karlz:

no its cause I tell you they were appropriately rewarded by same God who is the very owner of all souls but you wouldnt have any of it so you can call God evil and wicked from your point of view, so infact you are not an atheist; one who believes there is no God, but an anti-christ who believes there is a wicked God and is willing to oppose Him in your own judgement...as for Islam, the Promise of God to the Nation of Isreal is already fulfilled and anything outside this Promise is not from God.

karlz:

no its cause I tell you they were appropriately rewarded by same God who is the very owner of all souls but you wouldnt have any of it so you can call God evil and wicked from your point of view, so infact you are not an atheist; one who believes there is no God, but an anti-christ who believes there is a wicked God and is willing to oppose Him in your own judgement...as for Islam, the Promise of God to the Nation of Isreal is already fulfilled and anything outside this Promise is not from God.

hopefulLandlord:
what exactly are you trying to do here? these hermeneutics are getting worse by each post..
when the Israelites were to be enslaved in Egypt, did the Egyptians have some agreement with Yahweh for a time they would be enslaved for?

if no, were you then expecting Pharaoh to just look at Moses and just let them go on first attempt? a slave that they used to drive the economy would just be let go because some lonely man came and said something about his version of god

and what's so wrong about Pharaoh's first response?
try to imagine a Muslim coming to take your properties and telling you Allah told him to come and take them because you have used it for a specific time (which you had no knowledge of any time limit before), would your reply be any better than Pharaoh's reply to Moses? or would you just give him your properties instead.......... think about it

and what exactly did Yahweh do to Pharaoh? because last I checked he just kept punishing Egypt instead

so a slave one day comes and say "I want all your slaves that are my people leave this land for free cuz my god promised them something" and you expect him to just let them go easily? did I need to remind you the Egyptians had their own god they're worshipping too?

he "knoweth not that Lord" truly and that's a fact! he's not even telling a lie here, the Egyptians did not know your Yahweh!!

so let's just assume his reply was so very wrong, what would it cost Yahweh to simply kill him? no he doesn't, he doesn't even kill his family

saying the Pharoah deserved what God did to him. Okay, maybe his first reply was so terribly bad, What about the fact that Yahweh went through and killed all of the Egyptian first born children? God literally made the Pharoah just let that happen because he kept hardening his heart. It makes no sense from a moral standpoint to threaten to kill someone's children if they don't give you something, but every time they have a chance to give you what you want you make it impossible. Hell, it never made sense to me either way why he killed their children. He's supposed to literally be the moral authority for all of humanity.

paybak:
bros before God strikes the first born and before he started doing all those things you said, He shewed pharaoh miracles through moses and He won all the contests, they(egypt) has a god when the pharaoh during the time and days of joseph let them be to serve their God, didn't they? Bros think now.. God warned pharaoh not once, not twice bro before he started dealing with him, pharaoh case is in no way different from king Nebuchadnezzar, who after seeing many wonders and great thing done by God still didn't believe in Him untill God dealt with him then he bacame a witness for God that he wrote with his own hand the greatness of God. If you so much hate the Holy Bible that you don't want to hold it, kindly download it on your mobile and check exodus very, very well.. YAHWEH IS A MERCIFUL ONE.. Take cain and abel for example, after He accept the sacrificeof the latter and the other was wrought, He still called upon cain asking why he was wrought and told him Genesis 4:6 "And the LORD said unto cain, why art thou wroth, and his countenance fell
7. If though doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him...... Still writing please..

hopefulLandlord:


so you're calling snakes swallowing snakes as some sign that Pharaoh should let them go?

bros, you need to think this very well too and personalise this a bit to have a clearer picture

so in the hypothetical scenario I gave about a Muslim asking you to surrender all your properties to him because his own god told him to tell you so and you refuse (which is a sensible thing to do)

if he then somehow tells you that he'll show signs that his god is true with signs by making it rain immediately, he goes down on his knees, slams his head on the floor and heavy rain starts, let's assume further that you pray to god to stop the rain after the rain starts but that didn't happen
do you now say "Yes! that's a good sign Islam is true and my own religion is fake, Mr Gambari, take all my properties Muslim"

would that be your reply? if yes, then I agree totally with you, if you would still damn those signs and say No!, then you can't possibly blame Pharaoh's refusal


this issue isn't as complicated as you're making it seem

paybak:
i just wrote the conclusion you should see.. So on your scenario ish, this is how it works.. It happens that during the days of Prophet Elijah that their were other false prophets and in the gathering, they called their own god and it answers them not and Elijah called upon His own God too and did He not consume their own gods with fire from heaven.. He answereth by fire.. And in the case of pharaoh, was he not allowed to do/perform his own miracles too? But my God (God of Moses) won on many occasions that he may know that God is truly the One who sent Moses buh he would never listens.. So the answer to your queistion now If any muslim should confront me and win on two occasions then i'm hands down, it totally means have been deceived by all those words in the bible and they were never real. Buh let their be a fair chance, call upon thy own god and lemme call upon my own God and let their be a brawl between them first not just coming straight at me with a dagger on my neck saying his god want him to take something from me.. God i know will/would never forced anything to happen.. He didn't even force people to worship him.. I hope that's clear now.

