let us first put things into perspective, let us first see just what our place is in this humongous cosmos that almost certainly is indifferent to our existence, equally as malicious and treacherous to everything.

Just a few million kilometers away, if you were some sort of being on the moon or just an astronaut sent to the moon looking at the earth rise just as the sun would rise on the earth.

you would be looking at the earth that would be no more than a bright blue sphere with a pinch of white and brown but mostly dominated by a loud hue of blue.

the earth is basically like a blue marble lighting up the skyless moon world, no vegetation can be seen, no huge monuments made by humans are visible from such not too shouty distance judging from a cosmic perspective, our airplanes and pyramids, huge skyscrapers and shinning golden temples.

there is not the slightest indication that the earth is inhabited, just seems like another planet in the solar system with little or no events of any importance, it floats just like a typical planet with little or nothing to show, you would be totally lost to the bustling activities that lurk just on the skin of this blue world.

Approach the earth a little closer, a few thousand kilometers just like the distance of the international space station, now you can see the rivers and seas, you can now make out intricate patterns of canals and canyons, green patches of vegetation and the biggest of the man made structures all like an intrinsic feature in such a humble painting.

From this distance you can make out the biggest human made structures but still no sign of humans, you cannot see them walking in the street or out in the open field.

what does this mean?

The answer is obvious to us; we are very tiny creatures, we are to the earth like tiny microbes pitching on the skin of a stone we overturn from the ground, dirty and moist.

we are nothing more than microbes on the earth when you visualize the earth from the outside.

To an outside observer it is almost like we are not here.

Now just imagine the earth from a cosmic perspective, we are hosted by an average star that is insanely humongous compared to the size of the earth but this sun is just a mediocre star in our local neighborhood of stars and galactic neighbors.

Together with billions of other stars, our sun is part of a galaxy. visualizing the sun from a galactic point of view it is less than a spec of dust lost in a vast sea of sands.

This our galaxy is just one out of more than 500billion with the promise of double that size being the reality.

A tiny spec lost in a vast cosmos dancing to a tune played by an uncharted gravity that draws a cold doom near with every breath.

I explained all this to add a perspective to the points that i am about to make, we are a young specie, lost and minuscule in a universe that is far too deeper and bigger than our imagination can ever conceive, with our time no more than a cosmic blink.

we exist almost like we don't.

The universe doesn't go around for us, doesn't even seem that the universe has the slightest inclination that we are here.

Now let me quickly bring up a definition of God from a theistic point of view which is the sole nucleus of my argument.

God is an all powerful, all knowing and eternal being that is beyond time, literally caused the universe from pure nothingness and then largely interfere with humans

it all sounds all right and cozy from a human perspective but look at it from a cosmic landscape; this very definition and characteristics of God as stretched in very many vivid descriptions, confident and daring tendered by many religions ridicules the very idea of a God that is All powerful, all knowing and all perfect.

We can at least try and imagine just how huge, ominous, deep, spooky, intricate and powerful this universe is, there is a lingering possibility that it may just be one out of many.

A being capable of making something like this literally out of nothing must be just as ominous, deep, spooky, intricate and powerful or even more than the universe.

imagine, just let your mind roam free on what outstandingly weirdly powerful entity such a being would be.

We are humans, fleeting and young, vane and puny, we are subject to emotions that reveal the depth of our vulnerability; anger, hate, sadness, joy, love, affection, envy, jealousy and many of them.

May we not forget that we are basically no more than atoms in a cosmos so vast that even our imagination cannot grasp it.

Now here comes the creator, in all his power and weirdness, all that perfection and timeless aura, comes to the universe, goes to a vast corner where a local cluster seats, pin points the vigo super cluster, goes to a remote galactic corner and locates a lone spiral galaxy gleaming like a lost pearl in a sea of darkness, enters this galaxy, locates a tiny part of this galaxy where countless stars reside, pin points an average sun out of many, comes to the local solar neighborhood and comes to the tiny blue world, there is a specie of beings so tiny and fleeting, microbes living on the skin of this blue world, then this all powerful creator of the cosmos comes to this world where these very tiny creatures are then starts to help them kill each other.

