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| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by AlBaqir(m): 7:38pm On Apr 10, 2018 |
AbdelKabir:  Obviously you are talking to your folks. Give me real evidence: Hadith link, scan page of the real book.You copy nonsense you never even verified. Unfortunately, you did not even COPIED WELL. Mumuni, how can the chain starts with Ibn Umar? |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Nobody: 8:09pm On Apr 10, 2018 |
AlBaqir: http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/display_hbook.php?bk_no=1524&pid=894503&hid=295 You copy nonsense you never even verified. Unfortunately, you did not even COPIED WELL. Mumuni, how can the chain starts with Ibn Umar? Please show us where I copied it from or keep mute! And by the way I deliberately started the chain in a descending order instead of the normal ascending order for people to comprehend properly in the other thread I wrote it.... |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by AlBaqir(m): 9:03pm On Apr 10, 2018 |
AbdelKabir: First, there were nothing pertaining to most of the narrators unless you can show us their respective gradings. Second, tawbah al-'ambariy is graded here: http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/RawyDetails.php?RawyID=2005 Unfortunately, his grading is worse (pix attached). He made LOTS of mistakes in hadith. That alone DAEEF the hadith AbdelKabir: Why would you tamper with a chain?! Fraud
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| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Nobody: 9:14pm On Apr 10, 2018 |
AlBaqir: Tawbah as I mentioned in the other thread he was said to be munkar hadeeth by only one person others called him thiqa as it is evident from the picture you yourself brought, except if you are blind.....ibn hajar has said that al-azdiy made a mistake in making such a remark. Unfortunately, his grading is worse (pix attached). He made LOTS of mistakes in hadith. That alone DAEEF the hadith Pls from the picture you brought show us where it is said that "he made lots of mistakes in hadeeth" Why would you tamper with a chain?! Fraud How did I tamper? By changing names or what? Why do you have such a low personality, no honor whatsoever........ I only wrote it in ascending order not the normal descending order... |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by AlBaqir(m): 9:21pm On Apr 10, 2018 |
AbdelKabir: What is the mistake of al-Azdiy? Ibn Hajar failed to provide. To rate someone MUNKAR AL-HADITH is a serious matter faah. Unless you can prove why Azdi made mistake. And please I need grades of all other narrators AbdelKabir: Sorry that's a mistake. I dey watch Liverpool match AbdelKabir: # Why descending order?. |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by AlBaqir(m): 9:34pm On Apr 10, 2018 |
AlBaqir: # Never mind o AbdelKabir all your hadith scholars rated the guy well. Majority carry the vote. Al-Azdi might be mistaken indeed. However, give us others (their grading). |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Nobody: 9:53pm On Apr 10, 2018 |
AlBaqir: Lie lie lie, you only wanted to make him look bad, but after I burst your lie, you bring childish excuse.. # Why descending order?. If you have eyes, I already mentioned why I did so in another thread and just copied it like that here...moreover that's no longer important is it? I already gave u a link for it... |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by AlBaqir(m): 9:57pm On Apr 10, 2018 |
AbdelKabir: If I wanted to lie or wouldn't accept my fault, I wouldn't have posted the pix. Do you want me to rigidly abide by his MUNKAR belt ?# Don't run away o. Give us grading of others. So far I see NOTHING about them. They might all be liars |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Nobody: 10:02pm On Apr 10, 2018 |
AlBaqir: Muhammad ibn ya'qub http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/RawyDetails.php?RawyID=31063 Abbas ibn.walid http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/RawyDetails.php?RawyID=4166 His father http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/RawyDetails.php?RawyID=1806 Abdullaahi ibn shawdhab http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/RawyDetails.php?RawyID=4863 Abdullaahi ibn al-qaasim http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/RawyDetails.php?RawyID=4714 Tawbah you already know tawbah Saalim ibn Abdullaahi http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/RawyDetails.php?RawyID=3194 Abdullaahi ibn umar A Sahabi. |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by AlBaqir(m): 10:12pm On Apr 10, 2018 |
AbdelKabir: Though nothing is said about some, it however seems the hadith is authentic. # But the big question is: Iraq is not East from Masjid Nabi?! |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Nobody: 10:39pm On Apr 10, 2018 |
AlBaqir: OK now you are shifting from argument or authenticity to the question you have there......well, since the hadeeth is authentic, your case is dismissed! |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Empiree: 12:17am On Apr 11, 2018 |
He made good point?.
