lafile, which one be oldest recording? PALLY we're talking thousands of years before ''Jesus''. Horus, whom the ancient Egyptians worshipped as the Son of God, was around something like 4000 years before ''Jesus''. Innumerable statues, papyrri, temple inscriptions, monuments, ancient texts of all shapes, sizes and dates thousands of years before Christ attest to his being the progenitor of the fictional Christ character. And Horus himself was a mythological character. The Egyptians never believed Horus was a real man. He was a 'saviour god'.

Then the latter-day ''Christian fathers'' stole his stories, plus others' and created a character called 'Christ' complete with fictional city 'Nazareth', and other false appurtenances.

Read the amazing correspondences between what we know of Horus, and what we know of the latter day Jesus. In due course, I'll reveal the astonishing confluences between ''Jesus'' and other savior gods like Krishna as well - even Buddha!

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

Let me make this clearer. You claim The Story of Jesus was plagiarized from old greek, hindu and egyptian legends. What proof do you have? How do you know categorically that these stories predate the story of Jesus? What is the earliest recorded mention of these stories? does anyone of them predate the written gospels?

Jen33:

Horus, whom the ancient Egyptians worshipped as the Son of God, was around something like 4000 years before ''Jesus''.

Since your historians know it all and they're so smart about accuracy of dates and scrutiny of witnesses, the best they could offer you for Horus is "around something like" - and for all that, they simply do not know? Walker has found cheap disciples for his tales.

Jen33:

Innumerable statues, papyrri, temple inscriptions, monuments, ancient texts of all shapes, sizes and dates thousands of years before Christ attest to his being the progenitor of the fictional Christ character. And Horus himself was a mythological character. The Egyptians never believed Horus was a real man. He was a 'saviour god'.

Empty claims yet again. How many of these exaggerated "innumerable" statues and papyrii and monuments of "all shapes and sizes" did Walker personally show you?

Jen33:

Then the latter-day ''Christian fathers'' stole his stories, plus others' and created a character called 'Christ' complete with fictional city 'Nazareth', and other false appurtenances.

Another one of those exaggerated claims for cheap minds.

shahan,

you just can't help yourself can you.

you go girl!

@trini_girl

I tire for the bobo. I only wanted to amuse myself on his tales. Anyway, I'm done for the day.

A lot of the textual evidence is not in hardback form in the English language, and is decipherable by specialists such as Egyptologists able to read the ancient Egyptian language of Medu Netr (Hieroglyphs) as well as Greek, Hindi text etc.

So we glean from researchers schooled in the  fields to provide us with what's written in these texts - all
more ancient than the bible new testament stories.

You really need to delve into books rather than expecting the truth to drop on your lap on a forum. But are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and order books and take the time to read them?

No researcher has disputed for instance that Horus shares an amazing number of similarities with Jesus in terms of life story. Experts in Hieroglypphs are not disputing it. Experts in Egyptology and historians recognise that Horus was the Egytptian Son of God whose mother was ISIS MERI.

Horus was baptized by Anup the baptizer and had 12 disciples. etc etc

Oh he also walked on water. These are all in the ancient Egyptian texts like the book of the Coming Forth of the Day, circa 3000 BC. You simply need to read up on research
books that take you through the stories. Many verses from the Bible are virtual verbatim copies of those texts.


Recommended reading:

Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled

http://www.truthbeknown.com/sunsofgod.htm

Egyptian texts and Biblical concepts (These can be seen right now showing links
between text from the Egyptian Book of the Dead etc, and later bible text):

http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/articles/egypt-bible-similarities.html



"How, if you hear that the man newly dead is, like the man newly born, still living man - one same, existent Spirit - will you weep? The end of birth is death; the end of death is birth: this is ordained!" - Bhagavad Gita (The Song Celestial: 2 Indian Krishna texts)

"I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again ,  no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." - NT

The vestiges of pagan religion in Christian symbology are undeniable. ''Egyptian sun disks became the halos of Catholic saints. Pictograms of Isis nursing her miraculously conceived son Horus became the blueprint for our modern images of the Virgin Mary nursing Baby Jesus. And virtually all the elements of the Catholic ritual - the miter, the altar, the doxology, and communion, the act of "God-eating" - were taken directly from earlier pagan mystery religions."

"Nothing in Christianity is original. The pre-Christian God Mithras - called the Son of God and the Light of the World - was born on December 25, died, was buried in a rock tomb, and then resurrected in three days. By the way, December 25 is also the birthday or Osiris, Adonis, and Dionysus. The newborn Krishna was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Even Christianity's weekly holy day was stolen from the pagans."

The Pagan Origins Of Christian Mythology
by Brice C. Smith


The Judeo-Christian religions were founded in a region of the world where savior religions existed for thousands of years. Much of the symbolism and many of the stories in the Bible may be traced to earlier myths of the Persians, Egyptians, and other people from the near east. Under Constantine when the Roman Empire adopted Christianity the festivals and stories were further infused with the traditions of the earlier Roman pagan religion. Constantine himself worshipped both Jesus and the sun god Sol Invitus, the Romanized version of Mithra, until he died. It is, therefore, crucial to the proper understanding of the Bible to understand the influence that these ancient religions had on the early Jews and Christians when they were forming what was to become the Jeudo-Christian tradition.


KRISHNA:

In actuality, the legend of Jesus nearly identically parallels the story of Krishna, for example, even in detail, as was presented by noted mythologist and scholar Gerald Massey over 100 years ago, as well as by Rev. Robert Taylor 160 years ago, among others.3 The Krishna tale as told in the Hindu Vedas has been dated to at least as far back as 1400 B.C.E. The same can be said of the well-woven Horus mythos, which also is practically identical, in detail, to the Jesus story, but which predates the Christian version by thousands of years. (Acharya -The Christ Conspiracy)

Mithra (AMAZING SIMILARITIES WITH CHRISTIANITY)
Among the religions that played large roles in influencing the types of religious beliefs of the ancient near east, Zoroastrianism was probably the must important. Zarathushtra is the Iranian word for Zoroaster who founded this religion in ancient Persia approximately 2000 BCE. In ancient Iranian mythology, Ahura Mazda was the lord of light and wisdom, originally an equal to Mithra the god of light and justice, was elevated to the supreme being by the prophet Zoroaster. The extent to which the writers of the Old and New Testaments were acquainted with the Persians is evident in the numerous references to the Medes and the Persians in the Bible. Mithraism, an off-shoot of Zoroastrianism, holds many striking parallels in symbolism and mythology to the latter Jewish and early Christian writings.

One very interesting addition to the Jewish mythology thought to have been taken from Mithraism is Satan himself. Up to the time of the exile, the source of both good and evil to the Israelites was God. After the exile from Egypt, the doctrine of Mithraism became widely know to the Israelites. Their writings then begin the claim that God is the one God of the universe and that he is a God of righteousness. They introduce the character of Satan to explain all of the evil in the world. It is probable that the earliest writings about Satan were actually modeled on the arch deity Angra Mainyu of Zoroastrianism. The elaborate angelology and demonology of the later Judaism, the idea of a divine judgment and a final resurrection, and a future life which may be definitely described all seem to have come at least partially from the mythology of Zoroastrianism. An interesting side note to be mentioned here is that it is commonly believed that the Magi who are described visiting Jesus at his birth were Zoroastrian priests.

