earthrealm:



thnks for the offer of the cable, know as you can see from my story below.--- would not be needing it again
do you know if same happens using the bluetooth connection??.

in other news...my respect for epsolar jumped by leaps and bounds today.
so my offgrid villa setup.. was informed that it barely lasts 30mins...and goes off. since last sunday...there was no one i trusted to help me troubleshoot, so i didnt bother doing any serious trouble shooting. just had them check the 60amp ep solar CC and they confirmed it was dead.. no lights blank screen etc.

i assumed the cc had packed up...was wondering what would have killed it....no clues
so i had to buy a 60amp fangpusun cc from JUO and made the trip to villa.
there i observed that negative cable from cc to battery had somehow disconnected from the crimping...thus the cable wasnt connected...and the battery wasnt being charged by my 1500w panels...

the cables from the panels being connected...i feared the worst that the cc would have got burnt, cos morning star and some other cc expressly stated that connecting the solar panels without hooking up the battery will destroy the cc, as the cc wouldnt hv anywhere to divert the solar harvest.
to my pleasant suprise,, i crimped the cable properly and connected it to the battery.....and the cc roared to life!
ran through further checks..and everything was functioning ok,
now i have a redundant 60amp fangpusun cc on my hands +the bluetooth dongle which i have bought on amazon [enroute].
simply amazing!..epsolar mppt cc rocks

my take is that epsolar using the radiator fins for cooling..unlike other makes that use a small fan powered by the battery...the fins were able to keep the cc cool and prevent it from over heating and burning up...unlike the fan models which since the batt cable wasnt connected..the fans would not have been working..thus nothing to cool the cc, and it would overheat and burn.

pls confirm if the bluetooth cable will face the same problem as the usb cable.....lemme know if i will cancel the amazon order asap.
equalization is only necessary for flooded batteries abi?...so anyone running sealed batts would not have this issue

A wonderful plus to epsolar. This will make the cc rise in price soon cos marketers will cites it as truly rugged.

please, anybody has any idea about Multipower inverters...? heard its a brand of Sukam

idsolar:
Pls house ur view/first hand experience on:

1. Monbat battery
2. Genus inverter

Nagode

no personal experience though.. but I know two people that have used theirs about 6years (3.5kva specifically)

one later had issue with charging. the inverter no longer charges the battery

the other one later had issue with back feeding. the inverter output will be back feeding to the input

one common issue with both was that the screens went blind

that's all I know... but I think they're rugged

mcTrinity:
please, anybody has any idea about Multipower inverters...? heard its a brand of Sukam

Neither of mopower, multipower is a brand of sukam!!! I have spoken to sukam reps and they totally deny such claim which seem to have become gospel even on here. Mopower is some clone of sukam made to ride on the reputation of the latter.

bigrovar:
Neither of mopower, multipower is a brand of sukam!!! I have spoken to sukam reps and they totally deny such claim which seem to have become gospel even on here. Mopower is some clone of sukam made to ride on the reputation of the latter.

I appreciate the contribution...

but why does Mopower inverters bear Sukam logo on them.?
I've even seen the DSP board of mopower 5kva and it bears on it that Sukam "S"-like logo on it. in addition to the one on the external body of the inverter

bigrovar:


One of the things I learned while cutting my teeth as a sysadmin is the kiss principle. Keep It Simple Stupid. Same thing applies to offgrid solar. What you are proposing is very complicated and frankly is more hassle with a negative net benefit overall. The problem with low wattage device is they are also low voltage, which means even if a 12v leave the battery before it gets to the led bulb its has lost some voltages to resistance so only about 10 or 11v gets to the led. add that to the issues of fusing and breakers and how much of a mess your connection would be. Then there is the issue of using dc to dc converters which will still lead to conversion loss u were running from...

Inverters are not has bad as u are making, there are units which are 95% efficient and would serve just fine. when u compare the amount of money spent and watts lost to resistance. the former is a better option.

