Lucasiangrey:

For?...I don't think you understood me.


You don't have to be sorry ...Atheism is freedom... I am though a secular humanist ...I don't think anything like the spiritual exist ...If there is a creator of the universe (which is very unlikely) then he doesn't interfere with the universe in any way...He doesn't heal the sick , he doesn't make one rich , in fact he does nothing and hence doesn't exist or not useful .... i stand to be corrected, anyway ..but of course , with proof .




Since one don't know everything , do we fill all blanks now with God?....Well , one may not be 100% sure about the existence of God but what do you think about the Russel's teapot ?...



P.N Okeke physics contributed more to my life than any "holy book"...Which God are they probing its existence ?.....


If I tell you I was once a serious christian , Read the whole Bible ....Prayed with general overseer of a church( a startup...lol ) ...saw visions during prayers , handled a complete church service as a minister at the age of 14 or 15 ...You will either say I am lying or I was never a true christian...Brother , start asking yourself serious questions or just proof to me once and for all that jehovah exists (Elijah did it against the prophets of baal ...painful , I wasn't there)

Ok,
You are athiest then.
It's OK, it's your choice
I wount doubt you if you say you were once a christian.
As for the Russell's tea pot, Russell is absolutely correct.
But the problem is not about bring evidence that God exist, the problem has always been people(especially non christians) reasoning along with the available evidence which is only scriptural and not science based.

So, if you can reason along, just follow this post you will see what I'm talking about.
There is nothing hidden under the sun

If you were truly conversant with your bible while you were christian and not just playing religion, you will agree with me that
Hebrews 11:1 says Now faith is the substance(something tangible that we can feel, see, hear about, perceive) of things hoped for, THE EVIDENCE of things not seen(because God is not seen).
That simply means that faith is the evidence of God existence.

Now, what is faith?

In the context of the new covenant through Christ, faith is christianity on earth, which is something we can hear about, see and feel.

Faith cometh by hearing...

Faith is what Jesus refers to as God's kingdom on earth in all his parables.

Now, he put one of his parables this way.

Mark 4:31-32 It is like a grain of mustard seed(referring to the kingdom of God or christianity), which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds(other religions that came before christianity) that be in the earth:
But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs(all religions), and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air(gentiles which includes adherents all over the world apart from the Jews) may lodge under the shadow of it(this same christianity).

Jesus put this parable toward before he was crucified and shortly after his resurrection, there were just only120 adherents who were practicing the christian faith. Acts 1:15.
which I'm very sure that number was much less than the numbers of adherents of other religions as at that time. Which refers to what Jesus meant by

"....when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds"

Now, Google it.
Which religion has the highest number of adherents today in the world?
You will find out it is christianity!!
Which refers to what Jesus meant by

"....But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs"

Now, assuming Jesus was a fictional character, how come this same fictional character of 2000 years ago was able to predict what will happen today, such that we can Google it and see it ourselves?

That's a very big metaphysical question for the athiests that the whole world need to hear.

Because, certainly there is a power behind that, which i think it was responsible for all the miracles we have read in the bible.
I'm not counting the miracles i have personally seen. But this particular one..?
There is nothing athiests can do to explain it.

Russell's tea pot is absolutely right my brother

Actually i already made searches before making that post, my main objective was not to confirm the existence of such claims(seeing God) rather my aim was to see any prove by those witnesses that they actually Saw God and consequently a proof that whomever they hallucinated on is actually GOD.
It might not interest you very much that i failed on both ends to find any plausible proof on this issue. so if you have a way to communicating to Google that will yield such results we will be much obliged if you come to our rescue.
See Scam oooo!!

Zither:


google is your best friend. No need to argue needlessly.

paxonel:

Perhaps God created us through originating new species over time, who knows.
Yes, the bible recorded it took one day( figuratively referring to billions of years).

Afterall,
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that ONE DAY is with the Lord as A THOUSAND YEARS...

And Perhaps the term "one day" was chosen, due to lark of understanding of evolution by humans as at that time, which i think the term "one day" was the most suitable way to communicate to primitive man back then as at the time when these things were recorded.
Because men were truly primitive compared to this modern day.

Today christians may not be able to put it this way to your understanding because it's not everyone that can think to put all these facts in consideration.

