@katsumoto

- Going by the maps alone . . .it is possible to create an argument for your statment . . . however at the end of the day . . . it is still an argument . . .

- Do you have anything more concrete . . . like whether Ondo people knew when Ijaws started migrating to Ondo or was the migration done without the knowledge of the Ondo people . . .

- Cus if migration is the only statement being used . . .we can also argue that Itsekiris migrated to their present location . . . and hence one can argue that if itsekiris are not also indigenous to their present location.

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No2Atheism:

- I saw it

- It is wikipedia . . . I don' t reckon with wikipedia. . .I inheretly distrust anything on wikipedia cus i know even me can add and create history on wikipedia. Hence i always advise people not to use wikipedia.

- Even the link (which i don't reckon with) made a statement that Ijaws migrated from somewhere else to the part of Ondo . . .

- According to the link (which i don't reckon with) present location is in Ondo . . . former location is in Gbaran

- According to the maps . . . Gbaran is located in an Area which to my own untrained eye looks like the main non-yoruba Nigeria Delta . . . that does not include Ondo state.

- Since I am not good at reading longitudinal and latitudinal coordinates, can someone please help me inteprete whether those Gbaran coordinates fall within Ondo State or not . . .


Check the image yourself . . .

Gbaran is to the east of Benin which means it is not in Ondo State.

Katsumoto:

Gbaran is to the east of Benin which means it is not in Ondo State.

- Yes I notice and I know from the maps that it is certainly not in Ondo state . . . I am just trying to extra careful . . . so that it would be agreed that Gbaran is not in Ondo . . .

- Then it means we can establish from the evidence provided by Beaf as regards the Arogbo Ijaw clan of Ondo state, that they actually migrated to Ondo state from the core Niger Delta area known as Gbaran. . .

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The next questions then become:

1. When did they migrate . . .
2. Did they jus settle in Ondo without recourse to the indigenes or was there a mutual agreement for them to settle in Ondo . . .
3. During the course of their settlement . . . was the land given to them forever or was it a temporary arrangement . . .

4. If we accuse the Arogbo of migration . . .how come we are not also accusing the [b]Itsekiri [/b]of migration . . .

No2Atheism:

@katsumoto

- Going by the maps alone . . .it is possible to create an argument for your statment . . . however at the end of the day . . . it is still an argument . . .

- Do you have anything more concrete . . . like whether Ondo people knew when Ijaws started migrating to Ondo or was the migration done without the knowledge of the Ondo people . . .

- Cus if migration is the only statement being used . . .we can also argue that Itsekiris migrated to their present location . . . and hence one can argue that if itsekiris are not also indigenous to their present location.

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If you migrate to a place where no one claims ownership, then it becomes yours after a while; If you migrate to an area where people already live, to claim ownership, you have to defeat them somehow. If you gradually migrate there, then you are a guest.

The Ijaws also claim an Oduduwa linkage (maybe), but their culture and ancestry is more aligned to the Igbos and other south south or eastern tribes, imo.

and their loyalties lie with Benin, I should think.

and whatever foreign power[b] that[/b] entails.

From the link, we can at least deduce that they were there during the slave trade (since they were middlemen).
Katsumato's position is that they migrated after independence, thats why I provided a link that shows they were there pre-independence.

No2Atheism:

- Yes I notice and I know from the maps that it is certainly not in Ondo state . . . I am just trying to extra careful . . . so that it would be agreed that Gbaran is not in Ondo . . .

- Then it means we can establish from the evidence provided by Beaf as regards the Arogbo Ijaw clan of Ondo state, that they actually migrated to Ondo state from the core Niger Delta area known as Gbaran. . .

-----------------------------------------------------------

The next questions then become:

1. When did they migrate . . .
2. Did they jus settle in Ondo without recourse to the indigenes or was there a mutual agreement for them to settle in Ondo . . .
3. During the course of their settlement . . . was the land given to them forever or was it a temporary arrangement . . .

4. If we accuse the Arogbo of migration . . .how come we are not also accusing the [b]Itsekiri [/b]or migration . . .

Actually, that has been a source of conflict between the Urhobo and the Itsekiri. The Urhobo's claim the Itsekiri's are guests.

tpia.:

The Ijaws also claim an Oduduwa linkage (maybe), but their culture and ancestry is more aligned to the Igbos and other south south or eastern tribes, imo.

Nobody is involved in your hearsay and illiteracy here. The Ijaws do not have any "Oduduwa linkage". You talk very foolishly Tpia.