I run my DC security lights on auto. Without any further wiring or installation of timer switches, my security lights all come on and go off when due, year round. To forestall voltage drop, they're 24V floodlights (some are even PIR activated, to save power). Hybrids have their place.

kiekie1:


No doubts , mine has been working for 3 yrs counting and no issues ... Guess you have a penchant for fangpuson tho

naaah, wanted to try something new.
started with morning star 45amp cc, after it got back..and i have been unable to send it in for waranty repairs [5yr waranty], got the 60amp epsolar from you, wanted to try something new, as epsolar is lacking in some display parameters, which my beloved MS had...
wish epsolar would make their display data more robust as morning star or victron

earthrealm:


naaah, wanted to try something new.
started with morning star 45amp cc, after it got back..and i have been unable to send it in for waranty repairs [5yr waranty], got the 60amp epsolar from you, wanted to try something new, as epsolar is lacking in some display parameters, which my beloved MS had...
wish epsolar would make their display data more robust as morning star or victron

Good morning , good to know dear !

Jamzig1:

That being said.. how about having an Hybrid distribution where both AC and DC are being used... DC to power low wattage and critical loads like LED lights, DC fans and Charging outlets.. CCTV and alarm sensor too which requires constant supply.. then leave the other heavy loads to the AC. Doing this would make you switch on the Inverter only when you need to power these heavy loads. Remember Inverters have self consumption energy which is quite a loss when calculated around the clock.

It actually makes sense to reduce conversion losses but not practical yet due to lack of appliances and codes /standards and switchgear -
The problem of arcing in DC system is very predominant and needs to be addressed to meet safety requirements while improving the efficiency of the system

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/5543501/
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7286585/

Abstract:
In this paper, loss of a dc microgrid system for the residential complex is compared with the loss in an ac system. Each system has a PV system, a gas engine cogeneration and 20 residential houses. The losses are calculated from measured load data and PV output data which was estimated from global solar radiation and temperature of a PV panel. The operation of the gas engine cogeneration is determined from the heat demands. As house loads, we consider an air conditioner, a refrigerator, a washing machine and a liquid crystal display (LCD) in each house. The loss calculation result shows the total losses in the dc system are around 15 % lower than the losses in the ac system

kiekie1:


Good morning , good to know dear !

the epsolar remote display, do you know if it displays other extra harvest parameters.
like i need daily log of solar harvest in kwh or ah,
suprisingly epsolar didnt include it and other stuff in the display screen on the unit
i mean the MT 50
do you have it in stock?..how much are you selling it..if yes

earthrealm:


the epsolar remote display, do you know if it displays other extra harvest parameters.
like i need daily log of solar harvest in kwh or ah,
suprisingly epsolar didnt include it and other stuff in the display screen on the unit
i mean the MT 50
do you have it in stock?..how much are you selling it..if yes

I have them available ..
Brand new mt50 - 13k
Fairly new A series 12-24v 40a mppt with mt50 .. 1 unit remaining !

What's app : 08135031951

kiekie1:


I have them available ..
Brand new mt50 - 13k
Fairly new A series 12-24v 40a mppt with mt50 .. 1 unit remaining !

What's app : 08135031951

Good, though you didnt confirm if it displays extra /info that the primary unit doesnt show, thats what am interested in

earthrealm:


Good, though you didnt confirm if it displays extra /info that the primary unit doesnt show, thats what am interested in

That's the main reason why its been sold and installed via com port ... Reach me privately via my mobile num in profile . I was thinking you have gone through the manual or YouTube config clips

kiekie1:


I have them available ..
Brand new mt50 - 13k
Fairly new A series 12-24v 40a mppt with mt50 .. 1 unit remaining !

What's app : 08135031951

hw mach ?

mcTrinity:


I appreciate the contribution...

but why does Mopower inverters bear Sukam logo on them.?
I've even seen the DSP board of mopower 5kva and it bears on it that Sukam "S"-like logo on it. in addition to the one on the external body of the inverter

Anyone can clone another.. They probably source their components from same source as sukam Ala Fangpusun outback / victron. But they have no association with sukam whatsoever. At least sukam guys totally denied them.

Hi guys.
I read this section from time to time. Was wondering on how to go about starting off with solar power. What is(are) the best company(ies) out there in terms of reliability, plus what are the costs involved for a mid level to elaborate installation.

Electrical items such as fridge, freezer, tv, washing machine (?), light and so.

The last time I checked the MT50 remote display does not connect natively to the 60a EP Solar Etracer CC - the data connection interfaces are not directly compatible - perhaps you could rig something up thougjh.