My wife once said that the Bible can also be called "Advanced 419 for PROFESSIONALS" , i never argued with that.
There are many things wrong with this point of view "Perhaps God created us through originating new species over time, who knows." i would love to ask you , does all Christians believe this assertion or is it just you ? you can't treat a fundamental concept in isolation because of no other reason than that it is FUNDAMENTAL, the whole concept of the Abrahamic God and it's supremacist notions were built on this single DOGMA, Christians will attack you for entertaining such a heretic idea. First, Even if we choose to accept it the Christians don't so therefore it is useless to even think of such.Secondly, taking up such idea removes you from the Christian Creationist platform to the Atheist Evolutionism. so which are you now , Christian or Atheist ?

1 day = 1 billion years,(Maybe) ...if a day from the Bible can be twisted to not mean a month but a Billion Years then the Bible is just a piece of erroneous trash, it means anything the bible says can mean ANYTHING that it DIDN'T say. Jesus healing the sick might mean that he ate apple or even slapped the sick man, Moses dividing the red sea might mean that Moses urinated into a bowl and had every jew drink from it. or anything any Scammer/Pastor thinks would make him a dollar faster.

Yes, christians die the same way as anyone else, that's what we see and judge without our senses.

What Happend to our(your) Senses ? One loses his senses once he becomes a christian thats why they would give 10% of their earnings,eat grass and even leave their husbands for Pastors, BUT not all of us are Christians so some of us still have our senses intact . so when we say someone is dead he is dead.

But beyond death, the bible explain what happens in the spirit realm.
Like i said before, whether the bible is true or not, it does not change how we perceive things.
And whether our perceptions are right or wrong they still do not disprove the bibles explanations.

The Bible again This same Bible again can we try to explain things without referencing this book please ? cus the atheist won't ever be convinced of any proposition whose validity rests with the Bible. It's like telling a Muslim that the Bible does not condemn eating Pork without asking what his OWN book which is the Koran talks about the same Issue. The Bible never proved anything, it never talks about facts, only rubbish, Moses divided the red sea, Jesus resurrected the dead, turned water into wine, etc....all these things can't be proved, but cold hard facts like the Pyramids of Egypt, a world wonder which has marveled all mankind was NEVER talked about in the Bible, not even just a MENTION, and these are things we can readily prove.

And the problems of metaphysics remains and will continue to remain like that forever

Hence, all we do is simply believe as the word comes for our todays benefits

Metaphysics can not be explained or discussed in religious context, it becomes self-contradictory and trivial, reason, metaphysical phenomenons are not attached to any single religion, from Buddhism to African Traditional Religion, Christianity to Islam,all project metaphysical experiences to impose his own God on the other. Hence i would ignore this point.

I will like to put a sort of scenario to you, What if i am a good christian and i lived the christian life which would assure me of the afterlife, and then i died and there's no afterlife, then i have lost the good life that i should have enjoyed, which i am sure i could have enjoyed but wasted.
Now if i was a good Atheist and enjoyed my life, drank, stole, bleeped, smoked and enjoyed power and the pecks that comes with it, then i died and there was no afterlife, then i have made use of my life.

Now if an afterlife exists then as well i have really nothing to lose since i have enjoyed my life, that way i am sure i did not lose out on the game, since the game is either enjoy this life or enjoy the next life, if you enjoy this life you will not enjoy the next life(if it exists), if you waste this life you MIGHT enjoy the next life. I see no profit in losing what i already have for something i might not have. Then comes the little technicalities, what if after living the useless Christian life and then God said that because you watched that porn once or fantasized about fucking that girl you met on the street, that you have committed a big sin and you will go to hell and JOIN US....hahahahaha i will beat you in hell eeeeh, even God will not recognize you after 2 hours.

The whole Christianity thing is just rubbish.

paxonel:
Anyway, this is just to let athiests know at the back of their mind that fanatism is practiced by dull religionists.
We have so many fanatics and dull religionists in christianity. Inspite their dull state they were wise enough to believe that God exist in order to obtain life again after they die.

But as wise as atheists think they can be (so many of them are so wise, not as foolish as many religionists). They failed to obtain life after they die
It's a pity situation

thoth:
I will like to put a sort of scenario to you, What if i am a good christian and i lived the christian life which would assure me of the afterlife, and then i died and there's no afterlife, then i have lost the good life that i should have enjoyed, which i am sure i could have enjoyed but wasted.
Now if i was a good Atheist and enjoyed my life, drank, stole, bleeped, smoked and enjoyed power and the pecks that comes with it, then i died and there was no afterlife, then i have made use of my life.

