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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison (5600 Views)
Diffrences Btwn Speaking In Tongue,praying,and Speaking In Other Tongues:part 3 / Pastor Olakunle Beloved: Sex Before Marriage Is Not Sin (Video) / How Do You Feel After Speaking In Tongue? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by Ronpet777(m): 3:42pm On Feb 11, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff:Now u want to get all righteous with me. No problem. If u wish to back up a notion u shld do with complete clarity. D topic is very misleading and will instigate so much confusion and disbelief. But no problem, u knw more obviously. 1 Like |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by MuttleyLaff: 3:59pm On Feb 11, 2018 |
jamescross:What is the true meaning of the text? What was the issue text was highlighting or addressing? jamescross:It you. You tied yourself up You brought up Isaiah 29:13 and tried to equate with babbling but I said, No, that its about lip service and flipped out Matthew 15:7-9, echoing Isaiah 29:13 talking about when people talk the talk but dont walk the talk I have no issues with your straw man "God sees the heart" That is Bible 101 things jamescross:So does the traditions of men equate to babbling? Or does it equate to lip service? |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by jamescross: 4:10pm On Feb 11, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff:babbling because it is as meaningless as cleaning the outside while the inside is dirty. having an appearance of righteousness denying/lacking it's power thereof |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by MuttleyLaff: 4:27pm On Feb 11, 2018 |
jamescross:I chew your post(s), and then spit it out in pieces Stalemate, so that's your game plan jamescross:How would I know, if the question isnt asked. Let me, let you on to something, sometimes the questions asked isnt for the benefit of the questioner jamescross:You call "yes, as often as the spirit groans in me" answering 1,2 and 3? Why didnt you number them? You could have at least put in the same the effort, if not more, I put into dialoguing with you It shows to deliberately was trying to be evasive as much as you can get away with I looked at the initial responses shook my head, and looked at the feeble subsequent ones and dismissively further shook my head jamescross:You have no point jamescross:To be honest, it getting more clearer by the day, that you really aren't ready or have the stamina for it |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by MuttleyLaff: 4:35pm On Feb 11, 2018 |
Ronpet777:I believe you read OP's "Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie" opening post to find out if the topic heading was appropriately and with good reason titled the manner it was |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by MuttleyLaff: 4:44pm On Feb 11, 2018 |
jamescross:What a strange simile You say; Isaiah 29:13 is talking of babbling because babbling is as meaningless as cleaning the outside while the inside is dirty jamescross:Is "having an appearance of righteousness denying/lacking it's power thereof" too babbling? |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by paxonel(m): 5:07pm On Feb 11, 2018 |
jamescross:If you want to know what Paul meant, read everything from the beginning. He was simply saying that if anyone should speak in tongue in church then he must interprete what he is saying so that everyone will benefit and be edified or encouraged. If what he meant includes him speaking in tongues in the spirit and lack understanding at times, how does that correlate with edifying or encouraging the church? Are you saying that Paul spoke out of point? Does Paul speaking in tongues to himself without understanding what he is saying in anyway edified the church? Paul was much more intelligent than that. |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by jamescross: 9:06pm On Feb 11, 2018 |
paxonel:paul stated the importance of having interpretation. if everyone could interprete he won't say either the speaker be able to interpret or an interpreter be around. if he himself didn't understand the tongues would he encourage it to be used anyhow during meetings. it's a wisdom prophets use to help human limitation, by judging and interpreting together. |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by paxonel(m): 9:19pm On Feb 11, 2018 |
jamescross:Exactly |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by Goshen360(m): 7:48am On Feb 14, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff: My brother sorry for the disappearance from the tongue topic if not for the mention, I've been really busy and just peep into the forum. I did read your reply then on our tongue discussion. Was going to reply but other things was begging for my immediate attention and it's being one thing into another ever since. However, one question I was going to ask on your response then was, What language do you pray in/with that neither you the speaker nor others understand? |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by MuttleyLaff: 8:09am On Feb 14, 2018 |