The influence of Mithraism on Christian mythology is even more pronounced. Mithra, a character already ancient by the birth of Jesus, appears to be one of the models for the later mysticizing of Jesus and his ministry. It is apparent that as each of the gospels was written more and more mystery and magic was accredited to Jesus. It is these additions to the story, added many years after his death, that borrow heavily from the earlier religions already well established in the near east. The story and role of Mithra is very similar to that of Jesus. The Zoroastrian religion centered on the struggle of Order against Chaos, Light against Dark. In this battle the Sun-god was a powerful ally for the side of light. Mithra was the son of the Sun- god sent to Earth to aid in this battle against evil and to be the savior of the world.

The Mithraic festival in celebration of Mithra's birth was held on December 25, the recognized date of Jesus' birth. Long before Christmas was celebrated, December 25th in the Roman world was the Natalis Solis Invicti, the birthday of the Unconquerable Sun.

This feast, which took place just after the winter solstice, was in honor of the Sun God Sol Invitus who was nothing more than the Roman adaptation of Mithra. Mithra was said to have been born in a cave or grotto where shepherds attended him and gave him gifts. This brings to mind much of the story of Jesus' birth in a stable. Mithra, like Jesus, is believed to have descended from heaven to earth, shared a last supper with twelve of this followers, and redeemed mankind from sin be shedding blood and rising from the dead. Mithraism postulates an apocalypse, a day of judgment, a resurrection of the flesh, and of a second coming of Mithra himself when he will finally defeat the principle of evil. The Mithraists even baptize their followers as Christians do, though they use bull's blood instead of water.

The similarities do not stop there. The symbol of Mithra was[b] the setting and rising sun, which invoke images of Christ's death and resurrection. Both religions also included a sacrament of bread and wine derived from the last supper of their respective saviors. The influence of Mithraism on Christianity is even more pronounced in the symbolism and style of the later Gospels as well as in the language and dress of the early Christian leaders. The style of many Mithraic verses seem quite familiar to modern Christians. A typical verse used in a Mithraic service is "Be of good cheer, sacred band of Initiates, your God has risen from the dead. His pains and sufferings shall be your salvation."[/b]

It is clear that many of the phrases used by Paul seem to draw heavily upon the terminology and style of the Mithraic religion. Another example of this borrowing of Mithraic symbolism is when Paul says "They drink from that spiritual rock and that rock is Christ" (I Cor. 10:4). Mithra was sometimes termed the god out of the rock and Mithraic services were often held in caves. In fact the Vatican hill in Rome that is sacred to Peter, the Christian rock, was already scared to Mithra. Many Mithraic artifacts have been found there. This should not be surprising when it is realized that Mithraism was introduced to the Roman empire around 70 BCE, over 350 years before Christianity was adopted as the official state religion, and that Tarsus, the home of Paul, was one of the chief centers of Mithra worship in the ancient world.

The liturgy of the Eucharist that John describes requires the converted to be born again. In John 3:3 Jesus states that "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." This concept of rebirth is again not unique to Christianity. It was in fact integral to the Mithraic religion for 2000 years before Jesus was born. In the Mithraic liturgy, it is stated that it is necessary "so that [the speaker] may gaze upon the immortal beginning with the immortal spirit that I may be born again in thought." Along with the concept of rebirth, the description of the Mithraic communion is nearly indistinguishable form the Christian accounts. The prayer said at a Mithraic communion is "He who will not eat of my body, nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved." This prayer may be compared to the Christian communion story in Luke 21:19 when Jesus breaks the bread and says "This is my body to be given up for you. This cup is the new covenant in my blood which will be shed for you." It is clear just how much influence the symbolism and terminology of Mithraism had on the earliest Christian writers. The other stylist influence that Mithraism had on Christianity is in the dress and trappings used during religious services.

The Mithraic Holy Father wore a red cap, garment, and ring and carried a shepherd's staff. The early Christian leaders adopted the Mithraic title of priest as well as their style of dress. Like the Mithraic priests, the Christian's became Father' despite Jesus' specific proscription of the acceptance of such a title.

In Matthew 23:9 Jesus states that you should "call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven." The Mithraic priest wore robes which featured the sword (cross) of Mithra which are identical to the robes worn by Catholic priests to this day. The Mithraic bishops wore a mithra, or miter, as their badge of office which was also adopted by early Christian bishops. During a mass, Mithraists commemorated the ascension of the sun-god by eating a mizd, a sun shaped bun with the sword (cross) of Mithra. The mass and the communion wafer were likewise adapted to Christianity. The Roman Catholic mass wafer has maintained this sun shape for over a thousand years. No one would claim that the Judeo-Christian religious tradition is taken entirely from one source. As I will show, many similar adaptations were taken from Egypt, Rome, and other ancient civilizations, but it is clear that the Persian cult of Mithra was one of the most influential sources of mythology and symbolism to the ancient Israelites who wrote the Bible.

Egypt
Another important source that the early Christians drew from was the great civilization to the west, Egypt. Many of the pieces to the stories surrounding Jesus which differ from Mithraism may be found in the mythology of the Egyptians. Due to the vast differences in writing systems, the Egyptian religion did not have as strong an influence on the style of early Christian writings, but the influence of the characters and the magic associated with each is even more pronounced than it is for Mithraism.

The four most import figures in Egyptian mythology needed to understanding the Christian stories are Set, Isis, Osiris, and Horus. In earliest times, Set was the patron deity of Lower (Northern) Egypt, and represented the fierce storms of the desert whom the Lower Egyptians sought to appease. However, when Upper Egypt conquered Lower Egypt and ushered in the First Dynasty, Set became known as the evil enemy of Horus (Upper Egypt's dynastic god). In Egyptian religion Set, of Seth, came to stand for the forces of chaos and destruction, of energy misplaced. He was the opposer of light and the champion of darkness. Set was the principle of all which burns and consumes. In later periods, Set was identified with the Greek genie Typhon who had a serpents body. The snake is a symbol long associated with Set which undoubtedly influenced the use of the snake as the evil influence in the story of Adam and Eve. In the dynastic periods, when Osiris, Horus, and Isis were worshipped, followers of Set were persecuted and his priesthood was finally destroyed in the XXV dynasty. When the Hebrews emigrated from Egypt during the XIX dynasty, it is clear that they took with them the character of Set which was later used along with Angra Mainyu as the model for Satan. Even the word Satan was probably derived from the Egyptian hieroglyphic Set-hen, one of Set's formal titles.