I have seen the MT50 working well with the lower amperage EP Solar CCs but never the 60a - you should do some further research to be sure

earthrealm:


the epsolar remote display, do you know if it displays other extra harvest parameters.
like i need daily log of solar harvest in kwh or ah,
suprisingly epsolar didnt include it and other stuff in the display screen on the unit
i mean the MT 50
do you have it in stock?..how much are you selling it..if yes

Bros you were only lucky that your PV array at ~1500w was well within the current clamp safe limits of your EP Solar or else the negative cable disconnection from its crimp happened during the low sunlight hours.

Disconnect the CC from battery while your array is pushing like 3000w through and you will surely release the magic smoke

This speaks to something I had mentioned earlier - CC fault tolerance is much reduced with large or oversized arrays - the only MorningStar CC I ever managed to brick blew up when the 100a DC breaker between the battery and CC suddenly tripped while the CC was putting 3000w/~54amps * 56volts into my batteries around 2pm - I had a 4.5kw PV array at the time.

From that day forward, I use only manual disconnects or heavily overrated fuse blocks between CC and battery - it was a truly expensive lesson at ~250k replacement cost for a new 60a Morningstar CC.

All said you should reconsider your crimping method/tools - it is very unusual for a well made crimp to loosen and disconnect from the cable.

earthrealm:


in other news...my respect for epsolar jumped by leaps and bounds today.
so my offgrid villa setup.. was informed that it barely lasts 30mins...and goes off. since last sunday...there was no one i trusted to help me troubleshoot, so i didnt bother doing any serious trouble shooting. just had them check the 60amp ep solar CC and they confirmed it was dead.. no lights blank screen etc.

i assumed the cc had packed up...was wondering what would have killed it....no clues
so i had to buy a 60amp fangpusun cc from JUO and made the trip to villa.
there i observed that negative cable from cc to battery had somehow disconnected from the crimping...thus the cable wasnt connected...and the battery wasnt being charged by my 1500w panels...

the cables from the panels being connected...i feared the worst that the cc would have got burnt, cos morning star and some other cc expressly stated that connecting the solar panels without hooking up the battery will destroy the cc, as the cc wouldnt hv anywhere to divert the solar harvest.
to my pleasant suprise,, i crimped the cable properly and connected it to the battery.....and the cc roared to life!
ran through further checks..and everything was functioning ok,
now i have a redundant 60amp fangpusun cc on my hands +the bluetooth dongle which i have bought on amazon [enroute].
simply amazing!..epsolar mppt cc rocks

*my take is that epsolar using the radiator fins for cooling..unlike other makes that use a small fan powered by the battery...the fins were able to keep the cc cool and prevent it from over heating and burning up...unlike the fan models which since the batt cable wasnt connected..the fans would not have been working..thus nothing to cool the cc, and it would overheat and burn.*

pls confirm if the bluetooth cable will face the same problem as the usb cable.....lemme know if i will cancel the amazon order asap.
equalization is only necessary for flooded batteries abi?...so anyone running sealed batts would not have this issue

NiyiOmoIyunade:
The last time I checked the MT50 remote display does not connect natively to the 60a EP Solar Etracer CC - the data connection interfaces are not directly compatible - perhaps you could rig something up thougjh.

I have seen the MT50 working well with the lower amperage EP Solar CCs but never the 60a - you should do some further research to be sure

nice observation about the MT 50, will do further research though kiekie has both, so he can help us confirm

yeah, the crimping was a bit rough.
your theory about an oversized array....hmmmmm
from the logs...it disconnected about noon and was disconnected for 1wk...was smelling a lil burnt--wch made me loose hope initially.

your MS, how many minutes was it disconnected?..want to have an idea how long it took to burn out

As the battery DC breaker dey trip na im I dey hear gboa!!!

It was virtually instantaneous - my batteries and CC are placed on the balcony and I happened to be on the balcony with two friends when it happened.

Quickly switched off the solar input breaker but every attempt to switch on the breaker between battery and CC to restart the CC na that electronic crackle/sizzle with some fire coming out of the CC na im we dey see.

Both the EP Solar and Morninngstar manual recommend to not disconnect the CC from battery while power from the PV array is coming in - since the CC cannot be powered off solar input there will be no way to invoke the electronic protections of the CC.

