Junia:

Backsliding doesn't mean you have lost your salvation. It only means you are not matured enough to know who you are in Christ. Thus, you find it difficult to live as a Christian.

Salvation is not lost.
Jesus said no one can take pluck His own from His hands.
Christians are citizens of Heaven.
We are cealed with the Holy Spirit.
We are given eternal life.
The gift of Salvation is irrevocable.
Go and read my first reply to the op. You will understand better.

You mean once a believer is saved, he's saved forever, even if he forms the habit of sinning after sinning

D concept of once saved,always saved is erroneous and a teaching exhumed from d deepest part of hell to deceive undiscerning christians so they can revel in the illusion till they die and find themselves in hell.
A christian can lose his or her salvation when they Go back into sins,whether sins of omission or commission,and they refuse to repent. its a pity we have so many false teachers who have propagated this teaching like wildfire and have deceived many.
Every heavenly minded believer should daily work out his salvation with fear and trembling.

plainbibletruth:


Junia raised these pertinent questions/issues, which i am restating here, to which it will be nice to have your response:
1. Can the "New creation" (2 Cor. 5:17) be destroyed?
2. Will God "un-declare" what in his righteousness he has previously declared justified (Rom. 5:1)?
3. Does eternal life (John 3:16) not mean eternal?
4. Will God go back on his promise and cancel the deposit that guarantees eternal life (Eph. 1:13-14)?

Direct references (specifically addressing each of these issues) in the Bible to your responses will be most useful.

A New Creation can not be destroyed if the New Creation REMAINS. But what if the New creation leaves the fold?

Note, Jesus our Lord always uses what is familiar to teach what is not. He used what we could see and relate with to teach us heavenly principles and we are going to consider one of them.

The Prodigal Son.

Why was he prodigal? He was prodigal becos he RETURNED. But what if he didn't?

Now lets consider certain things closely.

1. Did Christ used that story to teach us about two kinds of Christians in the fold? Yes.
One who remains and one who leaves or backslides.

Now let's focus on the one who backslided.

Was he a son? Yes.
Was he a New creation before he left? What does it mean to be a new Creation?
To be a new creation is having the life of the father in you.
Did that son had the life of his father in him? Yes, that was why he could demand and get his own portion of the inheritance.

There's a question here, Why didn't the father stop that son from going away to filth, since when the gift of salvation is given it can not be lost?

Answer: It is not the father who takes back what he has given, because his gifts are without repentance.

If that Son had died out there, would he have made heaven? I'd say No, why? Checkout out what the Father did when that son came back. Work was done on him. He was restored.

I am saved, but what happens when i fall into fornication and in the act the trumpet sounds? Will i be caught up with you brethren becos i have been saved? Remember no one commits sin by mistake.

Believers especially carefully plan sin, it begins with a thought, which lingers until it becomes lust, then it matures to action.

While this is going on, the trumpet sounds, do you think i will be caught, when we get to heaven we then will talk about it?

Take Adam for instance, did he lose his place as a king of the earth? Yes,

Was it God who took it back from him? No.

He gave it up.
God had declared Adam King, but will he remain King over the earth even when he gives up his throne, just because God has said so? If that's the case, why do we, his descendants need restoration today?


God will never take back the salvation He has given, but we can give it up by spiritual insensitivity and carelessness.

What does it mean to return back to the Vomit? Is it not to go back to our former ways.

And, someone saying those who draw back are not members of the fold is wrong. The Holy Spirit has no business addressing the unsaved as drawing back. What are they drawing back from, and to what?

If they were not saved in the first place, then there wont be any drawing back to do.

God bless.

GodsMopol:


You mean once a believer is saved, he's saved forever, even if he forms the habit of sinning after sinning

A believer cannot develop the habit of sinning. He who lives in sin is not born of the Father.
Th Bible didn't say that person was born of the father and has changed. The Bible says he is not born of the father.
So no believer can develop such habit.
If you see someone who says he or she is a Christian and his life tells otherwise, you should who he or she actually is.

analice107:

Saying none of the Disciples was saved won't be correct sir. What makes a man saved is the Holy Spirit in them and the Apostles, all 12 of them had Him, hence, them healing the sick, casting out devils, and raising the dead even when the Master was still with them.

If you say no disciple was saved, i can agree, but the Apostles were and Judas was an Apostle, not just a disciple.

Tell me one thing today's Christians are partakers of that Judas didn't partake of. Nothing. They may not have carried the presence of Jesus with them where ever they went because Christ was still with them in the flesh, nevertheless, they were empowered to do what even today's Christians can't do.

Judas was saved sir.