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| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by AlBaqir(m): 3:16am On Apr 11, 2018 |
AbdelKabir: # Hadith is judged based not only on its sanad but its matn. The hadith is only proved sanad-wise I was the one that challenged its sanad. Besides, the article of Raintaker and Empiree point of argument has always being on the matn, not sanad. |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Empiree: 4:01am On Apr 11, 2018 |
AlBaqir:Yes, I still suspect Iraq mentioned int he second hadith. So suspicious. The hadith is like "wuruwuru" to answer. You know like arriving at a result without explaining how you got there. The evidences provided that so and so were killed in Iraq apply likewise to Arabia. Here i found another hadith suggesting Iraq and Najd are completely two separate places. حدثنا محمد بن عبد الله بن عمار الموصلي قال حدثنا أبو هاشم محمد بن علي عن المعافى عن أفلح بن حميد عن القاسم عن عائشة قالت وقَّت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لأهل المدينة ذا الحُليفة ولأهل الشام ومصر الجحفة ولأهل العراق ذات عرق ولأهل نجد قرناً ولأهل اليمن يلملم From Aishah, Prophet PBUH said: The Hajj Miqat (the place) for Madinah is in Dzul Hulaifah, Sham and Egypt in Juhfah, Iraq in Zati Irq, and Najd in Qorn, and Yaman in Yalamlam.” (Shahih Sunan Nasa’i no 2656) Nabi(saw) mentioned about the HORN of Satan several times in Hadeeth about Najd. And the Hajj Miqat (place) for the people of Najd is in Qorn. That means HORN in Arabic. In the Hadith above, Najd and Iraq are 2 different place with 2 different Miqat. So interpreting Najd is Iraq is not true at all. |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Empiree: 4:25am On Apr 11, 2018 |
This is interesting debate here between Andrew Sanders and Mohammad Habib http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/forum/aqeedah-refutation-of-deviant-sects/13401-debate-on-hadith-of-najd |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Nobody: 4:51am On Apr 11, 2018 |
AlBaqir: You are not a scholar of hadeeth, you are just ignoramus so your critism holds no weight especially when the hadeeth that mentioned najd and the one that mentioned iraaq can be reconciled perfectly without stress, mention of najd makes the usage unrestricted, but mention of iraaq(which is also a najd) defines it for us perfectly...... Now let's ask a qualified Muhaddith if there is anything wrong with the hadeeth, Shaykh Muhammad Nasrud deen Al-Albaani, he says in silsilatus saheehah hadeeth number 2246: "SAHEEH, it was related with a statement having "our iraaq" in place of "our najd" and the meaning is one" OK a muhaddith has explained telling us the hadeeth is sahih, so I will take his word instead of ignoramuses.... |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Nobody: 4:57am On Apr 11, 2018 |
Empiree: Yea its not true in your wishful thinking..... If you can't prove that hadeeth is a fraud, then your wishful thinking is nonsense.... |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Empiree: 5:11am On Apr 11, 2018 |
AbdelKabir:This is bogus. I already said before that they inserted "Iraq" in the second narration to make it sound definitive. There is problem with the second hadith's matn but you just dont see it. I don't expect Sheikh Albani(ra) to argue otherwise. You'd done your own research would have been better for you. "....but let me emphasize this to all. Self research is very important. Eye verification cannot be brushed aside. The Prophet sal allahu alayhi wasallam said in so many words that is is enough for one to be considered a liar if he repeats everything he hears. Cut and paste debaters have to rethink and take research more seriously." If Najd was unrestricted, did companions asked "our Najd or our Iraq" at the same time?. I am sure the incident took place once. They didnt ask the prophet the second time "iraqina". It is said that linguistically, najds are elevated areas or highlands. So when they asked "our najd", why didnt nabi(saw) replied 'which najd"?. For the fact that he didnt ask Allah to bless that najd indicate that Najd is a specific location East of Medina till today not linguistic meaning as they want us to believe. You need to do yourself a favor and read this debate http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/forum/aqeedah-refutation-of-deviant-sects/13401-debate-on-hadith-of-najd |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Nobody: 5:30am On Apr 11, 2018 |
