This whole tithing vs anti-tithing thing is something that in my opinion should be discussed solely amongst only christians.
- Not needing the retort to gutter-y insults
The practice or non-conformity is amongst christians and no one else.
I see no need to include or respond to unbelievers in support of any side of the debate.
In the house of Christ, we have enough people with spiritual and brain power to properly handle the bible debates and societal impacts

The only time unbelievers need be involved in our matter is when there there is a strong overlap with the wider society
such as tax paying, suspected fraud, need for audit, law breaking, threat to government and society etc.

Paul and Barnabas argued, so did Peter and Paul, and Paul and so many others -all were christians with different persuasions
Even Emperor Constantine when wading into christian arguments at the council of Nicea, did so as a christian, albeit a "baby" one.

..We must remember that no matter how saintly or tainted we are
we are not baptized into our MOG's or personal revelations,... no
we are all baptized into one Jesus, one father, one Spirit.
and should respect that in our arguments.

As for me, I am happy that Christians are beginning to think and ask questions again
I am not a tither, neither am I less blessed than those that tithe
I tried it and was bugged by endless guilt -maybe because of the way pastors presented the message to me compared to what i saw when i read the bible.
The topic of tithing is one thing the Holy Spirit as neither "told" me Yes or No about (although I am made aware that Jesus mission does need lots of money).
My guess is that many of us have also received heavenly silence on that topic. So I believe its left for the different sides to enlighten us

esere826:
This whole tithing vs anti-tithing thing is something that in my opinion should be discussed solely amongst only christians.
- Not needing the retort to gutter-y insults
The practice or non-conformity is amongst christians and no one else.
I see no need to include or respond to unbelievers in support of any side of the debate.
In the house of Christ, we have enough people with spiritual and brain power to properly handle the bible debates and societal impacts

The only time unbelievers need be involved in our matter is when there there is a strong overlap with the wider society
such as tax paying, suspected fraud, need for audit, law breaking, threat to government and society etc.

Paul and Barnabas argued, so did Peter and Paul, and Paul and so many others -all were christians with different persuasions
Even Emperor Constantine when wading into christian arguments at the council of Nicea, did so as a christian, albeit a "baby" one.

..We must remember that no matter how saintly or tainted we are
we are not baptized into our MOG's or personal revelations,... no
we are all baptized into one Jesus, one father, one Spirit.
and should respect that in our arguments.

As for me, I am happy that Christians are beginning to think and ask questions again
I am not a tither, neither am I less blessed than those that tithe
I tried it and was bugged by endless guilt -maybe because of the way pastors presented the message to me compared to what i saw when i read the bible.
The topic of tithing is one thing the Holy Spirit as neither "told" me Yes or No about (although I am made aware that Jesus mission does need lots of money).
My guess is that many of us have also received heavenly silence on that topic. So I believe its left for the different sides to enlighten us

Loooooong time

Ishilove:

Loooooong time

indeed, indeed.

Like I said about Petra1 recently, he has indeed tried by bringing in some "logic"
Thanks to him, For the first time in my many years as a christian, I have seen new points of view in the pro-tithe argument
Previously all i saw from both the masters and minions were repetitions of Malachi, and at best a mention that tithing was before the law.

yeah, I do not believe in or should I say, see from the bible, tithing as-is presently trumpeted
However, there is no doubt that Money is needed and if the church decides it is by "modern tithing",
so be it, -no need trying to use Malachi to blackmail people.

In the first break out of the church, without any reference to the "old testament" ("new testament "did not even exist then)
the church decided to sell all they had and bring the proceeds into the church -ie, they created their own model of Church support
Annaias and Sapphira didnt need to be a part of that community,
and even if they were, they could have just been floor member and hold on to their money, but no -they lied and were struck dead

Now I do not say this to scare anyone
No, I say it for us to understand that most "communities" including a church can decide on a model for raising money. -no need trying to force scripture on top.

A church can decide that its official members pay 10%, or less or more of their earnings
and actually go as far as defining exactly what that 10% should mean.
For example it can say that after the parents have "tithed" and then shared money to the kids, whether the kids should also "tithe" or not.
(-this would save us from referring to the bible to find out hwether it is beer drinking or grains)

the church is free to bless anyone who brings in this "tithe" ,
either spiritually or by granting some priviledges such as performing marriage rights
afterall, it is written that:

"whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

...and if sadly the church worker decides to lie about this "tithe" which they were not forced to partake in just like Ananias did,
the church can choose its sanction.

SUNDAY SERMON: THE TRUTH ABOUT TITHING


I came across this piece on a Whatsapp page and it so represented my views on tithing that I could have written it myself. Please enjoy the read!