Abraham had more sons than just Isaac (by Sarah) and Ishmael (by Hagar). He also had six sons by Keturah, his wife after the death of Sarah: Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah (Genesis 25:2). The Midianites were the descendants of Midian and therefore children of Abraham. They settled in “the land of the east” (Genesis 25:6). Most scholars believe the land of Midian was officially on both sides of the Gulf of Aqaba, although the Midianites showed nomadic tendencies later in their history (see Habakkuk 3:7, ESV).

When Moses fled the wrath of Pharaoh, he traveled to Midian (Exodus 2:15). There, Moses met and married his wife, Zipporah, and served his father-in-law, Jethro, as a shepherd for forty years. The fact that Jethro was “a priest of Midian” (Exodus 2:16) indicates that the Midianites, at least during Moses’ time, still retained the knowledge of the God of their father Abraham (cf. Jethro’s words and actions in Exodus 18). At the end of Moses’ time in Midian, God appeared to Moses—still in Midian—and commissioned him to lead the Israelites out of slavery (Exodus 3—4).

As the children of Israel traveled through the wilderness, they employed the services of a guide familiar with the desert—Moses’ Midianite brother-in-law, Hobab (Numbers 10:29). However, the relations between the Israelites and the Midianites began to sour when the Midianites joined forces with the Moabites in order to hire Balaam to curse Israel (Numbers 22). Later, when Israel fell into idolatry and sexual sin with the Moabite women (Numbers 25), we find that a prominent Midianite woman was also involved (Numbers 25:6). The Lord then told Moses to wage war against the Midianites: “Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them. They treated you as enemies when they deceived you in the Peor incident involving their sister Kozbi, the daughter of a Midianite leader” (Numbers 25:17–19). The Israelites did eventually attack the Midianites, meting out divine retribution against their enemies (Numbers 31). Five kings of the Midianites were killed, as was Balaam (Numbers 31:. This battle was one of the last things Moses accomplished as leader of the Israelites.

During the time of the judges, “the Midianites, Amalekites and other eastern peoples invaded the country” and plundered the land (Judges 6:3). For seven years, “Midian so impoverished the Israelites that they cried out to the Lord for help” (verse 6). God answered their cries and raised up Gideon as a deliverer. With just 300 men, Gideon defeated the armies of the Midianites, although the foe was “thick as locusts. Their camels could no more be counted than the sand on the seashore” (Judges 7:12). Of course, God was involved, and He was the One who granted the victory over the Midianites (verse 22).

Later references to the Midianites include allusions to God’s victory over them (Psalm 83:9; Isaiah 10:26). And, in a prophecy of Israel’s future glory in the Messianic kingdom, Isaiah writes, “Herds of camels will cover your land, / young camels of Midian and Ephah. / And all from Sheba will come, / bearing gold and incense / and proclaiming the praise of the Lord” (Isaiah 60:6).

Zither:

You asked what crime Jericho committed but you deliberately keep mum over the fact that Rahab and her entire family in the city of Jericho were spared. The walls collapsed but the part of the wall where Rahab's house was located kept standing.

hopefulLandlord:


no there's no dagger at all in that scenario, he simply came amicably for you to surrender your property

and then try to remember that Yahweh can test your faith in him twice or more by letting your opponent win certain battles if the story of Job were anything to go by, perhaps your losing is part of his "plan" cuz he works in mysterious ways, perhaps he really wants you to lose to the Muslim or even lose your property to test your faith

so you're telling me all it would take for you to lose your faith is losing to a Muslim twice?

if yes I do admire your sincerity and I hope you act it

Zither:
Hopefullandlord, you claim that the God of Abraham, in other words, is known for going into random killing spree like Muhammed in the Quoran so that there's nothing that separates both religions.

Long before Moses came into existence the people of Israel had been unjustly made slaves to the Egyptians. They were tortured, they were forced to toil for the king, their men, women and children suffered greatly in their hands because a new and ungrateful king who did not know and appreciate what Joseph did to save Egypt made it so. When Moses was born the current Pharaoh had noticed that the population of the Israelites was increasing geometrically so he ordered the midwives to kill any baby that was a male and spare the female babies. The midwives feared God and did nothing of such so Pharaoh gave the order to throw any male child into the river and spare the female child. This wicked acts of Pharaoh made God's punishment inevitable. It was only a matter of time. Moses was the whip God used to inflict pain and destruction on Pharaoh and his people.