Before that fateful day I had carelessly switched off the battery breaker while solar input (no more than 20amps at 48v) was still active - you would hear a 'pop' but no damage - I was lucky then because I was switching off to do some sort of maintenance and it was always early morning or late evening when little power was coming in from the sun.

The burnt smell from your CC was probably not the CC but partial contact from the crimped wire that eventually came loose.

earthrealm:


nice observation about the MT 50, will do further research though kiekie has both, so he can help us confirm

yeah, the crimping was a bit rough.
your theory about an oversized array....hmmmmm
from the logs...it disconnected about noon and was disconnected for 1wk...was smelling a lil burnt--wch made me loose hope initially.

your MS, how many minutes was it disconnected?..want to have an idea how long it took to burn out

earthrealm:


nice observation about the MT 50, will do further research though kiekie has both, so he can help us confirm

yeah, the crimping was a bit rough.
your theory about an oversized array....hmmmmm
from the logs...it disconnected about noon and was disconnected for 1wk...was smelling a lil burnt--wch made me loose hope initially.

your MS, how many minutes was it disconnected?..want to have an idea how long it took to burn out

BlackBaron:
Hi guys.
I read this section from time to time. Was wondering on how to go about starting off with solar power. What is(are) the best company(ies) out there in terms of reliability, plus what are the costs involved for a mid level to elaborate installation.

Electrical items such as fridge, freezer, tv, washing machine (?), light and so.

Call /whatapp 08117398294 for affordable quote n proffesional install

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Bros you were only lucky that your PV array at ~1500w was well within the current clamp safe limits of your EP Solar or else the negative cable disconnection from its crimp happened during the low sunlight hours.

Disconnect the CC from battery while your array is pushing like 3000w through and you will surely release the magic smoke

This speaks to something I had mentioned earlier - CC fault tolerance is much reduced with large or oversized arrays - the only MorningStar CC I ever managed to brick blew up when the 100a DC breaker between the battery and CC suddenly tripped while the CC was putting 3000w/~54amps * 56volts into my batteries around 2pm - I had a 4.5kw PV array at the time.

From that day forward, I use only manual disconnects or heavily overrated fuse blocks between CC and battery - it was a truly expensive lesson at ~250k replacement cost for a new 60a Morningstar CC.

All said you should reconsider your crimping method/tools - it is very unusual for a well made crimp to loosen and disconnect from the cable.

He was lucky there wasn't enough power from the panels to fry the cc. The 1500w was within the range of safe zone to allow the transistor to disconnect the PV. This is not about brand, if you had pumped in 1500w @24v the cc will fry. I have destroyed more than 3 cc like that. Please be safe

JUO:
He was lucky there wasn't enough power from the panels to fry the cc. The 1500w was within the range of safe zone to allow the transistor to disconnect the PV. This is not about brand, if you had pumped in 1500w @24v the cc will fry. I have destroyed more than 3 cc like that. Please be safe

HMMMM that implies undersizing the array has some benefits.
on the manual epsolar states the 60amp cc can handle 1600w @ 24v, i have 1500w panels, and the max instantenous harvest i hv seen is 1290w & 43amps...on a super hot/sunny day, and have been toying with adding an additional 500w panel, so factoring in losses and all..i wud still be within the 1600w range,
as e be so..may hv to pause a bit

There is nothing wrong with oversizing your array within the safe limits - its just that oversizing implies you are an expert/professional who thoroughly knows what he is doing - CC fault tolerance usually reduces as currents and voltages increase.

So there is little or no forgiveness of sins/mistakes if you oversize or hypervolt - e.g. for EP Solar with a 3kw array at 48v you can reverse polarity on the CC input without damage but if you make that same mistake with a greater than 4.5kw array - very likely the CC will not forgive that mistake and punish you by releasing the proverbial magic smoke - but if you do it right you can safely oversize your array up to 6kw in a 48v system

When you oversize just be going slow and steady thinking each step through and making measurements and confirming polarity at each stage before making any connections

earthrealm:


HMMMM that implies undersizing the array has some benefits.
on the manual epsolar states the 60amp cc can handle 1600w @ 24v, i have 1500w panels, and the max instantenous harvest i hv seen is 1290w & 43amps...on a super hot/sunny day, and have been toying with adding an additional 500w panel, so factoring in losses and all..i wud still be within the 1600w range,
as e be so..may hv to pause a bit

earthrealm:


