Have you read the OT pat of the bible? Or are you just feigning ignorance for convenience sake?

logic1:

No I am not.

Killing with a sword or spear was the fastest way to kill in ancient times. The only way God ever ordered jews to kill was with the sword or spear so (without comparing this to modern times) how would you call that brutal?

I call the annihilation of the innocents, whether with a sword or with a WMD brutal simply because it is so unnecessary. If you and your "God" cannot realize that, then hell is home

Oh, the irony!
His user name is actually LOGIC1!!!

logic1:

Therefore your statement above is at best an unverifiable stance and cannot be used logically to portray God as brutal.

You must be kidding,right? If the jewish God's graphically chronicled monstrous deeds in the bible are deemed to be unverifiable, then you are denying, and in a blatant fashion, the innerancy of the bible itself. It is all there in black and white. Your attempt at being disingenuous is rather clumsy at best. It is rather bizarre watching a religious person bend so far backwards to defend a monstrously evil deity. You better watch your back so as not to break it.

You must be kidding,right? If the jewish God's graphically chronicled monstrous deeds in the bible are deemed to be unverifiable, then you are denying, and in a blatant fashion, the innerancy of the bible itself. It is all there in black and white. Your attempt at being disingenuous is rather clumsy at best. It is rather bizarre watching a religious person bend so far backwards to defend a monstrously evil deity. You better watch your back so as not to break it.

logic1:

Please can you quote one "graphically chronicled monstrous deed" so we can analyse it.

Mudley313:

it's pretty obvious the tribalistic bloodthirsty monster that was the OT jewish god, concocted by barbaric jewish ancients was styled as a bronze aged tyrant king (that's why he was referred to as king of kings or his mythical heavenly home was a kingdom) with all the ego driven atrocity laden bout of senseless massacres and genocidal rampages, perpetrated by these savages in the names of their imaginary despicable god (who ofcourse labelled them his chosen people cos they wrote the fables themselves; duh)

using the logic of illogical1 i bet we can aslo forgive the barbaric acts of the al qaedas and boko harams in the name of not questioning god or, according to him,portray the acts as brutal

there're too numerous to type up in here but just but a few for your deluded azz to salivate over

Genocide

Deuteronomy 2:32 - 35
The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Sihon.

Deuteronomy 3:6
The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Og.

Joshua 6:2 (Joshua 6 and Joshua 8:1 to 30)
2 And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, (and) the mighty men of valour.

Joshua 6:21
21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and backside, with the edge of the sword.

Joshua 8:1 - 2
1. And the LORD said unto Joshua, Fear not, neither be thou dismayed: take all the people of war with thee, and arise, go up to Ai: see, I have given into thy hand the king of Ai, and his people, and his city, and his land:
2 And thou shalt do to Ai and her king as thou didst unto Jericho and her king: only the spoil thereof, and the cattle thereof, shall ye take for a prey unto yourselves: lay thee an ambush for the city behind it.

Joshua 8:8
8 When you have taken the city, set it on fire. Do what the LORD has commanded. See to it; you have my orders."

Joshua 8:24 - 26
24 When Israel had finished killing all the men of Ai in the fields and in the desert where they had chased them, and when every one of them had been put to the sword, all the Israelites returned to Ai and killed those who were in it.
25 Twelve thousand men and women fell that day--all the people of Ai.
26 For Joshua did not draw back the hand that held out his javelin until he had destroyed all who lived in Ai.

Joshua 10:10-27
With the help of the Lord, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Gibeon.

Joshua 10:28
With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Makkedah.

Joshua 10:30
With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Libnah.

Joshua 10:32-33
With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Lachish.

Joshua 10:34-35
With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Eglon.

Joshua 10:36-37
With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Hebron.

Joshua 10:38-39
With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Debir.

Joshua 10:40
40 So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.

1 Samuel 15:2-3, 7-8
"This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and backside , '
And Saul ,  utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

All that amounts to an overuse of "utterly destroy". You would have thought that after Moses brought down the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20), with the explicit "Thou shalt not kill" (Exodus 20:13), there would be some kind of objection to killing thousands of people, including women and children. Let's face it - if anyone here today got a vision from God telling him/her to go kill an entire race of people, it's far more likely the person would be declared insane rather than that becoming acceptable justification for utterly destroying cities and tribes.

God exercising the rod of smiting

Exodus 12:29
29 At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.

