shadeyinka:


What is a vision?

Isn't it the spiritual brought to the persception of the physical senses?

Now as an atheist, it shouldn't make any sense to you. You don't believe in spirits, do you?

Either way, it is either you believe in spirits and renounce atheism or reject spirits and remain as you are. You seem confused

We are discussing bible Mr . Am coming down to your level because am not a stranger to the Christian holy book. answer this simple question

Is a Vision the same as Reality ?

shadeyinka:


I only discussed scriptures with you because I assumed you were JW. I don't usually discuss scriptures with atheists

You don't discuss with atheist, didnt your Bible says its the will of God that all sort of people be saved ?

Modern christianity is a joke

However, I'll be very brief to make an exception.

Question1:
The Kingdom of God (in context) is after resurrection else, there is no need of resurrection of the dead.

that means nobody go to heaven when they die . we are gradually getting there .

Question 2:
Same as question 1.
The righteous are in a special place (called Abraham's bosom). Which means, the place where Abraham is!

you are trying to prove smart

Smiling, again what is Abraham Bosom ? if I say Shadeyinka bosom , what do I mean?

1 Peter 3:18–19 says,
“Christ also suffered once for sins, the ri The word spirit refers to Christ’s spirit. The contrast is between His flesh and spirit, and not between Christ’s flesh and the Holy Spirit. Christ’s flesh died, but His spirit remained alive.

Confuse fellow, calm down Pastor

it says in 1 Pet 3 vs 18

being put to death in the flesh, but made alive
in the spirit;

what does it mean to be made alive in the bible ? Resurrected!
So he didn't operate a ghost mode, he died and didn't do anything until he was made alive 3 days after

The Evil also have their place HeHell ESV calls it a prison. Not the Lake of Fire!)

that is a lie, that peter said the spirits in prison are those disobedient in the days of Noah NOT every evil people.

Does it mean all evil people don't go to the same place as taught in Christianity ?

clearly some are isolated from another .

You also said Angels are spirit being, could this be reffering to Angels of Noah's day in the bible ?

Solve this. because if those spirits are humans according to you it means not all evil people go to the same place . a blow to church teaching

Ps115:17
Refers to the Carcass or Corpse

Understand scriptures in context

pastor so dead = Carcass , then when your Bible said the dead stand at the throne of God , it means ordinary carcass stand at the throne of God ?

Fake news Fake news Fake news

Peacefullove:


Please what is rapture ? am interested

Word Rapture is not an English word but its a Greek word harpazo and Latin Rapturo. It literally means “to snatch out” or “to seize.” It's like a thief grabbing a purse. He seizes it.
The expression used in the English Bible is "Caught up".

Good News Translation 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

The Lord's Coming.

Our friends, we want you to know the truth about those who have died, so that you will not be sad, as are those who have no hope.

We believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will take back with Jesus those who have died believing in him.

What we are teaching you now is the Lord's teaching: we who are alive on the day the Lord comes will not go ahead of those who have died.

There will be the shout of command, the archangel's voice, the sound of God's trumpet, and the Lord himself will come down from heaven.

Those who have died believing in Christ will rise to life first; then we who are living at that time will be caught up along with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

And so we will always be with the Lord. So then, encourage one another with these words.

701ecilana:

JW are closet atheists. They are materialists. They don't believe in the supernatural realm.

How does one believe in God but doesn't believe in the afterlife?

I have not really given the after life part much thought. Thanks for the eye opening

701ecilana:


Word Rapture is not an English word but its a Greek word harpazo and Latin Rapturo. It literally means “to snatch out” or “to seize.” It's like a thief grabbing a purse. He seizes it.
The expression used in the English Bible is "Caught up".

Good News Translation 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

The Lord's Coming.

Our friends, we want you to know the truth about those who have died, so that you will not be sad, as are those who have no hope.

We believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will take back with Jesus those who have died believing in him.

What we are teaching you now is the Lord's teaching: we who are alive on the day the Lord comes will not go ahead of those who have died.