The next major Egyptian character who had a large influence on the early Christians is Isis. Perhaps the most important goddess of all Egyptian mythology, Isis assumed, during the course of Egyptian history, the attributes and functions of virtually every other important goddess in the land. Her most important functions, however, were those of motherhood, marital devotion, healing the sick, and the working of magical spells and charms. [b]She was the sister and wife of Osiris, sister of Set, and the mother of Horus the Child (Harpocrates). Isis was responsible for protecting Horus from Set during his infancy; for helping Osiris to return to life; and for assisting her husband to rule in the land of the Dead. Isis figures strongly in the rites and symbolism associated with Mary.

She was considered to be the mother of the king who is thought to be a God made man to rule over his earthy kingdom. The cult of Isis was widespread in Egypt and spread from there to Phoenicia, Syria and Palestine; to Asia Minor; to Cyprus, Rhodes, Crete, Samos and other islands in the Aegean; to many parts of mainland Greece - Corinth, Argos and Thessaly amongst them; to Malta and Sicily; and, finally, to Rome. In the first century BC, Isis was perhaps the most popular goddess in Rome, from which her cult spread to the furthest limits of the Roman Empire, including Britain: her only rival was Mithras. An interesting side note to this is that the 'Black Virgins', so highly reverenced in certain French cathedrals have been shown to be in fact basalt figures of Isis.[/b]

Many of the parallels between Isis and Mary also figure in the parallel between Horus, her son, and Jesus. Obviously the most important similarity is that Isis was said to be a virgin when she gave birth to Horus. This is, of course, to be compared to the biblical story of the immaculate conception. As well as similarities between their stories and their functions, there are several similarities in the types of symbols and language surrounding Isis and Mary. Isis is constantly referred to as the honored one or as the holy one. She is referred to with language like "Immaculate is our Lady Isis" which is nearly identical to the language used about Mary. Cyril, the bishop of Alexandria, openly embraced Isis and simply anthropomorphized her into Mary.

Osiris was the god of the dead, and the god of the resurrection into eternal life; ruler, protector, and judge of the deceased. Osiris was the brother of Set and Isis, who was also his wife by whom he fathered Horus. Osiris ruled the world of men in the beginning, after Ra had abandoned the world to rule the skies, but he was murdered by his brother Set. Through the magic of Isis, he was made to live again. By Dynasty XVIII, Osiris was probably the most widely worshipped god in Egypt. Reliefs of Roman emperors, conquerors of Egypt, dressed in the traditional garb of the Pharaohs, making offerings to him in the temples exist to this day. His death was avenged by his son Horus, who defeated Set, castrated him, and cast him out into the Sahara. Horus then became the divine prototype of the Pharaoh. As Heru-your, "Horus the Elder", he was the patron deity of Upper (Southern) Egypt. Initially he was viewed as the twin brother of Set (the patron of Lower Egypt), but he became the conqueror of Set around 3100 BCE when Upper Egypt conquered Lower Egypt and formed the unified kingdom of Egypt.

There are many striking similarities between the stories surrounding Osiris and Horus and those surrounding Jesus. I will first describe the similarities between their stories and then I will talk about the similar themes and imagery used in the stories. Horus was born to the virgin Isis as Jesus was to Mary. Horus was born in Annu, the place of bread, where a star announced his birth. Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the house of bread, with an eastern star leading the Magi to his birthplace. Horus was baptized with water by Anup the Baptizer at the age of thirty just as Jesus was baptized at thirty by John the Baptist.

Horus had twelve followers known as Har-Khutti and Jesus had his twelve followers known as disciples. Horus was carried off by Set to the summit of Mount Hetep where they did battle. Jesus was carried off by Satan to the Mount where Jesus was tested by Satan.

After Horus' death he was wrapped in a mummy bandage that was woven without seam just like the vesture of Christ is without a seam. And finally there was That-Aan who bore witness to the word of Ra and to the testimony of Horus just as John bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus. The stories of Osiris also shows many similarities to Jesus. Osiris was considered to be the bringer of enlightenment. He forced no man to carry out his will. He induced them to practice what he preached by means of gentle persuasion. His lessons were often imparted to his listeners through hymns or songs. Much of this may be seen in the later writings about the ministry of Jesus.

Of course, the most important similarity between the stories of Osiris and Jesus is their death and resurrection. Osiris was killed by his brother Set, his body stripped, torn to pieces, and finally scattered about. In this way, the death of Osiris bears similarity to the death of Jesus when his body is stripped and his clothes were divvied up among the soldiers. Osiris was then resurrected with the aid of his wife/sister Isis and his son Horus and in doing so became the lord of death and the keeper of the afterlife. This is mirrored in the story of Jesus' resurrection and subsequent mastery over death.

Each year Osiris was the subject of the Abydos passion play, a ritual that stretched from the Old Kingdom up until around 400 CE. The Abydos passion play depicts the slaying of Osiris and his followers by Set. The figure of Osiris is then torn to pieces by Set, after which his remains are gathered up by his wife, Isis, and son, Horus, who then restore him to life. This ritual is mirrored by modern day Christians during Easter when the death and resurrection of Jesus is reenacted in modern passion plays. Some of these stories about Horus are accredited to Osiris and vise versa, but what is clear is that much of the mystical aspects that were added to the later stories of Jesus' ministry drew heavily from the earlier Egyptian texts with which the writers were undoubtedly familiar.

Even more startling than the plot similarities are the symbolic similarities between the Egyptian and Christian stories. Horus was associated both with the lion and with the lamb as was Jesus. Horus was identified with the Tat or cross as well as with the shepherd's crook and the rod. This association was first made through Isis, his mother. In an ancient Egyptian text Isis states that "I am the staff of his power in his youth, and he is the rod of my old age." This association was strengthened by the pharaohs, who were called Kings of the Kingdom and The Great Shepherds of Their Flock. In the tradition of Horus, who was called "The Good Shepherd", the pharaohs carried the staff and rod as the symbols of their heavenly power . Jesus' association with the cross goes without saying but he was also portrayed as the Good Shepherd, and in Rev. 12:5 and 19:15 he is said to "rule with a rod of iron." There are also Old Testament associations between God and the shepherd's crook and the rod. In the Book of Psalms the famous line "Yea, though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me. Thy Rod and thy Staff, they comfort me" ( Psalms 23:4 ) points to the influence of the Egyptian traditions.

Horus was known as Iu-em-Hetep, he who comes in peace, Horus the avenger, and Horus the afflicted one. Latter Jesus would be called the bringer of peace, he who brings the sword, and the afflicted one. Horus was the sower and Set was the destroyer in the Harvest field. Horus was identified with the plant, the shoot, and the natzar. Jesus was the sower of good seed and Satan the sower of tares. Jesus was also associated with the "true vine".

The influence of astrology on the stories of Horus and then later on the story of Jesus goes far beyond the star that signaled both their births. Horus was known as the Morning Star or as he who gives the Morning Star to his followers just as Jesus was. Horus also spoke of the paradise of the pole star Am-Khemen just as Christians have the Holy City lighted by one luminary that is neither the Sun nor the Moon, which makes it most likely the pole star. Along with the symbolic comparisons, some of the sayings attributed to both deities also show the influence of the Egyptians on the early Christian chroniclers and to those who later translated the Bible.