Exodus 20:5
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

Samuel 5:6-9 9 But after they had moved it, the LORD's hand was against that city, throwing it into a great panic. He afflicted the people of the city, both young and old, with an outbreak of tumors. (NIV)
9 And it was so, that, after they had carried it about, the hand of the LORD was against the city with a very great destruction: and he smote the men of the city, both small and great, and they had emerods in their secret parts. (KJV)
-->conclusion? the Lord smote them with testicular cancer,

2 Samuel 24:15 15 So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men.

2 Kings 6:18
18 As the enemy came down toward him, Elisha prayed to the LORD, "Strike these people with blindness." So he struck them with blindness, as Elisha had asked.

2 Kings 19:35
35 That night the angel of the LORD went out and put to death a hundred and eighty-five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. When the people got up the next morning--there were all the dead bodies!

Isaiah 49:26
26 I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh; they will be drunk on their own blood, as with wine. Then all mankind will know that I, the LORD, am your Savior, your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob."

Isaiah 3:17
Therefore the LORD will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the LORD will discover their secret parts.

The Lord decides that killing the firstborn of every Egyptian household is an acceptable way to convince the Egyptians to release the Israelites (gee why not just kill the Egyptians outright?), sins are deemed to be hereditary (would you like to be punished for your great-grandfather's wrongdoings?), death, blindness, testicular cancer (maybe), eating of flesh, an obsession with "secret parts",

God certainly was not above meting out his harsh punishment, not on non-believers but rather on infidels from tribes and peoples opposed to his chosen one.

No Mercy

Deuteronomy 7:2
2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:

Deutenomomy 20:13-14,16
13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it.
14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies.
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

Judges 18:27
27 Then they took what Micah had made, and his priest, and went on to Laish, against a peaceful and unsuspecting people. They attacked them with the sword and burned down their city.

Slavery

Joel 3:8
8 And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the LORD hath spoken (it).

Morality?

Numbers 31:17
17. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
This is exactly what it sounds like - kill everyone except the virgin girls ,

Numbers 31:31-40
Note that amongst the plunder are 32,000 virgins. read line 40 to figure out that they sacrificed 32 of these to the LORD.

Judges 21:11-12
11 "This is what you are to do," they said. "Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin."
12 They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan.

Judges 21:14-23
The 400 virgins captured above prove to be insufficient, so the Benjaminites hide in the vineyards and kidnap "the daughters of Shiloh" as they come out to dance and celebrate.

uhuh. despoiling of women in recent wars? It's certainly not new. Heck, if the chosen people of the Lord can do it, why not everyone else?

Just plain despicable

Judges 19:22-29
A group of sexually depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine (or wife): "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The man's concubine is ravished and dies. The man then cuts her body into twelve pieces and sends one piece to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Martian:

Oh, the irony!
His user name is actually LOGIC1!!!

Killing with a sword or spear was the fastest way to kill in ancient times. The only way God ever ordered jews to kill was with the sword or spear so (without comparing this to modern times) how would you call that brutal?

mazaje:


What annoys me the most is when I see FOOLS like this logic1(I wonder why he uses that name) . . .

tpia@:

the thread is just satire meant to foster our beliefs.

seyibrown:

[b]Under the Old Covenant, Man did not have the power or the authority to wage spiritual warfare against spiritual enemies that manifested in fellow humans but under the New Covenant, Man has the authority and power to wage spiritual warfare against these spiritual enemies. Evil had to be eradicated by the only means available at the time in the OT. In this dispensation, we do not need to kill people to stop the evil power working in them; spiritual warfare takes care of it!

Example: Some of the people destroyed in the OT ripped pregnant women open to sacrifice the premature baby to gods to empower them to commit sexual immorality and let evil happen. Today, women (and men) commit abortion to allow them to continue in sexual immorality (and for convenience). We don't kill them for sinning against God, we only preach the word of God (power and authority) to get them to turn from evil, and thereby putting an end to that evil that would ordinarily continue to happen(and graduate into more evil and the pollution of others) through them.

The sparing of those who were supposed to have been killed to stop the spread of evil caused a lot of trouble for Israel; the spared ones they took as slaves caused them to worship other Gods and turned their hearts to committing the abominations they had agreed covenanted themselves to God not to commit!