Now if an afterlife exists then as well i have really nothing to lose since i have enjoyed my life, that way i am sure i did not lose out on the game, since the game is either enjoy this life or enjoy the next life, if you enjoy this life you will not enjoy the next life(if it exists), if you waste this life you MIGHT enjoy the next life. I see no profit in losing what i already have for something i might not have. Then comes the little technicalities, what if after living the useless Christian life and then God said that because you watched that porn once or fantasized about fucking that girl you met on the street, that you have committed a big sin and you will go to hell and JOIN US....hahahahaha i will beat you in hell eeeeh, even God will not recognize you after 2 hours.

The whole Christianity thing is just rubbish.

You are very funny,
Obtaining external life is not about living a special kind of life style as most christians put it.
It's about believing in Christ that's all. John 3:16.
So, it does not really matter how you live your life.
If you like, drink, smoke, carry women, they will never affect God in anyway and his promise of eternal life to you the moment you believe.

But if any of these things will have any negative impact then you will have to face it yourself.
For instance, if you steal and you are caught, you may be killed.
If you smoke excessively and you end up having tuberculosis, you will go down with the disease.
If you carry women and end up contracting HIV, You will go down with the disease.
it means you are not truly enjoying because there are consequences for each of these actions which makes them sinful.
They will only end up killing you quickly and you die to live again(may be this time, you avoid these same mistakes that killed you as a christian).

So, the best way to enjoy life is to keep to simple rules and avoid sin(whether you are christian or not). And whether you will meet eternal life or not after you die as a christian atleast you have enjoyed your life on earth before you die, by living to rules and keeping laws of nature.

But the truth according to the bible is that, in christianity, there is nothing like you committing sin and sin now takes you to hell like non christians, It's not possible.
Why then was Christ crucified?

thoth:

My wife once said that the Bible can also be called "Advanced 419 for PROFESSIONALS" , i never argued with that.
There are many things wrong with this point of view "Perhaps God created us through originating new species over time, who knows." i would love to ask you , does all Christians believe this assertion or is it just you ? you can't treat a fundamental concept in isolation because of no other reason than that it is FUNDAMENTAL, the whole concept of the Abrahamic God and it's supremacist notions were built on this single DOGMA, Christians will attack you for entertaining such a heretic idea. First, Even if we choose to accept it the Christians don't so therefore it is useless to even think of such.Secondly, taking up such idea removes you from the Christian Creationist platform to the Atheist Evolutionism. so which are you now , Christian or Atheist ?

1 day = 1 billion years,(Maybe) ...if a day from the Bible can be twisted to not mean a month but a Billion Years then the Bible is just a piece of erroneous trash, it means anything the bible says can mean ANYTHING that it DIDN'T say. Jesus healing the sick might mean that he ate apple or even slapped the sick man, Moses dividing the red sea might mean that Moses urinated into a bowl and had every jew drink from it. or anything any Scammer/Pastor thinks would make him a dollar faster.


What Happend to our(your) Senses ? One loses his senses once he becomes a christian thats why they would give 10% of their earnings,eat grass and even leave their husbands for Pastors, BUT not all of us are Christians so some of us still have our senses intact . so when we say someone is dead he is dead.

The Bible again This same Bible again can we try to explain things without referencing this book please ? cus the atheist won't ever be convinced of any proposition whose validity rests with the Bible. It's like telling a Muslim that the Bible does not condemn eating Pork without asking what his OWN book which is the Koran talks about the same Issue. The Bible never proved anything, it never talks about facts, only rubbish, Moses divided the red sea, Jesus resurrected the dead, turned water into wine, etc....all these things can't be proved, but cold hard facts like the Pyramids of Egypt, a world wonder which has marveled all mankind was NEVER talked about in the Bible, not even just a MENTION, and these are things we can readily prove.

Metaphysics can not be explained or discussed in religious context, it becomes self-contradictory and trivial, reason, metaphysical phenomenons are not attached to any single religion, from Buddhism to African Traditional Religion, Christianity to Islam,all project metaphysical experiences to impose his own God on the other. Hence i would ignore this point.

Does all christians believe that God created man through originating new species?
Right now, very few educated christians believe that.
When galleleo in his time told the church the earth is spherical. Very few christians believe that. But today, nobody doubt it. So leave it, time will tell.

That scripture says
One day is with THE LORD(God, not humans) as a thousand years..
God is a spirit and may not necessarily follow 24 hours time configuration in his activities, including his creation process.
For humans, one day remains 24 hours in this physical world.
The bible is very specific and objective in it's statements, it's just because everything have to be compressed and fitted into one book, and anyone reading it will need to expandtiate or interprete. In a bid to interprete the book over time, a lot of religious leaders commit a lot of error
So, i will not blame you for saying the bible is erroneous. It's how religion has presented the book to us.