Horus says "It is I who traverse the heavens; I go around the Sekhet-Arru (the Elysian Fields); Eternity has been assigned to me without end. Lo! I am heir of endless time and my attribute is eternity". Striking a remarkably similar cord, Jesus later says "I am come down from Heaven. For this is the will of the Father that everyone who beholdeth the Son and believeth in Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Another similarity in speech is when Horus says that "I open the Tuat that I may drive away the darkness." Jesus is later quoted as saying "I am come a light unto the world."

One final example is when Horus says that "I am equipped with thy words O Ra (the father of heaven) and repeat them to those who are deprived of breath. These were the words of the father in heaven." Jesus speaks with much the same feeling when he says "The Father which sent me, he hath given me a commandment, what I should say and what I should speak. Whatsoever I speak, therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. The word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me."

Finally the most important similarity between the Egyptian religion and Christianity is the concept of a holy trinity. The tradition of the trinity goes back to the Amon theology of the Rameside period. The one god has three appearances or forms which are combined and treated as a singular being. In the later periods, the Egyptian trinity was taken to be Atum the Father, Horus the Son, and Ra the Holy Spirit. This is of course paralleled in the Christian trinity of God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is clear that not only the Persian cult of Mithra, but also the ancient pagan religions of Egypt strongly influenced the formation of the Judeo- Christian religion which grew up trapped between these two giants.

Conclusions

With all of these comparisons and similarities, I have not intended to imply that the Bible is merely plagiarized from these earlier sources. Nor have I intended to prove the that the Bible is a work of fiction. What I have intended to show, and what is apparently clear, is that when the founders of the Christian faith set out to document the life and message of their founder, Jesus, they drew from the best sources of religious doctrine available.

Just as any other writer, the writers of the Bible were influenced by their own cultural biases and view points as well as by the religious figures they met. And as time went on and Christianity was adopted and spread throughout the Roman Empire and the rest of the world, it is not surprising that it was infused with the religious doctrine, symbolism, and mysticism of the cultures it encountered.

To show that these were not just isolated examples from two religions, here is a list of over thirty saviors who were said to have descended from heaven, taken the form of men, and furnished evidence of their divine origin by various miracles and marvelous works. Each laid the foundation for salvation, all were worshipped as Gods or sons of Gods, many were said to have been born to virgins, and many were also said to have been crucified. The list includes such figures as Chrishna of Hindostan, Budha Sakia of India, Salivahana of Bermuda, Zulis and Orus of Egypt, Odin of the Scandinavians, Crite of Chaldea, Baal and Taut of Phoenecia, Indra of Tibet, Bali of Afganistan, Jao of Nepal, Wittoba of the Bilingonese, Thammuz of Syria, Atys of Phrygia, Xamolxis of Thrace, Adad of Assyria, Deva Tat and Sammonocadam of Siam, Alcides of Thebes, Mikado of the Sintoos, Beddru of Japan, Hesus or Eros and Bremrillah of the Druids, Thor of the Gauls, Cadmus and Adonis of Greece, Hil and Feta of the Mandaites, Gentaut and Quexalcote of Mexico, Universal Monarch of the Sibyls, Ischy of the island of Formosa, Divine teacher of Plato, the Holy One of Xaca, Fohi and Tien of China, Ixion and Quirinus of Rome, Prometheus of Caucasus, Mohamud or Mahomet of Arabia. So, truly, the study of the Christian faith must be a study of world faiths. For if we ignore or dismiss the beliefs of others, even those of ancient civilizations, then we are missing an essential part of our own faith.

It is evident that there was no single historical person upon whom the Christian religion was founded, and that "Jesus Christ" is a compilation of legends, heroes, gods and godmen. There is not adequate room here to go into detail about each god or godman that contributed to the formation of the Jewish Jesus character; suffice it to say that there is plenty of documentation to show that this issue is not a question of "faith" or "belief." The truth is that during the era this character supposedly lived there was an extensive library at Alexandria and an incredibly nimble brotherhood network that stretched from Europe to China, and this information network had access to numerous manuscripts that told the same narrative portrayed in the New Testament with different place names and ethnicity for the characters. In actuality, the legend of Jesus nearly identically parallels the story of Krishna, for example, even in detail, as was presented by noted mythologist and scholar Gerald Massey over 100 years ago, as well as by Rev. Robert Taylor 160 years ago, among others.32 The Krishna tale as told in the Hindu Vedas has been dated to at least as far back as 1400 B.C.E.33 The same can be said of the well-woven Horus mythos, which also is practically identical, in detail, to the Jesus story, but which predates the Christian version by thousands of years.

As concerns the specious claim that the analogies between the Christ myth and those outlined below are "non-existent" because they are not found in "primary sources," let us turn to the words of the early Church fathers, who acknowledged that major important aspects of the Christ character are indeed to be found in the stories of earlier, "Pagan" gods, but who asserted that the reason for these similarities was because the evidently prescient devil "anticipated" Christ and planted "foreshadowing" of his "coming" in the heathens' minds.

In his First Apology, Christian father Justin Martyr (c. 100-165) acknowledged the similarities between the older Pagan gods and religions and those of Christianity, when he attempted to demonstrate, in the face of ridicule, that Christianity was no more ridiculous than the earlier myths:

"ANALOGIES TO THE HISTORY OF CHRIST. And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter. For you know how many sons your esteemed writers ascribed to Jupiter: Mercury, the interpreting word and teacher of all; Aesculapius, who, though he was a great physician, was struck by a thunderbolt, and so ascended to heaven; and Bacchus too, after he had been torn limb from limb; and Hercules, when he had committed himself to the flames to escape his toils; and the sons of Leda, and Dioscuri; and Perseus, son of Danae; and Bellerophon, who, though sprung from mortals, rose to heaven on the horse Pegasus. For what shall I say of Ariadne, and those who, like her, have been declared to be set among the stars? And what of the emperors who die among yourselves, whom you deem worthy of deification, and in whose behalf you produce some one who swears he has seen the burning Caesar rise to heaven from the funeral pyre?"

In his endless apologizing, Justin reiterates the similarities between his godman and the gods of other cultures:

"As to the objection of our Jesus's being crucified, I say, that suffering was common to all the aforementioned sons of Jove [Jupiter],  As to his being born of a virgin, you have your Perseus to balance that. As to his curing the lame, and the paralytic, and such as were cripples from birth, this is little more than what you say of your Aesculapius."

In making these comparisons between Christianity and its predecessor Paganism, however, Martyr sinisterly spluttered:

"It having reached the Devil’s ears that the prophets had foretold the coming of Christ, the Son of God, he set the heathen Poets to bring forward a great many who should be called the sons of Jove. The Devil laying his scheme in this, to get men to imagine that the true history of Christ was of the same characters the prodigious fables related of the sons of Jove."