There will be the shout of command, the archangel's voice, the sound of God's trumpet, and the Lord himself will come down from heaven.

Those who have died believing in Christ will rise to life first;

Please if the dead are already alive in heaven, who else are those in Christ that will rise to life ?

then we who are living at that time will be caught up along with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

And so we will always be with the Lord. So then, encourage one another with these words.

Explain this more in relation to the verse that said FLESH and BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom of God ?

so you guys will be caught up with your flesh, blood , intestines and Oxygen breathing body into space ?

Is that not a bible contradiction

Peacefullove:


and na because them be jw he killed them ? nairaland people sef

Read the op and you will get the point.

dudebuck:
Fake news
Fake news
Fake news

Don't restrict your research only to watchtower publications, I know that's what the gb wants you to do.

Peacefullove:


Have relate with people of various religion but you can't deny They are more decent and their believes make more sense than all these fake miracle healing , Hell fire myth mongers of other Church group . I will rather listen to a Jw than Someone shouting a mythical hell at my door.


are you now planning to just join the league and drop religion all together or You still want to join another church ?

What's important is if you are jw, be aware of what's going on. If you are studying or interested in jw, be aware that all you read in watchtower is not enough for you to make a decision to join or not to join, widen your research. Also know that after baptism, if you disagree you will be shunned by even your family. Jehovah's witnesses don't tell people this before people join them.

https://www./1474402276106899/

Jehovah's Witnesses Suicide Memoriam

Please read and share this article from Washington Post, March 23 2016 :
"I told the truth in my sister's obituary, so that others might choose to live"http://wpo.st/shET1


https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/221220/suicide-how-many-do-you-know-within-jws?page=22

mikeolu1:

Read the op and you will get the point.

I read the Op, but to be serious the writer is an Ex member . So am not suprised at the Twisted article.

I can't stop laughing when he based his entire topic on the fact that these people don't belive in hell , so Suicide is allowed , really ?

From my research, They see Suicide as the same as murder, yet their bible correctly said any murderer will not inherit Gods kingdom. what else ? a foolish jw must have killed himself then , Dont forget killing yourself will mean no paradise.

But mr writer present it as if suicide is a normal thing with no sanctions. infact according to him Suicide to a witness means gateway to Paradise , How could that be if they also belive suicide is murder and murderer's won't inherit God's kingdom ?

He also say this and I quote

" To a Withness having
droughts about his faith, suicide makes perfect
sense. He may reason: “If this organization is a
scam I would rather be dead then live because I
have already invested years of my life; if it is the
true religion I will be raised from the dead and live
in a perfect world”. Suicide for the long time
member has a large upside but no down side."

Can a person who has doubts or droughts about his faith be properly Recognized with the witnesses ? Doesn't such one see the religion as a scam already, so are they still one of them ?

this is why I said Ex members of this group tend to be biased in their writings .

Peacefullove:


Oga , Your Jesus said it was a VISIOn , is a vision not different from reality ? use your head Bro

I am referring to you. I have explained what Vision is in case you don't know. My point it do you believe in vision?

If you do, you must be a religious atheist

Experiences of suicide among Jw

https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/experiences/crumpet.php

Peacefullove:


We are discussing bible Mr . Am coming down to your level because am not a stranger to the Christian holy book. answer this simple question

Is a Vision Real ?

Is vision a hallucination?

Peacefullove:


You don't discuss with atheist, didnt your Bible says its the will of God that all sort of people be saved ?

Modern christianity is a joke



that means nobody go to heaven when they die . we are gradually getting there .



you are trying to prove smart

Smiling, again what is Abraham Bosom ? if I say Shadeyinka bosom , what do I mean?



Confuse fellow, calm down Pastor

it says in 1 Pet 3 vs 18

being put to death in the flesh, but made alive
in the spirit;

what does it mean to be made alive in the bible ? Resurrected!
So he didn't operate a ghost mode, he died and didn't do anything until he was made alive 3 days after



that is a lie, that peter said the spirits in prison are those disobedient in the days of Noah NOT every evil people.