You didn't get me well.
None of them was saved.
They didn't have the Holy Spirit when Jesus was with them.
They received the Spirit on the day of Pentecost.
For the miracles, Jesus gave them the authority to do so.

[quote author=Junia post=57749872]
A believer cannot develop the habit of sinning. He who lives in sin is not born of the Father.
Th Bible didn't say that person was born of the father and has changed. The Bible says he is not born of the father.
So no believer can develop such habit.
If you see someone who says he or she is a Christian and his life tells otherwise, you should who he or she actually is.[/quote

In other words, A Christian that was born of God can't make mistake. cause to be born of God means to be born again. And so many has gotten born again and has lost their salvation e.g.

1 Timothy 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

Paul assured had gotten those guys converted in the past and I trust Paul, they must be born again and here is Paul talking to them about their shortcomings.

Junia:

You didn't get me well.
None of them was saved.
They didn't have the Holy Spirit when Jesus was with them.
They received the Spirit on the day of Pentecost.
For the miracles, Jesus gave them the authority to do so.

I think what you mean to say is that, the Holy Spirit had not taken their bodies as permanent dwelling place(?). because, the Master empowered them with the Holy Spirit, that was why they were able to cast out demons.

The 12 all had the Holy Spirit, but he wasn't indwelling as at then.

The authority is the Holy Spirit sir.

analice107:

A New Creation can not be destroyed if the New Creation REMAINS. But what if the New creation leaves the fold?

Note, Jesus our Lord always uses what is familiar to teach what is not. He used what we could see and relate with to teach us heavenly principles and we are going to consider one of them.

The Prodigal Son.

Why was he prodigal? He was prodigal becos he RETURNED. But what if he didn't?

Now lets consider certain things closely.

1. Did Christ used that story to teach us about two kinds of Christians in the fold? Yes.
One who remains and one who leaves or backslides.

Now let's focus on the one who backslided.

Was he a son? Yes.
Was he a New creation before he left? What does it mean to be a new Creation?
To be a new creation is having the life of the father in you.
Did that son had the life of his father in him? Yes, that was why he could demand and get his own portion of the inheritance.

There's a question here, Why didn't the father stop that son from going away to filth, since when the gift of salvation is given it can not be lost?

Answer: It is not the father who takes back what he has given, because his gifts are without repentance.

If that Son had died out there, would he have made heaven? I'd say No, why? Checkout out what the Father did when that son came back. Work was done on him. He was restored.

I am saved, but what happens when i fall into fornication and in the act the trumpet sounds? Will i be caught up with you brethren becos i have been saved? Remember no one commits sin by mistake.

Believers especially carefully plan sin, it begins with a thought, which lingers until it becomes lust, then it matures to action.

While this is going on, the trumpet sounds, do you think i will be caught, when we get to heaven we then will talk about it?

Take Adam for instance, did he lose his place as a king of the earth? Yes,

Was it God who took it back from him? No.

He gave it up.
God had declared Adam King, but will he remain King over the earth even when he gives up his throne, just because God has said so? If that's the case, why do we, his descendants need restoration today?


God will never take back the salvation He has given, but we can give it up by spiritual insensitivity and carelessness.

What does it mean to return back to the Vomit? Is it not to go back to our former ways.

And, someone saying those who draw back are not members of the fold is wrong. The Holy Spirit has no business addressing the unsaved as drawing back. What are they drawing back from, and to what?

If they were not saved in the first place, then there wont be any drawing back to do.

God bless.

A new creation cannot leave the fold. He has no desire to do so because it is Christ living in Him.

Understand the content of the prodigal son. Jesus used it to inform sinners to return to the Father because He will accept them.
The prodigal son wasn't a new creation.

You are twisting the scriptures.
The prodigal son describes the state of man when we were created. We left because of Adam. And now we can return because of Jesus.
Remember, Jesus was not yet dead and risen. So there was nothing like a new creation.

When you fornicate as a believer and the trumphet sounds, you will still make Heaven because you still have faith in God.
We sin but we don't live in sin.
Imagine a believer dressing nicely and an unbeliever lusts after him or her. The believr has actually sinned unknowingly because the unbeliever wouldnt lust if not for him or her. That doesn't make you lose your salvation.
Look at Moses, Samson and Solomon. They sinned before dieing. Will they go to hell ?? No, because they were not living in sin and also they trusted in God.

No believer turns back.
Remember Jesus said no one can pluck His own from His hands.
Also there are those who enter the sheepfold by not using the door (Jesus).
They are just religious people. When difficulties come, they turn their back.

analice107:

I think what you mean to say is that, the Holy Spirit had not taken their bodies as permanent dwelling place(?). because, the Master empowered them with the Holy Spirit, that was why they were able to cast out demons.