In his Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, Martyr again admits the pre-existence of the Christian tale and then uses his standard, irrational and self-serving apology, i.e., "the devil got there first":

"Be well assured, then, Trypho, that I am established in the knowledge of and faith in the Scriptures by those counterfeits which he who is called the devil is said to have performed among the Greeks; just as some were wrought by the Magi in Egypt, and others by the false prophets in Elijah’s days. For when they tell that Bacchus, son of Jupiter, was begotten by [Jupiter’s] intercourse with Semele, and that he was the discoverer of the vine; and when they relate, that being torn in pieces, and having died, he rose again, and ascended to heaven; and when they introduce wine into his mysteries, do I not perceive that [the devil] has imitated the prophecy announced by the patriarch Jacob, and recorded by Moses? And when they tell that Hercules was strong, and travelled over all the world, and was begotten by Jove of Alcmene, and ascended to heaven when he died, do I not perceive that the Scripture which speaks of Christ, "strong as a giant to run his race," has been in like manner imitated? And when he [the devil] brings forward Aesculapius as the raiser of the dead and healer of all diseases, may I not say that in this matter likewise he has imitated the prophecies about Christ?,  And when I hear, Trypho, that Perseus was begotten of a virgin, I understand that the deceiving serpent counterfeited also this."

And in his Octavius, Christian writer Minucius Felix (c. 250 CE) denied that Christians worshipped a "criminal and his cross," and retorted that the Pagans did esteem a crucified man:

"Chapter XXIX.-Argument: Nor is It More True that a Man Fastened to a Cross on Account of His Crimes is Worshipped by Christians, for They Believe Not Only that He Was Innocent, But with Reason that He Was God. But, on the Other Hand, the Heathens Invoke the Divine Powers of Kings Raised into Gods by Themselves; They Pray to Images, and Beseech Their Genii.

"These, and such as these infamous things, we are not at liberty even to hear; it is even disgraceful with any more words to defend ourselves from such charges. For you pretend that those things are done by chaste and modest persons, which we should not believe to be done at all, unless you proved that they were true concerning yourselves. For in that you attribute to our religion the worship of a criminal and his cross, you wander far from the neighbourhood of the truth, in thinking either that a criminal deserved, or that an earthly being was able, to be believed God,  Crosses, moreover, we neither worship nor wish for. You, indeed, who consecrate gods of wood, adore wooden crosses perhaps as parts of your gods. For your very standards, as well as your banners; and flags of your camp, what else are they but crosses gilded and adorned? Your victorious trophies not only imitate the appearance of a simple cross, but also that of a man affixed to it, "

The Jesus story incorporated elements from the tales of other deities recorded in this widespread area, such as many of the following world saviors and "sons of God," most or all of whom predate the Christian myth, and a number of whom were crucified or executed.33a

Adad of Assyria
Adonis, Apollo, Heracles ("Hercules" and Zeus of Greece
Alcides of Thebes
Attis of Phrygia
Baal of Phoenicia
Bali of Afghanistan
Beddru of Japan
Buddha of India
Crite of Chaldea
Deva Tat of Siam
Hesus of the Druids
Horus, Osiris, and Serapis of Egypt, whose long-haired, bearded appearance was adopted for the Christ character34
Indra of Tibet/India
Jao of Nepal
Krishna of India
Mikado of the Sintoos
Mithra of Persia
Odin of the Scandinavians
Prometheus of Caucasus/Greece
Quetzalcoatl of Mexico
Salivahana of Bermuda
Tammuz of Syria (who was, in a typical mythmaking move, later turned into the disciple Thomas35)
Thor of the Gauls
Universal Monarch of the Sibyls36
Wittoba of the Bilingonese
Xamolxis of Thrace
Zarathustra/Zoroaster of Persia
Zoar of the Bonzes
© 2006 Acharya S

Bros why u dey bambooze us with hearsay? Which research u don carry out? Which evidence you get? E never occur to you say these stories about these mythical characters are actually copy-copy of Jesus? i mean how can you prove they predate Christ?

How do I know that what predates Christ? Horus? Even a school child knows that Horus of Egypt PREDATES CHRIST BY THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

Don't you know anything about Ancient Egypt? Didn't you do history at school?

What's a supposedly schooled fella like you doing asking for proof that Horus is an older deity than Jesus?

Or perhaps you're playing dumb. Pretending you can't see the pretty solid evidence presented above by researchers (and so far largely unrefuted) for asserting the huge debt owed pagan customs and myth by Christianity.

Why lie to yourself? 



St, John’s Gospel begins,
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Egyptian Book of the Coming Forth by Day (commonly known as the Book of the Dead), the oldest written text in the world, contains a strikingly parallel passage,
I am the Eternal, I am Ra ,  I am that which created the Word ,  I am the Word. 

http://www.egypt-tehuti.org/articles/egypt-bible-similarities.html

Should I interprete that as a capitulation in the face of superior evidence? 

Aight. Call me your daddy n I'll leave ya.

I think its been a long time since we heard of pple dat were struck by lightening, Get ready to refresh ur memories cos some pple just dont know where to apply BRAKE!

Call me your daddy n I'll leave ya.

Who cares whether you leave or stay. The world is still is a better place, with or without you.
Stop seeking for attention here. Your yarns stink!

Jen 33 u still dont get it do u? I know Horus and Ra and Isis predte the Christs earthly life. But their stories were not recorded were they? it was simply passed down from generation to generation. and we all know what happens to oral traditions after 3 thousand years dont we. as these stories pass down, they get details added and removed. the stories told about horus 3000BC and the stories told 2000BC [5 thousand years apart] thru oral tradition cannot be the same. get my drift? so what written records of the story of horus detailing similarities with Jesus predates the gospel.

Help me out here. I'm ready to learn. [I'm not a student of history that far off]

@lafile,

lafile:

Bros why u dey bambooze us with hearsay? Which research u don carry out? Which evidence you get? E never occur to you say these stories about these mythical characters are actually copy-copy of Jesus? i mean how can you prove they predate Christ?

What he calls 'evidence' makes for laughter. Ask him about the "innumerable" artifacts, monuments, etc that Walker et al has shown him, and the best he comes up with is "around something like!" Translation: he simply does not know and the best he could do is recycle Walker's dishonesty.

@Jen33,

Jen33:

How do I know that what predates Christ?

And after all your recycled noise, you admit your ignorance. Applause. Ovation.

Jen33:

Horus? Even a school child knows that Horus of Egypt PREDATES CHRIST BY THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

Which makes a school child far more intelligent as you're just guessing.

Jen33:

Or perhaps you're playing dumb. Pretending you can't see the pretty solid evidence presented above by researchers (and so far largely unrefuted) for asserting the huge debt owed pagan customs and myth by Christianity.

'Researchers' who are as dumb as to be shamelessly dishonest? 'Researchers' who are as dumb as to claim there was only one mention of Jesus in the epistle of James whereas there were two solid verses? 'Researchers' who deny that the apostles were eyewitnesses and consider the NT as hearsays and the writings of "other people"? 'Researchers' who claim "innumerable" monuments and documents exist and yet can't offer you an accurate date for your Horus theory?