HMMMM that implies undersizing the array has some benefits.
on the manual epsolar states the 60amp cc can handle 1600w @ 24v, i have 1500w panels, and the max instantenous harvest i hv seen is 1290w & 43amps...on a super hot/sunny day, and have been toying with adding an additional 500w panel, so factoring in losses and all..i wud still be within the 1600w range,
as e be so..may hv to pause a bit

oversizing will not fry the cc, so you are free add more 500w and you stand to get more, extend battery life, hit 50a before 10am. Believe me you will never see 60a even at peak, that is one of the things I don't like about epsolar. But you can get 1800w if you modify the cc

NiyiOmoIyunade:
As the battery DC breaker dey trip na im I dey hear gboa!!!

It was virtually instantaneous - my batteries and CC are placed on the balcony and I happened to be on the balcony with two friends when it happened.

Quickly switched off the solar input breaker but every attempt to switch on the breaker between battery and CC to restart the CC na that electronic crackle/sizzle with some fire coming out of the CC na im we dey see.

Both the EP Solar and Morninngstar manual recommend to not disconnect the CC from battery while power from the PV array is coming in - since the CC cannot be powered off solar input there will be no way to invoke the electronic protections of the CC.

........

A Midnite Classic I supervise survived a similar experience. Kept working. Only noticed the problem because the PV voltage was unusually high and the output was zero, as if it were on standby. Lucky thing

JUO:
oversizing will not fry the cc, so you are free to add more 500w and you stand to get more, extend battery life, hit 50a before 10am. Believe me, you will never see 60a even at peak, that is one of the things I don't like about solar. But you can get 1800w if you modify the cc

No amount of oversizing should fry a MPPT CC unless you exceed the VoC. The CC limits the output current to its max rating. Although it is not a good idea to run CC at max current rating as the ratings are usually 40 /45 DEG ambient. and in Nigeria, we can exceed that in closed spaces

The morningstar is notorious for frying on battery breaker trip as it's Transient surge rating is very low. The correct way to restore the system in such a situation is to trip the PV breaker - Allow the CC to cool down and dissipate the residual charge ( usually 5-10 min) switch on battery breaker wait for a minute and then PV breakers one at a time
It is also a good idea to set the battery voltage to fixed value instead of autodetecting especially for 24 and 48 V systems as the CC can be set to a wrong value if you switch on battery and PV in rapid succession


reference -- Quote "
https://www.morningstarcorp.com/advantages-morningstars-dc-coupling-vs-ac-coupling-whitepaper/

You can size Morningstar’s MPPT controllers well above the Maximum Nominal Solar PV Input rating without damaging the controller and without the charging current exceeding the maximum output current rating. The controller can limit output current and will run at 100% of rated current output and not higher. The controller was designed with this power-shaving capability and when oversized it does not void the warranty.” – Tech Article – “Morningstar’s TrakStar™ MPPT Technology & Maximum Input Power”

pranil:


No amount of oversizing should fry a MPPT CC unless you exceed the VoC. The CC limits the output current to its max rating. Although it is not a good idea to run CC at max current rating as the ratings are usually 40 /45 DEG ambient. and in Nigeria, we can exceed that in closed spaces

The morningstar is notorious for frying on battery breaker trip as it's Transient surge rating is very low. The correct way to restore the system in such a situation is to trip the PV breaker - Allow the CC to cool down and dissipate the residual charge ( usually 5-10 min) switch on battery breaker wait for a minute and then PV breakers one at a time
It is also a good idea to set the battery voltage to fixed value instead of autodetecting especially for 24 and 48 V systems as the CC can be set to a wrong value if you switch on battery and PV in rapid succession


reference -- Quote "
https://www.morningstarcorp.com/advantages-morningstars-dc-coupling-vs-ac-coupling-whitepaper/

You can size Morningstar’s MPPT controllers well above the Maximum Nominal Solar PV Input rating without damaging the controller and without the charging current exceeding the maximum output current rating. The controller can limit output current and will run at 100% of rated current output and not higher. The controller was designed with this power-shaving capability and when oversized it does not void the warranty.” – Tech Article – “Morningstar’s TrakStar™ MPPT Technology & Maximum Input Power”

Very elaborate & articulate ! Well-done Sir

Oga Pranil, verily, verily, I say unto you, all Controllers are not created equal - you can safely oversize the Morningstar multiple times over the rated PV wattage - although anything over 200% overrating, I would struggle to see the benefit and call it inefficient design.

