. Ikwerres are definitely Igbo and I know for sure that most Rivers Igbo dialects generally are just like the ones you'll hear anywhere in Imo state, only a-little heavier. In global terms (if you’re conversant-enough with the U.K.) general Imo lects would be akin to the Garston/Grassendale/Kensington slices of Liverpool, whereas Rivers-Igbo lects (inc. Ikwerre) would be more-like Hale, Tarbock Village, Hough Green and Netherley. One’s an idyllically-refined/correspondingly-coarse version of Scouse. The other’s got a more nichely-deep tone to it that naturally places it closer to the peripheral outliers but they’re still barking up approximately the same udala/agbalumo tree. The latter aren’t-quite Eastern wools but-then they kinda are. 1 Like |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by YourNemesis: 11:43pm On Mar 09, 2017 |
Probz: Igala is like an old Yoruba substrate speech that has received lots of infusions from "strange" (so to speak) languages from Jukun to Idoma to Igbo (In the southern extremities like Ibaji. With all these additions, it has somewhat morphed into something else. some consonants seem to have also mutatedd in Igala and deviated from what seem their original form. i.e R to L, J to BI, N to L For example Eje (Seven) = Ebie Aja (Dog) = Abia Ori (Head) = Oji Ale {Night) = Ane Enu, Arun (Mouth) = Elu/Alu Akere (Frog) = Akele Orun (Sun) = Olu E.tc Yoruba and Igala languages are like/akin to Igbo and Ekpeye (I hope I am right) Short speeches are more understandable to speakers of both than longer discussions. I.e I am Hungry Yoruba: Ebi n kpa mi Igala: Ebi a kpa mi Come and let's catch Fish: Yoruba: Wa ka kpa Eja Igala: Wa ka kpa Eja Let us bring / pull ourselves together, and stay together. Igala: Je kafola wa mola, kajo kpai ola wa Yoruba: Je Kafara wa mora, kajo kpelu ara wa God, Give/bring me a child Olorun, Gb'omo fun mi Ojo, Gb'oma du mi Listen to me, I am eating three black Bananas (unripe) with yams tomorrow. T'eti gbo mi, Maa je ogede dudu meta kpelu Isu ni ola N'eti gbo mi, Naa je ogede dudu meta kpai utsu ni ona. Give the watch onyour hand to me Mu ago owo e fun mi Mu ago owo e du mi Overall, I can get the general "hint" of what an igala person is saying, but nothing concrete. 4 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by bigfrancis21: 6:36am On Mar 10, 2017 |
YourNemesis: Ya even their accent too sounds Yoruboid. I don't speak nor understand Yoruba but I've heard Igala being spoken severally and it just sounded like Yoruba to me. Wa ka kpa eja Interestingly, the same statement in Igbo would be: Bia ka anyi kpata azu (come let us catch fish, word for word). 1 Like |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by YourNemesis: 6:53am On Mar 10, 2017 |
bigfrancis21: Interesting. If you were asked to discuss how all these Nigerian (Southern) languages originated without choosing an Igbo centric model (Because I know you ).... How would you say them all came about? I think they all originated in Central Nigeria and bifurcated into three branches, Yoruboid, Edoid and Igboid. Ibibio has links to Cameroon which is like the school next door, while Ijaw is that weird orphan child that no one in the classroom understands. 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by bigfrancis21: 7:09am On Mar 10, 2017 |
YourNemesis: Ya I agree with you except that Igboid diversion would probably be the earliest or first given the complexity of Igbo compared to the more easier Yoruba. Igbo and Yoruba are definitely related. I also see the usage of 'o' in both languages as pronouns. For example, he/she has come in Igbo would be 'o biala', which would be similar in Yoruba too. O na-abia - he/she is coming. Please give us some examples of similar usages in Yoruba starting with the 'o' pronoun. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by YourNemesis: 7:13am On Mar 10, 2017 |
bigfrancis21: Yoruba: O n bo - He/she/It is coming 1 Like |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by 9jakool: 8:44am On Mar 10, 2017 |
bigfrancis21:Yeah a lot of words are related. I learned that the word for mud "potopoto" is the same in both languages with the soft p renunciation in Igbo. Okuko is Igbo word for chicken and it's also very similar to Akuko in Yoruba, but in Yoruba it's rooster. There is also this pattern that I have noticed in some of the verbs. English Igbo Yoruba To lay eggs yie ye To cook sie se I've noticed similarities between Ebira and Yoruba as well, some words are exactly the same. This is no surprise because Igbo, Ebira, Igala, Gbagyi, Edo, Nupe, Idoma and Yoruba are all part of the Volta-Niger branch so many of the features are similar. I think your theory is very interesting about the complex phonology and the early divergence of Igbo. If I'm not mistaken, there are 34 letters (8 vowels, 27 consonants) in Igbo but standard Yoruba has 25 letters. Standard Yoruba is based off the Western dialects, especially that of Oyo, but Eastern and Central dialects of Yoruba tend to have more complex phonology and