The Trial of Pastor Jones (Author unknown)

Judge: Mr. Jones you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income as per the LAW to your Regd. organization (called Church) and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn't tithe God would curse them.

How do you plead?

Mr. Jones: I plead not guilty your Honor, I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold.

Judge: Is it not true, Mr. Jones, that in Genesis Chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold?

Mr. Jones: Yes, you are exactly right, that's what I just told you.

Judge: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13 but it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn't he?

Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose you are right.

Judge: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: No.

Judge: Mr. Jones, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: Well, just once.

Judge: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week?

Mr. Jones: No it does not.

Judge: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: Well the Bible says it was from the plunders of war?

Judge: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war?

Mr. Jones: Yes that's what the Bible says.

Judge: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe?

Mr. Jones: That is what the scripture seems to indicate.

Judge: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else?

Mr. Jones: I guess not

Judge: You guess not, you are a teacher and you are only guessing, is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone?

Mr. Jones: No it is not written anywhere that I have seen.

Judge: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: I believe it says plunder?

Judge: So plunder could be any number of things?

Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose

Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people's possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money correct?

Mr. Jones: Yes you are correct, it does not say just money

Judge: As a matter of fact money is never mentioned in that account at all is that correct Mr. Jones?

Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor, money is never mentioned just goods and food and people.

Judge: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all?

Mr. Jones: That is right.

Judge: I only have one last question for you
Mr. Jones, did God command Abraham to give this plunder tithe to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: No, it appears that he did this voluntarily.

Judge: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their weekly paycheck to a local Regd.Organization-church?
Considering all the evidence I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain.

Mr. Jones: Ok your Honor, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example.

Judge: Let's see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me Mr. Jones.

Mr. Jones: In Genesis chapter 28 starting at verse 20 it says. Jacob vowed a vow, saying, "If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God's house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you."

Judge: You said we should follow Jacobs example, is that right Mr. Jones?

Mr. Jones: Yes that is right, he vowed to give a tenth and we should too.

Judge: Let me point out one thing for you Mr. Jones, Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob's example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right?

Mr. Jones: That is not what I meant.

Judge: What did you mean then?

Mr. Jones: That we should give God a tenth also.

Judge: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time.

Mr. Jones: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow.

Judge: It seems fairly obvious to me that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place.

Mr. Jones: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe.

Judge: You have not said anything yet to convince me one little bit that people are obligated to tithe money to the local organizational institutions -churches and that you were justified in what you were doing. You have taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence.

Mr. Jones: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. So you see your Honor, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us.

Judge: Answer me this Mr Jones, Who was God Speaking to here?

Mr Jones: To the People of Israel

Judge: Can you please read Malachi 2: 1 Please Mr Jones

Mr Jones: Now This command is for you O PRIEST !!

Judge: Did God stop talking to the Priest in Chap. 3, Mr Jones?

Mr Jones: No your Honor!

Judge: Answer me this Mr. Jones, were you aware that God never required anyone to tithe money?

Mr. Jones: No I didn't know that.

Judge: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money.

Mr. Jones: Well your Honor that is because they didn't have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead.

Judge: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. The food was the tithe. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses?

Mr. Jones: I don't know

Judge: I also want you to know that these verses speak to nation under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know Jesus fulfilled the law, it is no longer binding. Once again you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money?

Mr. Jones: I do not know of any.

Judge: So if God never changed it from food to money who did?

Mr. Jones: Man must have.

Judge: So far all you have done Mr. Jones, is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have?

Mr. Jones: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that Jesus told us to tithe.

Judge: Ok let me hear it.

Mr. Jones: Jesus said in Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone. See Jesus said we should be tithing.

Judge: Let me ask you a question, who was Jesus talking to?

Mr. Jones: The scripture says the Scribes and Pharisees.

Judge: Are you a scribe or Pharisee?

Mr. Jones: Of course not.

Judge: Jesus also said in that passage, you have left undone the weightier matters of the law. Are we under the law Mr. Jones?

Mr. Jones: No.

Judge: Why not?

Mr. Jones: Because Jesus fulfilled it.

Judge: When did Jesus fulfill the law?

Mr. Jones: When He was crucified.

Judge: So the law was still in effect until Jesus death?

Mr. Jones: That is correct.

Judge: I think you know where I am going with this don't you?

Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor. Since Jesus had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also.

Judge: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing?

Mr. Jones: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin.

Judge: Is money mentioned?

Mr. Jones: No it was not.

Judge: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say?

Mr. Jones: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We have our mortgage payment, utility bills, staff salary and a host of other things that we have to pay each week. We depend on the money from the people.