Everyone is linked somehow in 1 way or another no big deal.

Katsumoto:

Actually, that has been a source of conflict between the Urhobo and the Itsekiri. The Urhobo's claim the Itsekiri's are guests.

Thats not 100%. Urhobo's claim that both they and the Itsekiri's are guests of the Ijaw. The Ijaw's claim the same thing too.
The Oporoza's (the Gbaramatu you've heard of) gave both the Urhobo and Itsekiri land.

Beaf:

Nobody is involved in your hearsay and illiteracy here. The Ijaws do not have any "Oduduwa linkage". You talk very foolishly Tpia.

There is a claim that the Ijaws descend from the Binis but that claim is defeated on the basis that the Izon (Ijaw) language is disimilar from the Bini language. I guess that's the Oduduwa link Tpia was alluding to.

Katsumoto:

There is a claim that the Ijaws descend from the Binis but that claim is defeated on the basis that the Izon (Ijaw) language is disimilar from the Bini language. I guess that's the Oduduwa link Tpia was alluding to.

I have never heard of that claim. Ijaw people are Bantu's and are totally separate from the Edo's in every way.
According to anthropology, the Ijaws are an indigenous group who did not migrate from anywhere else. Their origins are steeped in pre-history, the Benin kingdom or even the Ogiso dynasty that preceded it are less than three thousand years old.

Beaf:

Nobody is involved in your hearsay and illiteracy here. The Ijaws do not have any "Oduduwa linkage". You talk very foolishly Tpia.

google must be your enemy.

The Ijos (Ijaws) of the Niger Delta are the descendants of the autochthonous people or ancient tribe of Africa known as the (H) ORU. they were known by this name by themselves and their immediate neighbours. The Ijos have kept the ancient language and culture of the ORU. It was during the time of King ADUMU-ALA (alias ODUDUWA), that ORU Princes who derived ultimately from Nubia (ancient Sudan) established city states in the Southern Nigeria region. Their names have come down to us as the ancestors ADUMU, ASARA, UJO, IGODO, NANA, ALA-FUN. These city states gave birth to different ethnic nationalities through the process of fusion and ethnic intermarriage. This is reflected in the ancestral traditions of the Ijos.


http://www.bayelsa.org.uk/main/ijaw-genesis/

maybe you should tell Bayelsa people and historians to remove this from their link?

or you're just trying to ferret out information so you can adjust it as needed later?

beaf = dumb person in denial lmfao

Katsumoto:

There is a claim that the Ijaws descend from the Binis but that claim is defeated on the basis that the Izon (Ijaw) language is disimilar from the Bini language. I guess that's the Oduduwa link Tpia was alluding to.

no, its not, actually.

But Ijaws claim they're the original owners of Benin and that the Binis met them there then pushed them further south.

tpia.:

google must be your enemy.

maybe you should tell Bayelsa govt and historians to remove this from their link?

or you're just trying to ferret out information so you can adjust it as needed later?

Go and sleep!
Is that the same as claiming descent from Oduduwa? Or does your quote not say they descended from Oru people?

sjeezy8:

beaf = dumb person in denial lmfao

You are just as stup!d as tpia. People who can't read and deduce facts from the simplest of texts.

tpia: The Ijos (Ijaws) of the Niger Delta are the descendants of the autochthonous people or ancient tribe of Africa known as the (H) ORU. they were known by this name by themselves and their immediate neighbours. The Ijos have kept the ancient language and culture of the ORU.

What part of this did your little brain miss?

tpia.:

no, its not, actually.

But Ijaws claim they're the original owners of Benin and that the Binis met them there then pushed them further south.

wow this is something new . . .

can u please provide additional information as concerns this
. . .

i am igbo and we are descendants of oru(not all igbos are).oru are riverine people that migrated upland.some of us claim bini lineage and are still found in imo state.

These people and their trivial tribal jargons. Why are you people wasting your valuable time on these things that do not really matter. Everyone migrated from somewhere, only somebody come first. The whole Nigeria is less than 1 million square kilometer and the southern part of Nigeria is less than 300,000 square kilometer, and you are all trying to fight on this small piece of land. You guys, you all look like alike.  What is the difference between Ibori, Oshiomole and Tinibu. You guys you all look alike something wasting your time trying to find difference where there is non.

It was during the time of King ADUMU-ALA (alias ODUDUWA), that ORU Princes who derived ultimately from Nubia (ancient Sudan) established city states in the Southern Nigeria region. Their names have come down to us as the ancestors ADUMU, ASARA, UJO, IGODO, NANA, ALA-FUN. These city states gave birth to different ethnic nationalities through the process of fusion and ethnic intermarriage. This is reflected in the ancestral traditions of the Ijos.