Empiree: How funny! When shaykh Albaani criticised bukhari, you didn't argue with him, because it suit your desires, now he authenticates this one you want to make it seem like he followed his desires.... I need not disturb myself, you've never agreed to a clear truth before so I don't expect you to agree with this........like how funny you think, if I have a sickness and you tell me this is the medicine, if a doctor tells me otherwise, I will stick with the doctor because you don't know better than the doctor in his field........fault the hadeeth with tangible evidences not " I suspect " As for the last part of your post, you should as well as if the prophet was asked more than once on salatul ibrahimiyyah that we have different versions! |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Empiree: 5:54am On Apr 11, 2018 |
AbdelKabir:see how you reason, buddy. If someone made mistake one time means he's always wrong? If someone is right one time means he's always right? Is that your logic? . I deal with cases as they are. I don't always agree and I don't always disagree. I need not disturb myself, you've never agreed to a clear truth before so I don't expect you to agree with this........like how funny you think, if I have a sickness and you tell me this is the medicine, if a doctor tells me otherwise, I will stick with the doctor because you don't know better than the doctor in his field........fault the hadeeth with tangible evidences not " I suspect "I already asked you if the two narrations were made simultaneously?. When they asked nabi(saw), "our najd", did they also ask at that moment "our iraq" these are two different places. As for the last part of your post, you should as well as if the prophet was asked more than once on salatul ibrahimiyyah that we have different versions! the difference here is that in solati Ibrahimiya, where Ibrahim is mentioned doesn't change to Muhammad vis a vis. Reverse was never the case. That's if it had been "oh Allah send your blessings on Ibrahim as you sent on Muhammad" we would have questioned matn.  |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Nobody: 6:29am On Apr 11, 2018 |
Empiree: Actually he was correct to you the first time because he said what you wanted and he is wrong to you now since he said what you don't want.... I already asked you if the two narrations were made simultaneously?. When they asked nabi(saw), "our najd", did they also ask at that moment "our iraq" these are two different places. There is another hadeeth that mentioned it happened for three days when an iraaqi kept asking "and our Iraaq", but the ending of the hadeeth has been faulted but the remaining are OK(as said by shaykh Albaani) due to the fact that there are authentic hadeeth that proves the first part. Mind you it was same shaykh Albaani that said the last part of the hadeeth I'm talking about is weak. Link to the hadeeth: http://library.islamweb.net/hadith/display_hbook.php?bk_no=717&pid=595569&hid=22 If you like use google translate again and translate rubbish
No, your argument is, why is there that slight change, then I tell there are slight changes in salaatul ibrahimiyyah as well, in one there is no mention of " his wives, his generations" and another mentions it, I can use your useless argument to fault that hadeeth that why are th wives and generations not mentioned in the other, there is tampering somewhere..... No.buddy that's not how you criticize matn, you are just a jaahil.murakkab that is using terms you don't even know it's meaning. 1 Like |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by MuhammedAli(m): 4:01am On Sep 12, 2019 |
Salam Alaykum. I am so disapointed in all of you brothers and sisters.  You have been debating subject of Najd without me. People I am MuhammedAli the author of article quoted and referrenced by << RainTaker >>. Its shame that my article was refferenced but no one actually notified me of the discussion taking place here.The original article was titled: "Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar – Killing Of Flies, Group Of Satan, And Prophet Musa Killing Accidently." And it can be read here: https://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/24911-contextualising-the-hadith-of-abdullah-ibn-umar-%E2%80%93-killing-of-flies-group-of-satan-and-prophet-musa-killing-accidently/ Unfortunately all of you have been discussing but I DON'T THINK ANYONE BATHERED TO READ WHAT I WROTE ... force of arguing is strong with you, all. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND, WAHHABIS AND NON-WAHHABIS FIRST READ WHAT I WROTE. Most of your argument has been if Khawarij were to emerge from Iraq or not? And if Ahadith which say Khawarij emerged from Iraq are authentic or not? I will get to answering these questions bit later but had YOU ALL ACTUALLY READ WHAT I WROTE THEN YOU WOULDNT HAVE ARGUED ON THESE because I clearly and explicitly stated KHAWARIJ EMERGED FROM IRAQ AND [CENTRAL ARABIAN REGION OF] NAJD. The mostly and hotly debated topic point of contention actually is: i) Did Prophet mean Iraq by saying Najd? ii) Is Najd linguistic usage in Hadith of horn of Satan or a proper name? iii) Is Iraq East of Madinah, or not? iv) Does the linguistic meaning of Najd apply fit Iraq or not? These questions are important and correct answer to these will resolve the dispute. Also following questions also help: i) Was Iraq known as Najd during the life time of Prophet? ii) Is there a region/village/city called Najd in Iraq? iii) When Prophet pointed toward the house of Aisha to indicate direction from which group/horn of Satan would appear; did he poitn toward Iraq, or toward modern Saudi capital of Riyadh? iv) Hadith says Prophet [in order to point direction Khawarij/group aka horn of Satan would emerge] pointed toward the direction of sunrise ... does the sun rise from direction of Iraq or not? v) Leaders of Khawarij which appeared in Iraq where they Iraqis or did they live in Arabia and were part of Banu Tamim? I am not going to write/refute opposing views here because I have done it masterfully in roughly 35 articles in here: https://www.islamimehfil.com/forum/94-articles-and-books/. All you have to do is browse back and find all the relevent material. A Wahhabi with the name of Abdullah wrote following article in effort to prove by Najd Hadith means Iraq: http://www.systemoflife.com/reply-to-najd-hadith/#axzz4xTopNOZl Note: All the content which Wahhabis quoted in this thread at nairaland was quoted by Wahhabi author in article published at SystemOfLife ... So everything discussed here and argued by Wahhabis has been responded to in following three articles ... these three were written in response to article of SYSTEMOFLIFE: 1: https://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/26111-response-to-abdullah-the-khariji-of-a%E2%80%99du-allah-rectifying-distortions-on-hadith-of-najd-and-east/ 2: https://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/26432-response-to-brother-abdullah-refuting-distortions-and-accurately-establishing-region-of-najd-in-light-of-ahadith/ 3: https://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/26433-response-to-brother-abdullah-about-ahadith-of-iraq-and-najd-and-what-it-is-established-from-them/ At the end, I just want people to know, I am former/ex-Wahhabi, why i left Wahhabism and Deobandism, has been explained here: https://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/24630-my-story-of-how-i-became-orthodox-muslim-from-guidance-to-misguidance-to-guidance/ Note in section of this account: Eighteen - Becoming Disillusioned With Wahhabism – Group Of Satan. I linked articles and my research on Hadith of Najd. Wama alayna ilal balaghul mubeen. Muhammed Ali Razavi. |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Empiree: 5:49am On Sep 12, 2019 |
^^ You just registered today. I dont think i have seen you before. What your previous moniker? |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by MuhammedAli(m): 11:32pm On Sep 12, 2019 |
Empiree: Yes, I am new here. I haven't been on this forum before. I am (i.e. Muhammed Ali Razav) authored the article which RainTaker quoted to start this thread/discussion. I was just droping by to help you all resolve the conflict regarding Najd.  I have about 35 articles on topic of Najd ... and all are either proving Najd is in Saudi Arabia and Najd is region surrounding Saudi capital Riyadh. In my previous post I have given some links ... please please go and check them. And rest assured any/every Wahhabi argument to distort the reality of Najd has been refuted with aid of authentic Hadith. The onus is for you to read/study and spread the message.1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by MuhammedAli(m): 11:42pm On Sep 12, 2019 |