Judge: By "church" you mean your organization isn't it Mr Jones ?
-The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. Does It Mr Jones?
In closing, let me recap a few things for you Mr. Jones.
-The tithe was never money;
-The tithe was an Old Testament law, which is no longer binding. When it was binding the tithe was used to take care of people, not buildings.
- We are under a new covenant now.
Paul instructs the Corinthian believers how they are to give. He says in second Corinthians chapter 9 verse 7, Let each man give according as he has determined in his heart; not grudgingly, or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver. So each believer is supposed to give as he or she has determined in his or her heart.
If they determine to Give 10% well and good, If they keep aside some every week to meet this more better.If you are trying to make people give under the threat of being cursed or any other reason even blessing, you are wrong. Someone can not give cheerfully if they are being forced to give. If 'your church can not survive on freewill offerings maybe God is not part of your church at all.
Mr Jones, do you intentionally put your people under a Curse or a Bondage?

Mr Jones: Of Course not !!

Judge: Can you Read in context Gal 3:10-11: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them ....
AND
Gal 5:1-4 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage....

Mr. Jones: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. I can see now that I was completely wrong. I did not study the scripture for myself, I only took mans word for it.
Yes ' am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore.
Sentencing....... All Arise .....

esere826:
This whole tithing vs anti-tithing thing is something that in my opinion should be discussed solely amongst only christians.
- Not needing the retort to gutter-y insults
The practice or non-conformity is amongst christians and no one else.
I see no need to include or respond to unbelievers in support of any side of the debate.
In the house of Christ, we have enough people with spiritual and brain power to properly handle the bible debates and societal impacts

The only time unbelievers need be involved in our matter is when there there is a strong overlap with the wider society
such as tax paying, suspected fraud, need for audit, law breaking, threat to government and society etc.

Paul and Barnabas argued, so did Peter and Paul, and Paul and so many others -all were christians with different persuasions
Even Emperor Constantine when wading into christian arguments at the council of Nicea, did so as a christian, albeit a "baby" one.

..We must remember that no matter how saintly or tainted we are
we are not baptized into our MOG's or personal revelations,... no
we are all baptized into one Jesus, one father, one Spirit.
and should respect that in our arguments.

As for me, I am happy that Christians are beginning to think and ask questions again
I am not a tither, neither am I less blessed than those that tithe
I tried it and was bugged by endless guilt -maybe because of the way pastors presented the message to me compared to what i saw when i read the bible.
The topic of tithing is one thing the Holy Spirit as neither "told" me Yes or No about (although I am made aware that Jesus mission does need lots of money).
My guess is that many of us have also received heavenly silence on that topic. So I believe its left for the different sides to enlighten us

Christians regularly butt into discussions of other religious adherents offering unwanted, caustic, our God Pass your own rhetoric. The atheists are former Christians well schooled in the playbook of disparaging others religions. End of.

esere826:
Like I said about Petra1 recently, he has indeed tried by bringing in some "logic"
Thanks to him, For the first time in my many years as a christian, I have seen new points of view in the pro-tithe argument

Well it’s Not a new logic . I have been saying the same thing for years. And my point is this . I believe there is something special about the Tithe . And I will explain . You know the anti tithing campaign has been hijacked by non givers who want to excuse their greedy conscience .

Tithing is only a small portion of giving . The original antitihers are honest people who feel tithing limits them they give far beyond . So they feel a christian doesn’t need restriction . How could I be giving 100 naira out of 1,000 I could just give the whole 1,000 . Some people even began to give 20% 30% . I was giving 20% as tithe for many years until I studied it again and Said to myself . If God says 10 it should be 10 no more no less. That doesn’t stop any other things I want to give .

Now the issue here is . Some individual are just anti church . They portray church as a 419 centre . They are against every form of giving . They only use tithe as a launch pad . They claim tithe is for isreal offering is for the church . My point to them is that both tithe and offering were mentioned in the law . Including fasting and prayer . Why is it tithe that is on trial . They campaign for the poor . But alms for the poor was for isrea also . Instead of answering the question they resort into banter and personal attacks. We have to be honest if we’re seeking truth.

VisioDirect:
SUNDAY SERMON: THE TRUTH ABOUT TITHING

Judge: Can you please read Malachi 2: 1 Please Mr Jones

Mr Jones: Now This command is for you O PRIEST !!

Judge: Did God stop talking to the Priest in Chap. 3, Mr Jones?