- There was Oduduwa.
- There was Oru princes.
- It does not say Oru princes came from Oduduwa.
- It also does not say that Oru princes did not come from Oduduwa.

- It does not say where Oduduwa came from.
- It only mentions where Oru princes came from.

--------------------------------------------

The names of the Oru princes are given as:

- ADUMU
- ASARA
- UJO
- IGODO
- NANA
- ALA-FUN

Tsiya:

These people and their trivial tribal jargons. Why are you people wasting your valuable time on these things that do not really matter. Everyone migrated from somewhere, only somebody come first. The whole Nigeria is less than 1 million square kilometer and the southern part of Nigeria is less than 300,000 square kilometer, and you are all trying to fight on this small piece of land. You guys, you all look like alike.  What is the difference between Ibori, Oshiomole and Tinibu. You guys you all look alike something wasting your time trying to find difference where there is non.

- Okay . . . .thank you for the advice . . .

- Knowing the truth about history helps to know why certain decisions are being made in the present . . .

- For example . . . kindly tell the Hausa Fulanis to relinquish Ilorin that was stolen via deceit from the Afonjas who invited them and who the Hausa-Fulanis stole Ilorin from . . .unless off course you support the Nigerian concept of lets sweep it under the carpet.

No2Atheism:



wow this is something new . . .

can u please provide additional information as concerns this
. . .

its their tradition.

bear in mind the fact that Ijaws have had different names and subgroups over the centuries.

The British applied the name Ijaw/Izon as a general term, I think.

http://books.google.com/books?id=DC-Q6vgEYTQC&pg=RA1-PA73&lpg=RA1-PA73&dq=ijo+and+benin&source=bl&ots=Y0dCxgNQr7&sig=gcQYTsXl7MVn4NJ2yswcJNfPfgA&hl=en&ei=N3FOS9f3HNG5lAeDjYGODQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBgQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=ijo%20and%20benin&f=false

No2Atheism:

- There was Oduduwa.
- There was Oru princes.
- It does not say Oru princes came from Oduduwa.
- It also does not say that Oru princes did not come from Oduduwa.

- It does not say where Oduduwa came from.
- It only mentions where Oru princes came from.

--------------------------------------------

The names of the Oru princes are given as:

- ADUMU
- ASARA
- UJO
- IGODO
- NANA
- ALA-FUN

Adumu is another name for Oduduwa in an Ijaw dialect

ie they have a prince named Adumu who they identify as being Oduduwa.

Point is, this is meant to show some linkage with ancient Ife

Tsiya:

These people and their trivial tribal jargons. Why are you people wasting your valuable time on these things that do not really matter. Everyone migrated from somewhere, only somebody come first. The whole Nigeria is less than 1 million square kilometer and the southern part of Nigeria is less than 300,000 square kilometer, and you are all trying to fight on this small piece of land. You guys, you all look like alike.  What is the difference between Ibori, Oshiomole and Tinibu. You guys you all look alike something wasting your time trying to find difference where there is non.

It is because of ignorance that people sometimes get into situations that can be avoided. Take the Ijaw/Ilaje conflict or the Ijaw/Itsekiri/Urhobo conflict.

tpia.:

Adumu is another name for Oduduwa in an Ijaw dialect

ie they have a prince named Adumu who they identify as being Oduduwa.

Point is, this is meant to show some linkage with ancient Ife

It doesn't show any linkage. If anything, you are trying to say that Yoruba's are descended from Ijaw people; because Ijaw people are of incredible antiquity that is beyond Dugbe market comprehension.

^^ I do hope you arent aloy emeka because that's too embarrassing to even consider although never say never at any time

No2Atheism:

- Okay . . . .thank you for the advice . . .

- Knowing the truth about history helps to know why certain decisions are being made in the present . . .

- For example . . . kindly tell the Hausa Fulanis to relinquish Ilorin that was stolen via deceit from the Afonjas who invited them and who the Hausa-Fulanis stole Ilorin from . . .unless off course you support the Nigerian concept of lets sweep it under the carpet.

Nothing was stolen here. Everything that happen is a process of evolution of the Nigerian Society. The human society evolve from the past and that is how it shall continue.You can never undo the past. It is just like Red Indians will ask the whites to leave the North America and move back to Europe. You just have to accept the fact that you cannot undo 200 years of history just to satisfy the fantasy of the Yoruba people. Look at the way the Northern Nigeria is set up. The Fulani, who are the minority found themselves in the position of power and you never hear any society complaining that the Fulani should move back to Mali or Senegal.