The original command 'THOU SHALT NOT KILL' has never ceased to be in operation, and those who 'killed' paid for it one way or another, whether it was reported/recorded or not.

Physical swords have been sheathed; spiritual swords (preaching the word of God that leads to repentance, turning from evil, and salvation of souls)are in use![/b]

Romeo4real:

Quite right. Just because your notion of what God "is" or "should be" does not fit that which is in the Bible cannot constitute a valid argument on whether Yahweh is the one true God.

It's like saying i have a Father, whom i see as a very loving, kind, selfless man. But i also learnt that he is War General, in fact, a "war monger", given to order the stoning of people for trivial offences. He has committed unfathomable "Atrocities", and guilty of "Genocide". He has given orders to soldiers to kill the enemy, and their women & children, and their livestock. He has made people lie, so he can destroy them.
Subsequently, because of all this, he cannot be my "real" Father, because the the notions i ascribe to him do not fit the reality of what he is. There MUST be a mistake somewhere. I must have been mislead.

Whilst we can debate till eternity the morality of God's actions, This argument, in no way, has any bearing on whether he is God or not.

Uyi Iredia:

@ post >>> exactly my thinking

@ bolded part >>> tell them ooo !!!

Pastor AIO:

more old covenant/new covenant gymnastics.

Please do you have any references for what you've said here about people that were murdered in the bible. Where did they rip out unborn babies so they could commit sexual immorality? Any references whether historical, legendary, mythological . . . etc, any references at all will do.

seyibrown:

Ever tried asking your 'god' to explain the gymnastics to you, Pastor?

Start reading your Bible from Genesis; you might just stumble across some info!

nuclearboy:

I think the issue here remains that of right.

Some here are respected individuals and to them comes this question - if the God we are discussing here owns all things, would you then agree He has right to do what He wishes concerning/about them whenever He decides? If your answer is yes, why the argument? If No, why do you have right to make decisions on a daily basis and yet do not believe yourselves demented?

Either way above, you have a problem. The only way your argument can hold water is convincing us He is NOT God and thus has no right. I await your arguments that will PROVE this assertion.

PS: Emotions do not prove anything. Show us facts

nuclearboy:

you chose the username Pastor-AIO. Your right & your decision even though many wonder at the tag due to your affiliations. Another chap decided to call himself Baboonyansh. Odd choices to many forum members but within your rights.

Yet you believe you have right to question not my own choice of tag but that of a supposed creator? What's your justification or basis? Where's your right?

I know many are obtuse here (some are cardboard) but you're not one of those. Be sincere for once. Do we decide for others? Would you dare visit me and tell me INSIDE my domain that my biz/personal choices are silly without risking my staff beating the AIO out of you? Or is it because we all know a true God supersedes such displays of anger and power that both normally reasoning and not-so-smart person individuals ascribe to self this right to criticism?

Unfortunate, crass, childish and ill-informed

Pastor AIO:

I didn't ask explanation of gymnastics. I asked for references. Could you please supply us some references for what you said above. Where were babies been ripped out in order to allow sexual immorality?

Pastor, It is not my fault that you do not know what the Bible says and that you cannot carry out further research based on facts avilable from the Bible. Why should I throw what I found out into your laps when you are too lazy to do the research and have already made up your mind what you want to believe?

How difficult is it to type 'ripped pregnant women open' on google, press the search button; search the Bible (online, its free these days) to find out what gods those who were (you are angry at their being) destroyed served, and then do an historical search (outside the Bible) on the origins of those gods and the rituals related to their worship.

It is solely your fault that you choose to be solely tuned to the temporal realm (which do not even fully explore). GO GET A GODLY SPIRITUAL LIFE, PASITOR OLODO RABATA ! GO BACK TO GENESIS!

nuclearboy:

I think the issue here remains that of right.

Some here are respected individuals and to them comes this question - if the God we are discussing here owns all things, would you then agree He has right to do what He wishes concerning/about them whenever He decides? If your answer is yes, why the argument? If No, why do you have right to make decisions on a daily basis and yet do not believe yourselves demented?

Either way above, you have a problem. The only way your argument can hold water is convincing us He is NOT God and thus has no right. I await your arguments that will PROVE this assertion.

PS: Emotions do not prove anything. Show us facts

if the God we are discussing here owns all things, would you then agree He has right to do what He wishes concerning/about them whenever He decides? If your answer is yes, why the argument? If No, why do you have right to make decisions on a daily basis and yet do not believe yourselves demented?