I’ve seen this funny article before .God wasn’t talking to priest last but a nation . I hope if I have time to do a thread on it

petra1:
I’ve seen this funny article before

You ignored the realities in the article
and saw it only as "this funny article"?

petra1:
God wasn’t talking to priest last but a nation

My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father.
He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.
-1 John 2:1
SMH,
Jesus the real SAN, the real Senior Advocate of Nazareth will tell you different
He will advise you that God was talking to priest last but a nation

petra1:
I hope if I have time to do a thread on it

When or if you get time to do the thread on it,
you better be on firm ground because I WILL find time to unceasingly and intensely be on the thread too

GoodMuyis:

.

Hey Goodmuyis, are you not the homo who prophesied that your god will humiliate me in seven days? It's more than fifty days now, yet your imprisoned god Yahweh I'd nowhere to be found. Lemme play the rap song I composed for your god when he failed back then.

Worldly Music
OtemAtum:
a Rhyme of Otem, composed when Abubakar Muyiwa challenged him to a contest in the name of his god Yahweh : Yahweh vs Otem (The Power contest)

It's time for another psychological contest
a challenge from Muyiwa Abubakar to test,
The power of fictitious Jesus on Atum's best
It's gonna bring the mighty fun of July to rest
As the D-day is the wonderful day of rest
It will be Saturday July 29 in the Nigerian South West
Who are going to to be our special guests?
As we make fun of Yahweh the evil beast.
Yahweh the stain of peace and the evil yeast
Whose words enslaved the minds of those who should be blest
Making humanity have the mindsets of the pests

It's not the first time Otem is making a mockery of this Yahweh
In the case of Arinze Goddy who thinks that using threats is the way
But ended up being the one left in total dismay
I'm sorry because I've tried to be silent on such funny display
Which left that user of Urim in total disarray
But I've got to bring it up again for the sake of today
For the purpose of this wonderfully written rhyme for the DeeJay
It was the story of how he prophesied against Otem to say
"You'll beg for bread within Twenty-One days from today"
I was glad because the prophecy made my day
And on July 7 the wonderful deadline D-day
I was here again putting recharge cards and money on display
And the prophesier himself ended up begging after two days
With his account number publicly on Nairaland display

It reminds me also of the case of Samuel Ekwueme the scammer
Who thinks that by duping the sheeple he would hammer
And sincerely he was doing his job well as the spammer
Who spams the Internet with his false testimonies like a dreamer
And when I told everyone he's a scammer he stammers
And he called me to plead for mercy and a cool of my temper.
Thinking that his scamming jobs I could hamper.
Okay I'm not actually a rapper
Therefore I'll cut my wrapper according to the cloth with the draper
This is to say I won't go into this story deeper
But I'll conclude by telling you the end of the story of Ekwueme the duper
He's currently on the run while at every news he sees he scampers
Fearing that he would soon be made to wear the prison slippers


Now GoodMuyis aka Abubakar Muyiwa the prophet
Today is the D-day to be humbled by Yahweh the puppet
But it didn't happen as Yahweh is caught in a spiritual net
Come and see me hit his head with a mallet
And dump my fat solid poo in his mouth like a toilet
Who is Yahweh where god Otem is making him his pet?
I have made the change of the brains of the gullible my target.
And Yahweh is left with no option than to regret.
I am sweeping all bad gods under the carpet
Yahweh, Allah, Moloch, Mazda shall I put in my waste basket
And leave them there for the generations to come in the sunset
Come join me to sing the song of victory blowing the trumpets
Sing from the corners of your houses to the markets
As we dump all the evil gods of the evil books in the caskets.

enshy:

You need to know that your efforts are futile.
As it concerns the Church of God, you are but a noise maker!
You aren't a stakeholder.
You are a God Hater like your Father, the devil...
Ask him to tell you truth, all of you are in a lost battle!
Tithe became a problem when God glorified His Church with prosperity and respect....Tithes are paid by us...Don't stress, we are fine!! Are you

Hmm. When the ignorant ones speak, the enlightened ones shake their heads in pity for them. First of all, you don't know what is God. You worship Yahweh as God Almighty? You are still far behind and you need to learn all over first before you can get started. Your case is like that of a child who is mistaking 1,2,3 for A,B,C. I wonder how anything such child is spelling would be correct.

0temAtum:
..

Pick One

Wordpress or Drupal

MuttleyLaff:

He will advise you that God was talking to priest last but a nation

Malachi 3:8-11 (KJV)
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me.
But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee?
In tithes and offerings.
Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me,
even this whole nation.

He said THIS WHOLE NATION . Not "THIS YEYE PRIESTS"

And look at the remaining part of it and see that he was addressing a nation of farmers .

. . .Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse,
that there may be meat in mine house,
and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven,
and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes,
and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground;
neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

Question: Did priest go to farm . What were the devourers ? Did priests exirrurnce devourers ?