Yes, God hardened Pharaoh's heart because He wanted to punish him for his evil ways as well as show His supremacy to the world over man.

Besides, God is no respecter of persons. He has no favorites. When the Israelites sinned He punished them. When Moses in his anger performed a miracle by making water come out of a rock without giving God the glory God told him he would never enter the promised land.

How does this correlate with the killings carried out by Muhammad? He raped women and killed at will. He terrorized neighbouring cities to satisfy his bloodthirsty nature and as infidels they deserved death. If truly there's no difference between them then why are Christians not waging war against non-christian nations?

As regards the Midianites here is a quote:[/b]




You asked what crime Jericho committed but you deliberately keep mum over the fact that Rahab and her entire family in the city of Jericho were spared. The walls collapsed but the part of the wall where Rahab's house was located kept standing.

I could still mention hundreds of differences between the God of Abraham and the god of Muhammad but let this suffice to let you know that you know nothing when it comes to religion. Your eagerness to dispute religious claims is the same thing that betrays your ignorance in the matter.

paybak:
this is funny... Now i see you are a devouted christain still caught up.. So you mean to say you know and believe in His mysterious working ways? And believe in having Faith in Him? Anyway these people won't even come amicably.. It's not in thier blood and secondly.. There's a way of being called christians, you are not one hence you don't know the operation and Job you just mentioned, why did he not failed? because he was operating a higher faith in God and i was there last two years that i almost lost everything even my life buh because i'm called by His name, i'm His son and hence He still work wonders... When God is working, even if you are blind, you'd see it, even if you are deaf, you'd hear it. God is that mighty.. How on earth would you throw a man in a furnance of fire and they are not still been burnt? Why would an hungry lion refuse to eat a fresh meat thrown at them? How would a sea parts into two? I can't just denounce christain God just like that because i failed twice buh because He will be the one to lead me through His spirit and i'd need no one to tell me God is the one working.. Have been serving Him all my Life.. I once prayed this prayer "Lord, if islam is truly the way to your kingdom then please i've given much that i may make this kingdom then help me to see the truth." and He still leads me by Christ Jesus His son.. Like i said in my first post on this thread about a muslim who converted to christain and now a pastor, he prayed to God after seeing a verse in the koran and God shewed him the truth is Christ Jesus and till today, he still prays for all muslims all over the world that God might help them as He has helped him to find the truth. Bye

hopefulLandlord:


this is deep preaching without still telling us what you'll do, so there's "frequency"

the question here is that what would you do? would you therefore let him go because his prayer thumped yours twice? would you therefore become a Muslim and admit your god has failed you? or do you see it all as a test of faith?

all these preaching are unneeded

paybak:
it's obvious have answered your question more than twice now buh your understanding is something else.. You are just in same spot since.. There's no need for any more response. God help us all. Bye

So the answer to your queistion now If any muslim should confront me and win on two occasions then i'm hands down, it totally means have been deceived by all those words in the bible

hopefulLandlord:
you keep talking off point

I never said your god is wicked, I'm saying his acts on the OT is no better than Mohammed's worst acts

btw, you're making a repetitive mistake here that I've corrected twice but you seem bent on making it over and over

IGNORE MY ATHEISM ON THIS THREAD

just look at me like someone who's OBJECTIVELY comparing Mohammed's acts and Yahweh of old testament

karlz:

God isnt wicked...but He is morally wrong to have killed innocent infants and hardened pharoahs heart to his destruction...
If you understood my post you wouldnt be comparing God's actions with any others'

hopefulLandlord:


okay

paybak:
you can do yourself a favour by searching that christianity and see, coined by man though and it means "followers of christ" "like Christ."

2. The old testament law was abolished through the preaching of Jesus Christ and reason why the old testament is still a bible is beacuse most of the books in the old testaments bear reacords of the coming of jesus christ.. How then do you expect to believe in the miracle of Christ and His birth as the messaiah without a traceable prophesies hence the need for the old testament.. And old testament is totally about isrealites and since jesus of nazareth was/is an isrealite, then the need for the old testament in the Bible. The laws which the new testament abolished were the sacrifices and the killing of rams and presenting of burnt offerings for sake of sin of individual, families and sorts.