Empiree: In the discussion on <AhlalHdeeth.com> guy with login name of <AbdulWahaab> was a Salafi who had debated me on this topic just weeks before the discussion on topic of Najd was discussed on <AhlalHdeeth.com>. He changed his position and accepted that traditional Wahhabi understanding of Hadith of Najd is wrong. He is arguing with <rizwan> with my support. Read the discusion between <AbdulWahaab> and <rizwan> from post 38 till end of discussion: http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/forum/aqeedah-refutation-of-deviant-sects/13401-debate-on-hadith-of-najd/page3 1 Like |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by najib632(m): 10:13am On Sep 13, 2019 |
Raintaker:this is not true, prove it if you insist. |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by MuhammedAli(m): 6:37am On Sep 14, 2019 |
najib632: Lets begin with setting the dodgy record straight and make up for lack of knowledge of some members. IRAQ existed, with name of IRAQ, during the time of Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was'sallam). There are numerous Ahadith which mention IRAQ by name of IRAQ. So please stop arguing over this issue. ------------------------------------------------------------------- The next important question that needs answering is: Where is Najd - in Iraq, in Arabia? Answer to this question is not hard if you take all the Ahadith into account but using individual Hadith and arguing over it makes subject difficult to resolve. So just lets do that lets take into account all available Hadith which will help to precisely PIN POINT direction and location of Najd. NOTE YOU MUST LOOK AT ALL EVIDENCE AS WHOLE. You might disagree with a single evidence, but if you will look at entire evidence, then by Allah you will not be able to disagree. - Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was'sallam) mentioned name Najd from where group/horn of Satan would appear: “Narrated Ibn 'Umar: (The Prophet) said, "O Allah! Bless our Sham and our Yemen." People said: "Our Najd as well." The Prophet again said: "O Allah! Bless our Sham and Yemen." They said again: "Our Najd as well." On that the Prophet said: "There will appear earthquakes and afflictions, and from there will come out the side of the group of Satan." [Ref: Bukhari, B17, H147] To see location of historical Najd, please look at the maps on these articles https://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/26112-deflating-wahhabism-with-old-new-maps-indicating-location-of-najd-in-arabian-peninsula/#comment-109042 - Ahadith also record direction of EAST and another records direction of sunrise from which the group/horn of Satan would appear: “Verily, afflictions (will start) from here," pointing towards the east, "whence the side of the group of Satan comes out." [Ref: Bukhari, B56, H714] "Afflictions are there! Afflictions are there, from the side where group of Satan will come out." Or said: "... the group [from direction] of sun (rise) ..." [Ref: Bukhari, B88, H212] And following article precisely tells you where the sunrise in Arabia takes places: https://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/22386-emergence-of-group-of-satan-from-direction-of-sunrise/#comment-108990 - Sunrises between the two groups of Satan, and we already know, the two groups of Satan are tribes of Rabia and Mudhar: “Ibn Umar reported Allah's Messenger as saying: Do not intend to observe prayer at the time of the rising of the sun nor at its setting for it rises between the groups of Satan.” [Ref: Muslim, B4, H1807] "True belief is Yemenite yonder but sternness and mercilessness are the qualities of those who are busy with their camels and pay no attention to the Religion. [It is a place] where the two sides of the group of Satan will appear. Such are tribe of Rabia and Mudar." [Ref: Bukhari, Bo54, H521] And guess where these two groups of Satan are located at? You're smart! In Arabia, in Eastern Province and region of Najd: [url]https://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/22332-group-of-satan-emerging-from-lands-of-banu-rabia-and-bani-mudhar/ [/url] There was tiny confusion which was resolved in the following article: https://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/22338-clearing-the-confusion-regarding-location-of-banu-mudhar/#comment-96155 - Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was'sallam) pointed toward the direction of