That is what theism would have us believe.

I'd say that is tremendously absurd!!

theism proposes a creator for the cosmos, a seeming answer to the question of causality, all perfect, glorious, timeless and ancient, deep and all knowing, boundless power that passes the borders of infinity then goes right ahead and ridicule it.

Theism paints a picture so petty and vane, a God that is no more than a human.

here is an all powerful and knowing entity that is still subjected to emotions that reveals the crudity of our vulnerability, anger and hate, this entity that made everything can get jealous, struggles and indulges in human feuds.

If you are an all powerful creator of everything, of whom exactly are you going to be jealous of?

but here we have a God that allegedly created everything still subject to jealousy, hate and anger - such mundane characteristics paints a childish picture, an unparalleled pettiness.

The All powerful creator is so engrossed in human activities that it is busy fighting alongside humans, picking favorite humans, helping them kill each other, snoops around to see what these microbial entities are up to, gets angry when they masturbate.

needs praises and worship, even ready torture for it.

it is mind bugling how theism by itself reduced the God of its own very making into such a mundane, petty, puerile and puny concept, God is so vane that it bears a mark unbecoming of such a powerful cause for the cosmos.


The very idea of such a powerful entity being subject to emotions as anger, jealousy, sadness and a raging need for reverence and love brings God down to similar emotional vulnerability as humans.

Therefore such an entity cannot be said to be all powerful or all knowing, cannot be said to be perfect or stable.

An all powerful and perfect being would need nothing, perfection needs nothing because perfection is in fact beyond infinity. A circle is perfect at 360°, you cannot add 1° to stand if you remove 1° it ceases to be a circle.

that is the closest we can get in explaining perfection.

so what exactly does an all powerful God need anything for, what use is your sacrifice and supplications? If God is perfect and all powerful it means it cannot need anything, if this is so then your prayers, reverence, sacrifices, worship and undying piety is just as useless as the hair of a human in the dark.

For God to have a want, a need or demand be it in form or reverence, acknowledgment or worship rids it of any attribute of perfection or omnistatus.

It is a paradox to assert a God that is perfect and all powerful but still needs or demands anything - such a paradox only annihilates the subject therefore such a god cannot exist.

- either God is all powerful, perfect and needs nothing.

-or it is not all powerful or perfect and needs something.

Theism ridicules and demeans the very idea of God they conceive, it scales down the whole universe to a tiny point so shallow as the mind of the primitive humans that birthed Gods to explain it.

If there is an all powerful and all knowing creator of the cosmos, then theism with its ideas of what this entity is and should be would be an insult to it.

we are faced with the problem of universal causality, the very effects we witness all point to a single point of origin and this very lingering question thrills our minds to a quaking point, having to deal with more questions than we have answers to.

but i'd rather admit ignorance than resort to any preposterous answer with a comforting glamor.

In all this questions and ingrained bother, with the answers theism has provided in the person of God. speaking from a point of view beyond earth as the point of consideration; a cosmic perspective - i dare say and affirm.

Your God is simply too small and petty for this cosmos.

Very enlightening writeup. Myopic minded people will soon come for you.

Bestinstinct:
Very enlightening writeup. Myopic minded people will soon come for you.

it is not new actually, i am used to it therefore ready to defend my argument

Couldn't have said it better.
You've won yourself a fan.

@ the Op,

Simple question for you

Please
What are the ideal attributes of an "all powerful God"?

Because it seems you know all the dos and donts of an "all powerful"....

Please what are the ideals?

felixomor:
@ the Op,

Simple question for you

Please
What are the ideal attributes of an "all powerful God"?

Because it seems you know all the dos and donts of an "all powerful"....

Please what are the ideals?

Definition of a concept reveal the attributes there in, this question was sorely answered on the post unless you didnt read it all if you did then do it again this time slowly.

for example when someone say circle, there is nothing else to think but a 360°, anything more or less cannot be said to be a circle

johnydon22:


Definition of a concept reveal the attributes there in, this question was sorely answered on the post unless you didnt read it all if you did then do it again this time slowly.

for example when someone say circle, there is nothing else to think but a 360°, anything more or less cannot be said to be a circle

Using your example of a circle,
What if your concept of limiting a circle to 360 degrees is wrong in the first place?
Will that make you right?

felixomor:


Using your example of a circle,
What if your concept of limiting a circle to 360 degrees is wrong in the first place?
Will that make you right?