Goshen360:Before I answer your question, lets first confirm we are on a same page: 1) Is there a language, one is to pray in and/or with that neither you, the speaker, nor others understands? 2) If Yes, what is the justification and/or reason for using this language? 3) What is the origin of this language? 4) What kind of language is this, what may we call it or can we call it? After you've answered the four above, we can go further and in depth with details Meanwhile, think about this: Do you hear your thoughts, inside your head or are they silent? Do others hear your thoughts, inside your head or are they silent? |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by danvon(m): 9:11am On Feb 14, 2018 |
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Corinthians:14:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 1 Corinthians:1:22 Speaking in tongues was meant to convert Jews specifically no place where the apostles spoke in tongues in a place surrounded by gentiles Speaking in tongues was a miracle where different people would understand one language not this gibberish nonsense |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by MuttleyLaff: 11:11am On Feb 14, 2018 |
danvon: Danvon, Danvon, Danvon.... Steady, steady, steady with the details.... You seem to have forgotten what or who Cornelius is though Cornelius and his household spoke in a different tongue for the benefit of the watching Jewish audience to serve as a sign or catalyst for them to start believing in the Good News and also in the person of who Jesus is |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by petra1(m): 12:27pm On Feb 14, 2018 |
jamescross: You are very correct . Many people don’t know the difference . It’s a misunderstanding of scripture. Speaking in tongues is different from praying in tongues . Talking to God in prayer is different from talking to the hearing of men in prophecy or cooperate prayer. 1 Like |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by MuttleyLaff: 1:12pm On Feb 14, 2018 |
petra1: I suppose speaking in English, is different from praying in English Corporate prayer indeed. 1 Like |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by petra1(m): 1:31pm On Feb 14, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff: Yes it depends on who you’re speaking to. Question : does God need interpretation ? 1 Like |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by MuttleyLaff: 1:36pm On Feb 14, 2018 |
petra1:No, God doesn't need interpretation and here is my question Does God at any time expect, recommend, advise or require a special language from us or anyone else for that matter, when praying to Him? |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by petra1(m): 1:43pm On Feb 14, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff: No but because of our limited understanding of his will , when we pray in the spirit the Holyghost who knows the will of God actually does the praying through us . Romans 8:26-27 (AMPC) 26 So too the [Holy] Spirit comes to our aid and bears us up in our weakness; for we do not know what prayer to offer nor how to offer it worthily as we ought, but the Spirit Himself goes to meet our supplication and pleads in our behalf with unspeakable yearnings and groanings too deep for utterance. 27 And He Who searches the hearts of men knows what is in the mind of the [Holy] Spirit [what His intent is], because the Spirit intercedes and pleads [before God] in behalf of the saints according to and in harmony with God’s will. 3 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by connectikut89(m): 3:46pm On Feb 14, 2018 |
petra1: Point of correction, that verse talks about the Holy Spirit doing the groaning. Don't misinterprete it please. It is explicitly stated in verse 27. The Holy Spirit does NOT pray through us, He prays on our behalf. And as a matter of fact, groaning does not mean speaking in tongues. Check verses 22 & 23. Romans 8:26-27 NLT - And the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness. For example, we don’t know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words. And the Father who knows all hearts knows what the Spirit is saying, for the Spirit pleads for us believers in harmony with God’s own will. Roman's 8:26-27 ERV - Also, the Spirit helps us. We are very weak, but the Spirit helps us with our weakness. We don’t know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit himself speaks to God for us. He begs God for us, speaking to him with feelings too deep for words. God already knows our deepest thoughts. And he understands what the Spirit is saying, because the Spirit speaks for his people in the way that agrees with what God wants. 1 Like |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by MuttleyLaff: 4:22pm On Feb 14, 2018 |