house of Aysha (radiallah ta'ala anha) to point the direction from which group of Satan would emerge: “Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon, and pointing to 'Aisha's house, he said thrice, "Affliction (will appear from) here," and, "from the side, where Satan's head will come out." [Ref: Bukhari, B53, H336] And he pointed toward Saudi capital Riyadh with pin point accuracy. And to see evidence of this ... please see this article ... [url]https://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/22362-emergence-of-satan%E2%80%99s-group-from-direction-of-hadhrat-aysha%E2%80%99s-house/[/url] All this evidence, and maps, clearly and emphaticly come togather to prove Najd is in Arabia and Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was'sallam) precisely pointed, precisely pointed i repeat toward Dirriyah, Uyaynah, two plces of origin of Wahhabism. Now if you still believe Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was'sallam) Najd is Iraq, or in Iraq then my dear Wahhabi friend I have no response to you. I have no answer to your lack of education. You have beaten me and my tiny learning. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was'sallam) foretold there will be two [main] groups/horn of Satan from Banu Rabia and Banu Mudhar: “And harshness and callousness of the hearts is found amongst the rude owners of the camels, who drive them behind their tails (to the direction), where emerge the two groups of Satan, they are [from] the tribes of Rabi'a and Mudar.” [Ref: Muslim, B1, H83] Banu Mudhar split into Banu Tamim. The first one was group of Khawarij lead by Abdullah aka Dhil Khawaisirah, at-Tamimi, aka Hurkus Ibn Zuhayr. The vast majority of man power of first group was from Banu Tamim and Banu Tamim was and is even up to this day pre-dominantly located in region of Saudi capital Riyadh. This area is indeed historical region of Najd. The first Khawarij marched to Syria with army of Ali from Najd/Riyadh and after incident of arbitration returned to Iraq and fought in rebellious war against Ali (radiallah ta'ala anhu). And following Ahadith are proof that first group of Khawarij emerged as a distinct group in IRAQ: “Narrated Yusair bin Amr: I asked Sahl bin Hunaif, "Did you hear the Prophet saying anything about Al-Khawarij?" He said, "I heard him saying while pointing his hand towards Iraq. "There will appear in it some people who will recite the Qur'an but it will not go beyond their throats, and they will go out from (leave) Islam as an arrow darts through the game's body.' " [Ref: Bukhari, B84, H68] The second main group also emerged from Najd and Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was'sallam) foretold of this here: “Narrated Ibn 'Umar: (The Prophet) said, "O Allah! Bless our Sham and our Yemen." People said: "Our Najd as well." The Prophet again said: "O Allah! Bless our Sham and Yemen." They said again: "Our Najd as well." On that the Prophet said: "There will appear earthquakes and afflictions, and from there will come out the side of the group of Satan." [Ref: Bukhari, B17, H147] So in conclusion Ahadith which state Khawarij will emerge from Iraq and Najd both are authentic. And both Ahadith indicate a region from which each of two groups of Khawarij will emerge. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Who was the second group which appeared from Najd? Let me narrow down the choice to only one: - Sign of Khawarij is rebellion: i) Shaykh al-Najd and his Wahhabis rebelled against authority/rule of Khilafat. ii) Shaykh al-Najd and his Wahhabis rebelled against Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jammah of Muslims. - Sign of Khawarij is that they declare Muslims Kafir/Mushrik: Shaykh al-Najd and his Wahhabis accused Muslims of committing MAJOR SHIRK due to their distorted understanding of Tawheed/Shirk. - Sign of Khawarij is that they declare Muslims are Kafir/Mushrik due to major sins: Shaykh al-Najd and his Wahhabis did and continue to declare Muslims Kafir/Mushrik for HARAM ACTIONS - MAJOR SIN OF PROSTRATION TO GRAVES OF SALIHEEN. - Sign of Khawarij is that they declare Muslims are Kafir/Mushrik for absolutely no justified reason whatsoever - for things which are not even sin/Kufr/Shirk in Shari'ah. Like Khawarij declared Ali (radiallah ta'ala anhu) Mushrik/Kafir for choosing Abu Musa al-Ashari (radiallah ta'ala anhu) as a JUDGE. They quoted verse, judgment is only