Does it mean all evil people don't go to the same place as taught in Christianity ?

clearly some are isolated from another .

You also said Angels are spirit being, could this be reffering to Angels of Noah's day in the bible ?

Solve this. because if those spirits are humans according to you it means not all evil people go to the same place . a blow to church teaching



pastor so dead = Carcass , then when your Bible said the dead stand at the throne of God , it means ordinary carcass stand at the throne of God ?

Your responses just showed why I don't waste time discussing scriptures with atheists.

Peacefullove:


Please if the dead are already alive in heaven, who else are those in Christ that will rise to life ?



Explain this more in relation to the verse that said FLESH and BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom of God ?

so you guys will be caught up with your flesh, blood , intestines and Oxygen breathing body into space ?

Is that not a bible contradiction

Peacefullove:

Please if the dead are already alive in heaven, who else are those in Christ that will rise to life?

I can't remember saying anywhere that the dead are already in heaven. The dead both good and bad are all awaiting resurrection in Hades. At Rapture the dead shall be raised to stand judgement, those of us who will still be alive shall be Caught up or raptured

Hades is an abode of the dead. Its where the souls of the dead are kept. The bodies remains the graves, buy the souls go to Hades. When Christ died he went there to also minister the gospel to those who didn't know about him.

Good News Translation 1 Peter 3:19-20 and in his spiritual existence he went and preached to the imprisoned spirits.

These were the spirits of those who had not obeyed God when he waited patiently during the days that Noah was building his boat. The few people in the boat—eight in all—were saved by the water.

And, when Christ died on the cross;

Good News Translation Matthew 27:52-53 the graves broke open, and many of God's people who had died were raised to life.

They left the graves, and after Jesus rose from death, they went into the Holy City, where many people saw them.

It will be funny if you'd say the souls of the dead in the above passage was kept in the literal grave made of sand.

Jesus had already informed us that the souls of the dead go to Hades which is in two compartment, Abraham's Bosom and the part which there's torments.
Luke:16:22-23
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luke:16:24
But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Luke:16:25
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luke:16:26

They are all kept in one place which had a gulf dividing them. They see themselves but couldn't cross over.

Peacefullove:

Explain this more in relation to the verse that said FLESH and BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom of God

The bodies we have now is not the same body we shall resurrect with. The Bible tells us that we shall be Changed to a Glorified body. We saw that in Christ the first from the dead, telling Mary Magdalene not to touch him yet. He rose with another body not the one which was torn apart by stripes.

We see what the Scriptures says in
Philippians:3:21

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Again in 1 Cor 15:52-54 the Bible says;

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory..

So, we shall receive a new imperishable body. That body is what we shall use for eternity. Both good and evil.

Peacefullove:

so you guys will be caught up with your flesh, blood , intestines and Oxygen breathing body into space?

Lol. Do you believe that Jesus resurrected? Yes he did. And he did with a glorified body which enabled him to pass through the Walls. He could be intangible or invisible if he wanted to, yet he ate food in that body.

Will you say he didn't have intestines? Didn't Jesus breath after resurrection?

John 21:12-15 Jesus said to them, “Come and eat.” [/b]None of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” because they knew it was the Lord.

So Jesus went over, took the bread, and gave it to them; he did the same with the fish.

This, then, was the third time Jesus appeared to the disciples [b]after he was raised from death. Jesus and Peter After they had eaten, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these others do?” “Yes, Lord,” he answered, “you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Take care of my lambs.”

Maybe you shd check the meaning of contradiction again. Everything you don't understand is not a contradiction. Ask and you shall receive understanding.

Hier:


I have not really given the after life part much thought. Thanks for the eye opening

My dear, interacting with them in this forum opened my eyes to a lot about them.

They believe in God and in resurrection, but deny afterlife.

shadeyinka:


Your responses just showed why I don't waste time discussing scriptures with atheists.

Oh, i never knew he were an atheist. I just wasted my time responding to him.