3. What do you mean by "is there a book of jesus"? I'm not getting that, buh if you mean if jesus ever wrote a book in the bible then i will implore you to please get a bible someday. Even your prophet that came 500 years after never wrote the Quran himself. Jesus had disciples following him everywhere all through His ministry and they bear recoed of everything He said and preached. So i'm not understanding what you really mean by that.

karlz:

are you an atheist that says there is NO GOD but yet you hate Him? whats the point answering you?

paybak:
bros no dey mind those guys jare.. I know he will still go to cain and abel story.. They will only handpicked a verse in the bible and they'd forget the Bible is a complete book which they ought to know what led to the other. Islam is just a philosophy of a man who thinks he's hearing a voice.. He was/is the first anti christ, i read few of his stories long, long ago and he doesn't worth our Lord Jesus Christ any bit, even Elisha dried bone performed a miracle in the tom and this prophet dead or alive never performed any nor prophesy anything.. He made the religion out of his own believe and forced it on them all arabs through war and his followers take the path but it is for the word of our Christ Jesus to come to past though John 16:2.. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

that is the only thing Jesus said about him(the prophet) and his followers, that's why you see them going about killing christians today all in the name of thier god.. Don't be surprised bro. That's who they were supposed to become. Every muslim today has the spirit of their prophet cuz he wrote the quran and laid the foundation of his religion with his own personal beliefs about life, none was from God.. It's all his own teaching. That's why he said they should beat thier wife.. And that's why you see them going about marrying 50 wives cuz their prophet has 13 or more wives, can't remember the accurate number.

Kbanka:


Your answers are meant to convince us that what the OP posted is enough reason for us to embrace Christianity despite enriching one 'man of God' in the process.

paybak:
I think those that went to God only through His son is on the right path.. I have this pastor who converted from islam who will always take time to pray for his brethren in the religion that they may read and understand the koran(quran) he said before he and his family agrees to destroy the mosque in theie compound he used to be the one to do call to worship and all sort and as time goes by, he came across a verse in the quran which state that "ye have seen the truth buh ye blieve it not" so he said he read, meditate and prayed to God for this truth and that's when God direct him to His son.. And he ask God for a sign still if indeed christianity is the truth that was reffered to in the quran and he said God gave him the gift of speaking in tongue right from the dreams.. And also aside that, he and other muslim converts testify that the quran bear record of jesus christ which is why it mentions His name even more than the prophet.

paybak:
I think those that went to God only through His son is on the right path.. I have this pastor who converted from islam who will always take time to pray for his brethren in the religion that they may read and understand the koran(quran) he said before he and his family agrees to destroy the mosque in theie compound he used to be the one to do call to worship and all sort and as time goes by, he came across a verse in the quran which state that "ye have seen the truth buh ye blieve it not" so he said he read, meditate and prayed to God for this truth and that's when God direct him to His son.. And he ask God for a sign still if indeed christianity is the truth that was reffered to in the quran and he said God gave him the gift of speaking in tongue right from the dreams.. And also aside that, he and other muslim converts testify that the quran bear record of jesus christ which is why it mentions His name even more than the prophet.

Kbanka:


It's Christianity yu hoped to spread with this post, abi? Why have yu resorted to bashing other religions instead of promoting christianity and Christians? Sell me your ideology, maybe I might buy it. Personally, I'm a fan of making sense. Right nw, the way you and OP are putting it, is not helping.

If this were a debate with Karl, OP and paybak VS Hopefullandlord alone, I'll go with Hopefullandlords argument since, IMHO, he's making more sense and hasn't resorted to chastising other religions like the rest of yu. With that, the post is achieving the opposite of what it started out to achieve.

Henceforth, bear in mind that it's nt a comparison between Islam and Christianity (that wouldn't do much either since there are other religions out there). Be objective and get to the point. Why do you 'think' Christianity is the only true religion?

Ioseph:


How does this prove that Christianity is the one true religion?

You do know that there are more religions than just Christianity and Islam, right?

Kbanka:


Your answers are meant to convince us that what the OP posted is enough reason for us to embrace Christianity despite enriching one 'man of God' in the process.

paybak:
I think those that went to God only through His son is on the right path.. I have this pastor who converted from islam who will always take time to pray for his brethren in the religion that they may read and understand the koran(quran) he said before he and his family agrees to destroy the mosque in theie compound he used to be the one to do call to worship and all sort and as time goes by, he came across a verse in the quran which state that "ye have seen the truth buh ye blieve it not" so he said he read, meditate and prayed to God for this truth and that's when God direct him to His son.. And he ask God for a sign still if indeed christianity is the truth that was reffered to in the quran and he said God gave him the gift of speaking in tongue right from the dreams.. And also aside that, he and other muslim converts testify that the quran bear record of jesus christ which is why it mentions His name even more than the prophet.