The 12 all had the Holy Spirit, but he wasn't indwelling as at then.

The authority is the Holy Spirit sir.

Good. He was given to them just to do miracles. That didn't make them new creatures. That didn't guarantee them salvation. It only gave them the right to do what Jesus was doing.

[quote author=GodsMopol post=57750262][/quote]
You can make mistakes but you won't live in it. These people didn't lose their salvation. They were abusing grace.
Paul doesn't know the heart, only God does.
I can stand infront of you and say the sinners prayer after you to get me born again. But deep down my heart, I'm not receiving Jesus because I am not ready to repent.
After saying it, I will now be under you care. You will be teaching me for a long time and yet I have still not received Christ. To you im born again. But to God, I'm not.

Im not saying that was what these people were. But there could be a probability that they were that type.

Junia:

Good. He was given to them just to do miracles. That didn't make them new creatures. That didn't guarantee them salvation. It only gave them the right to do what Jesus was doing.

Okay sir. I leave it at that.

Junia:

A new creation cannot leave the fold. He has no desire to do so because it is Christ living in Him.

Understand the content of the prodigal son. Jesus used it to inform sinners to return to the Father because He will accept them.
The prodigal son wasn't a new creation.

You are twisting the scriptures.
The prodigal son describes the state of man when we were created. We left because of Adam. And now we can return because of Jesus.
Remember, Jesus was not yet dead and risen. So there was nothing like a new creation.

When you fornicate as a believer and the trumphet sounds, you will still make Heaven because you still have faith in God.
We sin but we don't live in sin.
Imagine a believer dressing nicely and an unbeliever lusts after him or her. The believr has actually sinned unknowingly because the unbeliever wouldnt lust if not for him or her. That doesn't make you lose your salvation.
Look at Moses, Samson and Solomon. They sinned before dieing. Will they go to hell ?? No, because they were not living in sin and also they trusted in God.

No believer turns back.
Remember Jesus said no one can pluck His own from His hands.
Also there are those who enter the sheepfold by not using the door (Jesus).
They are just religious people. When difficulties come, they turn their back.

Lol. You are forgetting there are two sons of the same Father, if the prodigal is referring to the lost sinner from Adam, who was the Son who stayed home obeying the father?

Jesus was talking about sons, one remained obedient, one backslide but came back.

Jesus wants us to know that, if we sin and fall away, our father will receive us back IF we return.

What if we don't return.

OLAADEGBU:


How so?

I
Don't have much time now
But,let me ask you.can Christ die for us again?
I don't think so.exspect one is not truely saved at first.
What He did was once and for all.QED.
our problem has been mixing His Kingdom with Eternal Life.one demands works and the latter is free.

analice107:

Lol. You are forgetting there are two sons of the same Father, if the prodigal is referring to the lost sinner from Adam, who was the Son who stayed home obeying the father?

Jesus was talking about sons, one remained obedient, one backslide but came back.

Jesus wants us to know that, if we sin and fall away, our father will receive us back IF we return.

What if we don't return.

You are right. But note this, if you are indeed a son, you will surely return. Its religious christians who don't return because they are actually not enjoying it.
I have been one before, but I felt empty. I realised I couldn't live without being a Christian. Though I was sinning, the Holy Spirit kept telling me who I actually was and brought me back safely.

If you are a son, you will surely return no matter how you backslide.

Junia:


The fact that Judas was with Jesus doesn't mean he was saved.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.


None of them was saved because Jesus has not died yet.

In respect to the bold, you mean the dumb from birth won't be saved?

Junia:


Its conditional.
You believe, you receive

If by believing you receive what then do you get by unbelieving? Are you saying once you believe it is no longer possible to disbelief again? If the condition to receive is based on believing then does it not follow that the moment one is no longer a believer he/she loses that gift?

Once saved always saved is from the devil himself.

Why would the coming of Jesus be like a thief and the call all through the scriptures to be ready at all times?

Junia:


No.
No apostate was first of all a Christian. They are just pretenders. Go and ask them the reason they renounced their faith, you would wonder if they have read the bible before.

Do you know the meaning of the word "Apostate?" Are you saying apostates mean pretenders? You can only renounce a faith you once had not one you pretended to have.

GodsMopol:


what differentiate a Christian from a sinner

A Christian has no sin in him

A sinner has sin in him, so a Christian can't lose his salvation as long as they are not sinning. And sin means a conscious act of sin, not the one a preacher would say because I killed a rat when I have sinned, or because I use raid in my house, then, I have killed. Not that kind of sin, sin to me means, knowing what is good and not doing it.