LOL here we go with a non sequitur. try another argument because this is not only nonsensical but is non sequitur to the arguments raised.

johnydon22:
LOL here we go with a non sequitur. try another argument because this is not only nonsensical but is non sequitur to the arguments raised.

I can see u r trapped

Your post can be summarized as the little boy (of course whose brain is still in developmental stage) who became petulant because his rich father didnt buy him a car.

He asks his father,
"Can you buy me a car"?
His father says "i can"!
Then he says "ok, buy it for me"
His father says "I wont"

Then the boy throws a tantrum
And says "father, just say you cant"

Does this change the fact that his rich father can buy him the car?
Of course not.

That is how you sound.
Like that little boy.
Saying God is not "all powerful" when you a mere mortal doesnt even have the mind of an "all powerful"....

May your eyes be opened.

felixomor:
@ the Op,

Simple question for you

Please
What are the ideal attributes of an "all powerful God"?

Because it seems you know all the dos and donts of an "all powerful"....

Please what are the ideals?

you no dey read before you comment

stephenmorris:
you no dey read before you comment

Pls ask yourself that question,
If u Answer,
Then u will not mention me....

felixomor:


I can see u r trapped

hahaha here comes the clowning about, deluding yourself to make yourself feel good. make an unrelated remark and then troll yourself with it, you really need to grow up and learn how to make reasonable arguments.

Your post can be summarized as the little boy (of course whose brain is still in developmental stage) who became petulant because his rich father didnt buy him a car.

He asks his father,
"Can you buy me a car"?
His father says "i can"!
Then he says "ok, buy it for me"
His father says "I wont"

Then the boy throws a tantrum
And says "father, just say you cant"

Does this change the fact that his rich father can buy him the car?
Of course not.

That is how you sound.
Like that little boy.
Saying God is not "all powerful" when you a mere mortal doesnt even have the mind of an "all powerful"....

May your eyes be opened.

You basically have no argument, read the post again - this time very slowly. it is either you didnt or you have impaired comprehension...

stephenmorris:
you no dey read before you comment

It baffles me my brother, it is remarkable how people can be making posts so confidently in blatant blindness that you begin to wonder..

johnydon22:
hahaha here comes the clowning about, deluding yourself to make yourself feel good. make an unrelated remark and then troll yourself with it, you really need to grow up and learn how to make reasonable arguments.



You basically have no argument, read the post again - this time very slowly. it is either you didnt or you have impaired comprehension...

Somewhere in your mind, throwing a question u couldn't answer means i have not read your post.
Mscheww, SMH
If only i had said, u made sense,
Then u will know i read it ba?.....

I have read your post.
As i said, u r like the petulant little child of that rich father.....
Nothing more....

Johnnydon22, na Dr Felix you dae follow yarn?

Hahahahahahaha.

You miss road oooo

felixomor:


Somewhere in your mind, throwing a question u couldn't answer means i have not read your post.
Mscheww, SMH
If only i had said, u made sense,
Then u will know i read it ba?.....

I have read your post.
As i said, u r like the petulant little child of that rich father.....
Nothing more....

Provide a link to post(s) of any NL ATHEIST that made sense in ya sight

adepeter26:

Provide a link to post(s) of any NL ATHEIST that made sense in ya sight

Search for HardMirror's thread on aliens and other stuff....
I cant remember the full topic....

felixomor:


Somewhere in your mind, throwing a question u couldn't answer means i have not read your post.
Mscheww, SMH
If only i had said, u made sense,
Then u will know i read it ba?.....

I have read your post.
As i said, u r like the petulant little child of that rich father.....
Nothing more....

Then it maybe blamed of impaired comprehension, the post was simple as it was written in simple language. You didnt ask a question that could not be answered, as a matter of fact it is not only answerable but primary but doesn't remove the fact that it was non-sequitur to the arguments on the post which shows either you didnt read the post or you couldn't comprehend the argument which would come as a surprise since it is so simple..