For the EP Solar E-Tracer series, the manual states the Maximum PV Array Size = LBatt * VmP where LBatt is the maximum battery charging current and VmP is the PV maximum power point voltage. For the 60a EP Solar eTracer used in a 48v nominal battery setup with the common MPPT 3 x 3 config (3 pieces 24v nominal panels in series), that would yield LBatt 60amps * VmP 115volts = 6,900w as the maximum PV array to use (I think the manual specs 6,300w sef) - because there is some play around what the VmP may be for different panels, to be safe I would stop around 6,000W PV array size .

I have no knowledge whatsoever of Midnite because I don't like it and have never used it - a pet beef you might say I will let the users and pros tell us what the maximum safe PV over size is if any.

Between, how do you paste pictures so that they stay in the body of the text? I have tried the [img] [/img] tags but only succeeded once - I want to paste an excerpt from the EP Solar manual just like you did.

pranil:


No amount of oversizing should fry a MPPT CC unless you exceed the VoC. The CC limits the output current to its max rating. Although it is not a good idea to run CC at max current rating as the ratings are usually 40 /45 DEG ambient. and in Nigeria, we can exceed that in closed spaces

The morningstar is notorious for frying on battery breaker trip as it's Transient surge rating is very low. The correct way to restore the system in such a situation is to trip the PV breaker - Allow the CC to cool down and dissipate the residual charge ( usually 5-10 min) switch on battery breaker wait for a minute and then PV breakers one at a time
It is also a good idea to set the battery voltage to fixed value instead of autodetecting especially for 24 and 48 V systems as the CC can be set to a wrong value if you switch on battery and PV in rapid succession


reference -- Quote "
https://www.morningstarcorp.com/advantages-morningstars-dc-coupling-vs-ac-coupling-whitepaper/

You can size Morningstar’s MPPT controllers well above the Maximum Nominal Solar PV Input rating without damaging the controller and without the charging current exceeding the maximum output current rating. The controller can limit output current and will run at 100% of rated current output and not higher. The controller was designed with this power-shaving capability and when oversized it does not void the warranty.” – Tech Article – “Morningstar’s TrakStar™ MPPT Technology & Maximum Input Power”

Please I need an assistant on how to protect my inverter from lightning strike through the solar panels.

bisi12004:
Please I need an assistant on how to protect my inverter from lightning strike through the solar panels.

Simply Contact me for the Mnspd DC 115/300 @ discounted price ...

Smartcell global services
081-350-31951

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Oga Pranil, verily, verily, I say unto you, all Controllers are not created equal - you can safely oversize the Morningstar multiple times over the rated PV wattage - although anything over 200% overrating, I would struggle to see the benefit and call it inefficient design.

For the EP Solar E-Tracer series, the manual states the Maximum PV Array Size = LBatt * VmP where LBatt is the maximum battery charging current and VmP is the PV maximum power point voltage. For the 60a EP Solar eTracer used in a 48v nominal battery setup with the common MPPT 3 x 3 config (3 pieces 24v nominal panels in series), that would yield LBatt 60amps * VmP 115volts = 6,900w as the maximum PV array to use (I think the manual specs 6,300w sef) - because there is some play around what the VmP may be for different panels, to be safe I would stop around 6,000W PV array size .

I have no knowledge whatsoever of Midnite because I don't like it and have never used it - a pet beef you might say I will let the users and pros tell us what the maximum safe PV over size is if any.

Between, how do you paste pictures so that they stay in the body of the text? I have tried the [img] [/img] tags but only succeeded once - I want to paste an excerpt from the EP Solar manual just like you did.

I just use the image tab but my images are from Windows snip utility that may be the reason. I just posted EPSOLAR also in my post and although not explicitly stated about oversizing they do mention Overcurrent protection.

Please remember this is not applicable to PWM models but only MPPT .

one more interesting read specifically on pV oversizing by morningstar

https://www.morningstarcorp.com/whitepapers/morningstars-trakstar-mppt-technology-maximum-input-power/