You got a point there. The moment a Christian sins he/she becomes a sinner. A Christian is not a sinner and a sinner is not a Christian.

Zeddicuz:


D concept of once saved,always saved is erroneous and a teaching exhumed from d deepest part of hell to deceive undiscerning christians so they can revel in the illusion till they die and find themselves in hell.
A christian can lose his or her salvation when they Go back into sins,whether sins of omission or commission,and they refuse to repent. its a pity we have so many false teachers who have propagated this teaching like wildfire and have deceived many.
Every heavenly minded believer should daily work out his salvation with fear and trembling.

Way to go!

Junia:


You didn't get me well.
None of them was saved.
They didn't have the Holy Spirit when Jesus was with them.
They received the Spirit on the day of Pentecost.
For the miracles, Jesus gave them the authority to do so.

Says who, you or Christ? When Jesus was with them they had Christ and when Jesus was taken away they were left with His anointing. Do you know who the anointed One and His anointing is?

Junia:


Good. He was given to them just to do miracles. That didn't make them new creatures. That didn't guarantee them salvation. It only gave them the right to do what Jesus was doing.

Jesus did not just send out His disciples to perform miracles He sent them out to win souls into the Kingdom of God. Why would Jesus send out sinners to convert other sinners to the Kingdom of heaven?

jnrbayano:

In respect to the bold, you mean the dumb from birth won't be saved?

I don't know how they would do it. But they can speak in their own way.

Junia:


You can make mistakes but you won't live in it. These people didn't lose their salvation. They were abusing grace.
Paul doesn't know the heart, only God does.

Anyone can make mistakes that doesn't make one a sinner it is committing sin that makes one a sinner.

Junia:


I can stand infront of you and say the sinners prayer after you to get me born again. But deep down my heart, I'm not receiving Jesus because I am not ready to repent.
After saying it, I will now be under you care. You will be teaching me for a long time and yet I have still not received Christ. To you im born again. But to God, I'm not.

Im not saying that was what these people were. But there could be a probability that they were that type.

How then do you know that all who made a confession of Jesus as their Lord and Saviour but latter went back to sin were no saved in the first place?

OLAADEGBU:


If by believing you receive what then do you get by unbelieving? Are you saying once you believe it is no longer possible to disbelief again? If the condition to receive is based on believing then does it not follow that the moment one is no longer a believer he/she loses that gift?

It is possible to disbelief.
I think I meed to be enlightened more on this topics.

ichuka:
I

Don't have much time now
But,let me ask you.can Christ die for us again?
I don't think so.exspect one is not truely saved at first.
What He did was once and for all.QED.
our problem has been mixing His Kingdom with Eternal Life.one demands works and the latter is free.

What is your understanding of what the Lord said in Revelation 2:4-5?

OLAADEGBU:


Says who, you or Christ? When Jesus was with them they had Christ and when Jesus was taken away they were left with His anointing. Do you know who the anointed One and His anointing is?

Some were still doubting of He was the Messiah

OLAADEGBU:


Jesus did not just send out His disciples to perform miracles He sent them out to win souls into the Kingdom of God. Why would Jesus send out sinners to convert other sinners to the Kingdom of heaven?

Yh its. true. But they were actually living double lives. They please God sometimes and displease Him sometimes.

So I can conclude that they were saved for the fact that they believed Jesus sometimes and followed His instructions.

But sometimes too, they choose to displease God.

OLAADEGBU:


Anyone can make mistakes that doesn't make one a sinner it is committing sin that makes one a sinner.



How then do you know that all who made a confession of Jesus as their Lord and Saviour but latter went back to sin were no saved in the first place?

My point is maybe they didn't believe what they were doing with their heart.

This topic is needs more enlightenment

Junia:

I don't know how they would do it. But they can speak in their own way.

Hahahaha you don't know again?

Okay. Do you wanna know?

Junia:

I don't know how they would do it. But they can speak in their own way.

Hahahaha you don't know again?

Okay. Do you wanna know?

If you like confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord till eternity and your life does not respond to the faith which you confess (works of faith or works of charity or love), my brother, nothing like "you are saved" for you.

jnrbayano:


Hahahaha you don't know again?

Okay. Do you wanna know?

If you like confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord till eternity and your life does not respond to the faith which you confess (works of faith or works of charity or love), my brother, nothing like "you are saved" for you.

The Bible didn't end with confessing. It includes believing. Adding works to your faith is what shows you believe.