What happen to our senses?
If spirits exist we cannot perceive them with our senses that's what i meant.
Not that we cannot use our senses in this physical word. Remember, the analogy is between spirits and the physical.
So, anyone saying we should not use our senses to determine whether paying tithe is good or not, or not using our sense to observe the excesses of pastors to become a mumu sheeple. That person is a lair .

Do not deprive Muslims or adherents of other religions to quote out the truth from their holy books. Infact most of the truths found in the bible are also found in other holy books.
The most important thing is, let the truth be spoken.

Metaphysical phenomenon is not attached to any one religion but all religions and educational institutions,That's very true.
It's a general study everyone want to know about.
That's why christianity will explain spirits. Islam, African traditional religions, Budhaism, Judaism, atheism, educational institutions are not excluded.

Now this is the version of Christianity that I'll love to subscribe to, eat,drink,Bleep and go to heaven, just believe in Christ and you'll be taken care of. Does your Church have a name cus I'll really want to be a member ?

paxonel:


.

But the truth according to the bible is that, in christianity, there is nothing like you committing sin and sin now takes you to hell like non christians, It's not possible.
Why then was Christ crucified?

so in the scene with the Muslim and Christian dude arguing about pork, who's saying the truth ?
Koran forbids Muslims to eat pork cus God told the prophet that it is unclean, while Jesus the son of God told us that all is now cleansed and we should go ahead and enjoy the pork. Who's Good Book do we follow ?

paxonel:

Does all christians believe that God created man

Do not deprive Muslims or adherents of other religions to quote out the truth from their holy books. Infact most of the truths found in the bible are also found in other holy books.
The most important thing is, let the truth be spoken.

thoth:
Now this is the version of Christianity that I'll love to subscribe to, eat,drink,Bleep and go to heaven, just believe in Christ and you'll be taken care of. Does your Church have a name cus I'll really want to be a member ?


so in the scene with the Muslim and Christian dude arguing about pork, who's saying the truth ?
Koran forbids Muslims to eat pork cus God told the prophet that it is unclean, while Jesus the son of God told us that all is now cleansed and we should go ahead and enjoy the pork. Who's Good Book do we follow ?

To eat pork or not to eat pork should not be a bases for argument among religions.
Every religion are entitled to what they believe in, so long they are not against the universal law of love your neighbour as yourself.
I mean, eating pork or not eating pork will never affect your neighbour in anyway.
So if christians choose to be not selective as Jesus says, there is no problem about that.

Let Muslims follow their laws and let christians follow their teachings,So long they don't have any negative effect .

You are a Heretic!!

paxonel:

To eat pork or not to eat pork should not be a bases for argument among religions.
Every religion are entitled to what they believe in, so long they are not against the universal law of love your neighbour as yourself.
I mean, eating pork or not eating pork will never affect your neighbour in anyway.
So if christians choose to be not selective as Jesus says, there is no problem about that.

Let Muslims follow their laws and let christians follow their teachings,So long they don't have any negative effect .

thoth:
You are a Heretic!!

Being heretic is something that must come to be, if there must be change.
Jesus was seen heretic by the scribes and Pharisees, they could not understand what he was driving at. The Jew demanded that he should be crucified because what he was teaching was against the laid down doctrines of the temple.
Galelio's postulate that the earth is spherical was considered heretic because it was against the laid down beliefs of the church that the earth was flat. Therefore he was imprisoned.
Paul was nearly killed when he returned to Jerusalem at a time as the Jews accused him of teaching heresies everywhere he goes.

So, i begin to ask this question, what constitute heresy?

When a false doctrine is laid down and it is blindly accepted worldwide and the effect is impunity among men, they prefer maintaining the impunity and false doctrine, anything out of it is considered heresy.

My advice to people is to keep religion,denominationalism and sentiments aside, look at the content of every doctrine they believe as well as those that comes their way (including my own), subject everything to reasoning. Those that contain fallacies, they should discard them and maintain those that free from fallacies. It's as simple as that.

But first, they have to be educated enough to reason and know what fallacies are. (What almost all nigerian christians have abandon).

Hence, the high point of my teaching is always education and love, and 100% accuracy.

The place of reasoning and logic should not replace the place of faith(which is imagination that God exist as put by athiests) because...
Faith can take you anywhere, even to God