What you call 'researchers' shames the academic world.

Jen33:

Why lie to yourself?

You mean the recycled lies of Walker et al that you pretend you're blind to?

Jen33:

St, John’s Gospel begins,
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Egyptian Book of the Coming Forth by Day (commonly known as the Book of the Dead), the oldest written text in the world, contains a strikingly parallel passage,
I am the Eternal, I am Ra ,  I am that which created the Word ,  I am the Word.

There's no parallel there but a strikingly pretentious drool. In John's Gospel, the Word was never created; whereas, in your Book of the Dead, your Ra claims to have created the Word. What is parallel between that which is created and that which is not?

Jen33:

Call me your daddy n I'll leave ya.

We knew you were an attention seeker all along.

Lafile, have you heard of the Pyramid Texts?

Like I said, don't expect me to do your research for you. HERE: Go do it yourself! You've been shown the door. Now open it!

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/horus.htm

Read the stuff through, don't come asking me the same question in an hour. The texts exist in abundance proving these connections, and we're not talking 'oral tradition'!

Archaeological evidence is also part of the equation - not everything is text based - thus statues of Isis-Meri cradling her god-son Horus which have been dated to thousands of years BC are a form of evidence linking that religion with latter traditions.


Isis Meri cradling Horus, Egyptian Son of God, circa 3000 BC (note sun-disk on head)



[img]http://carlos.emory.edu/COLLECTION/EGYPT/IMAGES-EGYPT/egypt11L.jpg[/img]


Mary Cradles Jesus, Oyibo Son of God, circa 1BC (note sun halo around head)

oh boy did you read the link? they dont prove anything short of how much changes have been made to the personality and identity of horus down the line. Wikipedia even submits that pepeople believed that horus was a resurrected osiris. And you think this will convince me that someone i know personally does not exist. (kai no icon to hiss). What is the earliest written record of these similarities (there was none in your link)? Stop pasting subjective interepretations of oral traditions.

Please, this mischievous little boy Jen is amusing. On his other thread The Christian God Is Impossible, he claims to believe in God, but not the Bible. However he has yet to determine in which God he believes.

He is a confused child who's reading too much of the wrong literature. Eventually he will run of out heat and become tired when he can't prove anything he's claiming.

Look forward to another cut and paste 100,000 word passage of literary excreta.

trini_girl:

Please, this mischievous little boy Jen is amusing. On his other thread The Christian God Is Impossible, he claims to believe in God, but not the Bible. However he has yet to determine in which God he believes.

Precisely. Have you noticed that jokers of this sort, besides their dishonesty, will claim to believe in a "God" that they are too embarrased to talk about? It's easier for such to devise theories about some non-existent parallel to the Christian faith, while at the same time they have no grounds under their feet.

As you noted, it's all literary excreta.

@lafile,

lafile:

oh boy did you read the link? they don't prove anything short of how much changes have been made to the personality and identity of horus down the line. Wikipedia even submits that pepeople believed that horus was a resurrected osiris. And you think this will convince me that someone i know personally does not exist. (kai no icon to hiss). What is the earliest written record of these similarities (there was none in your link)? Stop pasting subjective interepretations of oral traditions.

I said it before - his so-called researchers are failing him badly. When you put him on spot, he would tell with a do the research yourself - for the simple reason that he has nothing to offer than his waned appeal for attention.

Black Madonnas and their descent from ISIS Meri mother of Horus.

http://saxakali.com/suzar/madonna.htm

First we had the likes of the Reverend, who got himself seriously confused and didnt even make any sense again in his inputs, now another of his prototype exists in the name of jen33.

Never worry, it wont last long. Many of his type have come and gone, but yet the Gospel our Lord is still yet been preached!

@mrpataki,

Good observation. If Jesus Christ never existed, He probably would have been forgotten in the first few decades of a so-called myth. However, the reality proves too much for these "researchers" that they would devise some imaginary parallel when none exists.

Shahan said:

Precisely. Have you noticed that jokers of this sort, besides their dishonesty, will claim to believe in a "God" that they are too embarrased to talk about? It's easier for such to devise theories about some non-existent parallel to the Christian faith, while at the same time they have no grounds under their feet.

As you noted, it's all literary excreta.

I'LL SHOW YOU LITERARY EXCRETA! 


The Jesus character was a myth and this is why we find this:

Jesus Lied About Prayer

Jesus is quoted many times in the Bible saying that a believer can ask for anything through prayer and receive it.  He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it.  This is clearly a lie, and can be proven to be a lie by any believer.  Simply pray for me to be converted to Christianity right away.

Or better yet ask God to move the mountains behind my house.  He could make a lot of converts that way.  If I’m converted today, I’ll post a public apology and devote my life to kissing the Christian God’s ass.  If I’m not converted it would only be fair for you to apologize and devote your life to kissing my butt.


Here are the quotes from Jesus that proves that he lied:



    1)  And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen.  "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."  (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)



    2)  Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)



    3)  Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.  For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.  (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)



    4)  Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him.  Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours.  (Mark 11:24-25 NAB)



    5)  And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Luke 11:9-13 NAB)



    6)  And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.  (John 14:13-14 NAB)



    7)  If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.  (John 15:7 NAB)



      It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.  (John 15:16 NAB)



    9)  On that day you will not question me about anything.  Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you.  Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.  (John 16:23-24 NAB)



A lot of Christians ignore what Jesus actually says in the Bible.  They also tend to add things to the actual words to make them say something else.  If you honestly and truthfully read these quotes, without adding to them, it is very easy to see that Jesus is not saying that God will think about your prayers.  He says God will grant all your prayers.  Clearly, God doesn’t grant all prayers and this proves that 'Jesus' was a liar.


According to the Bible the “End Times” Should Have ALREADY Occurred!

Jesus and his apostles made MANY prophecies concerning the Armageddon.  Christians would have you believe that it shall come as “a thief in the night”.  Yet, the Bible is rather clear concerning when it would happen.  Matter of fact, the Bible consistently said it would follow soon after Jesus’ death.  When you point out such verses to Christians they will try to weasel out of it by saying Christ was talking about his “future” apostles versus the ones he was directly speaking to. 

All it takes is a close examinations of the pronouns used in order to see that 'Christ' truly did believe the end times would have happened nearly 2,000 years ago.  Keep in mind that the Bible claims it is “fit for reproof’ and Christianity “lives and dies on the resurrection and end times”.  If we are to believe these verses and accept that the end time prophecies failed then surely the whole book is invalid.


False Prophecies About the Armageddon:

Jesus’ Predictions:

1) Jesus falsely prophesies DIRECTLY to the high priest (Caiphas) that he would live to see his second coming.  Jesus uses the term “coming on the clouds of heaven”.  This clearly negates the “coming” as the resurrection but as a return to the earth on CLOUDS, not his return in human form from the dead.  Matthew 26:64 & Mark 14:62.