for Allah, and said Ali (radiallah ta'ala anhu) and his followers have committed Shirk because accepted creation as Judge. On this ground we find: Shaykh al-Najd and his rabid Wahhabis have in principle consider all those who practice Istighathah and believe in its legitimacy as Mushrikeen/Kafireen. And this is a baseless charge and false accusation just like many other false pretexts of Shirk. - Khawarij kill Muslims with imputiny: Shaykh al-Najd and his Wahhabis committed massacre after massacre of those who said la-ilaha il-Allah, took the wives, mothers, sisters, daughters of Muslims as slaves, and fornicated/raped them, believing they are women of Mushrikeen/Kafireen. And this is something expressedly prohibited by Prophet: “Anas bin Malik narrates from the Prophet who said: Three things are the roots of faith: (i) To refrain from (killing) a person who says “there is no Deity worthy of worship except Allah” (ii) Not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits. (iii) and also not to declare him out of Islam due to any of his deed. Jihad continues from the day I was sent as Prophet to ...” [Ref: Abu Dawud, B14, H2170] Wahhabis and their Shaykh al-Najd violated all three, they voilated their root of Iman. - Sign of Khawarij is that they will excessively shave their heads, aka skin-head: “Sahl bin Hunaif reported Allah's Apostle as saying: There would arise from the east a people with shaven heads.” [Ref: Muslim, B5, H2338] Shaykh al-Najd and his Wahhabis originally were all-skin-heads. And books of scholars recording their description in their own time recorded this fact but after scholars applied the relevent Ahadith upon the Wahhabis they gradually left this practice because it made it easy to be identified. - Sign of Khawarij that were to appear from Najd was that they would kill Muslims, and make friends with Mushrikeen: Saudi Arabia, and Shaykh al-Najd and his Wahhabis, were fully armed and supported by British colonies in Yemen, Oman, Iraq. And the friendship between Christian polytheists was finally sealed as a treaty by Ibn Saud with the British and then with the Americans. - Sign of Khawarij is that they apply Quranic verses revealed for polytheists and their idol-gods upon believers: “Ibn Umar considered the Khawarij and the heretics as the worst beings in creation, and he said: They went to verses which were revealed about the disbelievers and applied them to the Believers.” [Bukhari; Chapter Khawarjites. Ibn Hajr al Asqalani said in Fath ul Bari: That its sanad is sahih.] Shaykh al-Najd, his Wahhabis of past, present, all are guilty of this. Shaykh al-Najd in his books, just take Kitab al-Tawheed as an example, quoted all verses revealed for Mushrikeen/Kafireen to lay the foundation of his accusation that Muslims are in fact guilty of Shirk. Read it yourself. This briefly helps to identify that Wahhabis and all of its offshoots have Khariji traits. ------------------------------------------------------------------- In conclusion I would say, Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab, aka Shaykh al-Najd, and his Wahhabis were the group/horn of Satan that were to appear from Najd. And even in his own time scholars and even his own brother told him that you're the horn/group of Satan that was prophecised to appear from Najd. Everything about Khawarij fits Shaykh al-Najd and his Wahhabi band. They are not the only Khawarij just a major off-shoot or original Kharijism. Ofcourse Wahhabism isn't same as original Kharijism. It has radical differences with Khariji sects but the ambilical cord which attaches Wahhabism to Kharijism and the one I pointed to in these previous sections establishes is one and the same for all sects of Kharijism. I will publish this as a article on IslamiMehfil forum ... spruced-up version ... in few days ... until then you can enjoy this. Wama alayna ilal balaghul mubeen. Muhammed Ali Razavi. 1 Like |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by najib632(m): 2:42pm On Oct 08, 2019 |
MuhammedAli:So what aqeeda are you on if Salafiyyah is wrong sheikh. |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by MuhammedAli(m): 10:19am On Nov 02, 2019 |
najib632: Salam alaykum, I am Maturidi in Creed, Hanafi in Fiqh, Qadri in Sufism. I am on creed of giants and Jamhoor (majority) of Ummah. And to nominate and to select a representative of Jamhoor and these giants, I am on creed of Sayyidi wa Sanadi, Mujtahid and Mujadid, Imam Ahmad Raza Khan al-Qadri (rahimullah), |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by najib632(m): 11:02am On Nov 02, 2019 |