You once again made a first class prat of yourself with the unrelated analogy of the child and his rich father, i advice you read the post try and bring out all your understanding game.

johnydon22:


Then it maybe blamed of impaired comprehension, the post was simple as it was written in simple language. You didnt ask a question that could not be answered, as a matter of fact it is not only answerable but primary but doesn't remove the fact that it was non-sequitur to the arguments on the post which shows either you didnt read the post or you couldn't comprehend the argument which would come as a surprise since it is so simple..

U r still on the ad hominem....
Nothing new

felixomor:


U r still on the ad hominem....
Nothing new

simple truths are not ad hominem, your posts make them evident enough... How you could bring up such unrelated posts as a refutation for the articles brings your cognition into question

felixomor:


Search for HardMirror's thread on aliens and other stuff....
I cant remember the full topic....

I followed the thread to the very last end.... I never came across any positive comment(s) of yours on that thread.

adepeter26:

I followed the thread to the very last end.... I never came across any positive comment(s) of yours on that thread.

Then go n see an ophthalmologist...

adepeter26:

I followed the thread to the very last end.... I never came across any positive comment(s) of yours on that thread.

Lets keep to this thread and not digress.

Apologies Johnny....

johnydon22:


let us first put things into perspective, let us first see just what our place is in this humongous cosmos that almost certainly is indifferent to our existence, equally as malicious and treacherous to everything.

Just a few million kilometers away, if you were some sort of being on the moon or just an astronaut sent to the moon looking at the earth rise just as the sun would rise on the earth.

you would be looking at the earth that would be no more than a bright blue sphere with a pinch of white and brown but mostly dominated by a loud hue of blue.

the earth is basically like a blue marble lighting up the skyless moon world, no vegetation can be seen, no huge monuments made by humans are visible from such not too shouty distance judging from a cosmic perspective, our airplanes and pyramids, huge skyscrapers and shinning golden temples.

there is not the slightest indication that the earth is inhabited, just seems like another planet in the solar system with little or no events of any importance, it floats just like a typical planet with little or nothing to show, you would be totally lost to the bustling activities that lurk just on the skin of this blue world.

Approach the earth a little closer, a few thousand kilometers just like the distance of the international space station, now you can see the rivers and seas, you can now make out intricate patterns of canals and canyons, green patches of vegetation and the biggest of the man made structures all like an intrinsic feature in such a humble painting.

From this distance you can make out the biggest human made structures but still no sign of humans, you cannot see them walking in the street or out in the open field.

what does this mean?

The answer is obvious to us; we are very tiny creatures, we are to the earth like tiny microbes pitching on the skin of a stone we overturn from the ground, dirty and moist.

we are nothing more than microbes on the earth when you visualize the earth from the outside.

To an outside observer it is almost like we are not here.

Now just imagine the earth from a cosmic perspective, we are hosted by an average star that is insanely humongous compared to the size of the earth but this sun is just a mediocre star in our local neighborhood of stars and galactic neighbors.

Together with billions of other stars, our sun is part of a galaxy. visualizing the sun from a galactic point of view it is less than a spec of dust lost in a vast sea of sands.

This our galaxy is just one out of more than 500billion with the promise of double that size being the reality.

A tiny spec lost in a vast cosmos dancing to a tune played by an uncharted gravity that draws a cold doom near with every breath.

I explained all this to add a perspective to the points that i am about to make, we are a young specie, lost and minuscule in a universe that is far too deeper and bigger than our imagination can ever conceive, with our time no more than a cosmic blink.

we exist almost like we don't.

The universe doesn't go around for us, doesn't even seem that the universe has the slightest inclination that we are here.

Now let me quickly bring up a definition of God from a theistic point of view which is the sole nucleus of my argument.

God is an all powerful, all knowing and eternal being that is beyond time, literally caused the universe from pure nothingness and then largely interfere with humans

it all sounds all right and cozy from a human perspective but look at it from a cosmic landscape; this very definition and characteristics of God as stretched in very many vivid descriptions, confident and daring tendered by many religions ridicules the very idea of a God that is All powerful, all knowing and all perfect.