"But I tell you: From now on you will see 'the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power' and 'coming on the clouds of heaven.'"  (Matthew 26:64 NAB)

Then Jesus answered, "I am; and 'you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.'"  (Mark 14:62 NAB)

2) Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime. Matthew 23:36 & 24:34

Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.  (Matthew 23:36 NAB)

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.  "Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near.  In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates.  Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.  Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Matthew 24:29-35 NAB)

3) YET AGAIN, Jesus claims those standing RIGHT BEFORE HIM shall see the Armageddon.  Matthew 16:28 “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”  Don’t let Christians lie to you and claim Jesus was referring to his modern day believers.  The words “some standing HERE will not taste death” clearly refutes such nonsense.  Obviously the people he was speaking to died, and curiously Jesus STILL isn’t here to claim his kingdom.

4) Jesus falsely prophesies that the end of the world will come within his listeners’ lifetimes. 

Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Mark 13:30-31 NAB)

He also said to them, "Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power."  (Mark 9:1 NAB)

5) Jesus falsely predicts that some of his listeners would live to see him return and establish the kingdom of God.

"Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:27 NAB)

6) Jesus implies that he will return to earth during the lifetime of John. (John 21:22)

7) Jesus says that all that he describes (his return, signs in the sun, moon, wars, stars, etc.) will occur within the lifetime of his listeners.  He purposely defines their generation and NOT a future one.  Considering that NONE of those signs took place during the resurrection and that he uses the term of “Heaven and earth shall pass away”, Clearly Jesus is prophesizing that nearly 2,000 years ago Armageddon SHOULD have occurred.  Luke 21:25-33

"There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars, and on earth nations will be in dismay, perplexed by the roaring of the sea and the waves.  People will die of fright in anticipation of what is coming upon the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.  But when these signs begin to happen, stand erect and raise your heads because your redemption is at hand." 

He taught them a lesson. "Consider the fig tree and all the other trees.  When their buds burst open, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near; in the same way, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.  Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.  Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Luke 21:25-33 NAB)

[Editor's note:  Matthew 10:23 also has Jesus telling his disciples that the second coming will occur before the disciples finish preaching in Israel:  "When they persecute you in one town, flee to another. Amen, I say to you, you will not finish the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."  (Matthew 10:23 NAB)] 



John’s Predictions

John believes “the time is at hand,” and that the things that he writes about in Revelation will “shortly come to pass.”  Revelations 1:1-3

9) John quotes Jesus (1900 years ago) as saying he will come “quickly.” Revelations 22:7, 12 & 20

10) John thinks he is living in “the last times.”  He “knows” this because he sees so many antichrists around.  1 John 2:18

11) John says that the antichrist was already present at the time 1 John was written.  1 John 4:3

12) John quotes Jesus (1900 years ago) as saying he will come “quickly.”  Revelations 3:11, 22:7, 12 & 20



Paul’s Predictions

13) Paul thought that the end was near and that Jesus would return soon after he wrote these words.  Philippians 4:5

14) Paul believes he is living in the “last days.”  Hebrews 1:2

15) Paul believed that Jesus would come “in a little while, and will not tarry.” Hebrews 10:37

16) In 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 Paul stated: “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: And the dead Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: And so shall we ever be with the Lord.”  Paul shared the delusion, taught by Jesus, in that he expected to be snatched up bodily into heaven with other saints then living, who would, thus, never taste death. The use of “we” clearly proves as much.  It is difficult to deny that Paul was certain that the end of the world was coming in the lifetime of his contemporaries.



Other Prophecies About Armageddon:

17) James thought that Jesus would return soon.  James 5:8

18) Peter wrongly believed that he was living in the “last times” and that “the end of all things is at hand.”  1 Peter 1:20 & 4:7

@ Shahan,
Thanks oh.
1Peter 1:25  -But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.


Jen33, go on with your rantings, but you have the opportunity today to accept the Love of Jesus into your life. It does not cost you a thing to repent of your sin today and accept Him this very moment.

2Corinthians 13:8 -For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.

@mrpataki,

Lol, he's foaming in the mouth already - and worse than that, he's only spewing out his ignorance all the more. Anything to call him "daddy" - that's what he wants (and a queer way to seek attention at that).

Jen33:

I'LL SHOW YOU LITERARY EXCRETA!

I guess a nerve was touched there!

Jen33 I truly believe your educational background and intellect is FAR superior than most people you will find on Nairaland. I suggest live this topic alone as you are wasting your precious time and energy. Believe me these Naija's are not thinking the same way like the rest of the Civilized world. To them Pastor Adeboye is the Truth(I even hear he can cure AIDS). Imagine that fuckery nonsense. But also too, you can blame poverty on the way most of these people think, na condition make them think like this. The Bible is the only hope they have for living, take that away and you take away their means of existence, and you dont want to do that.


WATCH SOME PEOPLE RESPOND TO THIS WITHOUT ACTUALLY THINKING ABOUT WHAT I JUST WROTE UP HERE. Guys the keyword is THINK. Oyinbo people that gave you christ through Slavery dont believe in him. Believe that. Americans wrote in GOD we trust, and shyt In DOLLARS we trust.

Father forgive them for they dnt know what they are saying ha i sorry for you people

@ Jen33,
Even in your frustrated language exertions here, you are as well proving a point out! Good job man.

Jen33 said:

Jesus is quoted many times in the Bible saying that a believer can ask for anything through prayer and receive it. He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it. This is clearly a lie, and can be proven to be a lie by any believer. Simply pray for me to be converted to Christianity right away.

Or better yet ask God to move the mountains behind my house. He could make a lot of converts that way. If I’m converted today, I’ll post a public apology and devote my life to kissing the Christian God’s ass. If I’m not converted it would only be fair for you to apologize and devote your life to kissing my butt.

Are you trying to say again that Prayer does not exist?
Believing in the existence of a Supreme Being goes to show that you can talk to him. And how do we do that? It is on the place pf prayers. The scriptures you have brought out here, tells us Christians that Jesus is simply the Way, the truth and the Life!

You acknowledge that God does exist, and we talk to Him in our prayers, making our request known unto Him, our Maker through our Lord Jesus Christ.

I have prayed in the name of Jesus, and I have seen miracles breaking forth. The mountains in the scriptures you have said there are figurative expressions, even though some even have the faith to move physical mountains when they pray!

Ok Jen,

You have shown us why you don't believe in the Bible. Please testify about the god you serve and how he/she/it has positively impacted your life and others around you.

OkinBizkit:

Jen33 I truly believe your educational background and intellect is FAR superior than most people you will find on Nairaland. I suggest live this topic alone as you are wasting your precious time and energy. Believe me these Naija's are not thinking the same way like the rest of the Civilized world. To them Pastor Adeboye is the Truth(I even hear he can cure AIDS). Imagine that fuckery nonsense. But also too, you can blame poverty on the way most of these people think, na condition make them think like this. The Bible is the only hope they have for living, take that away and you take away their means of existence, and you don't want to do that.