Dead man.

mikeolu1:

Don't restrict your research only to watchtower publications, I know that's what the gb wants you to do.

These are all fake news! Nobody has ever been hypnotized into being a JW, it is a free world bro. JW are among the happiest people on earth. Even in Russia where they are banned. This your news is complete bunkum, just to exact some revenge against JW for reasons best known to you.

shadeyinka:

Is vision a hallucination?

Sir, i remember the person now, he's not an atheist, he is a muslim.

The follower of a dead terrorist.

mikeolu1:

Read the op and you will get the point.

Pls don't bother with Peacefullove. He is a scornful Muslim. Just ignore him. I went on responding to him before remembering who he is. Islam has no hope in resurrection so he is confused.

Peacefullove:


I read the Op, but to be serious the writer is an Ex member . So am not suprised at the Twisted article.

I can't stop laughing when he based his entire topic on the fact that these people don't belive in hell , so Suicide is allowed , really ?

From my research, They see Suicide as the same as murder, yet their bible correctly said any murderer will not inherit Gods kingdom. what else ? a foolish jw must have killed himself then , Dont forget killing yourself will mean no paradise.

But mr writer present it as if suicide is a normal thing with no sanctions. infact according to him Suicide to a witness means gateway to Paradise , How could that be if they also belive suicide is murder and murderer's won't inherit God's kingdom ?

He also say this and I quote

" To a Withness having
droughts about his faith, suicide makes perfect
sense. He may reason: “If this organization is a
scam I would rather be dead then live because I
have already invested years of my life; if it is the
true religion I will be raised from the dead and live
in a perfect world”. Suicide for the long time
member has a large upside but no down side."

Can a person who has doubts or droughts about his faith be properly Recognized with the witnesses ? Doesn't such one see the religion as a scam already, so are they still one of them ?

this is why I said Ex members of this group tend to be biased in their writings .

JW don't believe in dying and going to Paradise.

701ecilana:

Sir, i remember the person now, he's not an atheist, he is a muslim.

The follower of a dead terrorist.

He speaks as one.
I think it is better really to treat him as one until he declares his stand

shadeyinka:


He speaks as one.
I think it is better really to treat him as one until he declares his stand

Or you can check his profile.

mikeolu1:

You are still drinking the jw cool aid.
You will be liberated some day as well. Thousands have.

Give me something new to drink other than those analyzing what others had done. I have no hold on the thousands that have liberated themselves. You should do likewise. If the organization give you no joy in serving your God, simply get out. Your family shouldn't be a barrier. An individual warned you about this on this platform. Take heed, the signs of the times are here. When next you post tells us that your out of the organization.

701ecilana:

What end time are you expecting biko? You don't believe in Rapture so what end time are you talking about?/

If one of the Jws were to read 2 Timothy 3:1-5. I know you will not believe simply because you know beforehand that they don't believe in rapture. Shaking my head for you. Go and sharpen your reasoning skills.

achorladey:

If one of the Jws were to read 2 Timothy 3:1-5. I know you will not believe simply because you know beforehand that they don't believe in rapture. Shaking my head for you. Go and sharpen your reasoning skills.

What have you now said? Make some sense, not for me but for other readers.

Peacefullove:


and na because them be jw he killed them ? nairaland people sef

Na mikeolu1 need this post pass. To him every suicide equates to an ex-Jw.

701ecilana:

What have you now said? Make some sense, not for me but for other readers.

Oga na you respond to my post, I reply you back. Follow my instruction, go and sharpen your reasoning skills. The answer to your question is delivered already.

achorladey:

Oga na you respond to my post, I reply you back. Follow my instruction, go and sharpen your reasoning skills. The answer to your question is delivered already.

JW

701ecilana:

What have you now said? Make some sense, not for me but for other readers.

You see yourself, why respond to my post in the first place. Your low reasoning skills is unable to discern that you and I are already in the public space. My one reply to your post goes public. Oga this platform no be for private chat. I hope you get the logic now.