We can at least try and imagine just how huge, ominous, deep, spooky, intricate and powerful this universe is, there is a lingering possibility that it may just be one out of many.

A being capable of making something like this literally out of nothing must be just as ominous, deep, spooky, intricate and powerful or even more than the universe.

imagine, just let your mind roam free on what outstandingly weirdly powerful entity such a being would be.

We are humans, fleeting and young, vane and puny, we are subject to emotions that reveal the depth of our vulnerability; anger, hate, sadness, joy, love, affection, envy, jealousy and many of them.

May we not forget that we are basically no more than atoms in a cosmos so vast that even our imagination cannot grasp it.

Now here comes the creator, in all his power and weirdness, all that perfection and timeless aura, comes to the universe, goes to a vast corner where a local cluster seats, pin points the vigo super cluster, goes to a remote galactic corner and locates a lone spiral galaxy gleaming like a lost pearl in a sea of darkness, enters this galaxy, locates a tiny part of this galaxy where countless stars reside, pin points an average sun out of many, comes to the local solar neighborhood and comes to the tiny blue world, there is a specie of beings so tiny and fleeting, microbes living on the skin of this blue world, then this all powerful creator of the cosmos comes to this world where these very tiny creatures are then starts to help them kill each other.

That is what theism would have us believe.

I'd say that is tremendously absurd!!

theism proposes a creator for the cosmos, a seeming answer to the question of causality, all perfect, glorious, timeless and ancient, deep and all knowing, boundless power that passes the borders of infinity then goes right ahead and ridicule it.

Theism paints a picture so petty and vane, a God that is no more than a human.

here is an all powerful and knowing entity that is still subjected to emotions that reveals the crudity of our vulnerability, anger and hate, this entity that made everything can get jealous, struggles and indulges in human feuds.

If you are an all powerful creator of everything, of whom exactly are you going to be jealous of?

but here we have a God that allegedly created everything still subject to jealousy, hate and anger - such mundane characteristics paints a childish picture, an unparalleled pettiness.

The All powerful creator is so engrossed in human activities that it is busy fighting alongside humans, picking favorite humans, helping them kill each other, snoops around to see what these microbial entities are up to, gets angry when they masturbate.

needs praises and worship, even ready torture for it.

it is mind bugling how theism by itself reduced the God of its own very making into such a mundane, petty, puerile and puny concept, God is so vane that it bears a mark unbecoming of such a powerful cause for the cosmos.


The very idea of such a powerful entity being subject to emotions as anger, jealousy, sadness and a raging need for reverence and love brings God down to similar emotional vulnerability as humans.

Therefore such an entity cannot be said to be all powerful or all knowing, cannot be said to be perfect or stable.

An all powerful and perfect being would need nothing, perfection needs nothing because perfection is in fact beyond infinity. A circle is perfect at 360°, you cannot add 1° to stand if you remove 1° it ceases to be a circle.

that is the closest we can get in explaining perfection.

so what exactly does an all powerful God need anything for, what use is your sacrifice and supplications? If God is perfect and all powerful it means it cannot need anything, if this is so then your prayers, reverence, sacrifices, worship and undying piety is just as useless as the hair of a human in the dark.

For God to have a want, a need or demand be it in form or reverence, acknowledgment or worship rids it of any attribute of perfection or omnistatus.

It is a paradox to assert a God that is perfect and all powerful but still needs or demands anything - such a paradox only annihilates the subject therefore such a god cannot exist.

- either God is all powerful, perfect and needs nothing.

-or it is not all powerful or perfect and needs something.

Theism ridicules and demeans the very idea of God they conceive, it scales down the whole universe to a tiny point so shallow as the mind of the primitive humans that birthed Gods to explain it.

If there is an all powerful and all knowing creator of the cosmos, then theism with its ideas of what this entity is and should be would be an insult to it.

we are faced with the problem of universal causality, the very effects we witness all point to a single point of origin and this very lingering question thrills our minds to a quaking point, having to deal with more questions than we have answers to.

but i'd rather admit ignorance than resort to any preposterous answer with a comforting glamor.