MuhammedAli:Wa alaikum salam warahmatullah, masha Allah i don't know most of the teachings of sheikh al-qari but I don't see anything wrong with following the Salafiyyah ya sheikh, we are also on the aqeeda of the majority. Sheikh Nasirudeen al-baani is considered with all of what you label Sheikh al-qari. Why did you leave wahabiyyah or salafiyyah. |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by MuhammedAli(m): 11:43pm On Nov 04, 2019 |
najib632: Salam alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakaat, Imam Ahmad Raza Khan al-Qadri (rahimullah) is popularly reffered as Ala Hadhrat, or Ala Hazrat, information regarding him is available on internet. Salafiyyah is not Sunni Islam but a Khariji heresy and Salafis do not follow creed of majority of Muslims. Salafism to this day remains a minority group even in modern Saudi Arabia and for you to claim you adhere to creed of Jamhoor/Jammah of Muslims is injustice. I suggest you visit a Muslim country of your choice, and a town, city of your choice and look for Salafis in that city. Do that with few Muslim countries and few cities and then conclude if Salafism is creed/belief of majority of Muslims. I assume you live in Europe/America/Australia ... all you need to do is go to street and find a Muslim and ask him are Wahhabis/Salafis majority in your native country/city and do that with dozen or two to get answer to your misconception about Salafiyyah being belief of majority. Salafiyyah and its various branches are likely 8% to 15% of Muslim population, 5% to 10% is of Shia, and over whelming majority of 75% is orthodox Sunni Islam. Salafiyyah/Wahhabiyyah is a fringe ghulat sect and I have already detailed how and why Salafism is Kharijism. One reason for Salafism/Wahhabism being Kharijism is that it is sect originated in Najd and fits description of horn of Satan which was to appear from Najd. I am sorry to say Shaykh Nasir al-Din al-Bani was Mujadid and Mujtahid of Kharijism and supporter of Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab. Instead of being a Mujtahid/Mujadid of religion of Islam; Shaykh al-Bani like Shaykh Ibn Baaz, Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen, Shaykh Salih al-Fawzan are revivers of Wahhabi version of Kharijism. Please don't be offended I am just expressing point of view which has become evident to me via study of Quran and Sunnah. Why did I leave Salafiyyah? This is a very long story but I will give you short account and then give you link of a long account. I have written why I left Salafiyyah others asked me this question too so I compiled a account for them. In short, Wahhabism/Salafism main claim was entire Arabia before Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab had fallen into major Shirk, I am this would be your sentiment. Then Shaykh Muhmmad Ibn Abdul Wahhab came and revived Islam and Tawheed and eradicated Shirk and fought Mushriks who were pretending to be Muslims. You know the entire story I am sure. When I investigated these claims in light of Quran/Sunnah I found them to be in contradiction with Quran and Sunnah so I decided to leave Salafiyyah for religion of Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) and His Messenger (sallallahu alayhi wa aalihi was'sallam). Thats short account done. The long account is in the following link but before you begin, please start reading from following headings: - Eighteen – Becoming Disillusioned With Wahhabism – Group Of Satan. - Nineteen - Becoming Disillusioned With Wahhabism – Muslims Are Mushrik. - Twenty – Why I Left Wahhabism. ... ... ... ... ... - ThirtyTwo – Disagreement Over Definition Of Innovation. - ThirtyThree - Learning Islamic Understanding Of Innovation: https://www.islamimehfil.com/topic/24630-my-story-of-how-i-became-orthodox-muslim-from-guidance-to-misguidance-to-guidance/ These were main reasons why I left Salafiyyah but there were other lesser issues also but I did not write anything on them. I also intended to write on issues of attributes, Yadh, Wajh, etc ... but I forgot ... |
| Re: Contextualising The Hadith Of Abdullah Ibn Umar –NAJD by Babaheekmat: 9:02pm On Nov 08, 2019 |
AlBaqir: This mumu think ibn hajar is a salaf.. Laughing |
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