letters. They tend to preserve more of the proto-Yoruba or Proto-YEAI phonology/features. Central Yoruba and Eastern Yoruba dialects have 9 vowels and many letters that aren't found in Standard Yoruba such as gw and gh. On the contrary many western Yoruba dialects have the ch sound, which is absent in Standard Yoruba. Any Yoruba dialect could have more or less between 25 to 31 letters. Even though Yoruba is pretty much mutually intelligible, the disparity in complex phonology is one of the factor that affects mutual intelligibility in the continum. For example, an Akure person can understand an Ijesha dialect better than an Ondo dialect. Anyway, it seems like the further East you go, the more complex the phonology gets which does play into that theory that the languages diverged in an area near the Niger-Benue confluence. 2 Likes |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by Probz(m): 10:00am On Mar 10, 2017 |
YourNemesis:Interesting. I agree with your likening of Igala to Yoruba as Ekpeye is to Igbo. As an outsider I can only go by intonation but that alone sounds very Yoruba-like. What do you think about words being shared in Igbo and Yoruba through Igala? Igala's sometimes seen as a bridging point between the two languages even though the language is Yoruboid. 2 Likes |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by laudate: 3:14pm On Mar 10, 2017 |
Probz: Igala people speak Yoruba?? You have started with this your language-fishing expeditions, again. Last time, you were on a thread claiming that Ika people are Igbo or something. The argument about the Igbo, Igboiid and Edo origins of the Ika, has not yet been settled on that thread. The dust you generated there, is still rising even as we speak. Now you have started with this your 'Igala vs Yoruba/Yoruboid languages' theory...may God deliver you from causing confusion. 2 Likes |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by laudate: 3:29pm On Mar 10, 2017 |
I am waiting for the Igala indigenes to enter this thread. It is interesting to see that it is an Igbo person that has decided that Igala sounds Yoruba or Yoruboid. Hehehe....!! 2 Likes |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by bigfrancis21: 4:44pm On Mar 10, 2017 |
YourNemesis: Na correct To think that both groups fight on nairaland everyday when there are similarities between both. It's interesting to find that Yoruba has two words for 'come', 'bo' and 'wa' am I correct? How are both words used in sentences? Igbo has just one 'bia' regardless of speech type. |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by bigfrancis21: 4:54pm On Mar 10, 2017 |
laudate: Ocho okwu...only enters a thread to incite troubles. Yes, Igala definitely sounds Yoruboid when spoken....now do your worst. 3 Likes |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by bigfrancis21: 4:58pm On Mar 10, 2017 |
9jakool: I've always concurred with this. This is an area that further linguistic studies need to be performed on. Standard Igbo has 36 letters of the alphabet and this is only for 'light' dialects like Onitsha, Enuani etc. Complex Igbo dialects like Ngwa, Ikwerre, Abiriba etc. have way more letters in their speech form, for example 'wh' (owho/ofo), 'nh' (inhe/ife) etc.) that could be up to 40 or 45 as the case may be. 1 Like |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by YourNemesis: 5:03pm On Mar 10, 2017 |
bigfrancis21: Wa is Present: (Come) Come here (Wa ni ibi) Bo is present continuous: (Coming) I am coming (Mo n bo) 2 Likes |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by laudate: 5:23pm On Mar 10, 2017 |
bigfrancis21: Which worst? Did anyone say that I am like you? You guys are the ones that spark fire and brimstone over ethnic issues. It is only trouble makers like you, that like to decide what ethnicity a person should bear, and also go out of their way to determine what language sounds like the next, even when they cannot speak the languages in question. Like I said, I am waiting for the Igala indigenes to come in here. Stop deciding for them, whether their language sounds Yoruba, Yoruboid or whatever. |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by bigfrancis21: 5:37pm On Mar 10, 2017 |
laudate: Exactly, you are doing the same thing I mentioned earlier by inciting unnecessary troubles here. Sound like something is NOT the same as TO BE something. That Igala sounds like Yoruba does NOT mean it IS Yoruba. Of course, it is common knowledge that Igalas do not want to be called Yorubas and nobody is saying nor implying that here. It is often Yorubas that I see trying to claim Igalas. Therefore sounding like Yoruba does not mean it is Yoruba. Sometimes I wonder the level of English apprehension of many of our so-called graduates. 3 Likes |
Re: Demographics Of Kogi State by bigfrancis21: 5:40pm On Mar 10, 2017 |
YourNemesis: Ok, in Igbo it is just one word regardless. Come here (Wa ni ibi) Yoruba Come here (Bia ebe a) Igbo (Bia n'ebe a) Igbo |
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