In all this questions and ingrained bother, with the answers theism has provided in the person of God. speaking from a point of view beyond earth as the point of consideration; a cosmic perspective - i dare say and affirm.

Your God is simply too small and petty for this cosmos.

Your problem is that you want to define an all powerful omniscient God by your own idea, you want that all powerful being to be what you feel he should be. You think the producer of Boeing 737 will be unconcerned about one of the earpiece jack on the seat ? You need to think really deep

Seun:
Excellent!

You do hate God!

rhektor:



Your problem is that you want to define an all powerful omniscient God by your own idea, you want that all powerful being to be what you feel he should be. You think the producer of Boeing 737 will be unconcerned about one of the earpiece jack on the seat ? You need to think really deep

By virtue of all powerful and perfect there are certain vulnerabilities that these factors eliminates. we humans bear emotions like anger, hate, jealousy and need because we are imperfect and vulnerable creatures all round, our wanting comes from our deep seated need to satisfy and chasm within us.

For an all powerful entity to be subjected to similar emotions kills the very idea of all powerful or all perfect, it is a paradox that can never work in any way.

If you are the all powerful and all perfect creator of the cosmos, of whom could you possibly be jealous of? what exactly could you possibly need?

the underlying pettiness and mundane attributes of these characteristics confines and entity within such confines to that of a vulnerable and vane being no more than a human.

and this is in direct contradiction with the definition of all powerful and all perfect. read the post again.

kaboninc:


You do hate God!

Anyone who hates God is a misotheist [which is still theism] Seun is an atheist and making arguments against u reasonable concepts or agreeing to them is not same thing as hating the subject of argument. dont confuse the two.

johnydon22:


By virtue of all powerful and perfect there are certain vulnerabilities that these factors eliminates. we humans bear emotions like anger, hate, jealousy and need because we are imperfect and vulnerable creatures all round, our wanting comes from our deep seated need to satisfy and chasm within us.

For an all powerful entity to be subjected to similar emotions kills the very idea of all powerful or all perfect, it is a paradox that can never work in any way.

If you are the all powerful and all perfect creator of the cosmos, of whom could you possibly be jealous of? what exactly could you possibly need?

the underlying pettiness and mundane attributes of these characteristics confines and entity within such confines to that of a vulnerable and vane being no more than a human.

and this is in direct contradiction with the definition of all powerful and all perfect. read the post again.

There's no reason to read again as you've just summarised all you wrote in the thread. Like I said before your flaw is you viewing that all powerful God as human and attributing human characteristics to the same. Of whom shall he be jealous? The answer is of whoever he chooses to be jealous of.
He does as he pleases you can't query him. Imagine a super computer querying the manufacturer.
Like the example I wrote up there, would a manufacturer not be concerned about the smallest component of his invention? Please reason with that
# peace be with you

rhektor:


There's no reason to read again as you've just summarised all you wrote in the thread. Like I said before your flaw is you viewing that all powerful God as human and attributing human characteristics to the same. Of whom shall he be jealous? The answer is of whoever he chooses to be jealous of.

exactly the point these characteristics creates a God that is basically humanoid, that very quality of being under the confines of jealousy reeks of pettiness and this also keeps painting a childish image of an all powerful entity.

He does as he pleases you can't query him. Imagine a super computer querying the manufacturer.
Like the example I wrote up there, would a manufacturer not be concerned about the smallest component of his invention? Please reason with that
# peace be with you

argument of conception, this qualities are products of mundane vulnerability and want, it is puny and puerile - so when next you want to picture a God lay out uncontradicting qualities.

it is either mundane and not all powerful
or it is above mundane wants and need and is all powerful and perfect.

Put the two together is paradoxical and annihilates the subject.

johnydon22:
Anyone who hates God is a misotheist [which is still theism] Seun is an atheist and making arguments against u reasonable concepts or agreeing to them is not same thing as hating the subject of argument. dont confuse the two.

Seun hates even the concept of a God. I don't believe in the existence of a God either. But from all atheist I've come to know, a majority of them have this strong hatred on even the existence of a God.

It is one thing to agree and disagree and it is another thing to express your hatred over anything....real or imagined.