Deep Sight:

If you were informed by a foreign civilization that the entity they believed to be GOD instructed them to invade your native Yoruba homeland and murder every man, woman and child there, would you not stop to doubt if indeed that entity was infact and indeed the GOD that is the creator of all existence?

Indeed, I can answer that very question for you: when the Islamist terrorist cites supposed injunctions from "God" to commit terrorist acts in the name of Jihad - you, Nuclearboy - you have NO doubt that this injunction is NOT from God.

Why then do you suppose that the genocidal injunctions in the Old Testament are actually from "God?"

What this shows is that your argument about "right" collapses in the face of that which YOU yourself understand to be morally objectionable, and that which YOU yourself, when considering the perceptions of other people about God, would NOT accept as injunctions that came from God.

If a Suicide bomber tells you that his actions are directed by God, you would positively deny that. You would not believe or accept that "God" endorsed such, or you would conclude that it simply was not the "true" God. This is true, once you are honest with yourself.

Why then would such injunctions appear in YOUR own scripture, and the best you proffer is simply to state that "God has the right" to do such.

Could the suicide bomber not equally state that "God" who directed him, has the "right" to destroy?

Lets be honest and straight: You DO NOT accept that God does such things - why then do you defend them once they appear in your own scripture.

The summary of what you are saying is that the violence prescribed by "God" in other religions is reprehensible, but the violence precribed by "God" in your own scriptures is acceptable, being "as of right."

Besides recall that God changeth not.

Why then do you believe that he has turned a new leaf since christ came?

Does God turn new leaves in his character and injunctions?

Is a changeable God perfect?

What makes such a God different from a politician: adopting suitable policies to suit the mood and the time?

The grave truth is this: and from this I will not resile - You are detached from the violence and this is why you approach it with cold blood.

FOR: You condemn present day religious inspired violence, because you are alive to witness its horrific nature.

If you were alive to witness the genocide effected on Israel's neighbours at the behest of their God, I am certain that you would not so cavalierly state "it is his right."

You would be repulsed: and that is the simple truth.

seyibrown:

Pastor, It is not my fault that you do not know what the Bible says and that you cannot carry out further research based on facts avilable from the Bible. Why should I throw what I found out into your laps when you are too lazy to do the research and have already made up your mind what you want to believe?

How difficult is it to type 'ripped pregnant women open' on google, press the search button; search the Bible (online, its free these days) to find out what gods those who were (you are angry at their being) destroyed served, and then do an historical search (outside the Bible) on the origins of those gods and the rituals related to their worship.

It is solely your fault that you choose to be solely tuned to the temporal realm (which do not even fully explore). GO GET A GODLY SPIRITUAL LIFE, PASITOR OLODO RABATA ! GO BACK TO GENESIS!

seyibrown:

Pastor, It is not my fault that you do not know what the Bible says and that you cannot carry out further research based on facts avilable from the Bible. Why should I throw what I found out into your laps when you are too lazy to do the research and have already made up your mind what you want to believe?

How difficult is it to type 'ripped pregnant women open' on google, press the search button; search the Bible (online, its free these days) to find out what gods those who were (you are angry at their being) destroyed served, and then do an historical search (outside the Bible) on the origins of those gods and the rituals related to their worship.

It is solely your fault that you choose to be solely tuned to the temporal realm (which do not even fully explore). GO GET A GODLY SPIRITUAL LIFE, PASITOR OLODO RABATA ! GO BACK TO GENESIS!

Gods Punishment in the Bible: Pregnant Women will be ripped open!

By
Karim
(He is a new convert to Islam, from the Netherlands)




Hosea 13:16 (New Living Translation) - The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords."


Hosea 13:16 (King James) Samaria will bear her guilt because she has rebelled against her God.
They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to pieces,  and their pregnant women ripped open.

seyibrown:



Example: Some of the people destroyed in the OT ripped pregnant women open to sacrifice the premature baby to gods to empower them to commit sexual immorality and let evil happen. Today, women (and men) commit abortion to allow them to continue in sexual immorality (and for convenience). We don't kill them for sinning against God, we only preach the word of God (power and authority) to get them to turn from evil, and thereby putting an end to that evil that would ordinarily continue to happen(and graduate into more evil and the pollution of others) through them.