petra1: connectikut89:Thank you ojaare brother I was almost left speechless, looking and laughing at Petra1's post |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by connectikut89(m): 4:51pm On Feb 14, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff: U're equally doing a good job my brother. We will not allow peddlers of the word of God for money twist scriptures. Not under our watch! 2 Likes |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by Goshen360(m): 6:32pm On Feb 14, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff: Okay, I'll answer from scriptures. 1. Yes, there's a language that a person or I can pray in that no one nor the speaker understands. 1 cor. 14v2.......Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 2. The justification for this kind of prayer language is, the Spirit helping our weaknesses in prayer for in depth we don't know what deep things we ought to pray for. So, we or the speaker utter mysteries.....BY THE SPIRIT, not by OUR UNDERSTANDING now., still 1 cor. 14v2. 3. Like I said on the other thread then, the origin, both sign tongue and prayer tongue is the Spirit, NOT OUT INTELLIGENCE NOR OUR MIND. 4. I in my understanding called it prayer language, some call it spiritual language because I guess, devil too doesn't understand it. You know how u and me can speak yoruba and some or most Akata can't understand it and they be lost in conversation. Same way the prayer tongues between your spirit and God being enabled by the Spirit of God in you. Shey I try....? Lol 2 Likes |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by MuttleyLaff: 7:00pm On Feb 14, 2018 |
Goshen360:Thank you for taking time out to respond. You try, no bi small. Now answering your question I am not aware of me having any language that I pray in and/or pray with that neither, I, the speaker nor others understands? If for sake of pretension, there is one, then if I use it without understanding the content of what's being prayed, then my mind is not profiting from it and I am not gingered. also though my spirit prays, I won't be built up by it, for lack of not knowing what's been prayed. If a Hausa man recites the Yoruba Lord's Prayer without understanding Yoruba, him reciting the prayer in a language or tongue he doesn't know, is not built up, he doesn't profit from it because he doesn't know what the prayer entails, except it had been interpreted to him. Do you agree? I trust you saw the two brilliant posts, Danvon and connectikut89 submitted? What's your take on both posts, what do you make of both? Meanwhile, you didn't respond to the below: Do you hear your thoughts, inside your head or are they silent? Do others hear your thoughts, inside your head or are they silent? Does God hear your thoughts inside your head or He doesn't? Does Satan hear your thoughts inside your head or He cant? |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by danvon(m): 7:35am On Feb 15, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff:Ask them o |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by petra1(m): 7:57am On Feb 15, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff: Never ask a question if you don’t have stomach for the answer . Calling up assistant to cover up is not very smart . Let truth win. 1 Like |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by petra1(m): 7:59am On Feb 15, 2018 |
connectikut89: Let your friend speak for himself na . You be muttelylaff advocate ? But if you wanna answer for him . What doe that passage refer to . What is groaning ? How does it take place . 1 Like |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by MuttleyLaff: 8:54am On Feb 15, 2018 |
petra1:I say, in the age of information, ignorance is a choice petra1:I dont need assistance to cover up nothing I was impressed someone else is rightly dividing the word of truth and correcting your biased, erroneous or unfair interpretation of Romans 8:26-27 so drop your negative comment(s) already, unless you're jealous, brother connectikut89 is better informed than you are on this subject connectikut89: MuttleyLaff: petra1:The gloves are about comiing off You asked for it When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled, - John 11:33 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. - Rom 8:26 Rom 8:26 and John 11:33 for that matter, arent verses that support Jesus spoke in tongues John 11:33 is a combination of groaning and display of empathy and not a proof that Jesus spoke in tongues Rom 8:26, is not speaking in tongue It is, to some degree similar to John 11:33 above, (e.g. moaning or groaning expression coming from within induced the spiriit) and so equally like John 11:33, Rom 8:26 too, doesnt qualify to serve as proof, that Jesus actually spoke in tongue Moaning or any other sounds made during or in the heat of passion and groaning done to convey pain, despair, pleasure etcetera or any other sounds made when cornered and backed against a concrete wall isnt speaking in tongues By the way, though old habit are difficult to die, its close to 14 years now, that I've managed to curtail doing this gibberish or nonsense and I deliberately said, managed, because it sometimes wants to subconsciously rear its ugly head and slip back in Mind you, I do groaning in the spirit (i.e. that's where & when applicable) but dont anymore do gibberish - aside the different kinds of groaning out of pain, out of despair, out of pleasure etcetera, there is a distinction (i.e. particularly in regards to when praying) between groaning in the spirit and talking gibberish Jesus groaned in the spirit (i.e. John 11:33 and John 11:38) but it wasnt the sort of gibberish thing we have and see in modern believers settings or gatherings As said, I, too, when praying intensely do experience groaning in the spirit - it usually is making deep inarticulate sound(s) or grunts during praying, out of pain, anguish, desperation or some strong emotion I strongly want to believe, its similar to, if not on par with that, Hannah style of praying (i.e. 1 Samuel 1:10) Pray, you aren't cornered that bad, that you need to resort to groaning when praying It's out of exasperation, that groaning comes out Jesus, out of exasperation too, groaned, at sight of Lazarus dead/sleeping I can go more, on praying in the spirit and praying with the spirit, but will pause, so as not to, cause information overload Again, the three recorded evidences of speaking in tongues in the bible, occurred for a purpose and/or to serve that purpose Each instance of the three recorded speaking in tongues happened with articulated utterances, that were, coherent enough to other present audiences admitting and understanding the spoken tongues For the three occurrences in the Bible , refer to Acts 2:8, Acts 10:46 and Acts 19:60 For Jews demand miraculous signs (i.e. ask for signs) and Greeks ask for wisdom (i.e. philiosophy) - 1 Corinthians 1:22 So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers. - 1 Corinthians 14:22 For all the 3 recorded times, speaking in other tongues occurred in the bible, it is visibly noted that, it happened each time, for the benefit of unbelieving Jews For any that might have been misinformed, it is a well documented truth, as seen in 1 Corinthians 14:22 above that speaking in tongues is not for believers, rather it is used as a sign for unbelievers (i.e. 1 Corinthians 1:22a) Petra1, the primary purpose for speaking in tongues, was/is not for use as a talisman, neither to be used as quicker or easier mystical shortcuts to prayers or worship Nor is it's purpose to be used as a form of means to confuse the devil or demons from understanding whats been prayed But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, - Jude 1:20 Jude 1:20 has nothing to do speaking in tongues but means what it says out of the tin (i.e. it means literally pray in the Holy Spirit, as in like one of those ''thy will be done'' prayers) |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by Ronpet777(m): 11:34am On Feb 15, 2018 |
petra1:God bless u sir. More wisdom! 2 Likes |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by MuttleyLaff: 11:56am On Feb 15, 2018 |
Ronpet777:If you accept that praying in the spirit, is the Holy Ghost knowing the will of God and so actually does the praying through us, then please describe: 1) How you, pray in the spirit 2) How you, pray with the spirit |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by rhektor(m): 12:22pm On Feb 15, 2018 |
petra1: I wonder waht conectiku 89 was saying ó, holy spirit groaning? This is laughable |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by connectikut89(m): 12:38pm On Feb 15, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff: Thank you for this. I couldn't agree more and I couldn't have said it better. In response to petra1, the word ‘groanings’ used in verse 26 is the greek word, 'stenagmos’ which means heart murmurings. It is also used in Acts 7:34, “I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them.” You can't say the Israelites were speaking in tongues as at the time, can you? ERV Bible uses "crying" instead of "groaning" in the aforementioned verse. Sometimes when we are in great despair, and pray to the Father, we have a fervent desire to express these things eloquently in prayer in such a way as to be answered. However often we can’t put words to the burdens of our heart, and we really just groan in our spirit, but don’t feel as if we’re accomplishing much. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit takes the groanings of our heart and turns them into intelligible prayers that God answers. |
Re: Speaking In Tongue; A Great Lie By Olakunle Allison by Ronpet777(m): 12:39pm On Feb 15, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff: Sir, like I stated earlier, I wasn't happy at d fact that d op called speaking in tongues a great lie. Many Bible verses hv been quoted in this thread to show that there is speaking in tongues, for edification and praying in divers tongues to d father. It is very simple. D Holy Spirit endues us with d unction to pray to d father in other tongues. I don't want us to over flog this topic, it's just painful that some folks will read d topic and few comments on d surface and condemn all forms of speaking and praying in tongues. It's sad cos they r very biblical. 1 Like |
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