WATCH SOME PEOPLE RESPOND TO THIS WITHOUT ACTUALLY THINKING ABOUT WHAT I JUST WROTE UP HERE. Guys the keyword is THINK. Oyinbo people that gave you christ through Slavery don't believe in him. Believe that. Americans wrote in GOD we trust, and shyt In DOLLARS we trust.

The Pharisee and Saducees also considered themselves of high intellect, but their spirit man was dead.  What I've notices about people who condemn christianity is their hatred and anger towards people who do.  Why is that? Everyone is free to serve whom ever they choose.

The lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, the prid of life, always evident in athiests and those who run after false gods.
It's sad the type of bitter rage that comes out of you people's heart.

In any event, I am not Nigerian, and I am neither poor nor uneducated.  Rather, I have chosen not to delve into the fallacy of why the Bible is false, or why Jesus is a liar and a false prophet, simply because I do not believe it. 

I have tested and proven the reality of God, Jesus Christ and his Holy Spirit in my own life and can testify that they are real, the word of God is real, the bible is true and I have seen the FRUIT of surrending my will to him and allowing him to continuously change my heart and life for the better.

Show me which other faith has any good fruit.  Tell  me about the good fruit in your own life.  Then perhaps you will be taken a bit more seriously.

Mrpataki, I do acknowledge that prayer exists, certainly.

What I don't accept is that God answers every prayer as claimed by Jesus of the Bible.

Trini girl said:

Ok Jen,

You have shown us why you don't believe in the Bible. Please testify about the god you serve and how he/she/it has positively impacted your life and other around you.

Certainly not like the god you serve.

God in my view is not active in human affairs in ways religionists believe.

Humans are simply physical manifestations of immortal souls who've decided on their own accord to incarnate as 'humans' for a brief while on earth in order to learn and/or teach lessons vital to soul development.

A soul is developed to the extent that it is aligned to the logic of universal oneness - the concept that, as aspects of God, we are ALL a part of the whole.

Such a realisation is manifested by certain characteristic traits in humans, such as selflessness, humility, love for humanity (unconditional love), etc etc.

This is spirituality.

Spirituality is simply the awareness, and the manifestation of the awareness that ALL ARE ONE.

Evil, selfishness, greed etc etc are effects of a lack of knowledge of or appreciation for the intrinsic ONENESS of ALL that IS.

'Spirits' - WE, decide, in partnership with our personal guides - highly evolved spirits dedicated to our evolutionary development, to incarnate as 'human beings' for a few earth years in order to experience 'trials' and learn lessons that hasten our evolutionary development as souls.

It is reported that we are sworn to not 'remember' our previous lives on earth, as knowing the whole story about our immortal selves would ruin the idea of the earthly sojourn.

Reincarnation is among the oldest traditions of humanity and survives in one form or another in just about every religion.

Reincarnation, based on what I've seen and learnt, is a simple fact of existence.

We act out roles that have been largely mapped out by ourselves prior to our earthly life, with varying degrees built in for deviation.

We often decide to reincarnate in order to address certain karmic issues from the previous existence, seen in the heightened awareness of the after-life - where EVERYONE goes.

Thus a rich dictator who killed thousands would decide to atone for and learn from what he considers his failings, by deciding to be born a pauper in his next life.

At the level of Spirit, What we call sins are simply seen as mistakes. Acts of ignorance.

The less you've imbibed (often subconsciously)  the idea of universal oneness the more 'sinful' you are,

'Judgement Day' is not a parade of worthless sinners before God on a throne.

'Judgement Day' IS A SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE whereupon each soul upon returning home is at some point faced with spiritual elders who discuss with him his past life and what good things/mistakes he made etc all with a view to evolutionary development of the soul.

A soul could be made to feel the exact effects of their acts on others in a way that is said to make the soul deeply affected and emotional and cause them to want to make amends.

It's not a 'judgement thing'. The soul itself is his own worst critic.

In this dimension there is an atmosphere of universal love unimaginable to humans.

Those that have accessed these realms, including Near Death Experiencers (many of whom are practicing Christians), Western Psychics, Traditional African Medicine men, Shamans of all races, US Army trained Remote Viewers, Hypnotic regressionists, etc attest that a degree of order and LOVE exist in these realms unimaginable to humans.

God's presence in these realms is like the air we breathe on earth and is said to be indisputable.

Those that access these realms are reluctant to refer to him as God.

The term 'God' is so, human. It implies a sort of master-servant relationship that experiencers of these realms say is utterly absent and non-existent.

God does not issue commands, order deaths, get angry, get jealous, send a 'son' to be killed on earth, demand we 'worship' him, and all that. These are all human traits that could not possibly apply to the spiritual source of all existence.

It makes US feel better to worship God because of our fear and ignorance as imperfect humans.

But in reality God does not require our worship even though he has nothing against it. It's more for our needs as humans than his.

God is simply the Source of all life. The repository of all Consciousness.

Individually we are droplets, aspects of consciousness sent out by ''God'' to earth and other planets to experience creation individually and return to the Source enriched.

This is why the idea of an eternal burning hell is so ridiculous.

Souls that are 'evil' simply gravitate to where those of like mind inhabit in the world of spirits. The conditions there would reflect the mindset of its inhabitants.

Even while there, such souls are still visited by their guides, (whom the Igbo call 'Chi'), who periodically remind them of the better life in the 'realms of light' where the majority inhabit, and imploring them to change their mindsets accordingly.

You cannot hide your thoughts in that world. This is the realm of thought were communication is done by telepathy as a matter of routine.

In the spirit world things that would normally induce selfishness in all - such as poverty -  are absent. So the selfish there would be the ones who just choose to be that way. And there are never many of them. Most people are intrinsically good.

Most people go to a very happy place upon passing.

Religious beliefs as a human utterly irrelevant.

95% of Near Death Experiencers described conditions of indescribable bliss after they were certified dead  See www.near-death.com. for more on NDEs

All experiences are part of a cosmic plan that is perfect in every way.

Life on earth is but a blip in the life of a soul, and it is said that when we return to the spirit world, it feels like we only spent a few minutes as humans.

Time itself is very different on that plane of existence. A  year to us on earth could be barely minutes in the world of spirits.

Time itself is an illusion. In Ultimate Reality, there's no such thing as past and present. Every 'time period' can be accessed at will. There is just the eternal Now.

Our bodies are physical coats that we shed once we 'die'.

Our consciousness (ie our soul) is eternal. Consciousness is energy.

As any science student will tell you, Energy is indestructible. It can only be transformed into another state.

These are some of the truths of existence known to man since the start of the ages, and shielded from humanity by the CONTROL OBSESSED latter day major world religions of Christianity and Islam.

@ Jen 33
That fact that you do not believe in the existence of Jesus, doesn't stop those who believe in him from believing, everyone is got right to his or her own opinion, i believe in Jesus not just because i read about him in the bible but because i have a personal experience/relationship with him, therefore i know he did exist and he's still existing.