You guys are all funny. The ealier you forget about these things the better. Because you guys all look the same, and I have no doubts you guys all come from the same ancestor whether he is Bini or Oduduwa. All these things about Oduduwa, do they even make sense to you? Why are you guys sticking to these myths and folklores

Tsiya:

Nothing was stolen here. Everything that happen is a process of evolution of the Nigerian Society. The human society evolve from the past and that is how it shall continue.You can never undo the past. It is just like Red Indians will ask the whites to leave the North America and move back to Europe. You just have to accept the fact that you cannot undo 200 years of history just to satisfy the fantasy of the Yoruba people. Look at the way the Northern Nigeria is set up.

You guys are all funny. The ealier you forget about these things the better. Because you guys all look the same, and I have no doubts you guys all come from the same ancestor whether he is Bini or Oduduwa. All these things about Oduduwa, do they even make sense to you? Why are you guys sticking to these myths and folklores

Nothing was stolen here. Everything that happen is a process of evolution of the Nigerian Society.

Hopefully it would be the same evolution that would be used to take back what has been stolen . . .

The Fulani, who are the minority found themselves in the position of power and you never hear any society complaining that the Fulani should move back to Mali or Senegal.

Found themselves in power by stealing it through deceit .  .  . yea right  . . .

You can never undo the past.

- Hmm . . . an arrogant statement if there ever was one . . .

- Would it be safe for me to assume that you are benefitting from the past that you claim cannot be undone . . .

- Watch and see how the lies of the past is undone by the truth.

Tsiya:

Nothing was stolen here. Everything that happen is a process of evolution of the Nigerian Society. The human society evolve from the past and that is how it shall continue.You can never undo the past. It is just like Red Indians will ask the whites to leave the North America and move back to Europe. You just have to accept the fact that you cannot undo 200 years of history just to satisfy the fantasy of the Yoruba people. Look at the way the Northern Nigeria is set up. The Fulani, who are the minority found themselves in the position of power and you never hear any society complaining that the Fulani should move back to Mali or Senegal.

You guys are all funny. The ealier you forget about these things the better. Because you guys all look the same, and I have no doubts you guys all come from the same ancestor whether he is Bini or Oduduwa. All these things about Oduduwa, do they even make sense to you? Why are you guys sticking to these myths and folklores

Is there a particular human society you know of which doesnt have myths and folklores?

enlighten us since I've never heard of any.

Of course people will look the same to an outsider, but all that means is the outsider isnt familiar with the territory.


Its like saying all whites look the same or all Asians look the same, to a non-white or non-Asian

Yorubas are not seeking for Autonomy in Nigeria. we want to leave Nigeria like the Oni of Ife has said. Republic of Benin.

We want to be part of the republic of Benin. And if anyone doubt, the United nation can conduct a poll, if we want to leave Nigeria or remain in Nigeria. We want to leave. It is not in our best interest to have remain in Nigeria. Autonomy does not solve our problem. We had autonomy in the 60,s but what happen was the north use the military to remove. And it is only a yoruba man who does not know his history that would tell you that autonomy in Nigeria is the solution. It is a temporary solution before the north do what they did in the 60,s.

We leave Nigeria to join the republic of Benin. And that give us forever autonomy that can never be cancel. We do not benefit anything from other ethnics in Nigeria that we need to remain with them.

They are the one gaining financial and otherwise from us.  So any yorubaman who think, that state allocation would stop, is an idiot. He does not know maths.

We have calculated the gain and lost in dollar. It is only a stupid Yorubaman that would want to remain in Nigeria. If you are not gaining anything from the other person, do you remain with them and let them dry you up, while they keep thier own.


Our future is in better in Benin republic than Nigeria. 1,000,000 times.

No2Atheism:

Hopefully it would be the same evolution that would be used to take back what has been stolen . . .

Found themselves in power by stealing it through deceit .  .  . yea right  . . .

It is not stealing. It was just what the political system then allowed. You cannot use your common sense to judge or justify the actions of the past. Everything done in the past is base on the common interest of the people at that time. The Sokoto Empire was the rising Superpower in the region then, and it was politically wise for them to align themselves with the dominating superpower of the region. Just like the way many countries are aligning themseves with America. Hence the Fulani did not steal or decieve anybody then.